well, already seeing what is happening, that it needs to be changed somehow, the fact is that the flow of these very symbols and these paradigms that created empires is quite frequent, you see, we can also see fascist germany, the soviet union, how they sometimes used each other and passed symbols and narratives, and russia now behaves the same way, and in fact, what was done during the time... after the 45th year, that it was smooth from the day of victory to the moment of this, about which you say, we can translate will repeat, that is, a new symbol was created that showed only our own aggression, and everyone should be afraid of us, and we can really repeat to you what we want, this genocide, barbarism and murder, and we actually came to understand that we must it is to change, in fact, according to... historical memory and the truth,

which is, how, what happened. the fact is, well, the older generation remembers that there were quite a few of such veterans who came to the war, and nothing was celebrated for a large part of the time, that is, somewhere already in the moment of the arrival of this already kgbian, let's say concept and closure, this myth was created, which means a great victory, the appearance of these eternal veterans, who... it is not known how many years it should have been, the so-called, it is not known , where they served, were, and precisely the spread and growth of this st. george's ribbon, as a symbol, and actually, if not as a symbol of victory or memory there from the past centuries, actually as a symbol of this aggression, repetition, fear, here we are let's hang this gregorian ribbon so that everyone is afraid, that is how it started to happen and we began to understand it, and actually this is the turning point that was mentioned in the plot, how this tape became

the last drop of understanding that we must change and change all this, and aggressively and quickly, and at the visual level, first of all, because it is remembered the most and works most effectively. what about our ukrainian image, we understand that there is a ukrainian flag, there is a ukrainian coat of arms, there is ukrainian symbols, there are ukrainian heroes, the newest heroes and heroes of the second world war, but we still see that putin and him... they decided to follow, that is, they began to rely on resentment, and at the same time they began to rely on what, on the myth of the second world war, which sounds to them like a great patriotic war, that is, they are trying in this way, could not continue this here is the line that was in the second half, in the middle of the 20th century, how should we properly inscribe our history, our current identity and in general, how should we be, for example, rudiments, well

, ukraine was under the soviet occupation for about 70 years, primarily the school, it is the first institution let's say this, where the maximum efforts should be, after all, what russia is doing, that is, what the enemy is doing, it is the first time you see it, even the most terrible story is with the kidnapping of children, who will simply be put on this terrible conveyor belt of brainwashing, first of all the school , this... upbringing, and the actual upbringing based on those traditions, on this memory, that is, the history of our state, and against the background of all the events of the first and second world wars, by the way, we have a lot more loss, even from the first we turn to it less, by the way, we don't have it yet marterologist, you know that a large number of ukrainians took part in the first world war, well, in... in the ranks of

the austro-horarian army, a huge number, the russian state has its own list from that side, we do not have no name, we only have snipers, this is a small legion, which was later formed, and there is a list of who was there, we do not have it, it is obviously in vienna and in germany, it is in the archives, because people were very scrupulous besides, we don't have it, until now our scientists and the state did not pay attention to it, neither did everyone else. something else, and all this must be brought to such a well-argued, understandable explanation that, how and why, er, to explain, first of all, that the soviet union fought together with germany for two years, this is never emphasized, and where did 39- and, the 41st, it's almost two years, it was absolutely, it was one whole, one whole company, training, that is, german specialists in russia and so on, in us, and it was designed and created for us. such

an image that hey, the 41st year, a great war and a great victory, that’s all, no, now we’ll have the opportunity to join our journalist kateryna halka to our airwaves since the age of 14 ukraine has joined the european tradition of commemorating the second world war on may 8, on this day memorial events are usually held on the walk of fame in the capital and in the world war ii museum today the capital is a memorial to the fallen, katya, tell me. greetings, colleagues, greetings to viewers of the espress tv channel. so, we are now near the museum of the history of ukraine in the second world war. as you can see, here... there are no traditional tributes, that's right this is not the first year, i would like to note that this year, the day of remembrance and victory over nazism is celebrated in ukraine for the first time since independence, at the same time as many european countries, precisely on may 8, because previously we celebrated this day on may 9,

on may 8 was such an additional day of remembrance and reconciliation, but now these dates have been combined, note also that since 2015, after the beginning of decommunization and the war with russia , the term great patriotic war was removed from ukrainian legislation and it was forbidden to use soviet symbols for commemoration of the fallen. since then, we have started the tradition of red poppies, symbolizing bullet marks and the first moment of peace. it was here that the first minute of peace was traditionally celebrated here, heroes were honored here, the dead were honored, and even the motherland was wrapped in a wreath of red. poppies, however, today, as we can see, no special commemorations are held here, no events take place in the museum, due to the fact that a new war is going on in ukraine with russia, due to the fact that martial law has been introduced in the country, we do not have and an additional day off, namely may 8,

well, i will remind you that today is the 79th anniversary of the end of the second world war, this is a day. this is not the day of the winners, this is the day of commemoration of the dead, the fallen, those who suffered as a result of this terrible war, and i will note that according to the smallest estimates, at least 8 million ukrainians died then, i will also note that tomorrow, may 9 , we will celebrate a new holiday, europe day, so i consider it important to also remind that for ukrainians, the war is not a memory from the past, because it is precisely for... right now ukrainians and ukrainian women are still fighting for our right to exist and independence, this is the news as of now, so colleagues, i am passing the ether to you, thank you kateryna, kateryna galko was in touch with us, and rostyslav luzhetsky is in our studio, public figure, director

of the publishing house komora, well, our colleague kateryna just used, so to speak, such a formula, i would like you to reflect that this is not the day of winners, but why not winners? ukraine and ukrainians defeated nazism, laid millions of lives of ukrainians in order to to defeat nazism, that is, from the second side, well , maybe there was no particular choice, yes, because the majority of ukrainians who died in the fight against nazism served in the soviet, in the red army, this is such a difficult moment for us to be, well, why should we give up our ukrainian victory, the key story, how should we interpret it, how should we convey it to our society, on the other hand, we have another memory, this is the memory of the ukrainian insurgent army, so dozens thousands, hundreds of thousands of lives were sacrificed in the struggle for free ukraine, but in any case, ukraine was not in

the camp of the nazi axis states, i.e. ukraine was not together with nazi germany, ukraine was not with ustyshiv hungary, and so on and so forth, ukraine just... here is a telling example, it found itself between two fires, the largest, the most contemporary ones in the world, and was able, in principle, to this, the paradox of resistance, which surprised the whole world, here charles de gaulle, or others about the ukrainian insurgent army, which managed to resist two aggressive great empires, and understanding, at first it was difficult to understand how we could get independence in this vortex, and how we can defend ourselves. there was a small one that we thought that fascist germany would promote ukrainian independence, but it turned out to be a myth quite quickly and it was decided that this was the wrong way, well, we remember this story, well, hitler said that he did not need so so to speak, we

stopped at certain assists, and we stopped between two fires, and it is clear that it was necessary to drive out, as it were , fascist germany, but instead to conquer ukraine, that was the chance in the 18th year, when we understood it. there was a similar situation but there were many reasons why ukraine did not succeed at that time, you can reread it every time, so it was all wound up, imposed, you could do it, although the army was , as it were, we understand that... it was necessary to disband, each the kodats was torn, there were false theses, and everyone had their own bolshevik propaganda working, which appealed to the land, that is, free, well , some painful moment was chosen and any informational hole was filled with it, this was in the empire of that time in these possibilities. the second world war was also in this situation, and and it was difficult to get out of it, that is, a really huge number of people from a large... greater ukraine died, that's a lot and all the main military actions took place on our

territory and the main victims were ours, that is, we are all, all of this must be, you understand, visualized, that is in fact, we are talking about the visual, as artists, visualization, and the visualization is so planar, literally, it is the most effective, as you noted, but the last exhibitions, both historical and personal , take place with a parallel commentary on the era and... what happened then, and then , especially the younger generation connects and understands, whether we are even talking about a person, we do not understand, it is abstract quite often, well , in general, the soviet concept was that you should conduct everything in such a way that you do not understand what and what where did the greatness come from, here is volodymyr ilyovich lenin and all that, history, all this was admired, but recently i remember, a couple of years ago, the anniversary of lesya ukrainka, where er... what exactly happened during this period , what happened, what wars, what are these, and

you then tie, then you tie to, this to the person, to the person, his own reflexes, his works with what, and it all connects, and then everything falls into place, then it is harder to deceive, foolishness, that's what, what, what they are for, you see , you can say anything, but now russia repeats, turns over any terms, so use them. well, i'm still waiting for them to walk around and say that that's it, well , zetka is so self-righteous, a little more, so that it reaches that point, and the whole mass will say yes, that's how it was. nataliya popovych, entrepreneur, international expert on communications and social activist, founder of the consulting group wang philosophy, she is in touch with us, we will add her to our conversation, ms. natalia, we congratulate you, today we celebrate two such... two such important events, yes, it is a day of remembrance and reconciliation and victory day, for the first time we celebrate it on

the same day, well, actually we change even the design, yes, we change the perception, we change the symbolism of these days, how important do you think it is for society to get used to new, actually these attributes, these days, and what we must do in order to now to our younger generations and our future generations... still to put into their heads the correct symbolism of these days? and thank you very much, i am very glad to be with you today, it seems to me that it is extremely important to continue the efforts that we started at the time in 2014-15, when literally together with the symbolism of the red poppy, such a new, more aware country was sprouting in ukraine, krister, that is, when, if you remember, there were still st. george's ribbons around us,

there were a lot of symbols and monuments that reminded us of what was positioned before the great patriotic war, and accordingly we introduced new symbols of the red poppy, changed the name and decorations from the great patriotic war to the second world war, and in this way very clearly... were aware of the true history of the losses suffered by the ukrainian land, the acceptance of the war as a huge tragedy, accordingly the importance of this first hour of silence, which was observed for the first time in the 15th year, as the hour of silence of the second world war, when it ended, at the same time, unfortunately, almost nine years ago, that is, nine years ago in the 15th year was it is clear that such... such a slogan will never again, it has ceased to be relevant, because then the second, first phase of the russian

-ukrainian war was already underway, and history repeated itself, now russia is already carrying out this kind of russian fascism against ukraine, and accordingly it was introduced the then new slogan, we called it, we remember, we win, and i think it continues to be very relevant as a symbol. for ukrainians today, because our strength is in the memory, our strength is in the memory of our true history, that ukrainians already lost 6 million ukrainians in the previous world war ii and in various armies. and among the civilian population, and unfortunately, these terrible losses that we are suffering today, this is also because we are resisting against the will of a huge authoritarian country that is torturing us, so it is obvious that the introduction of the poppy, its distribution, the explanation children and future generations of this history, it is extremely

important, yes, well, but poppies are in any case attributes, yes, they are certain signs for the help of... which began to be commemorated died in the first world war, so this tradition is more than a hundred years old, but if, for example, we talk about the attempt of the russian federation to steal our victory from us, that is , the ukrainian victory, yes, because ukraine belonged and the ukrainian people belonged to the allied countries, who fought together with nazism, german and italian fascism, so there is a feeling that russia would like to steal this victory from us, at the time it stole, for example, the name rus, that is, which belonged specifically to the ukrainian people and the historical name which spread to our lands, but, as they say, with the light dust of their hands, they begin to replace certain concepts, and accordingly, how should we correctly fit our ukrainian

history into the european context, mrs. natalya, well, you know, you know, the european memory this must be greatly expanded, because victory for europeans was perceived in a different way, the european community, the european community really perceived, say, the victory in the 45th year as their own, including victory, and for europe the time of stability, prosperity, reconstruction the thing about germany and other affected countries is that ukrainians have a very important job... what we are doing now is to look at history very honestly and help our european friends see it in this way. unfortunately, the yalta agreement created the preconditions for prosperity and recovery for some, but for a large part of the european continent, for eastern and central europe, to which ukraine belongs, it was a time of enslavement of a large part

of europe, and in fact it is very important to talk about it like this and talk about the fact that russia appropriated the entire role of the soviet union in overcoming fascism, it recognized only itself as the main winner in the second world war, but at the same time it contributed to the strengthening of such a dogmatic ideological weapon, the propaganda arsenal of the russians regarding may 9, we can recall how many leaders of states even in recent years, they came precisely to putin's parades, to sit down, but it is very important, or ours are... partners understood and could remind russia, all his followers of putin, that including ukrainians, they were fighting with fascism, and the western allied nations were the armies of liberation, they brought democracy, long-term stability to europe, that is , while the soviet army was an army of occupation, and it enslaved hundreds of people and millions of people behind the iron curtain, so it is very important that

each nation can review the lessons of its own history and any on... that claims greatness, especially must question its past, unfortunately, we simply see that russia is not capable of doing this and continues to create so much suffering, and it goes because of this, in fact, the most shameful, most shameful crimes, and in the russian rhetoric that is still used in relation to the second world war, when they talk about the history of the second world war, they will never mention landley. from the usa, which enabled the soviet union in its last, last desperation to obtain weapons, does not mention the actual number of soldiers from various other soviet republics, including ukraine, who were sent to the front without protective equipment and were very often used as cannon fodder , and also systematic mass

crimes committed by this army against... enslavement, well, if at that time already occupied peoples, remained unrecognized, therefore it is very important not to ignore the war crimes of the past, so that we can also not ignore those war crimes with which we we want to bring russia to justice already in this war, and therefore we have to admit that by allowing such a division of europe, such a status quo, then in the second world war the west actually sanctioned the triumph of one authoritarian system over another, and we found ourselves. on the wrong side of this of the iron curtain, so i think that we all very much hope that, together with the ukrainians, who are now defending at the cost of their own lives, values... the value of freedom, the value of a free life, and these ideals, for which, for which our armed forces are now standing forces, which is understandable, and our

european partners can look at the second world war in this light. thank you, mrs. natalya, extremely important words, rostyslav luzhetskyi, an artist, public figure, director of the komora publishing house, is still in our studio, well, he just left we discussed certain points with natalia popovych, on the other hand, i would like to clarify yours. feeling, your reception, for example, of our inclusion in the pan-european context, yes, where we may not be able to reach, where perhaps we should speed up, i think that europe and the world need more information, apparently we say this all the time, and we it seems that yes, that's how everyone feels, unfortunately, no, uh, and people who travel with performances and are on other panels, well... can testify that there is a very weak awareness, and actually of this visual, of these pictures with these texts and with explanations, is very lacking, even in

the european parliament or something else, well, sometimes there are some, but it must be systematic, competent, this is what he heard about the number of ukrainians, realistically, who were born here and are native ukrainians, how many were accepted, how many died, and so on, it should be simply in numbers. visually, competently, effectively presented in the cygrah, as well as all this, the capture and creation of these marinetka states of the soviet camp after world war ii, the crimes that ms. natalya reminded of, the komora publishing house actually has a book, a woman in berlin, this is a terrible story of mass murders and rapes of women during the capture of berlin, memories, ugh, eyewitnesses of the journalist marta higen. well, there are testimonies, there are so many of them, enough of them, they just need to be collected and presented, and from our side as well, this is important, because europe

, after all, was under this informational assault of the soviet union and for and then to russia, and that's all coming to parades for the sake of it, that is, here is a cute empire, great russia, we won here and that's all, listen to what we say, then it is true, no, here are the events now. give the country a huge chance, a trump card, so that we can say about ourselves, reasonedly and competently about it, well, to manifest it, the most important thing is that we should demand attention to ourselves and the corresponding reflection, we should not be reckoned with again, how come we're there, we 'll give you sugar, just don't cry there, you don't have to do that, this... should be inscribed in the canon and understood, that's how we are european state, we are a member of this community, in fact it is already clear that it is so, it will not be otherwise, it is

a large european state with a large population, with history, with everything, and they also understand that, well, in proportion to france, the language there is germany, yes in terms of scale, in terms of resources and in terms of this history itself, which was like this, we, we are fighting the empire, now evil in everything. the world and we have the right to tell about ourselves, and what do you think, if very briefly, we literally have up to a minute of time, now we have a unique historical opportunity to declare it, because while the war is going on in our country, this is probably the moment when we should not waste this moment, it is unique, it is primarily for serious public speakers, it is primarily for the ministry of foreign affairs, where the entire consular spectrum should work on it. this must be realized, it is very important, because while we are going to be distracted by something, this fsb community around the world has already been working for

four years, they buy everything they see and do what they do not count on anything, absolutely, thank you, rostoslav luzhetsky now worked in our studio, an artistic public figure, the director of komora publishing house, and natalia popovych, an international expert in communication, was in contact with us. and public activist, founder of one philosophy consulting group. thank you, mrs. natalia and mr. rostislav. we thank and remind our viewers that today, for the first time, ukraine celebrates may 8 and the day of remembrance and reconciliation, the day of victory over nazism, we remember the lessons of history, we do not make these mistakes that were in the past, in the present, well, we draw conclusions , the most important thing is that we call on the world to draw these conclusions together with us, well, antin and i are saying goodbye to you for today, we'll see. tomorrow in this studio, our colleagues will continue today's such a defining day, so we will continue to update you on these important developments, so stay with espresso.

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in the judicial control program with tatyana shustrova. disciplinary cases are not timely. how does vrp sabotage system cleanup? exempts judges from responsibility, instead of dismissing them from office. but who turned out to be the record holder for closing cases of unscrupulous judges? the judicial mafia controls the entire judicial system. on thursday, may 9, at 5:45 p.m., watch the judicial control program with tetyana shustrova on tv. may 8, the day of remembrance of the second world war, of the memory of millions of ukrainians who fought, of millions of ukrainians who survived and millions who did not survive that war, never worked again, but we believe in our victory and memory let's meet all our heroes.

may 8, the day of remembrance and victory... over nazism in the second world war. it's 4 p.m. in ukraine and a news release comes to your attention. on the espresso tv channel in the studio of iryna koval. i welcome all viewers to the most important events. the draft law on the mobilization of convicts was adopted in the verkhovna rada. people's deputies informed about it. the relevant decision was supported by 279 people's elected officials. therefore, the document allows prisoners to be released for military service under a contract. however, this does not apply to those convicted of aggravated premeditated murder, sexual violence, terrorism and.