every week, the saturday political club helps to understand the processes taking place in ukraine and the world. vitaly portnikov, khrystyna yatskiv and invited experts based on facts give their assessment and forecast of the development of events. if you want to understand how our today will affect our tomorrow, watch the saturday political club. every saturday at espresso. vasyl winter's big broadcast. two hours of airtime, two hours of your time. two hours to learn about the war and how the world lives. two hours to keep up with economic and sports news. two o'clock in the company of favorite presenters, presenters who have become like relatives to many, as well as distinguished guests of the studio. events of the day in two hours. big ether. vasyl's winter is a project for smart

and caring people in the evenings with espresso. what to do when there is a liver? alohol, but what for bile? alohol, it protects the liver and gallbladder. alo hool with care and respect for the liver and gallbladder. the premium sponsor of the national team represents. united by football, stronger together. i welcome our viewers to the studio of the espresso tv channel. today, i, artem logutenko, am with you, and we will talk about, probably the most high-profile court case in ukraine over the past year, it is the case against roman chervinskyi, a colonel of the security service of ukraine.

before talking about her, i suggest our viewers to watch a short article about who roman chervinsky actually is. roman chervinskyi, a ukrainian intelligence officer and sbu colonel, hails from khmelnytskyi. he was a participant in the loudest special operations in the occupied territory of the donetsk region. in particular, the intelligence officer contributed to the elimination of the commanders of illegal armed formations of the dpr arsen pavlov with the call sign motorola and mykhailo thick with a call sign. by him chervinsky confirmed his participation in the operation to transfer to kyiv the militant volodymyr tsemakh, who could be involved in the boeing mh-17 crash in july 2014. in the summer of 2020, the intelligence officer led the operation to detain the wagnerites. chervinsky has been under arrest since april 25, 2023. the security service of ukraine accuses its ex-employee of arbitrariness. operation

to recruit a russian pilot, which led to the shelling of the kanatove airfield in the kirovohrad region. roman chervinskyi calls the case against him a political order. this is actually such an extraordinary man roman sherovinskyi, the case against him in the court is even more strange, and there are a lot of white spots in it, which his defender, mrs. lyudmila kusa, will help us understand. i congratulate you. good day. before talking about the essence of this matter, i would like to ask you this. as a result of shelling of the kanatove airfield , the commander of the military unit was killed. 17 fighters were wounded and two fighters of the air force of ukraine were destroyed. in your opinion, someone should be responsible for it, if? yes,

why is it not roman chervinskyi? in my opinion, the russian federation should be responsible for all these actions. since february 24, 2022, all our military and civilian facilities have been subject to constant rocket attacks and bombardments. dozens, hundreds, thousands of people, ukrainians, are dying. and the russian federation holds the military of the russian federation and the military-political leadership directly responsible for this. gives these orders, in my opinion, not a single ukrainian military man, who defends this land, should not bear responsibility for those actions that he commits within the framework of the law, and which are directed to the defense of the homeland. my client acted solely within the scope of his authority and acted solely to protect the homeland. the very operation on the russian plane, its ultimate goal was the russian plane, having received which in?

ukraine would be able, firstly, to finalize its aircraft, the last of which was released back in 1991, and secondly, it would provide its immediate allies with a sample of this aircraft, this aircraft would was disassembled. to the smallest details, and we would understand how and what russia builds into it. why is this important? russia is constantly waging wars. russia has been shelling syria since 2014, they are constantly updating their aircraft and their military sphere in general and making adjustments there, and we must get access to this in order to win in the final version. mrs. lyudmila, roman chervynskyi was arrested a year ago. and the case is still not considered on its merits. explain why so, and in your opinion, how long can this matter last? in my opinion, indeed, the pre-trial investigation lasted almost a year. the case is currently transferred to the court in

kirovohrad precisely in order to be considered already on the merits, but the long pre-trial investigation, which continued after the notification of suspicion to chervinsky, it also in... that insufficient evidence was collected by the investigation before the notification of suspicion , therefore, for another year , it received this evidence, investigated, interviewed witnesses and so on, collected additional evidence. now the case is referred to the court, i see the only goal in this, unfortunately, i see that roman is planned to be taken into custody, and at the same time, as criminal proceedings have been introduced in ukraine, they will be considered for years, because the summons of witnesses. who are almost all military personnel, this is not such an easy task, these people all over ukraine are protecting the homeland, and to gather them in court, to interrogate them, it will also be quite difficult. unfortunately, our predictions of the defense side in this process are such artificial detention and prolongation of

the case. and by the way, we will talk with you about witnesses, but about detention, 19 in april, the court... as far as was known at that time, did not extend roman chervinskyi's detention, but instead of releasing him, the colonel disappeared somewhere. tell in more detail what happened then and why. i will tell you how we, the defenders, saw it from our side. preparatory court hearings in the case were held on april 12, 17, 18 and 19. an article that allows the court to cancel. to detain a person without considering, let's say , this issue, this is article 615, which provides that in case of impossibility of carrying out of the preparatory meeting, a person can be considered as one in whom the term of detention has been extended . actually, the very moment that the court hearings were already being held, that is

, there was no impossibility of holding a preparatory court hearing, it was, the case had been in court since april 2, and the court was able to hold this hearing and consider everything during these days. question, this thought itself was quite clear to us, and we believed that on april 19, since the client's preventive measure ends at night, he should be released, because it the issue was not considered in this way. activists who were present at this court session, which lasted for 3 minutes, informed us, and the court itself informed us that the session will no longer take place, a break has been announced at 6:50 p.m., we will inform you of the next date after the court. the meeting reflected in the court documents, after, after that, this is important, my colleagues, lawyers kostyantyn globo and andriy yosypov, they arrived at the court there and tried to enter the territory of the court, they could not do this, it was immediately after this

the closing of the court session, its adjournment, no, they were not allowed in, the kirovohrad court is threatened by a fence, sorry for the russianism, and there is even a gate through which they tried... to pass, it was closed, accordingly, that is, they did not even manage to enter the territory of the court pass, not that in the room. we addressed the relevant petitions to the court that we are asking to extend the preparatory session, because we arrived at it, it was already 7 p.m. there, we applied in writing through an email address with digital signatures and i, and my colleagues, but the court session was extended and did not take place, from which we concluded that roman should actually go out. but romana all this time. they received him in a car of the convoy service before the court and somewhere only at 10 p.m. they took him somewhere, where they took him was unclear, unknown to us at that time, he was actually not released, as roman himself told, when the court session took place at

6 p.m., he was asked , is it possible to continue, he said that without defenders of course not, and we did not have time to come to court after the air alarm, the air alarm sounded four times. actually , we were not informed that the session was already continuing, we were somewhere at the entrance to the court, we didn't have time to get into it, we arrived, the session was already over, roman says that after that, after that, the court said, well, that's it, we announce a break, the date will be later, after that roman was no longer brought to court, he was there all this time in a convoy in a convoy car, where he was taken, late in the evening they actually gave the court a decision that he should continue to be kept in custody, it was of course a shock for him, because no one even asked him, dear mr. romanu, and you want to ask for two more months of detention for the children, it’s good that you didn’t invite defense lawyers to the courtroom, it’s good that you didn’t teach a free lawyer , the article is serious and the court should do so, then you at least ask the person, do you mind if we now

automatically extend the term of detention for you, no, this was not done, and as reflected in the log of the court session, which we have already been officially given under the judge's signature, including, the court put on discussing the issue of whether it is possible to continue the session, roman hryhorovych said no, it is impossible, the prosecutor said it is impossible without defense attorneys, i ask that the term be automatically extended. detention, the court adjourned and went to the conference room, but today is april 26, the court has not yet left that conference room, they made a decision, but they still haven't left the conference room, they are there all are still there according to their official documents they have provided us. moreover, my colleague was in yesterday to the kirovohrad court, i'm sorry, the day before yesterday i got acquainted with the case materials, the court recorded that the court did not receive our fathers... the notice that we are asking to extend the preparatory session, because something happened with their electronic system, that's why they did not

receive them, they received they are late , that's why we believe that some kind of falsification of documents continues, because it's not normal when the court sits in a separate room for a week, at least, and at the same time issues the decision to my client in the car, hands it over, that's why it's like this situation, we started to call the police at night, to record that the person actually disappeared, that he was supposed to be released, but... he was not released, on monday morning, around 11:00 a.m., we received this court decision that he automatically remains in custody for another two months, and the court postponed the hearing to may 25, may, the person is in custody, for more than a month the hearing is postponed for unknown reasons, and since then we are now, for the first time, appealing this court decision, now an appeal hearing is scheduled for april 30 of this decision, and secondly, we declare all these illegal... actions to the relevant authorities, the state bureau of investigation and the supreme council of justice. can you explain to our

viewers how this is allowed. what is the essence of the case, what is the evidence base of the accusation? look, in my opinion, i don't see any evidence base for the prosecution at all. the only thing that was done was that the prosecution artificially created two military examinations. how was it? made in his report, the sbu employee writes: one of the servicemen reported about the presence of military personnel and equipment at the kanatove airfield, the investigator rewrites all this in his decision on the appointment of an examination, and the experts take it as a fact that yes, someone reported it, there is no evidence for this, no person, no witness, no document testifies that even if someone reported that at that moment there would be equipment at the airfield, there would be... military personnel at the airfield, all the more concentrated in one place to meet the russian plane, no, it's all a fiction, it's all

like my client's beliefs and i support them his opinion is the falsification of documents, and all the other evidence, in my opinion, points precisely in the direction of the defense, because the witnesses who were questioned during the pre-trial investigation in court are roman's direct leadership, they are his commander and the commander of the unit in which roman was performs than duties, they noted that roman did not act voluntarily, roman reported on this situation, constantly made reports on this operation, and this information was later brought to the attention of the commander-in-chief. during the trial, we will all these details to consider in detail, again to interrogate these witnesses, to establish all these circumstances. as it was stated in your story, yes, what did the sbu expect in the first place, arbitrary actions? no, there were no actions. arbitrary, moreover, roman's commander, major general, he even gave an interview that roman agreed with

him on all these actions, and all these actions were agreed on, there was no arbitrariness. regarding the sbu, it should be noted separately that in the case of the sbu, which took part in this operation and initiated it, well, it cannot be that the sbu is investigating its own operation, well , this cannot be, we said from the first meetings, it is violated here. investigation, the investigator in this case interrogated, including the former head of the sbu, and he interrogated him not in the premises of the sbu, but on the territory of the office where this person now works. this is a kind of privileged attitude towards the witness in the case, when the witness is not interrogated like all ordinary witnesses, in his own office, the investigator interrogated other leadership of the sbu, deputy heads of departments, and as a witness, as an investigator who is a subordinate of these people, can objectively to interrogate, no way, and we repeatedly drew

attention to this, that such a situation should be corrected and this case should be transferred to another body, but... unfortunately, this was not done, and we will question all the evidence precisely in connection, including with this one, because the security service of ukraine could not carry out a proper, proper pre-trial investigation of this case. do i understand correctly that one of the main witnesses in this case is valery zaluzhnyi, well, yes, you understand correctly, and we asked the investigation to question him, since we have one of of witnesses... indicates that he made a report to mr. zaluzhnyi on this situation and accordingly received permission for all these actions, but mr. valery zaluzhnyi has not been interrogated yet, no, moreover, i will say, we received a court decision that obliged the investigator is required to consider such a request of ours, that is, in fact, today we are talking about the failure of the court decision

by the investigator, the investigator has not carried out these actions, although we have repeatedly written an appeal, moreover... i will tell you, in the case that has already been provided to us in full , there is not even one the subpoena sent to the relevant witness is very strange, and ms. lyudmila, are you considering, in view of everything that has just been announced, the possibility of filing a statement or an appeal to the european court of human rights, my colleagues deal with this, we have enough in the case, well i am not alone, and my colleagues are doing this, they directly file such complaints. several complaints have already been submitted, we have not received any decisions yet, as soon as we receive them, we will definitely inform the society about them. please tell me whether they support roman cherovinskyi in this or that another way, his colleagues from the security service of ukraine?

it is rather difficult to talk about the security service of ukraine, because it is in the course of a pre-trial investigation. the witnesses, who are sbu employees, were actually under pressure, they were not allowed to come to the court session and give evidence, how it happened, there is a witness who could directly report that this operation was started in the sbu, and he also received all the necessary permissions from his management to carry out certain actions, so this witness was not allowed to attend court sessions as follows: we will receive a summons from... the court to summon him, send it to him, he will immediately be sent on a business trip, to some distant city, several hundreds of kilometers away, so that he cannot physically appear in court , and this happened five times during the pre-trial investigation, in your opinion, what is the reason, the reason that an sbu employee will come and say that this is an operation carried out by the sbu, so from the sbu

from its management, including the highest, i received the appropriate permissions to carry out all these actions. including on the involvement of the military, plus the sbu will need to explain how the letter was processed, because one of the pieces of evidence in the case is a letter signed by mr. zaluzhny in the name of mr. bakanov, in which valery fedorovych asks to second an employee of the sbu specifically to the sso to repel armed aggression of the russian federation, but this letter was directly in this operation, it... was connected with this operation, which we paid attention to, and the sbu will have to explain why they seconded their employee in such a case and in connection with than me too i think they won't be able to explain it somehow. ms. ludmila, as far as i know, roman chervinskyi is or was involved in two more criminal proceedings, do you know anything

about it? i don't know, maybe you can explain to me in more detail, then i can explain something. it's about a case where he allegedly impersonated an employee of the border guard and demanded money, you can tell like this, yes, this is a case that, in which he was really informed about the suspicion, it's in general some absolute nonsense, because the case is completely and completely made up , it appeared at the stage when roman was already in the pre-trial detention center, and i believe that the arguments of the defense side were so strong that the prosecution was afraid that roman would soon be released from custody, and for this they needed to insure themselves so that as soon as ... will be released from custody, immediately, in principle , do the same actions with him and take him into custody again, this is the only purpose of this criminal offense, because he has nothing to do with him at all,

none, and this case is currently at the pre-trial investigation there are open materials of the case, but it has very, very strange prospects, which will make the investigation unclear with it, because there is no evidence in the materials. not regarding roman, but the second case, regarding the alleged desertion of roman chogo, i understand, it is also such legal nonsense in general, how did this case appear and in connection with what? after all these events took place at kanatovo, roman was transferred to another position, to another military unit, it was transferred by whom, i apologize, that was the corresponding order and roman was transferred to another position, this order, this military unit, it was quite far from

the city of kyiv and the kyiv region. roman appealed this order to the court, because he previously wrote a report that he has three minor children, and in this case, he is legally entitled to serve in the region where the family is located. he wrote this report, he was refused. he appealed to the court against the order to transfer him there accordingly, this case was won in the first instance , the decision was overturned in the appellate instance, and in february of this year, we received a decision of the supreme court, where the supreme court canceled the order on his transfer to that military unit. meanwhile, during this same period of time, the sbi opened criminal proceedings for the fact that roman did not appear there in the military unit where he... was brought, it is factual, in it, in this proceeding, roman was not informed of the suspicion, the proceedings themselves due to the fact that chervinsky did not show up to a certain military unit.

after we received the decision of the supreme court, where it was written that this order accordingly, it is canceled and roman is no longer obliged to come anywhere, we sent this order to the dbi, and here the most interesting thing began, both the dbi and the prosecutor, who accordingly supervises this proceeding, refused to close the case a. because roman has nothing to do with this case, he is nobody there, we went to court, appealed this decision, again the court obliged us to properly consider our petition, we were again refused, again with the same wording that chervinskyi the novel has nothing to do with it to this proceeding, this proceeding is factual based on the fact of the person's failure to appear before the military unit, that is, the proceeding is factually related to the novel, but it is not related to the novel. somehow, ms. lyudmyla, this whole story with this court hearing, with the other two court cases, it, well, at least

looks like some kind of political or personal persecution of the colonel, what do you think about this, what roman chervinsky himself actually says? roman hryhorovych has repeatedly stated that he sees this as political persecution. for those things that were voiced by him at a certain time for the general public, for those operations that he conducted and disrupted, i somehow comment on this unallocated right, i can only convey directly his words in this part, at every court session he speaks about it, and other explanations for how this is all happening and what i explained to you about other criminal proceedings, how it all is, here is this one. course of events, it, unfortunately, carries little legal significance. finally, i want to ask you about your expectations, how this whole story can

end? i believe that this story will end with a vindication for roman. i am sure of this, because all the evidence of the prosecution side is already open to us, and we have collected quite a lot of our evidence over the course of a year, which clearly indicate his innocence in these actions. and i will finish with what i started: none of the ukrainian military is to blame, defending the homeland , that the russian federation is shelling, including military objects. therefore , i believe that no ukrainian military officer who acted lawfully, who defended his homeland, can be accused of of russia ms. lyudmila, i thank you very much for taking the time to talk with us, and like our viewers, i hope for... a fair decision of the court. the espresso tv channel is on the air, stay with us. let's listen to people

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the saturday political club helps to understand the processes taking place in ukraine and the world. vitaly portnikov, khrystyna yatskiv and invited experts based on facts give their assessment and forecast of the development of events. if you want to understand how our today will affect our tomorrow, watch the saturday politics club, every saturday on espresso. verdict with serhiy rudeku. from now on, in the new two-hour format, even more analytics, even more important topics, more more top guests, foreign experts, inclusion from abroad, about ukraine, the world , the front, society, and also feedback, you can express your opinion at the end of the day with the help of a telephone survey, turn on and be included, the verdict with serhiy rudenko , every weekday from 20 to 22 for espresso.

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