is decreasing, it is true, it is obvious that it should not be allowed, it is obvious that kharkiv should be defended so that even the russians do not think that they can seize it, but simply from the point of view of the global map, this is odessa, the loss of access to the sea , it's serious, yes, it's a strategic goal, of course, but it's unlikely, and the russians usually understand that even if they agree that ukraine remains on the political map of the world, they cannot neutralize it. they have to deprive it of access to the sea, a completely different country in this way, from an economic point of view , from a political point of view, to create a military capability, but this is not even in the plans right now, what we should always discuss are military plans for the coming years, unless , of course, everything suddenly ends there with some kind of armistice there for six months, a year , another year, it can also be there, let's say this representative of military intelligence says what is inside. on the 25th, there will be negotiations,

someone says that they will be earlier, i do not see any basis for negotiations at all, today's announcement is in search of two at once of the ukrainian presidents, poroshenko and zelensky says that the kremlin stands by the idea of ​​delegitimization of the ukrainian government, and is not going to hold any negotiations, but there may be a truce, that is, again, when on the 24th or 29th, not we know, but these are absolutely real chances, well, we understand very well that in addition to this... in fact , taking even some small settlements there , this is at the moment, this is demoralization, anyway, at least they are trying to demoralize ukrainian society, and of course, this this is the death of ours defenders, listen, but this is the logic of a war of attrition, if you want to win a war of attrition, then your task is not

to tell yourself some myths that you believe in, understand, and then not be disappointed and demoralized, you are not an apostle paul, who walked in the desert, met jesus christ there, it happens only once, when you want to see something, a miracle, and you can do it, for that you need to be an apostle, and you and i are not apostles, we live in real world, we can invent something for ourselves, then it doesn't happen and we can fall into depression, that's what it is, we thought that there was already coffee... in the christmas tree, but there is no coffee in the christmas tree. no, this is the calculation of the russians, they want to demoralize ukrainian society and clearly tell it that you will not be able to do anything, so to speak, to psychologically prepare the ground for capitulation. this is absolutely correct calculation, if you can't defeat the enemy, you have to demoralize him, he has every... wake up with the thought that it

will be over soon and he will lose, it must be with the military, it should be with people in the rear, they should gradually accustom themselves to the idea that tomorrow russian troops will be here in your place, and you will need to do something about it, i am not saying at all that people should not have such thoughts , but in general, a person differs from an animal in that he has the variability of thinking, of course, if you think that the russians can go somewhere and take over your region, well, think about what you will do in this situation, join the partisans or leave the region, but you may have another option, which is ukrainian the troops will liberate the region that is nearby and you also have to think about what to do in this situation, on the contrary you may find yourself in a much safer place than the one you lived in, everything in war is important any options, life, death, release, capture, demise. with everyone who is at

the front, who is not at the front, this is a war, that is , it is not necessary to invent with every person who is on the territory of ukraine during the war, anything can happen, and to each of these options, as to a positive , as for the negative, you have to be prepared and don't get demoralized, i say this all the time, this is the most important point, because if you get demoralized, consider that the russians have already won, one more point, the russians can prepare the society. to the future, this is also an absolutely correct calculation, well , let's say, the war will end, and they already understand that, in principle , they will not have such a great success in the war, but they have to create the impression that it was about, about, but by some miracle we went and met the lord in the desert, and he told us that...

it will be okay, it didn't happen, not for objective reasons, but it just somehow didn't happen, they missed a little bit, which means that this society, it comes out of the war, and it immediately... votes for the forces that we spoke with you at the beginning of our program, who say that we will have normal relations with russia, we will coexist with it, that is, you are alluding to georgia here in this context, so by the way georgia, by the way georgia, mr. vitaly very rightly said that georgia remembers the year 2008, the attack on georgia, actually the annexation 20-20% of her. we understand that several years have passed since then, and in georgia they receive a huge amount of trust, forces

that, well, even if they do not directly declare that, at least they do not say it, so they are somewhere there, as they say, somewhere we will meet somewhere in the middle, somewhere there... normalize relations, and indeed, i agree with the fact that there is a great threat that russia also works for the future, that is, russia works in a hybrid way, russia never works only with military methods, the state committee security, they don't even know how to do otherwise, that's what they are they know everything much better than to fight, they sit for days and weeks, and all these plans are drawn up by different departments, on various different options for... the development of the situation, and here i always hear that ukraine cannot be, become georgia, because georgia had a short war, and we have such a long one, well, first of all, what does it mean that georgia had a short war? in georgia, of course, there was an intense war for a short time, but in georgia there was a conflict with russia from the end of the 80s, the beginning of the 90s, people were beaten on

rustavelli avenue with these sapper shovels, known the story dates back to soviet times, once there was a war in abkhazia. real on the territory of abkhazia, which ended with military ethnic cleansing, the expulsion of almost all ethnic georgians, with the exception of those who lived in the hald district, which is the majority of the population of the autonomous republic. two, during the 2008 war there was ethnic cleansing of georgians on the territory of south ossetia, three. that is, in fact, all the time we are talking about a conflict of various types, they were in such a confrontation all the time. president eduard. shevanadze was taken by helicopter from the war zone, so that he would not be captured by the troops that were then led by the future leaders of the chechen national resistance there, shamil basayev and others who fought there with the russian army together

against the georgians, between us we forget it, but these are the facts of history, but appointed the then chairman of the council of ministers of the abkhazian autonomy. that vernadze shot him, we don't remember all these facts, we don't know them, because then ukraine was not interested in anything, we were all friends with russia, let him do what he wants in transnistria, in abkhazia, it is brotherly people, yes, three, three peoples, that's why, that 's why, this georgia did not arouse any special sympathy in the majority of our compatriots with you, and less than that, but more than that, there were our compatriots who fought on the side of transnistria against moldova, remember, the national team. our radicals, well, that is, let's not mention history now, i'm just saying that georgia moved to normalization with russia after a decade, about, no, 20 years, 20 years of historical, historical and

military trials, ethnic cleansing, people who lived in hotels for decades, dreaming of getting to their native places , got nowhere, and i generally believe that the formula is completely different. the more difficult the war is, the greater is the demand for normalization in society, but i have a big question, why it turned out to be so serious in georgia, if the war was so short, and i answer myself, because they lived in it for 20 years, because the war was long, because they lived in tension, cold, lack of light, absence.

it was mykhailo who belonged to the russian federation saakashvili, when he is president, ivanishvili is not poor, attract russian tourists, business, have money, live normally, everything. and now we see that some part of the people is emerging again, saying, no, we don't want to live normally if we don't have freedom, but this is a new stage, so why, russians, that's all. . understanding, they are preparing us for exactly such emotions, you understand, and then, in principle, coming to power in ukraine, and we have 80% of the votes in the elections, from uzhhorod to the cities in the east, we will be careful to say, inevitable, everyone who will go to vote, he will have only one idea that he should never be called to the tsc more than... his wife will have the idea that he

, her or her husband should never be called to the tsc, his mother will have the idea that her son was never called to the tcc, no one will have any more ideas if you tell them: "listen, i am petro petrovsky, i will make it so that we, that russia will never fight with us, we will not remember to be proud of their military successes, to honor their defenders, but there will never be another war, you will not have to fight, because we will build a completely different system mutually, i will become the president for 20 years, you will take me out of the bank, simply because i have already dried up in the presidential office, you know, for so long this society will have a fear of war, the problem is that , in fact, these thoughts that you are talking about now are already being discussed somewhere, in a whisper, so to speak, by individual people, and

the audience will not allow this to be dismissed, that in fact people are already somewhere, somewhere, somewhere they say that it is, well, the main thing is that it doesn't happen war, so what, it was russia that played it out all the time, remember 2014, at first the party of war was declared to be the right sector, some kind of mythical one, which was inflated on all russian tv screens. but there were some opposition leaders there, yatsenyuk, klitschko, tsyagnebok, who went to negotiations, tried to maintain the situation, they were talked about as politicians, yanukovych fled, the people's front, created by yatsenyuk and his associates, became the party of war, and normal, constructive politicians began surrender to petro poroshenko and his party, because it was considered in russia, which means they are more capable. before the surrender, when it turned out that this was not the case, poroshenko was declared the leader of the war party, but a completely

constructive person, well, here is volodymyr oleksandrovich, we will meet with him, and suddenly volodymyr oleksandrovich after the first meeting, when it turns out that he is not going to surrender , also the leader of the war party, that is, they are constantly trying to demonstrate to ukrainians that everyone who defends national ... and does not capitulate to russia, even if different ideas about national interests, this is the leader of the war party, that national interests are war, and if you want peace, then vote for the leader of the peace party, who is the leader of the peace party volodymyr volodymyrovych will tell you, he will pull out the name and everything from the envelope, and they are all the time this is what they are trying to do, and you see that they are changing these leaders of the war party, some people... are engaged in political struggle with others, because they are positioned as the leaders of the peace party, against the leaders of the war party,

constructive people, and as soon as they just speak , well, we are ukrainian politicians, we are we will not give you ukraine, well, the leader of the party, but why the leader of the war party, and because we are at war with those who do not want to give us ukraine, simple logic, and it is dangerous, i say, this is necessary, whenever the war is not over, let's say this, andriy, for this... we need to prepare, because otherwise we will get such a country of the belarusian-hungarian type, well, we will actually return to the hybrid version that was, let's say , until 2014, hybrid option, because we have to understand one thing, that in the end everything the final goal of russia will be the liquidation of ukrainian statehood, and still final. the goal will be war, in whatever form it is,

no matter what, because russia generally believes that this statehood, it may not be loyal, but integrated, these are different types of ideas, well, that is, by and large , statehood can be preserved in the belarusian version, when you understand exactly, this is what josep borel talked about today, i think, or yesterday at the lecture. that there can be a naxal belarusian government, that is, a government that will provide its territory as a springboard for of russian troops, well, the base in sevastopol, well, it is already on the territory in general. russia, as putin thinks, well, in uzhhorod, there is still somewhere to have bases, and they say that you are an independent state, you have a president medvedchuk or some other chuk, but you, we, just our bases guarantee peace to you, we will not attack you, because our troops are already here, and they will not attack you either,

do you remember the last time this was used, we had mr. publix in... er program, we have such a term that the occupation of the baltic countries by the soviet union took place, but this is not quite the case, that is , the occupation took place, but it was not external, because initially the governments of the baltic countries signed an agreement with the soviet union on the placement of its military bases on the territory of latvia, lithuania and estonia, and then many people said, let's say finland, which was against this, and what, that you... are sending soviet troops to you, what do you want to get in general, and moscow said the opposite, well, why should we do anything with your sovereignty , when our military is already at your bases, well , that is, sovereignty is already limited, when, when the military, when the military, relatively speaking,

of the occupying state or of any state are on the territory, on the territory of the state. which they want to occupy, this is essentially a limitation of sovereignty, and what we had in ukraine with the black sea fleet, what we had happened in the baltic, they walked out of the barracks one fine day, they didn't have to stand up at the border and break through the border, if you have such an internal one, and we left the barracks at the end of february and on at the beginning of march 2014, a similar situation arose, this is a good example, so here it is... there is an idea, and this idea may be very appealing to many of our compatriots, who will say: listen, well, if they have bases here, they will not to fight with us, if they have everything here anyway, everything is fine, they still need to put up a monument to pushkin so that they calm down, so why portray pushkin, by the way, about the monument to pushkin, and here there is one more the threat, which is that,

unlike georgia, ukraine all the time was in this... informational, informational, informational occupation, civilization-informational, media, you can call it differently, yes, that is, when even now in 2024, today, may 4, many of our compatriots still continue to consume which product, russian, considering that if there are people of an older generation who have stopped doing it, then the youth, then the youth who watch, they watch precisely his russian-language samples, and russians are already actively working on this, because they understand all, i would say, charms i already see this situation people who say in tiktok, oh, i'm out of politics, that's already happened, i don't want to talk about politics, peace to all, they are the same people as we are there, well, what can they do and what

can we do, they don't want our veoncom, we don't want our veoncom, what separates us? russia, if it used to come through tv, today it comes through social networks, through tiktok, through youtube, through various paid platforms, including russian content, which, unfortunately, is understandable for many of our citizens. and many of our citizens believe that if it is clear, if it is available, if it is free, if it is close to someone , it will be good.

"be with me, like, join me, like crimea, ha ha ha." and there is no politics. this is a joke. and so the mentality changes. because what is in principle a tragedy becomes simply, relatively speaking, the subject of someone else's joke. and people, of course, change their mentality, which then gives an opportunity to make a living on this soil, even to their own shameless populists. here, too, there is an important thing that this whole, i would say, speech. times the club of the cheerful and resourceful, aka all-soviet, it is a triumph of stupidity, and this triumph of stupidity of fate is still used so that people do not have any real... the popularity of the so-called rashish tv series

, the word kid, so absolutely, absolutely russian technology, fsbshna, moreover , the technology, because it was filmed with essentially money from a fund that shoots and supports documentaries and feature films about the occupation. of ukraine, that is, this is a purely fsb project, and, unfortunately, there will be many more such projects, but in order to convince young people, that we are all the same, here you have a gang in kazan, someone has a gang in ryazan, and you have a gang somewhere in some town in the east of ukraine, what, what are we fighting for in general, it’s all politicians, it’s all zelensky , you understand, they still say that... zelensky did not fulfill the minsk agreement, zelensky started a war with russia, they are about the same thing, by the way,

they say about zelensky what they said about poroshenko before his election, absolutely correct , there will be the next president, it will be the same, you elected him so that he would be friends with us, he freely gives you to live as long as you have left to live, and these years. is selected, so it is true, it is difficult to fight with it, precisely because people themselves have to make this choice, and they do not tell vitaly, how we, what steps we need to take, as a society, as the authorities, as possible for certain institutions, individual state, in general, as a state in order to avoid this scenario, which you and i have been talking about for the last 20 minutes, and the scenario, as in the political plane, the cultural plane, and then in the end, we understand on the war plane, what do we do but fight, but fight

, if the scenario that you just voiced, that you and i have just laid out for our audience, to avoid it and not turn into russia, because, as valery zaluzhnyi absolutely said at one time, a small soviet army will not win... and a small soviet union will not win a large soviet union, it does not happen, uh, you see, there is nothing surprising in the fact that they can fight between states with very similar regimes, remember the war between the people's republic of china and the socialist republic of vietnam, about which everyone spoke sarcastically, on both sides, red flags, this is a very, very instructive story, did not share a large part of the territory. did china want to stand up for its chinese who lived on the territory of vietnam, by the way, the russian-speaking population, and they started a war, but the task of this war in both countries

was not to change the social order or anything like that, but simply to show who is the boss , who is the main power here, after what, after after the end of the war, they continued to communicate as if this war had never happened, and this is also a very important moment, about which... it must be said, this is such a real story, we are still fighting with russia in a civilizational way, because we are not just fighting for identity , and for freedom as a part of this identity, that is why i believe that when we say that russia is a dictatorship, it is effective, let's create something more effective, authoritarian, with control over information, with a marathon, with vertical power. what everyone is talking about, yevhen magda spoke today, about the government of national unity, of course it looks funny from the point of view of people who grew up in the soviet union, believe that the only effective vertical is the vertical of putin and

lukashenka. why should we share power with someone, why should we share authority with someone at all, when we know everything better than everyone else and understand everything better than everyone else, that's how putin lukashenko thinks about himself. why do we need a diversity of opinions about what the state should look like, if we can completely control all information. flow, but now we say again, here are the results for you control, that people are starting to get depressed, because the same tv channels that the day before yesterday told them that tomorrow everything will be great, and the war will end, and you don't have to worry about anything at all, and if you went abroad, well done, you have , you don't have, you don't put a burden on our economy because we wouldn't have allowed so many people, now they're saying the opposite, you have to... understand that there may still be occupied territory, you, everyone will serve, and you must serve and not create illusions that you in general, you can somehow survive this war, and

in this way, let yourself. they said that we can, and if you went abroad, then you are almost not a traitor, i say, not even about the men of pronoviki now, in general, because those who stayed here are people who really love this country, well what about you, if you didn't get rid of these 8-10 million -10 million people who went there, how would you even survive in the first years of the war, these were people who lost everything very often, homes, apartments, property, you had no money to pay them e money for living. there was no housing for them, there was nothing, and now you blame them for leaving, when you yourself, proved unable to provide for the existence of so many people in a territory controlled by a legitimate government, you yourself called the people to escape, why all this changes on the same channel, and if there was diversity, then there would be a discussion, not about the war, you see, again, i generally think that about the war and about the course of military operations,

this is also... everyone's favorite pastime, one must speak very carefully, and one must speak it is necessary to discuss what is happening with public life, it is necessary that one tv channel has one idea about ukraine in the future, and another on another, and then we need to have a clear understanding that we have a chance to change the government after the war, not confirm the existing authority, so that if people believe that the authority has failed in 2022, so that they can make it clear? to signal during elections, and that requires a free press, and that requires political competition, and that requires joint responsibility, now a lot needs to be done, because otherwise, you understand, we will turn into a soviet-russian civilization even before the end of the war, and then we will simply be in russian arbitrage, look, georgia is a candidate for membership in the european union, georgian society voted for membership in nato , was a member supporter.

yes there were 90% of people in favor of it when we had 30, why did it prevent it, what did it guarantee? we must clearly understand that no sociological sentiments that we currently record in sociological surveys guarantee us the fact that ukraine will simply turn into a russian political, cultural and economic province faster than we... it seems, and at the same time we can be considered candidates for the european union, and what's more, let's not forget, we can even become members, let's not to forget that these data, polls, people's opinions can change, that is, it's the same, we, we are now actually measuring people, when during the active phase of the war, the temperature will drop, and when we, relatively speaking, the war stops, ends, any wording is possible here brothers, we can have or. to get completely

different data, by the way, about responsibility, i believe that it should really include responsibility, but in addition, those persons who dragged the russian world here. in our country , de facto, the people who brought russian peace to ukraine are not entirely responsible for something . repainted there is one more question that we have, we talked not only about such a society, such and such a society problem, including that we talked with you just now about the informational and cultural influence of russia, which has always been one of the key influences on the ukrainian audience, on

ukrainian society, on different. moreover , the stratification dimensions of ukrainian society, what should we do with it, how should we do it now or now, in the future, in the coming years, to change this russian cultural and informational influence in ukraine, what should it be, to ban something or to offer our own, to build some conventional wall from all this, considering that we can't ban there... because we'll see what else the united states of america will do, right? but what should we do here, what should be a comprehensive approach from your point of view so that there is no russian world in ukrainian minds and that this russian world does not flow from ukrainian monitors, phones, computers, tablets? the first issue is popularization. these are grants for

the production of ukrainian products.