olaf soy of a separate mechanized brigade of the armed forces of ukraine. let's stick together. welcome to radio svoboda. today, the metropolitan of kyiv and all ukraine, epiphany, is the primate of the orthodox church of ukraine. good day. good day, i greet you. we are recording this interview before easter. and people will watch it on easter. my first question. in how, from your point of view , the role and functions of the church changed during the war, because they could not help but change, it seems to me that this is indeed the third time we meet the bright, joyful celebration of the resurrection of christ during a great war, after a full-scale invasion, because we have been living in a state of war for almost more than 10 years, although we say that this war has been going on for more than a century, that is... the struggle continues, but after

a full-scale invasion, this is how we count the time , and indeed we found ourselves in such difficult conditions, and the church, which plays an important role in the life of ukrainian society , is also adapting to the realities of this war, that is, it is the instrument that currently supports ukrainian society, supports first of all... spiritually, you think, it supports, yes, of course, it supports, because not only society, but also the ukrainian army, because during this time the corresponding bill on military chaplaincy was adopted, because we see and feel and hear from our servicemen a great a request, a spiritual request, if, for example, a certain unit does not have a military chaplain, then very often, even the military, when i see them... they ask that we lack

one chaplain, for example, there in the brigade, give us more chaplains, that is, there is such a great request for her for spiritual support, because of course, it is very difficult for our military there on the front line during the war, and especially when he is there for a long time, it is spiritually difficult, morally difficult, and therefore we need such support, the support of a clergyman, that is , during this time we... are trying to support ukrainian society not only spiritually, but also materially, because practically all our communities of the local ukrainian orthodox church, and now we have approximately 9,000 religious communities, all of them have become such small humanitarian hubs that collect humanitarian aid, distribute it, help, that is, each parish now collects funds for a friend there. sends various

help to the military, that is, we not only pray and take care of spiritual things, but also do everything that depends on us in order to support, even materially, this difficult time of ukrainians who suffered especially in the occupied territories, who were forced to leave their homes, losing everything, that's why the church becomes with such support, this is... a difficult time to go through these trials, of course we believe that this war will end in victory, but something must be done, of course, what we are doing, each in his place, everything depends on him, but sometimes when we're alone it seems like we're doing little, well i've contributed a little there, i've helped something, i've participated, uh, but when we get together, we testify that we're...

doing, then we become such a great driving force, which is able to overcome the obstacles that the aggressor country is now arranging for us, because at the beginning they believed that they would take us in three days, and by the way, i did not plan to ask you this, but i will ask, did you believe that there would be a war, did you expect a war, or did you belong to that category of society that said everything would happen, anything, but not a full-scale war, we predicted, it was hard to say... firmly at the time whether it would happen or not, the whole world was talking about it, but still, we thought that common sense would win and putin would not go a full-scale invasion, or it will go, but only in donbas, it will not go completely from all of them fronts, that is, from the territory of belarus and all along the border with ukraine, but we were there. ready for this, mentally we were

ready, of course, the first days were difficult, but we adapted, we are, as they say, spiritually armed, and we are already fighting... the third year, i will now ask you a question that is probably heard often these last two years, psychologists: i wish and rejoice in the death of the russians, it is normal, what will the church say about this? well, we as christians, but again we are talking about christians who commit such atrocities and kill christians, and it is blessed by the russian church, the church that considers ukraine to be its canonical territory, and they bless it. occupiers to kill ukrainians, and we see, we feel, and it is natural, this hatred, hatred of the evil that broke into our home, because it is natural,

when we see suffering, when we see innocent, peaceful residents die, children die, then it causes rage and not... hatred, but i have already repeatedly talked about this, that we should not accumulate this hatred in ourselves, because it is dangerous, on the contrary, we should use this energy to direct to good, that is, to do as much as possible to bring victory near, that is, we do much, but again, to redouble those efforts in order to... counteract this evil, for we must hate evil, and those who do evil, they violate the law, the christian law, because only the lord disposes of human life, and murder, of course, which is a sin,

but it can also be interpreted differently when someone came. into our home and kills us, it is a great sin, it is murder, but when we defend ourselves, when we show love, to to their homeland, to their neighbors, then it is interpreted a little differently, so we must protect freedom, we must protect goodness, we must protect human lives, and those soldiers who are now defending the territorial integrity of ukraine, they show... sacrificial love to his neighbors, and the lord said that he has no greater love than to lay down his life for his friends, that is, they lay down their lives, they resist the enemy, they destroy the enemy, that is, they destroy the evil that they do, they suppress this evil , and therefore

here you need, as they say, that energy that arises naturally, like hatred. accumulate, not accumulate, on the contrary, as they say, direct it to good, convert people into donors or something? well, yes, we see that when there are certain shellings or attacks there, the number of those who help and donate immediately increases, and this is good. please tell me, do you maintain any contact with your... temples, i don't know if they remained there as parishioners during the occupation? the situation is quite difficult in the occupied territories, because we are outside their so-called

law, that is, we have no rights for our activities, it is forbidden there, of course it is forbidden, we practically lost all ours in crimea. grams and recently the dome from the cathedral in simferopol was dismantled, well, we have practically stopped our activities on the territory of the crimean peninsula, we are operating on the territory of the currently temporarily occupied regions of donetsk, luhansk, and kherson regions, but underground. it looks like this, that is, there are still clerics in the territory of these regions who are underground they hold a religious service, that is, they gather the congregation somewhere so that no one knows about it, because they come and arrest them, but recently

there was information that our priest, father, was tortured and killed in the territory of the kherson region... stepan, this is in the ssmt kalanchak, if i'm not mistaken, that is, he was interrogated, and practically executed this priest who was performing divine services there, he... performed, well, probably performed divine services in the temple, because they come, interrogate, forbid, er, warn, but there are such priests who are not afraid and commit service until the end, they are imprisoned, then deported, but in february , two clergymen were deported, who were in prison for six months, then... they were deported to the territory of georgia, they were simply brought to the border, they were thrown out at

the border in their clothes and that's all, but somehow you keep statistics, you have an idea of ​​how many of your priests are left in the occupation, that's how we keep statistics, we don't announce them in order to, but you know, that's how we know, we communicate, that is, at the level of dioceses, but we don't have it... we sew in order not to give an excuse for the occupiers to further destroy our presence there altogether. and these are the priests who made a decision for themselves to stay there, did you ask them to stay there, or are you , on the contrary, calling them to leave? well, our local bishops, for example, metropolitan serhiy of donetsk, mariupol, or vladyka nikodym of kherson, they call you. go, why? for because human life is precious, and they do not

want to expose their priests to danger, but they ask and say, warn that it would be better to leave in under such conditions, the occupied territory, and then after the victory we will return again, but there are priests who themselves decide that they will stay. they are loyal to their community and they are even ready to suffer, now i want to talk about the laurels, it is not only the kiev-pechersk lavra, there are also other ukrainian shrines, but let's start with the kyiv-pechersk lavra, and last year in march the kyiv-pechersk lavra was torn apart , broke the contract with the uoc of the mp, but in fact it happened now , as a matter of fact, the ocu also has the opportunity to serve in churches. kyiv-pechersk lavra and the uoc mp has the opportunity to serve, of course, it was

a historic event on christmas day on the 23rd, when you held a service there, and after that, you know, society expected, and what will happen next, the lavra will transfer to the ocu, the lavra will remain, such a night is nobody's, and he will not belong to any church, or the lavra will be defended by the uoc mp, now we see in you some kind of, excuse me, balance of forces, then you, then they, then you, then they, what is it all called, how to understand it all, what is this process? which is now taking place in the lavra, well gradually the kyiv-pechersk lavra is freed from the spiritual occupation of this murderous ideology of the russian world, so now part of the lower lavra is illegally in the hands of the moscow patriarchate, because a decision was made, the contract was broken, there are relevant... court decisions that they must leave the territory of the lower lavra, but

they do not own the entire territory of the lower lavra, only a part of it, these are caves and several temples, several buildings, that is, this process of spiritual purification occurs gradually, they block, but we do not want to provoke confrontation, we are for everything to happen peacefully and calmly, and... and only within the limits of ukrainian legislation, but they do not want to implement, as we see, the decisions of both judges and the decisions of the ukrainian authorities, and therefore until now it is still temporary are in, blocking, but the last thing that happened was on the second anniversary of the full-scale invasion, they closed the access to the caves to the chaplains. for the military, who wanted to pray for ukraine, for victory, they

blocked and did not allow it to be done, that is, it is a national ukrainian shrine, a shrine of the ukrainian people, and therefore everyone should have access to it, now they are blocking it, barricading themselves there, but they closed it and took away the key and that's it, they closed it, and that's why it's a gradual process. the liberation of lavra, but we are a democratic country, we do not want to behave the way the occupiers behave with us in the occupied territories, this is unacceptable. and so we are already waiting for the final decision of the judges, who have to make the appropriate decision, but the fight continues, you see, it is gradual, but it continues, and i think that will end with the complete spiritual deoccupation of the kochka lavra, but it must be recognized that they are also supported by people who are

their believers, and they do not perform their services in empty churches, no, they have. of course, his followers are spiritually blinded, those who are still devoted to this ideology of the russian world, and we have seen a lot of different stories, even from the kyivochre lavra, where these elderly women directly and openly talk about the fact that there is no ukraine, they are waiting here russians who... will liberate them and so on, that is, they are drugged, spiritually drugged, and they don't even deny it, they don't hide it, they talk about it freely, that's why there is this percentage, but according to the latest sociological polls, many sociological polls, there is still support, it's somewhere around 4% of the population

of ukraine supporting moskovskyi the patriarchate of ukraine, but this is not surprising, because... this percentage of the population also supports putin, that is, there is a certain percentage of ukrainians who believe that they should be in this one russian world, and therefore there are such, they will and will support this church, but we are not against, there is nothing against you not supporting, if we are a democratic country, the russian orthodox church can exist in ukraine, but they... should call themselves the russian orthodox church, and not disguise themselves under the name of the ukrainian church, we are against it , that is, if you want to be an integral part of the russian orthodox church, then please write on your temples that you are a russian orthodox church, a church, and do not mislead ukrainians that you are a ukrainian church, but

in fact you there is no such thing, that is, it can always... to be there partly for those who wish for russians in ukraine, if they wish to have, for example, churches, to visit them, then there are no problems, but then the question arises for ukrainians on the territory of russia, how many ukrainians are there, there are millions of ukrainians on the territory of russia federation, but we do not have any church, we do not have any representative office, that is... it is a normal phenomenon when another church can be present on the territory of one local orthodox church, which, with the permission of the local church, serves and provides spiritual services, you are here spiritual support, you have come to a very

important topic here, because when i started studying the church issue, i will be honest, i don't... go to churches, but somehow already during the full-scale full-scale invasion, i found myself in the czech republic, communicating with ukrainians there , who here in ukraine are and were parishioners of the ukrainian orthodox church of the russian orthodox church, when i talked with them, i found out that they go to the russian church in prague, i say: why don't you go to the ukrainian church there to the ocu, but they say there is no , i say, if there is no, then there is no, i began to be interested, and what is in other countries, i found out that ocu in principle... does not exist in other countries, what are we doing about it, what can be done about it? well, we try to support it spiritually, we send priests, but you said that the russian church is present, because this process has been going on for decades, that is, they had this presence even in soviet times, they built churches everywhere,

that is, their representative offices, for example, there or in bulgaria in... they had their representative office almost in the center of sofia, they planted everywhere, and we understand why they did it at the state level, because it the state funded, the russian state actively funded the opening of moscow patriarchate parishes all over the world, and we see studies that these cells became intelligence cells, the fsb and so on, that is, they... specially planted it, and now we see that abroad they continue their active activities in order to attract ukrainians again, what should you do? we are together with the ecumenical patriarchate, because since we do not have such a right to establish

our parishes in other countries outside the borders of ukraine, because it is written in tomos, but together with the ecumenical patriarch, because he has the exclusive right to the diaspora, we send priests, there is a present ukrainian... orthodox church of the usa, which has many communities, communities and in europe, uh, that is, in germany there is there are more than 20 communities, ukrainian communities, there are now in poland, many ukrainian communities that are served by our priests, priests of the orthodox church of ukraine, in those countries, for example, the nordic countries, we send priests there, for example, the last one, this... when easter was celebrated according to the gregorian calendar calendar, and the only church is the finnish church, it celebrates according to the gregorian, because it is not so big there in

the territory of finland, and together with the lutherans, they celebrate easter together, so we sent, sent a clergyman who traveled, communicated , of all things easter, that is, it satisfies the spiritual needs of the ukrainians who are there, this is sweden, this is denmark, this, er, that is, european countries, we do what depends on us, what we can do, and, as far as i remember, it seems that metropolitan filaret criticized tomos for this, that's right there are written conditions that the ocu cannot open its temples abroad, this condition must be met, or maybe, when the time comes, it can be changed, and do you want to change this condition? we received tomos. on autocephaly, that is, it is a document that certifies that we are an independent autocephalous local orthodox church, but we fulfill the

prescriptions that exist in this document, that is , we cannot change the laws sometimes, you know, well, it’s over time, it’s not it depends on us, it depends on the universal patriarchy, we are not hindered, we we contribute and help, that is... we have the opportunity to support, that is, to send a priest, but only in cooperation with local dioceses, with local metropolitans of the ecumenical patriarchate. and it doesn’t depress you a bit, like the head of the church, well, you said, russia built its churches abroad for years and had such an influence on its citizens and not only on citizens, well, from the point of view there, maybe even national security, i'm not talking about the religious ones. moments, wouldn't it be good for ukraine to have churches abroad, i say that there are cooperation, it is not a problem, we do what

is ours, yes, we do what depends on us now, not without violating what was established, that is, we we want to have good relations with the ecumenical patriarch, with other local orthodox churches, and we must understand that there are certain canonical norms that... we adhere to, we have no right to violate, but now the russian orthodox church is violating it, and it has invaded the territory of alexandria of the patriarchate, created its exarchate, this is a violation, and this condemn the majority of local orthodox churches, that is, there are certain norms, there are laws, there are canons that we do not have the right to violate, because if everyone acts according to their own discretion, then of course it will lead to such chaos. in orthodoxy, there is a certain order, of course, now there are such difficult conditions for ukrainians, but we do everything to

support ukrainians, but you are talking about the russian federation, which financed at the state level, that is, it was not financed by the church, because the church does not always have such opportunities, it was financed by the state, and therefore in this case and the state must understand... that it is necessary to support ukrainians abroad, even helping them to, well, satisfy their spiritual needs, because the church alone in such conditions, especially now, we do not have the opportunity to even purchase something, or you yourself you understand, abroad it is necessary to have huge resources, very often communities invite a priest. to this or that country, but they say that they don't need a priest on a permanent basis, because they can't keep him, for example, we

send there... once a quarter or for large holidays, because it is difficult for them, for example, there in the united states of america or in canada, where there is already an old diaspora, they have this opportunity, and those refugees who have now left ukraine, they are mostly poor, they only receive subsidies, support, and therefore it is difficult even to maintain a priest or a temple for them. therefore , in most of europe, they rent and receive churches from roman catholics for religious services, that is, this issue is not so simple, it is quite complicated, but we are gradually solving it in cooperation with the ecumenical we decide with patriarchy. allow me to return to the laurels, because we talked about kyiv-pocherska, and there are also pochaivska and

sviatohirska. as i understand it, these lavras, they still remain as such, an impregnable fortress for the ocu, or am i mistaken, well, we believe that there are two lavras, the kyiv-pechersk lavra and the pochaiv lavra, because the status of the sviatohirsk lavra, the sviatohirsk monastery received during the reign yanukovych, and moscow raised it at his request. the status of this monastery is prior to the lavra, but historically it was never a lavra, that is, historically we can to talk about the existence of two great ukrainian lavras, the kyiv and pochaiv lavras, that is, as for the kyiv-pechers lavra, we have already announced the current state of affairs there, and of course that we

are working and... that is, we are negotiating, communicating gradually there around the community, because the pochaiv lavra is such an outpost in western ukraine, because if we take western ukraine, frankiv oblast, de facto there is no parish of the moscow patriarchate, now lviv oblast too, de facto. has everyone moved? yes, everyone moved and lvivska region, there is not a single community of the moscow patriarchate, in the territory of the ternopil region, now there are several dozen parishes there, and it is mainly around the pochaiv lavra, this is the kremenetsk district, the former, or is it now the kremenetsk district, that is , there, that is, the lavra is such an outpost

of the moscow patriarchy in the west. ukraine, and i repeat again that we want this process to be peaceful, calm, so that there are no confrontations, although sometimes we see this, but there are certain provocations on the part of the moscow patriarchate in order to to show a picture to the outside world that persecution, persecution and so on are happening here, in reality there is no such thing, that is why this process is slow, difficult, but it is not reversible, the time will come when the ukrainian laurels will be part of the local ukrainian orthodox church, that is the question only time, how much time you give for the pochaiv lavra, i will not predict, it was like with the kiev-pechersk lavra, when i said four years that i would serve, then everyone looked like that and talked about what was unreal, but when we served, it turned out that it is real, that is, we must believe, and i believe

that ... these laurels will belong and we will not now have any chronological framework there or predict how long, the main thing is that it is calm , peacefully, voluntarily, and gradually it will happen, tell me, do you personally receive any threats, for example, from the believers of the ukrainian orthodox church? no, it didn't happen, i often communicate with different people, i will go somewhere in the regions, to places, i often communicate with... people who are parishioners of the uocp, and here i am, perhaps this is a very subjective experience, they as a rule, they believe that they are being persecuted in ukraine, that they want to take away the church and god there, and i have often heard that you are such an image for them of all this persecution and evil, from which they suffer, i do not come into contact with them directly, i.e. maybe there somewhere in social networks and so on, but i don't follow...

social networks so directly on...