chemical attacks, how the ukrainian military can protect itself from such actions by the russians, how dangerous substances russia uses and what ukraine can do about it, talk about it. on the bbc live from london, i'm yevgenia shytlovska. let's start with the fact that the use of chemical weapons in conflicts is a violation of international law, in particular the geneva conventions. but what are chemical weapons? the list of prohibited substances is determined by the organization for the prohibition of chemical weapons, and russia and ukraine are members of this organization. participants are obliged not to develop, no stockpile, do not use chemical weapons. but russia is accused of...

using one of these banned substances against the ukrainian military at the front, namely chlorpicrin. it is a world war i-era asphyxiant, the united states said in early may, and russia is using this chemical weapon as a method of waging war to gain an advantage at the front. what kind of substance is it, how does it work, about chlorine picrin , retired colonel of the british army hemige de briton gordon told. he is one of the leading ones chemical weapons experts. in fact , chlorpicrin is known to people as a tear gas, its effect as a suffocating substance makes breathing very difficult, causes incredible pain in the eyes or in areas of the body where there is a mucous membrane or that have contact with water. it causes a natural reaction, makes people flee, because the best antidote for it is fresh air. around the world, it is used by police and forces fighting mass riots and crowd control. but unfortunately it is also used in wars and it is illegal. in wars because

it is very similar to chemical weapons and is actually illegal under the chemical weapons convention. and earlier, the ukrainian military claimed that russia widely uses two other chemicals in the war: cs, chlorabenzalmalononitrile and cn chloracytophenone. formally, these substances are not considered chemical weapons, they are chemical means of fighting riots. they are toxic, the russian military uses them in grenades that... land on ukrainian positions, this is what one of the soldiers who survived the chemical attack said: there were infantry positions drone launchers, it's very similar to a pepper that tears with pepper sprays, it's not deadly, but it's very disruptive and knocks you down a lot, well, it's not inconvenient to work with it, if only a little. you don't smell it, well, i

didn't really feel it on myself, because i act quickly against gas, but i don't know, who knows how the pepper choked someone, that's about the same feeling. how large-scale are these attacks? the general staff of the armed forces of ukraine declares that russia is increasingly using dangerous chemical substances during april, ukrainian ones. the military recorded 444 such cases, the most since the beginning of the full-scale war. in total, over two years, the russian military has carried out almost 2,000 such attacks. according to the armed forces of ukraine, at least 500 soldiers have sought medical help due to russian chemical attacks, and one died of suffocation last february. the kremlin officially denies that it uses dangerous chemical substances in the war, on the contrary, it blames ukraine for this. there is still a lot of

evidence that it is russia that uses such means. in particular, last year in russian state television had a story in which a military man told how such k-51 cheromukh grenades were dropped against the armed forces of donetsk region. these are not chemical weapons, but they are prohibited for military use. observers from the british royal institute of defense research drew attention to this at the time. my colleague and i are talking more about how russia uses such weapons in war. bbc correspondent oleg chernysh is with us. oleg, i congratulate you, you have been researching this topic for a long time, chemical weapons, chemical substances, which do not officially belong to the prohibited substances, how dangerous they are and how russia uses it, congratulations, you correctly pointed out that there is such a certain gray area here, or such unclear definitions, indeed, the convention on the prohibition of chemical... weapons also prohibits

their use in the military in the action of these lachrymatory substances cn and cs, well, in general , all the so-called means. to combat the violation, at the same time, in the lists where there is a list of chemical substances that are prohibited in general, these substances are not there, but there are, for example , chloriprin, and such a situation arises that formally, the tear gas grenades used by the police to fight riots there are often used on the battlefield, but they seem to be prohibited at the same time, and there is no ... responsibility for their use, as we understand it, while the so-called real chemical weapons, which is again in the lists, in the lists of the organization of the prohibition of chemical weapons, it is very , very difficult to detect, that is, even the same chloe picrin must be detected by an expert of the organization

of the prohibition of chemical weapons, that is, simply statements that one of the parties used it it is not enough, but in this situation, the uncertainty of uncertainty is trying to act, and russia is trying to act, which, as you rightly pointed out, is increasing the number of uses of grenades, tear gas and at the same time declaring that it does not use any chemical weapons, well, at the moment this is the situation, about the danger of this weapon, you have already said, it causes suffocation, it forces a person to get fresh air and at the same time actually leave the position he is using. the enemy is actually doing so, i.e. the russians drop grenades and the ukrainians are forced to leave their trenches and which, in principle, are often captured by the enemy. well, the general staff of the armed forces, it just recorded this increase in the number of such attacks, and the ukrainian military says that russia is purposefully using such

chemicals, oleg, you just recently spoke with the head of the department of radiological chemical biological protection, let's hear what he said about it , i think that... technologies, they are from the distant soviet times of cncs, of course obtained in production conditions, of course, maybe there is someone who can do it at home, here the question is not that, it must be put into the appropriate grenade, we have the k-51 grenade and the rgvo grenade, which are most often used today, and it is in the rgvo that we will... put this substance there and launch it into the production process and issue troops, i think that they do it officially, and it's not all done in

artisanal conditions, it's not kulibin, on which , in principle, russia can rely there, that someone went there on vacation, did something to himself, no, it's real. real samples, we have relevant materials, it is still documented and there are relevant photos, the relevant samples, which were handed over for examination, are production packaging that is absolutely crazy and everything else, this is not a bushcraft, ugh, this is a comment by serhii pakhomov, oleg, what should the ukrainian military do, how should they protect themselves from such chemical attacks, well actually... methods of protection have been known for a long time, the most important thing is a gas mask, well, it should always be at hand so that the military can quickly put it on and not breathe in this gas, and experts and doctors

advise not to touch your face with your hands or use a damp cloth for this, also, immediately after the attack, it is necessary to find shelter and at the same time... not to be in the fresh air near the epicenter of the attack, which, as we understand, is quite difficult, but at the same time, if there is an opportunity to take shelter in some building, it is also necessary to do this, these it would seem such simple advice, they can in principle even save the lives of military personnel, as you already noted, one of the ukrainian military personnel died during such an attack, precisely because he actually suffocated in his trench, so what is known about this? case, probably oleg, you are not, in fact, there is not much information about this case, yes, yes, in fact, there is not much

information about this case, and we only learned about this fatal case during the interview. with mr. pakhomov, er, it was not reported about him before, er, and actually, it was more the exception than the rule. usually, uh, the military that comes under attack. chemical, with these tear gas grenades, they survive, receive minor injuries and, in principle, do not require long-term treatment, but this fatal case, it was rather an exception, and there may have been a combination of some other diseases in this soldier, who died, unfortunately. and oleg, you already mentioned that it is difficult to establish exactly which substances were used, but can you explain in more detail how this analysis is done in order to understand which substances you... prohibited, not prohibited? well, this is a rather

difficult procedure, as i already mentioned, help is needed here from the technical secretariat of the chemical weapons defense organization, ukraine has already applied to this organization, there were more than 20 applications, but was such an obstacle that a treaty that would allow these to arrive. technical specialists of the organization to ukraine and take soil samples on the spot, and so. somehow , this agreement was signed last year, but was ratified by the parliament only a few weeks ago, at the end of april. that is, now only ukraine has received the legal ability to invite to its territory specialists who can take the necessary samples and already determine exactly whether it has been used. chemical weapons are prohibited from the prohibited lists, or they were only the eyes

mucilaginous grenades, it is very important to establish exactly what russia used, since we understand that they could even be new chemical compounds, toxic substances that are not yet known, we can recall the story with novichok, which russia also used, he did not it was known how dangerous the substance was, it was used in britain, oleg, thank you, and if you want to learn more about this topic, i highly recommend reading oleg's article on our website bbc.ua , russian chemical attacks in ukraine, how dangerous they are, how the west reacts to them. according to such title, you can find an article by my colleague oleg chernesh on the internet. are such attacks a conditional red line even at the beginning of russia's full-scale invasion of ukraine, us president joe biden said that putin would pay if he used chemical weapons. the united states had already announced sanctions against several russian companies and organizations when it said russia

had used the banned chloropicrin. and returning to the question of how the ukrainian military can protect itself against such weapons, here is what the british columnist hamish de breton says gordon. this is a gray zone, a zone of ambiguity in which the russians play. president biden stated that the use of chemical weapons would result in a direct response from the us government. but the us also said the context in which it might be used is important. as far as chemical weapons are concerned, this is the least dangerous and least toxic end of the conventional scale, and even so, the use of this gas is incredibly effective, mainly because the ukrainian forces do not have good gas masks, they leave positions for 5-10 minutes to try to recover from the gas, and the russians at that point use conventional weapons, attack and capture those positions, and many kilometers traveled by the russians... in the last few months have been lost to the use of this illegal weapons. these toxic chemicals

only work for a few minutes, a maximum of 10. but now the problem is that the gas masks that the ukrainians have are all soviet and they don't work. few people know, but britain is the leading producer of the most high-quality gas masks in the world. we supply them to the us army, the british army, and most nato countries. therefore, i assume that it would be relatively simple and easy for britain to solve this one. problem, by providing the ukrainian armed forces with effective british gas masks, they would render these illegal weapons ineffective on the battlefield and would not give the russians the advantage they currently have. well, this concludes our issue, subscribe to our pages in social networks so as not to miss the most important news, we are on facebook, instagram and tiktok, on youtube you can watch our episodes if you suddenly missed it on the air. subscribe, comment on our page. i say goodbye to you , next time watch our episode on monday at nine, good luck.

greetings, friends, live on the espresso tv channel, the second part of the verdict program, my name is serhiy rudenko, and today we have a journalist... club, and today we will talk about such things. putin's fifth presidential term, the coronation of the kremlin dictator, as an attempt to legitimize his power, what threats it poses for ukraine and the world? kubrakov is leaving the cabinet, one of zelensky's closest allies is no longer

needed by his team. what government reform is planned in the office? democracy above all else, war changes the political values ​​of society, why do ukrainians no longer believe that a strong leader is more important for the country than a democratic system? throughout our broadcast, today we ask you the following question: do you agree that democracy is more important for ukraine than a strong leader? yes, no, everything is quite simple on youtube if you have your own opinion a separate one, please leave it in the comments under this video, and of course , subscribe to our youtube and facebook platforms, where you can now see us live on these platforms as well, i want to introduce today's guests of our studio, these are my colleagues, andrii yanitskyi, journalist of the tv channel, andrii, congratulations, and kateryna nekrecha, rfe/rl journalist,

kateryna, i congratulate you, thank you for joining our broadcast, i congratulate you. colleagues and greetings viewers of espresso. thank you katerina. well, colleagues, since we ask ours tv viewers and viewers on whether they agree that democracy is more important for ukraine than a strong leader. let's try to find out what you think in the format of a blitz poll. andrew? i think that , after all, the question about the leader of democracy is strangely posed, because all ukrainians should be strong leaders, well, at least in each, in each. the community in every city should have leaders of public opinion, leaders, activists, mayors who are elected, after all, we have passed that stage of decentralization, and when democracy is opposed to a strong leader, uh, well, it's not about the leader, it's about the dictator, it's about some authoritarian leader, the leader is usually not

one, there are several of them, and one leader within the country leads. other leaders, i took it that way, thank you andrii, kateryna, well , it seems to me that our last history there for 30 years shows that it is probably cool when there is a balance, on the one hand, because to lead ukrainians and just tell them what to do yes or no, no matter who the leader is, in time it will still be us, let's say in the elections, well now because of the war, later it will be the one, but that's not less or in elections. whether by their dissatisfaction or anti-ratings, it will be seen that the actions of this or that leader, politician, they are not satisfied with something, and therefore it seems to me that ideally it should be a balance, and of course, according to the characteristics of all of us from you, then you probably just don’t need a hard hand, although if you look at the leaders of all political parties during all the years

of independent ukraine, those parties were called by the name of specific politicians, and this is so... important for ukrainians, so it is probably the key to success in the balance of this, well, we had them leadership parties, and there were quite a few of them at one time, there were their own leaders, headliners, who actually pulled the whole list, even when there was no name, for example, the servant of the people party, everyone understood that it was a leadership-type party, where leader zelenskyi and even more, most of the deputies who came to the verkhovna rada of ukraine, these were also people who... were not anonymous, but passed, as they joked at the time, on the passport of one person, volodymyr zelenskyi. so, why are we actually asking about democracy, about a strong leader, because the results of sociological data of the kyiv international institute of sociology led us to this survey, they show that ukrainians have changed their opinion about democracy in recent years, now

they believe that a democratic system is more important for ukraine than a strong leader. if in october... of the 20th year, 54% of respondents answered that for ukraine a strong leader is more important than a democratic system, and 31% answered about the priority of democracy, then in december of the 23rd year, on the contrary, 59% answered that for ukraine a democratic system the system is more important, and only 32% spoke in favor of a strong leader. andrei, why could this correlation of these data occur, well, it is quite serious, if three... is two and there 54 is about a third, well, this is a classic electoral cycle, when the president, who was just elected, has faith in him big and... of course, at that moment in the 20th year, ukrainians still hoped that their hopes for zelenskyi would come true, and in

addition, people voted for various reasons, we remember that election campaign of zelenskyi, when nothing concrete it was promised, and everyone saw someone in him one's own, one's ideal, and first of all, some new face that will replace the old one. but already in recent years, when it became clear what trends there are, that a new face is hiding behind a new face, including old politicians, it became clear that procedures, and democracy is a procedure first of all, procedures work better, than faces, faces change, but the procedures remain, well, of course, since we are talking about... a strong leader, about democratic procedures, we cannot help but mention that during the war, the elections to the verkhovna rada of ukraine before and the presidential elections will not take place,

it seems that everyone here is in agreement, well, at least with the verkhovna rada clearly, there the legislation provides for this, there is no decision of the constitutional court regarding the presidential powers, but we also understand that the next president will come to replace the current one, when there is one. .. possibility, that is, when the presidential elections will be held, but the russian federation is now emphasizing that from may 21, 2024, zelenskyi may be illegitimate, while the minister of justice of ukraine denys malyuska in an interview with the bbc assured that the president of ukraine zelenskyi will not lose his legitimacy after the end of his five-year term of office, that is , on may 21, 2024, let's hear what... the minister of justice said? no, he will not lose his legitimacy. the powers of the president continue until the election of the next one. but, uh, well,

many, many norms of the constitution are formulated in such a way that whoever wants to find, uh, something to find fault with or on which to build some theory from the language, he will find it. so definitely expect a lot of noise and shouting, ah, especially based on what the authors... the drafters of the constitution had little faith in the realism of a full-scale war with the participation of ukraine and therefore behaved quite clumsily with regard to the relevant norms that are written in the constitution, well, at a time when the very norms of the constitution that denys malyuska complains about are not fully written , or there are certain questions to them, obviously then he acts as an arbiter. the constitutional court, because only the constitutional court has the right to interpret the norms of the basic law and give certain verdicts. katerina, in your opinion, why the presidential team did not go, well, in such

a traditional way, there is a constitutional court that interprets the constitution, moreover, the question of legitimacy, further legitimacy of zelenskyi could simply be fixed by a decision of the constitutional court and shown to everyone, including not only ukrainians, but also leaders western states, because in principle russia uses this and tries to torpedo our western partners and say: listen, you will give weapons there, and there the president has already reached the end of his powers and in general, as he says lavrov, we, we will not be at the negotiating table with zelensky at all these dates after may 21 , 2024, because, as the kremlin says, he is nobody to us. well, in principle, we understand that for russia the arguments are not there... what they are in fact is also unimportant, so any situation from a propaganda point of view can be twisted, here we can mention that in gur, for example, they have been reporting for a long time that

there is a maidan-3 special operation there, or whatever they call it, that is, that there is a certain information wave, a threat, we now in principle see as it works in several aspects, the topic of the illegitimacy of the president of ukraine is developing, there it is developing very strongly. a negative view of the work of tsc there and the distribution of all such scandalous videos, for example, and there are such weak points. it is difficult to say why the president's office does this and not another way, perhaps because i am not a lawyer here, but with the experts with whom we talked, it seems that, legally, the question of legitimacy or illegitimacy does not stand, maybe it would be worthwhile to communicate with ukrainians, with the population, more broadly, more precisely and to emphasize this, although it seems to me that the greater part, everyone who lives in our

state, understands. realities, the war and the fact that it is really impossible to hold elections there, if there are legal factors, and the president cannot leave his post, and until another president is elected there, and legally it is normal, then it is possible, if there is distrust in society, then it is somehow worth going to such more significant, let's say, factors, and, but if this is enough, for argumentation, and the ukrainians have the trust of the international community, just as well... doubts that the president zelensky is not illegitimate, so it is possible, so the only question is how russian propaganda will spin it. well, russian propaganda, as always, lies, and well, it is clear that their goal is completely different, that is, not to record the filigree or legality of this or that decision, although, well, in this situation with the kss, it seems to me that there was a different, different fear, that the constitutional court will make some kind of decision, which will be...

not entirely acceptable, or, let's say, the absence of a decision of the constitutional court allows, without problems talk about the legitimacy of president zelenskyi, and it is possible in this situation, maybe it is better, although i am a supporter of the legislative procedures there and the correctness of the decisions regarding the constitutional court, although, although, if we recall the same leonid kuchma, he was also there in the early 2000s years of decisions of the supreme court. regarding the second term of kuchma, because according to the constitution of 1996, the president did not have the right to hold the office of president twice, and now this rule is in effect, but kuchma was elected in 1994 before the adoption of the constitution of 1996 for the first time, well, they are on early 2000s decided to count how many presidential terms leonid danylovych served and it turned out like this.

that if before the adoption of the constitution there is one term, after its adoption the first one too, and then the second one is possible, but the political situation there developed in such a way that kuchma had to agree to the fact that in 2004 he had to leave office, because of the tape scandal , and the murder of georgy gangadz, there were many things that simply did not allow him to take advantage of this decision of the constitutional court, but andrii, in this story, of course, when... russians are downloading this story from legitimacy or illegitimacy of zelenskyi, obviously ukrainian propaganda should be more active, not only diplomacy and propaganda, to pump the topic of putin's illegitimacy, because we see how the so-called inauguration of the so-called president, the so-called putin, took place on may 7, and we see that the world, part of the world or delegated its representatives, six european states were represented there or

made a statement. that the elections were not completely free, but we recognize that putin is at the head of the russian state, are we enough told the world, and does the world want to hear it, that putin, starting from may 7, 2024, is a self-proclaimed president, that he is a usurper of power, that he is a person who commits war crimes and that is recorded by the international criminal court, and... but at the same time, this is a person who conducts elections in the occupied territories of a foreign state and gives out these data as part of his victory, undoubtedly, we feel this the most, and it hurts us the most in countries that are far from russia, citizens that are far they live from russia they don't feel this, and for them the imitation of the russian elections is, well, equal to... you

elections that they hear about from other countries, that's why russian propaganda is in a winning position here, really, when it says that the ukrainians did not hold the elections, but we conducted, and for people who do not go into details, it sounds convincing to them, but the western elites, of course, they know and understand the situation, including with legitimacy. or the illegitimacy of the russian president, the question of why some western countries sent their representatives to him inauguration, lies not only in the plane of its legal legitimacy, but also in the actual military morale of russia in nuclear weapons, which russia...