men, you constantly hear terrible screams, and for the first few days these screams simply stop your heart, in the cell there is 24-hour video surveillance of you, you have to stand from where you are from 6:00 in the morning to 10:00 in the evening, you are not allowed to sit down, you have to push that bag on head, as soon as somewhere here... the door, or they just knock, knock on the door, you don't see the sun, you don't see the sky, because the windows are painted with white paint, they beat you if you do something wrong, or stand in a corner under this camera, or once i just couldn't help myself, it was impossible. to stand already, and i climbed on this one

the upper bunk and i were simply thrown from there, the punishment can also be put in a glass, the so -called, it is very tight, such a corner is closed by an iron door, you cannot breathe, you cannot move, and you can stand like that, you lose time, your body is not for you on... lies, they can do anything , anything with you. then you were brought to the pre-trial detention center in donetsk, right? yes, after 50 days i was transferred to the donetsk sizo, and you know, when i went there, i was even happy, i thought that, well, there can't be such conditions in the sizo as in isolation, i can't even imagine. i couldn't help myself

in the 201st century, people can live like this, exist like this, because this is not life, and political prisoners were kept together with criminals, i was placed in the largest cell in terms of the number of people, but it was very small, and when you stand, there is simply no city there, and the attitude towards you, because these criminals, they were mostly women, they were in the so-called militia, and when they receive you in the cell, they ask under which article, under which article you were brought, and they know that there is already an article on extremism, on espionage, on terrorism, and when you call they immediately put a stamp that one more drop appeared in the chamber and the corresponding relationship. ms. lyudmila, please tell me

about these torture camps, these so-called sisos, the treatment of women is different from the treatment of men, you know, i have not experienced this, and it does not matter if someone thinks that if it is a woman, then it is not so they beat, they beat like that, if they think that if... a woman is not tortured like that, they are tortured like that, there is no difference, and i understand how hard it is there and how hard it is for men, but i want to emphasize that most of the women who are being tortured for years, in these in prisons, in these torture chambers, they are mothers, and besides the physical suffering, besides the fact that they lose their health, they lose...

that precious time of communication with their children, i saw women there and talked to them, who they didn't see children for three or four years, they didn't see small children, one woman, i already told about her, she was detained, her son was four years old, which means she didn't see her child for 3 years, the other was natalka, her daughter was arrested when she was young. years, natalka was arrested in the 19th year, so you understand, this girl, this the woman is still in captivity, i know that she has already been brought from donetsk, brought to rostov, since the 19th year the person has not seen or heard anything about her two-year-old daughter, another woman, sveta, she was also arrested in the 19th year, were arrested in front of their eyes. small children,

the youngest daughter was four years old, they simply searched in front of these children, they took away the headphones of... even children, children's, and they threw the mother in the car in front of these children and took her away, this child, then they told me , ran, fell, got up again, ran to beg to let my mother go, from 19 to now, this girl's mother is still in captivity, and it just breaks the heart of these women, it breaks my heart, because... i heard them cry for your children, how they are suffering, what did you feel these days, what were you thinking about, did you hope that it would all end well, these days, what do

you mean, these days that you were in captivity, you you know, at first, uh, i couldn't believe at all that this was happening, no, i couldn't believe that it was... true and that it wasn't some kind of dream, then i they told me that my relatives submitted me for exchange, and a lawyer came and said that i must agree to all charges, sign everything, and then, as soon as possible , the trial will take place, i will have a verdict, and then the exchange will take place, because my relatives submitted me for exchange , and it gave me such confidence, well, okay, i'll be fine. and the trial would have been sooner, but it seems to me that this was the revenge of the investigator, due to the fact that i was still taken out of isolation and transferred to donetsk in the pre-trial detention center. and there was simply no investigation, and once every six months an investigator just came and forced

to sign blank letters, and after a year the hope for this exchange was already lost. two years later , i was already hysterical, i shouted that i should be sentenced, even for life, but let the trial take place, because when there is a verdict, you are already taken to the colony, and in the colony you can at least go outside and to walk the earth, and not to sit in that cage, not leaving it at all, not to see the sun, not to see the sky, because you are simply not taken out, and then, when the pregnancy started. staff war i after a while very high in this cell there was a window, and when you go to the second bunk, to the second floor, you see what is going on outside, and we saw a

lot of prisoners of war, and thanks, they were with bags on their heads, they were beaten, i remembered exactly how that's how they drove us in this isolation, you don't... see where you're going, you fall, they beat you, they force you to get up, and it was scary, and i understood that now the first thing is to release the military, and that's how it happened very slowly, but it was happening, and the hope that this release would happen, after all, it was already almost lost, the only thing i wanted then was for... that trial to take place, for me to be transferred at least to a colony. international organizations like them, do they have any influence at all on what happens to the prisoners, or did they come out on you maybe while you were there? you know,

this is also a very painful topic, because now we are already talking with international representatives, representatives of international organizations, with representatives of the embassy. with the ambassadors of other countries in ukraine, or on some foreign trips, i always appeal that if there is no opportunity right now, just now to take and release our prisoners, then let's put some pressure on the international red cross, on other humanitarian organizations so that humanitarian aid reaches our prisoners, but once in three years there was... only aid from the red cross in donetsk already sizo, and these were very small packages with hygiene products, the most necessary, but they were distributed not only to ukrainian civilian prisoners, political prisoners,

prisoners of war, they were given to the entire prison, including criminal criminals, including militiamen, who for criminal offenses there... and there just wasn't enough of this little package for everyone, and we were forced to divide even this bar of soap into two parts so that... there was enough for everyone, but that was once in three years, i know that after our exchange, such help has never been received, and i know the need there is for these hygiene products for women, and this is not normal, there are very big problems with drinking water, in general with water in donetsk now, and it already happened in the 21st year, and women are given just... from some kind the river is a pond for all needs, 1.5 liters

of water per day, is not taken to the bath or shower, and women are forced to drink this dirty water, if there are no transfers, if relatives do not transfer some water there for drinking, and wash and wash just above the hole in the field, which performs... so to speak, the toilet and the shower room at once and for the artist dishes for everything it is just a dirty very smelly hole in the field right in the cell how were you fed you know what to call what was distributed there as food, well no you can and even when transmissions were prohibited, there were none at all

no external help, well, the only thing that could be eaten was to cut off a small piece of bread, which they bake there, and somehow use it, it was just garbage, it was a very dirty stew, some kind of dirty, frozen thousands of times. the fish is already rotten and it is simply not cleaned, not washed, it is covered with water, it is barely boiled and is distributed together with this water, it is impossible not to look at it, not to breathe in this smell, well, it is not good to eat, madam lyudmilo, maybe you could express some of your own advice? ukrainians who have a risk to be captured by the russians, how do you advise

yourself to behave there? you know, first of all, i really don't want anyone to end up there, but i understand, and i know that even now there in the occupied territories , civilians continue to be arrested, for any kind of resistance, forget any, to what they see as the occupiers , a russian is not like that... a look, not a word like that, and this, i would not like this to happen, but it is happening, for those, if it has already happened, not to lose hope, but to know, just know now, what is being fought here all of ukraine, and there will not be a single minute, not in i don't have peace, not others, until our people... will be released, no matter how scary it is, don't show this fear of yours, because they really

want to break, they will be very happy if they see that you are afraid of them, no be afraid, and know that they are fighting for you, this is the knowledge that they are fighting for you in the free territory of ukraine, that they know and remember you for you, it does not give you strength, i know that... the period that you were in captivity, do you know what actually happened in donetsk and other temporarily occupied regions territories, of course, someone new came to the cell all the time, and if it was even a person who came to the cell of a murderer for criminal offenses, or for drugs, for selling drugs, they... told what was happening in freedom, in the occupied

territories, not you can even combine it, but we also knew about it, and plus we still had tvs in the cells 24 hours a day, but russian or local television, it worked 24 hours a day, and 90% of this television consisted of... so-called informational propaganda various programs, and understanding all the lies that these programs... told, showed, nevertheless, analyzing, watching one and then another program, you found some drops of truth there, because this hebel message he sent for russian television, he turned out to be very necessary when they said that for

propaganda you need 10% of the truth in order to make 90% of lies on this truth. we searched for this 10% of the truth and listened, sought out and somehow tried to analyze whether you underwent any rehabilitation after liberation from captivity, what helped you to recover? you know, unfortunately, i did not have enough time for normal rehabilitation, and at that time in the 22nd year for... civilian prisoners released from captivity, there was no such state rehabilitation program, unfortunately, it is just being created now, but i believe that as soon as our civilians are released, albeit the first ones, we will find an opportunity to provide them with this rehabilitation. we were dealt with by psychologists, but they were

voluntary, charitable foundations, and it was... for a very short time, and now we we understand, i understand that psychological help is needed, that it should be long-term, that it should be more focused on each case, and we are working on it with other organizations, with other charitable foundations, giving our advice, cooperating and developing some. .. pilot programs, i hope that in the near future it will also be on the level, on the normal level for providing such assistance. ms. lyudmila, i want to ask you about the reasons why you ended up in polon, well, about your active activities on

territories of the temporarily occupied donetsk region. as far as i know, you have been helping out for several years. and please tell me your story? yes, i found out that this children's boarding school was disbanded in the 14th year, and i just went to see and see what the needs were. what are the needs, and i saw a lot of children, you distributed them to families who were unable to support them, and at that time these grandmothers or aunts or relatives did not receive any financial assistance, neither for these children nor

pensions, because it is precisely this period when no it is clear that only this payback is happening. tion took place, nothing was renewed, and the children were simply starving, i told about it to my friends here in kyiv, i wrote to them about it, and one of my friends, she is taking a risk, taking a very big risk, this is journalist olya musafirova, she is almost our territory was completely occupied, there was some movement of equipment, some... mobile then there were still roadblocks and they were very dangerous, because i did not understand who was standing at those roadblocks, i mean the occupation of the occupiers, but she came, brought some toys before the new year 2015, and we went together to these

children, collected them at school, and she was also shocked. appearance of these children, and then we had the idea that she would collect used things for these children among her acquaintances through facebook, we wrote down what needs, what sizes, dimensions are needed, and sent all this to mariupol, and i already across the demarcation line, she left, took these things, took them to the children, also bought some there that she could afford. foods, vitamins, and we took care of them in this way children from the 14th year to the 19th year to my year. detention, tell me, please, in the spring of 2014, was there a feeling that

some terrible changes would come now, no, no, even then it would have been strange if someone had said that this would happen, probably no one would have believed , i think no one believed in it. not here in kyiv, not in donetsk, not in novoazovsk, and i saw that a lot of russians were moving across the border line, coming, holding some kind of rallies, generally incomprehensible people coming, but i thought that all this was under control of the authorities, that the local law enforcement officers, sbushniks, they also look after this. and there were even several times when rallies were held in our town and the so-called e were held, people,

communists, came from rostov, and i approached and tried to ask these people something, and the police stood in the bushes filming, but did not interfere, it seemed to me, that... it has to fall apart somehow, and of course, there were a lot of promises for and these promises were directed, and this propaganda was aimed at the 60+, 50+ generations, and these promises that ukraine does not need you, but we will come , and we will have different arrangements, you will have... a different salary, you will have a different pension, and it was aimed at these people, and some, indeed, some fell for it, that's true. and there was

information that your colleagues actually passed you in the 19th year, is that true? yes, i saw that a few years after the arrest, they finally decided to sort it out somehow. they brought this case against me and let me sign very quickly on every page, because they had to shape it all, and i saw four denunciations from people, two of them are my colleagues at work, one person, he worked at school, and one person i... i don’t know, that is, among these four, two people were these former colleagues, what do you think, why, why

were there traitors among your colleagues, why did people fall for russian pension, why our security forces, some of them went over to the other side, unfortunately, not only some of the security forces went over to the other side, and it’s a pity, as for the others, you know, i had the first moment when i saw who exactly wrote , a very big insult, especially to one woman, in a moment there was anger, and then i thought about the fact that not everyone is strong, and i don't know, maybe some of these people, maybe this woman and... she was just blackmailed because she had children, and i don't even want to someday, if i

ever see her, i don't want to ask her about it, i really hope that this burden will remain with her for the rest of her life, i really hope, but i have no malice, no malice, no hatred towards these people, it's their choice. there is a desire for justice, there is a desire for justice, but in this case, you know, i would like the only thing that i think is only fair, that these people, when it's over, this whole war, when the territories are de-occupied, their names should be called out, now i don't want to do it, but their names should be called out, and these people have no... no right to work in any work related to with the state, at any job, and yes, i don't, i don't think they

should be. punished, but they, or they should be imprisoned, you know, again , i'm coming back, because i don't know how they were blackmailed, what they were made to do, and most of all i don't want to be like them, i just don't want this ms. lyudmila, i thank you very much for this conversation, i would like to add, yes, i would like to add, perhaps continuing this topic, that no... not everyone has the strength and courage and the ability to remain themselves, no everyone has the strength, courage and faith not to betray their principles and their ideals, not to betray their country, but i want you to know about those women who, even in captivity, hold on

... they are an example for me, and i want to say , that during the already so-called full-scale occupation, the prison in donetsk season no five forcibly held a referendum on joining the occupied territories to russia, they did it forcibly when i said that if i didn't go, well, they told me that they would drag you here, they would beat you, but you would be there, and they would take you out. and simply, of course, there were no hurrans, there were no secrets from this referendum, there were two guards with batons, there was a stack of ballot papers on the table , and they forced you to show where you had to sign, what you were for, four women for the entire prison, i two i... will call olya's surnames,

svetlana and elena, we voted against, of course there were beatings, of course there were terrible threats, and we did not know how it would end, but it turns out that even prisons can do this, i know that during the so-called elections the so-called president of russia, citizen putin. forced to vote in prisons as well, i know that three women voted against it, and i know that there in prisons they force them to accept russian citizenship, they force them to take russian passports, you know that three women flatly refused to do it, mrs. lyudmila , i i'm sorry, we have to finish now,

what you just said is very important, you are a strong person, and ukraine should be proud of people like you. i thank you and thank you to our viewers too, stay tuned to espresso tv. what is bahmud? bahamud is a place of fear and a place of courage, no matter what anyone says, but bravery is not the absence of fear, bahamud is the adventure that will stay with us until the end, our bottom, children born in the era of independence, who are they, there are many of them , and they are strong and brave, they are the guardians of the traditions and martial arts of their ancestors, this

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