and other cities of russia, analysis of the processes that change the country and each of us, the country should get the right to start negotiations on joining the eu. vitaly portnikov and the guests of the project: we are bored, because there is nothing to fight about, let's invent something, they help us understand the present and predict the future. for the world, a second trump presidency will be terrifying. a project for those who care and think. political club. every sunday at 20:10 at espresso. greetings friends, the second part of the verdict program is on the air of the espresso tv channel, my name is serhiy rudenko, today in the episode: no the status of the russian dictator is determined, part of the world community refuses to recognize putin's legitimacy, what consequences will this have for the leader? kremlin. the big

power reset that didn't happen. rumors about possible staff rotations are denied in the cabinet of ministers. why is the ukrainian government losing the trust of its citizens. the evolution of the telethon. the public can leave the single news and resume broadcasting on the first channel. will a broadcaster independent of the authorities be allowed to return to its own air. we will talk about this and other things in the next 45 minutes talk on our air, i want to remind you that we work live on the tv channel, as well as on our youtube and facebook platforms. for those who are currently watching us live on youtube and facebook, please subscribe to our pages on those platforms and also take part in our survey. today we ask you the following: are you satisfied with the work of the government of denys shmyhal? yes, no, it's pretty simple on youtube, if you have a special personal opinion, maybe... leave it in the comments below this

video. if you watch us on tv, pick up your smartphone or phones and vote if you are satisfied with the work of the schmigel government, 0800 2111-381, no, 0800-211382. all calls to these numbers are free, vote. at the end of the program , we will sum up the results of this vote. i want to introduce the guests of today's studio, this is yulia klymenko, people's deputy of ukraine from the voice faction, first deputy head of the parliamentary committee on transport and infrastructure, ms. yulia, i congratulate you, thank you for being with us today. good evening. nikita poturaev, national deputy of ukraine from the servant of the people, chairman of the verkhovna rada committee on humanitarian and information policy, vice-president of the osce parliamentary assembly. mr. nikita, i congratulate you, thank you for joining the broadcast. good evening. and rossislav pavlenko, people's deputy of ukraine for european solidarity, member of the verkhovna rada committee on education and science. and innovation, mr.

rostyslav, i welcome you, thank you for being with us today, good evening, ladies and gentlemen, let's start our conversation with bliss survey, as we ask about the work of shmyhal's government and we ask our viewers whether they are satisfied with the work of shmyhal's government, i will also ask you, but please, if possible briefly, whether you are satisfied with the work of denys shmyhal's government, let's start with yulia klymenko. well, in short, they are not satisfied, but i think that the majority of citizens hardly know the ministers and the prime minister at all, since in our country the issue is not resolved in the government, in the office of the president. thank you, mr. rostyslav, well, i am also dissatisfied, the question of forming a professional government of national unity has been pending for a long time rescue, i think it would fix the situation in the country. thank you, mr. nikita. well, of course, i am

more satisfied than dissatisfied, although there are complaints, and in fact, well, our faction also has its complaints against certain ministers, but in general i am more satisfied, well , look here, is this our traditional ukrainian history, or at all always we, as ukrainians , are satisfied with the activities of the authorities, well , it is enough to mention our ratings, which in my opinion, our ratings as the verkhovna rada, which in my opinion are less. than trust ratings to government, so it is definitely not for us to discuss trust in the government, well, you can discuss it, because you form this government and you can change it, this is exactly within the competence of the verkhovna rada of ukraine, and the verkhovna rada of ukraine can change any minister, you mentioned these ratings, according to the results of investigations conducted by the dem-initiative fund in april 2014, only 24% of respondents trust the ukrainian government, no... almost 59, but why do we

ask this question? we ask this question because in april of this year, representatives of the people's servants and representatives of the government of e. zelensky and zelensky's team talked about possible rotations of ministers, and we still do not have a minister of culture and information policy, despite the fact that this is a rather important position during the war, considering the informational pressure that is coming from the russian federation. that is , personnel rotations, which were supposed to be sometime in mid-april, were postponed until may, and now it has become known that at the meeting of the coordination council on reforms, forms of state administration in may the cabinet of ministers plans to present a project to create a government center that will coordinate the ministry's work, oleg nemchynov announced this. earlier, denys shmyhal announced that as part of the government reform, they plan to reduce the number of ministries by a third, and accordingly

, the number of civil servants will also be reduced. ms. yulia, what is behind this, you know, what is behind this is the center of the government, the center. the government department, the center for making the right decisions, the center that will help ministers and deputies, deputy ministers, take the right steps, to control them, that it should be your way, well, in fact, this reform has been talked about for a long time, and in fact there have already been, let's say, attempts to make the center of government, what is the center of government, it's actually... the prime minister - the minister and his office around him, which will decide and write draft laws, solve current issues. the only thing that will be left to the ministries is the formation of politicians in their fields, so to speak, everyone

there is conciliatory, i don't know, vacations, salaries, everything will go to the level of the prime minister, and the formation of policy, for example, in education will leave. at the level of the ministry, this is not a new idea, some countries really live and work like this, maybe it is right, when you have a one-party or two-party system, political, when you have at least five to seven parties, to form such a government it is very difficult to make such a center, since you do not have a balance of political forces, i.e. each political force wants to have one or two of its ministers there, but if everything is decided by the prime minister, then... there will be no sense, let's say yes, compete for these positions ministers, then these ministers will actually turn into such directors of the department, so i do not believe in this reform, because the political will for it has never been there, and it is unlikely that it will be able to be neither in this political cycle nor in the next. thank you,

ms. yulia, mr. rostyslav, in the conditions when the prime minister of ukraine is shmyhal, de facto, and zelenskyi. because, well, zelensky leads a monopoly and, accordingly, the president's office probably has much more powers than the same prime minister denys shmyhal, whether these reforms are important or whether they will give reforms, some kind of impetus for this service to work in a different way, we mean the service of the prime minister, the service of the government, and the service that is responsible for... ensuring the functioning of various ministries, that is , to what extent these reforms can change the the order that exists in power, how the government is governed, who governs it, what decisions it makes and whether it is accountable or controlled

by the verkhovna rada, well, you know, the impression is that there is such a flight control center, called the office of the president with its five - six managers, and from there in fact... as it was said there, the development of policies, instructions, some instructions are coming, which the ministers are already trying to turn into some concrete solutions to the extent of their understanding, some more successfully, some less successfully, if someone's actions are not liked by the people, that's why the minister has problems, there are questions about what can be replaced in order to generate better ratings and better applause, well, if... seriously, this idea does not look realistic, and not only from the point of view of the political issues about which i spoke yulia, but there are also serious functional remarks, well, for example, in essence, the ministry of finance and the ministry of social policy often have completely

opposite views on the same issue, and this is naturally so, and the government must, in essence , seek a certain balance interests and influences, and if... such a brain center is driven under one policy, under the prime minister, under some one figure or under the office of the president, then this very important and valuable value of the government is leveled. to look for the best answer while balancing both professional and political interests, i.e such a reform will not improve the situation, on the contrary , in my opinion, it will worsen it, well, and the last element here, you asked in the briefing about the fact that someone wants to unify the ministry, separate the ministries, well, here it is fashionable to quote leonid kuchma about that it was already already. since the 19th year, we remember, ministries were united, ministries were separated, then united again, and

unfortunately, this did not bring any improvement, on the contrary, then we had to return to the ascendant state, so it would be better though abandon these experiments, and follow the path of democratic countries tested in the second world war, simply entrust the work of a professional government for the time of martial law and not get lost in its activities, but... instead, control it through the mechanisms of reporting to the parliament. thank you, mr. rostyslav, mr. nikita, here are your opponents, i will not say the opposition, opponents, they talk about the need for a government of national trust and that this could also be a good option for the servant of the people to divide not only the power, the powerful full of powers and responsibilities. why are you afraid? that well, for example, european solidarity or voice will , like you, not only have power, but also

be responsible for how they use this power? well, let me answer for myself, so i want to tell you that ideologically there is only one faction close to me in the verkhovna rada, this is the voice, with all due respect and long-standing relations with many members of european solidarity, ideologically i am certain of their... approaches there do not divide, especially as there are other factions of groups, although not all, that's why i, if you ask me personally, i have a very weak idea of ​​a unity government there, because ideologically i definitely don't unite with my colleagues, i can personally, please, no questions asked here, he and rostislav are standing together as well as with yulia. cleaning, that means, of ukraine from fsb agents in ryas, but ideologically, again,

if we take the positions of our factions, well, with a voice, i understand how to unite, and there on certain issues with european solidarity not so much, and that, to things, brings us back to talking about the center of government, i will be very sorry if it won't work for one simple reason, because we will always be a politically lame duck, because it can't be. so that in one government, even if there is a coalition, there are people who are there for, for example, state ownership of land, and others for the land market, or there are other issues that obviously divide certain factions of the group there, and when roslav gave an example about the ministry of finance and minsos, yes, roslav, i'm sorry, my friend, but i want to tell you that this is just a very good example, but exactly the opposite. because it is the ministry of finance that gives the final approval any law, and the ministry of justice is absolutely

powerless, the ministry of justice cannot approve anything, and this is not very normal, that is, it is not about equality, it is about inequality, and if we take approval from individual ministries and transfer them to the same center government, then there will be another conversation, and if a coalition is not formed that can provide ministers, well... ideologically close, so that everyone is really on the same track, as they say, then there will be no such coalition, and re-elections will have to be held , in bulgaria, for example, this may not be the best example, but but ideologically it does not add up, there will now be six elections in the last two or three years, in my opinion, in italy, we also know that a lot of bad things happened there often with governments, well, it means that society cannot, well, it cannot yet to decide who it... wants to see in the parliament or in the government and what we, and why should we

be afraid of this? through elections, elections are a form of public dialogue, public dialogue, ukrainian society has to come to some, well, understand, let's say, and if we criticize her ministry, friends, either please, you don't have to, because if i'm not mistaken, there is a ministry of civil service and tourism, well, in general. yes, so, either in britain , digital transformation was entrusted either to the ministry of youth, or to some other ministry, and this is only during the last five years, this is normal. process, colleagues, you should not think that somewhere in some democratic countries, that means immediately, that means, how, i don’t know, in some roman empire, although this is also a myth, that means that immediately, that means that there is such a pantheon of public administration, that’s all well, it's not true, you just don't need yourself to deceive and mislead the audience, democracy for that democracy, that it is a living

process with a very quick and quick decision-making that meets... the challenge of today, this is its weakness, but it is also its strength. that's all i can do for now. well , yes, when there is an established democracy, and when this democracy does not need any specific correction, and when there are no signs that in ukraine, or in the country, there are signs that one group is political, elected in the elections, but five years ago, and we understand that there will be no elections... yet, but that this group well, it is possible to be wrong about something, it is possible to do something wrong, and this is also a certain danger in this, because in the same great britain or in austria, i think that there is no such danger, and this is also a big question, in fact, as in the absence of elections, as in the absence

of elections, mr. nikita, how can citizens make adjustments, you say, they elect the verkhovna rada, they elect the president... well, stop, the verkhovna rada is already actually reviewing its powers and that's according to the law during the wartime, she has until the elections, before the next one, and how as a voter, i want to implement, i want, i want another government, for example, serhiy, let's, let's not go into, as they say, a thin flight, well, we want, we want, we want to stop the war, well, let's offer the katsaps, let's go somewhere with six months that means we recognize the entire occupation, we need to hold elections here, well, i'm not talking about elections, i'm saying that this tool is currently missing, if you 're talking about what society can adjust, society can't adjust now, look, serhii, there is media, there is civil society, there is, in the end there is western partners, that is, there are feedback links

that remain, and we are great, now here i am, so that i do not score myself. ether, yulia can also give a bunch of examples when due to pressure, or from our allies, or together with civil society, with ngos, rostislav can give a bunch of examples, it doesn’t work as well as i would like, but it works, and colleagues now they will definitely not let you lie that it is clear that we would, perhaps, each of us would not like that, but it is worth using the tools that are available, simply, well the main tool is the constitution, the main thing is that... the constitution is not violated in, for example, regarding the activities of tv channels, there was also no illegal shutdown of them, this is also, by the way, what we have observed during the last two years. friends, i am addressing our tv viewers, i will say that today we are conducting a survey, are you satisfied with the work of the government of denys shmygal, yes no, everything is quite simple on youtube, if you have your

opinion, write your opinion in the comments, if you watch us in tv broadcasts, get your hands on it smartphone. on the phone and vote if you trust the government, are satisfied with the work of the shmyhal government 0800 211 381, no 0800 211 382, ​​all calls to these numbers are free and please vote. another topic of this day is the so-called inauguration of the so-called president, the so-called putin. today the world is divided into two parts: a part of this world does not recognize the legitimacy of putin and did not come to... the inauguration, some representatives of the states came to the inauguration to the kremlin, the united states of america did not send its representative to the inauguration of the dictator putin on may 7, but continue to recognize him as the legitimate president of the russian federation, said matthew miller, a spokesman for the united states state department. let's hear what matthew miller had to say: we

definitely do not recognize those elections as free and fair, but he is... the president of russia and will continue to act in that role. ms. tapanova, what does illegitimacy mean, the non -recognition of putin's powers, will it have any consequences, or as the united states of america said, well, we are there, the elections are there some were, were not free and honest, matthew miller covered his soul a little, he did not say that these elections were held on the territory of another state, and this... is also a reason to talk about illegitimacy and about the non-recognition of putin's powers, why the united states of america , on which they are oriented, which are a marker for other states, did not say that putin is illegitimate. miss yulia? i think that the united states, like, for example, france, whose representative came to the inauguration, they are still trying to keep, you know, that

a small gap in the possibility of communication with putin and, you know, well, how is it possible to bring him to his senses, to his senses, but unfortunately, it is useless, they will understand it of course and absolutely you... i understand what you are saying serhii, it is not enough that these elections were in fact, well, falsified, as usual by putin, they were also held on our territory, on the occupied territory, so to recognize putin as a legitimate president, well, very much covered the soul of many countries, but they, you see, they still try to reach some kind of peace agreement, and including recognizing him as a legitimate president, because if they said that he is an illegitimate president, they would hardly be able to sit down... with him for any purpose of negotiations or even communicate at all. thank you, mrs. yulia. mr. rostislav, what, well, what consequences for ukraine and the world will this recognition

of putin as legitimate have? well, that is, a person who has an international criminal court warrant, that is, a war criminal, was sworn in today and became legitimate, well, in their understanding, and in the understanding of some of our western partners, legitimate. the president of the russian federation, what, what does it mean, what, what does it bring to the world? well, look, uh, the representatives of the main countries have repeatedly stated that they see the end of this war, through negotiations, to which ukraine should approach stronger, and for this ukraine should be helped, and russia should suffer the price of its aggression, so sanctions are applied, which should... limit russia's ability to wage an aggressive war, well, but, to be honest, the biggest such disprover of such the approach is putin personally, because he

continues the aggression, he holds various forums with religious figures, where he announces, where the so-called holy war is announced in ukraine, even today he signs decrees there, which for everything is good for russia, about how russia win the goals that are set on the battlefield, they absolutely do not correspond to any, even imaginary scenarios, according to which they would stop somewhere there, that is, this is an aggressor who will continue his conquest, and the only way to really stop it is to inflict a crushing defeat on him on battlefield, thrown out of ukrainian lands, and already then we can talk about something, and even better think about how to equip russia for... after its defeat in the war with ukraine, and the sooner the main players of the world come to such a scenario , the sooner this war will end and the fewer casualties will be

incurred. thank you, mr. rostislav, mr. nikita, but against the background of the partial recognition of the legitimacy, well, i don’t know, half-hearted i would say, of putin, although it is complete, the russian federation has taken a number of steps, well , in particular, regarding the wanted notice the president... and he is facing criminal cases there, there is no other way to say it, well , not only against zelenskyi, but zelenskyi is the president of ukraine, does this mean that the russian federation is not going to negotiate with president zelenskyi, well, instead, in order to receive notes from western countries that putin is illegitimate, russia turned this entire story against... president zelensky and now the information space is pumping that from may 20, 2024, they say zelensky will not be legitimate, there is nothing to do with him to agree whether

this means that putin will not accept capitulation from putin, capitulation from russia, zelensky will not accept, or zelensky will not, they will not sit down with zelensky at the transition table, about peaceful transitions, about which there is now a lot of talk and... it is predicted, a lot , very good questions, mr. sergey, i will start with the main one, so, well, we know that russia is, oh, i have a word on my tongue, okay, i will return to politically correct language, they are cowards, they did not declare an official war on us, they say that it's some kind of thing, so, but you have to see what they are they say through their propaganda channels, because they just... dare to say it officially, that is , this is a nation of cowards, that means a state of cowards, well, you understand what word is on my mind, it is on my tongue right now,

and it is absolutely true, absolutely true, that is, but the point is not that there they recognized, that is, they declared wanted our president, the russian orthodox church, there they called him to be hanged before easter, hanged the russian orthodox church, like a christian church, like a church, so it is very peaceful, to hang zelensky on on on so, branches, they announced it before easter, but no, look, friends, we have it. remember, they repeatedly declared the goal of this war to be the destruction of ukraine. the point is not whether they will talk with zelenskyi, they won't, they are not going to talk with ukraine at all, they say that there is no ukraine, period. so, the goal of this war is the destruction of ukraine as a state and the destruction of the ukrainian nation, well, that is, it has not been hidden for a long time, recently,

the last month or two. i think colleagues will correct me if i'm wrong, this it is simply open, that is, it is declared from all their public and media fields there. now, as for the recognition of legitimacy or illegitimacy, i completely, completely agree with yulia and rosyslav, i agree with every word, but there is one nuance, which, well, of course , cannot please us, the point is not that that they recognize or do not recognize. putin's thing is that they recognize the so-called russia, that 's the thing, that is, they are actually putin's, look, the fact that they did not come to recognize him as the elected president, it's just means that they state in this way that we do not consider you the president, what the hell kind of president are you, who elected you, what a farce this is, but they recognize russia as a so-called state and him as, well, it doesn't matter, dictator, what difference does it make, what is his

name there, then... that is, well, let's not forget, yes, that the world recognized the soviet union led by stalin in the 1930s, then the world recognized khrushchev, then the world recognized brezhnev and so on further, up to the collapse of the ussr, that is, the world recognized the ussr state, a criminal state, absolutely, bloody, tyrannical, but the world recognized this state, and accordingly, but the world did not care, well, you, well, well, we all... remember that there were elections in the ssr, too, and everyone voted for comrade brezhnev, so, well, that was a farce, but it was, well , it is clear that he was not recognized as the elected leader of the ussr, he was simply recognized as, well, the person who leads the ussr, that's all, and here it's the same story, that is, the problem is that they, despite what the so-called russia openly says, our goal is genocide, we want to kill as many ukrainians as possible and destroy them

altogether. erase the name of ukraine from history with maps, they continue to recognize this, this is, you know, the creation of a pseudo-state, a terrorist state, this is a problem. thank you, mr. nikita, and actually, one more small topic, forgive us for going through these topics so quickly, but they need to be discussed, and i think our tv viewers will also be happy to listen to more. discussion of one topic, these are the topics of public broadcasting, because in relation to public broadcasting, passions also flare up, flare up, public broadcasting can leave the telethon only news and expand its own broadcasting on the first channel, where now broadcast of the marathon, if it gets official permission to do so, the official release says, specifically this: the telethon is considering the possibility of expanding content production

by the public broadcasting team in context. marathon for the first channel of public broadcasting, as not a separate part of the public, important main information association of the wartime telethon edyni novyni, subject to the approval of such a possibility by the relevant state bodies, taking into account all the standards of the editorial policy of the public and capabilities of the country's largest network of correspondents across the country. before that, we saw how mariana bezugla, a deputy from the servant of the people, torpedoed, well... tried to prove that a public tv channel is a tv channel that eats a lot of money, that something should be done with it, and in general there is such an opinion that a public tv channel receives a lot of money, compared to the only telethon, you have to think about something like that, i would never mention mariana here, ladies and gentlemen, if this...