concentrated on the elections in the usa on november 5, well, count on november 5 plus a few months, but for some reason until february, i understand it before the inauguration before the swearing-in of the new president, well, on january 20, but the question is not that, i think that this is an exaggeration, it's just that in the heads of people, well, people, the presidents already have this date of november 5, the elections in the usa, or it could be anything, it could be that the situation will change, we didn't... we were expecting an attack on israel there , yes, there, for example, it affected the situation, it can be the same here, so it is necessary hold on, unfortunately, the situation now is such that we cannot expect drastic changes on our side from this summit, but it also lays certain foundations for the future, another short topic, just these days the president of the european parliament, roberta metzula, visited ukraine, and at the press conference in kiev. on

europe day, she stated that official negotiations on ukraine's accession to the eu should begin by the end of the first half of 2024, let's hear what she said, accession negotiations should begin as soon as possible, i i expect with optimism that the non-negotiable framework will be accepted by the eu member states. in june , the european parliament will help ukraine to move forward in all possible ways. the european way, and we, i promise, will remain and continue to loudly declare our support for ukraine, which is also evidenced by my visit today. mr. valery, what depends on the speed of ukraine's movement towards the european union? the pace depends on the date of ukraine's accession to nato. that is, if the date of joining nato will be determined, then the pace will also be determined. before joining

the european union will also be determined, of course, because, in principle, my position is that without security, with the fixation of security in europe, it is impossible to continue to talk about the investment of large sums in terms of investments, economic development, it will go, it will go now, well, if at a short stage it depends on what, well, it depends on the essence of our specific actions in the future. there are now the demands that were put there, yes, but in a strategic plan, i believe that european integration is where we will have a lot of disputes with our neighbors, with poles, romanians, slovaks there, the zaagary sector, and it would be a mistake if we thought that joining the eu would solve our security issues, no, it won't, so logically, it's security, well, now nato, maybe another scenario, further acceleration. pace of accession, i.e.

, very briefly, the end of the war, the accession of ukraine to nato and the eu, well, roughly so, despite the fact that mytsola says that we will start there by the end of the first half of the 24th year, he does not remove the moment of negotiations, they go 60 in turkey, some year, yes, yes, yes, well, it has been there for more than 5-10 years, so no, here it should be faster, of course, but i stand my ground, security is key for ukraine. nato or another model, and the eu is already a derivative thing. thank you, mr. valery, friends, i want to say and thank valery chalam for participating in the program, extraordinary plenipotentiary ambassador of ukraine, former ambassador of ukraine to the united states of america, and a person who knows about ukrainian diplomacy, not only about ukrainian diplomacy, about world diplomacy , all vasyl zima's big broadcast. two hours of air time, two hours of your time, two hours to learn about... war

and how the world lives, two hours to keep abreast of economic news and sports news, two hours in the company of favorite presenters, presenters who have become like family to many, as well as distinguished guests of the studio, events of the day in two hours, vasyl zima's big broadcast, a project for the intelligent and those who care, in the evening over espresso. greetings, friends, live. the second part of the verdict program, my name is serhii rudenko, and today we have a journalism club, and today we will talk about such things. putin's fifth presidential term, coronation the kremlin dictator, as an attempt to legitimize his power, what threats it poses to ukraine and the world. kubrakov is leaving the cabinet, one of his closest allies.

zelensky is no longer needed by his team. what government reform is planned in the office of the president? democracy above all, war changes. political values ​​of society, why ukrainians no longer believe that a strong leader is more important for the country than a democratic system. throughout our broadcast, today we ask you about whether you agree that democracy is more important for of ukraine than a strong leader? yes, no, everything is quite simple on youtube, if you have your own separate opinion, please leave it in the comments under this video, and of course, subscribe to ours. platforms on youtube and facebook, where you can now see us live also on these platforms, i want to introduce the guests of today's studio, they are my colleagues, andriy yanitsky, a journalist of the tv channel, andriya, congratulations, and kateryna nekrecha, a journalist of radio liberty ,

katerina, i congratulate you, thank you for joining our broadcast, i congratulate you, colleagues and congratulations viewers of espresso. thank you, kateryna, well, colleagues, since we are asking... tv viewers and viewers whether they agree that democracy is more important for ukraine than a strong leader, let's take a blitz poll and try to find out what you think, andriy , i think that , after all, the question about the leader of democracy is strangely posed, because all ukrainians should be strong leaders, well, at least in each, in each community, in each city there should be leaders of public opinion, leaders, activists, mayors, who are chosen, we still passed that stage of decentralization, and when democracy is opposed to a strong leader, well, it is not about a leader, it is about a dictator, it is about some kind of authoritarian leader, the leader is usually not

one, there are several of them, and one leader within the country leads other leaders, i took it that way. thank you, andriy, kateryna, well... i think that our history, the last one there for 30 years, shows that it is probably cool when there is a balance, on the one hand, because it is better to lead ukrainians and just tell them what to do not so, no matter what the leader is, over time all the same, we will say, whether in the elections, well , now because of the war later it will be, but nevertheless, whether in the elections, or by your dissatisfaction, or anti-ratings, it will be seen that the actions of one or the other. there is a leader, a politician, they are not satisfied with something, so it seems to me that ideally it should be a balance, and of course, according to the characteristics of all of us and you, then surely a firm hand is not necessary, although, if you look at leaders of all political parties for all the years

of independent ukraine, these parties were called there in the name of specific politicians, and this is also important for ukrainians, so it is probably the key to success in the balance. well, yes, we had leadership parties, and there were quite a few of them at one time, there were their leaders, headliners, who actually pulled the whole list, even when there was no name, for example, the servant of the people party, everyone understood that too this is a party of the leadership type, where the leader is zelenskyi and even more, most of the deputies who came to the verkhovna rada of ukraine, these were also people who were anonymous, but came as then joked about the passport of one person, volodymyr zelenskyi, that's why we actually ask about democracy, about a strong leader, because the results of sociological data of the kyiv international institute of sociology led us to this survey, they demonstrate that ukrainians have changed their opinion about democracy in recent years, now

they believe that a democratic system is more important for ukraine than a strong leader. if in october of the 20th year, 54% of respondents answered that ukraine has a strong leader. more important than the democratic system, and about the priority of democracy was answered by 31%, then in december 23rd, on the contrary, 59% answered that a democratic system is more important for ukraine, and only 32% spoke in favor of a strong leader, andriy, why could this correlation of these data occur and, well and seriously enough, if 32 and there are 54 - that's about a third, well, it's... a classic electoral cycle, when the president, who was just elected, has a lot of faith in him, and of course, ukrainians at that moment in the 20th year still hoped that their hopes for zelensky would come true, and that's it

number, people voted for different reasons, we remember that election campaign of zelensky, when nothing concrete was promised and... everyone saw in him someone of their own, their ideal, and first of all, some new face that would replace the old to politicians, but in recent years, when it became clear. what trends are there, that a new face is hiding behind a new face, including old politicians, and it became clear that procedures, and democracy is a procedure first of all, its procedures work better than faces, that is why faces change, and procedures remain, and of course, since we are talking about a strong leader, about democratic procedures, we cannot help but mention the fact that... during the war, elections to the verkhovna rada of ukraine and presidential elections will not take place, it seems that

all of agreed, well, at least with the verkhovna rada clearly, there the legislation provides for this decision of the constitutional court that there are no presidential powers, but we also understand that the next president will replace the current one, when there is such an opportunity, that is, when the presidential elections, but the russian federation is now... it is on the ground that zelensky may be illegitimate from may 21, 2024. at the same time, the minister of justice of ukraine denys malyuska assured in an interview with the bbc that the president of ukraine zelenskyi will not lose his legitimacy after the end of his five-year term of office, that is, on may 21, 2024. let's hear what the minister of justice said? no, he will not lose his legitimacy. the powers of the president continue until the election of the next one, but, well

, many norms in the constitution are formulated in such a way that whoever wants to find something to find fault with or to build some theory on from the language, he will find it, so we should definitely expect a lot of noise and shouting, and especially based on the fact that the authors-developers of the constitution had little faith in realistic ones. of a full-scale war with the participation of ukraine, therefore they behaved quite clumsily in relation to the relevant norms prescribed in the constitution. well, at a time when these norms of the constitution, which denys malyuska complains about, are not, no, not fully prescribed, or there are certain questions regarding them, obviously, then the arbitrator is the constitutional court, because only the constitutional court has the right to interpret the norms of the basic law and give certain verdicts, katerina, in your opinion, why didn't the presidential team go, well, in such

a traditional way? there is a constitutional court that interprets the constitution, moreover, the question of legitimacy, the further legitimacy of zelenskyi could simply be fixed by a decision of the constitutional court and shown to everyone, including not only ukrainians, but also leaders of western countries, because russia, in principle, uses this and is trying to torpedo our western... partners and say: listen, well you will give weapons there, and there the president has already reached the end of his powers, and in general, as levrov says, we, we will not sit down at the negotiating table with zelensky after may 21, 2024, because, as the kremlin says, he nobody for us. well, in principle, we understand that for russia the arguments there are unimportant, how they are in fact is also unimportant, so any situation from a propaganda point of view is possible. twist, here you can mention that in gur, for example, it has been reported for a long time that

there is a special operation, maidan 3, and so on are called, i.e., that there is a certain information wave, a threat, we now see in principle how it works in several aspects, the topic of the illegitimacy of the president of ukraine is developing, there is a very negative view of the work of the tsc there and the spread of all such scandals. video, for example, and there are such weak point shots. why the president's office does this and not another way is difficult to say, perhaps because i'm not a lawyer here, but with the experts with whom we talked, it seems that, legally, there is a question of legitimacy or illegitimacy, it's not stands, perhaps it would be worthwhile to communicate more broadly, more precisely, with ukrainians, with the population and emphasize this, even though i it seems that the majority of all who live in our

country understand the realities, the war, and the fact that elections really cannot be held there, if there are legal factors, and the president cannot leave his office, and until another president is elected there, and legally it is normal, then maybe if there is mistrust in society, then it is worth going to such more significant, let's say, factors, and, but if... this is enough for arguments and ukrainians have the trust of the international community as well and there is no doubt that president zelenskyi is not illegitimate, it is possible in this way... the only question is how russian propaganda will spin it, well, russian propaganda as always lies, and it is clear that their goal is completely different, that is, not to record the filigree or legality of this or that decision, although, in this situation with the kss , it seems to me that the other thing was the fear that the constitutional court would make some decision one that will not be completely acceptable, or

let's put it this way, the absence of a decision of the constitutional court allows without... let's talk about the legitimacy of president zelensky and maybe in this situation it might be better, although i am a supporter of the legislative procedures there and the correctness of the decisions of the constitutional court , although, although, if we recall the same leonid kuchma, then in the early 2000s there was also a decision of the constitutional court regarding the second term of kochma, because according to the constitution of 1996. year, the president did not have the right to hold the office of president twice , and this rule is currently in force, but kuchma was elected in in 1994, before the adoption of the constitution for the first time, before the adoption of the constitution in 1996, well, in the early 2000s, they decided to count how many presidential terms leonid danylovich served, and

it turned out that if before the adoption of the constitution it was one term, after its adoption it was also the first . and then the second one is possible, but the political situation there developed in such a way that kuchma had to agree to the fact that in 2004 he had to resign, because the tape scandal and the murder of georgy gangadz, there were many things that simply did not allow him to take advantage of this decision of the constitutional court, but andrii, in this story, of course, when the russians spin this story about the legitimacy or illegitimacy of zelenskyi, it is obviously ukraine. propaganda should be more active, not only diplomacy, but also propaganda, pumping the topic of putin's illegitimacy, because we see how the so-called inauguration of the so-called president, the so -called putin, took place on may 7, and we see that the world, part of the world, or delegated its representatives , six european states were represented there, or made statements that well

the elections were not completely free, but we recognize that... putin is at the head of the russian state, have we told the world enough and does the world want to hear it, that putin, as of may 7, 2024, is a self-proclaimed president, that he is a usurper of power, that he is a person who commits war crimes and it is recorded by the international criminal court, but at the same time he is a person who conducts elections in the occupied territories. of a foreign country and gives out these data as part of its victory, undoubtedly, we feel it the most, and it hurts us the most in countries that are far from russia, citizens who live far from russia, they do not feel this, and for them the imitation of russian elections is, well, equal to the elections that they

hear about from other countries. that's why russian propaganda is in a winning position here, really, when it says that the ukrainians didn't hold the elections, but we did, and for people who don't go into details, it sounds convincing for them, but the western elites, of course, they know and understand the situation, including the legitimacy or illegitimacy of the russian president, the question of why some western... countries sent their representatives to his inauguration, lies not only in the plane of his legal legitimacy, but also in russia's actual military morale, in the nuclear weapons with which russia threatens the world, and in attempts to leave some door for negotiations with putin in order

not to cause this... nuclear conflict, that's how the western elites explain their continued communication with the russian dictator. katerina, you, as it is obvious that we all followed what happened during the inauguration, how putin behaved, which he made statements, it is clear that he spoke again about nuclear weapons, about the fact that we will not allow anyone, we have strategic weapons, and everyone should understand all this, but from the point of view of a person who was actually crowned and , which probably should not be called, including with our western partners, the president, well... is he the head of russia or is there the leader of russia or the dictator of russia, well, there are definitions somewhere, that's how he looked, did he look confident,

p 1st presidential term, 24 years in great power at the head of russia, that is, what are you like saw putin, i would have preferred not to have seen him, but here we can remark, but in fact, well, looking at... especially the last 10 years after the start of the invasion of ukraine, working in the crimearealia project, where we did a lot of broadcasts there, we took into account the fact that he speaks and constantly monitors his press conferences and everything, i am like everyone, probably who watches journalists there, i can say that on the one hand i am an expert, on the other hand we do not know doubles, not doubles, that is it doesn't matter, he, well, he has such an appearance and manner of delivery information that... that, for example, i would not like him as a leader there and would not listen to him, for me he is fundamentally insecure in many things, and his behavior and

appearance characterize him in a bad way for me, and but despite that, there is already a completely different field in russia, and by the way, when we talk about legitimacy or not, but are we sure that not the majority of russians, they support vladimir putin, do not the majority really vote for him, well, we there are some... some polls, we can pay attention to it, and we'll see how it goes the russian-ukrainian war, how do these people join the army, and then, when they become prisoners, what do they say, what do their relatives say, well, there is obviously support there, and putin, unfortunately, probably, this is not the only problem of ukraine , in principle the whole system, well, conditionally speaking, there will be no putin, this does not mean that the russian-ukraine war, it will stop and that's it, russia will withdraw its troops, absolutely not, that's why everything... seems to me to be more global and scarier than the very figure of vladimir putin, whom you can visit there to find fault with this ceremony in the sense that he went somewhere for a very long time, this is

very strange, as always on the day of the victory they have a background of those older people who are presented as veterans, and there, based on their age, it is in principle clear that these are probably children of war there , and that's why he rallies around the war and this kind of victorious rhetoric. his people, his population, ah, promises something, says that here we, we, we, together there, we have to achieve and everything inspires, probably in this way, unites, that is, as for the citizens of russia, especially those he is supported, well, probably, that's for sure works, and you know what still amazes me is that abroad, when citizens of russia, or maybe not citizens of russia, but who consider themselves russians, go out there to celebrate under the flag. and so on in germany, we know that on victory day flags and any russian symbols were banned there, but there are a bunch of countries where russian citizens

go out and celebrate something, so there are nesting dolls, that's all, and i'm so it is surprising that people are not ashamed, and i even asked ilip namaryov, a russian politician, during the broadcast, why this is so in general, what is the trick, what do they get out of it, well, they show their patriotism, they remember there their great-grandfathers, grandfathers who... fought, well, this is such a different psychology, i would be ashamed if my country was the aggressor and did what it does, that is, well such murders and all that russia is doing, i would be ashamed in principle to even show my passport there, let alone go to some festivals abroad, and celebrating it, that is, we do not understand the logic of all this, our logic is that in he came to us in his 14th year as a citizen of ukraine enemy, murders began, disappearances began, mass... repressions in the occupied territories, illegal elections in the occupied territories, they have actually been taking place since 2014, the question for the western world is why this illegitimacy was not recognized there then, and, that is,

the citizens of ukraine were not it may be unclear why there is such indecisiveness again, not the maximum effectiveness of the western world, and now actually even recognizing putin as the legitimate president acting there, it does not fit into our logic, into the logic of the west... education, where you have to somehow communicate, negotiate, well, obviously, it is included, unfortunately for us. thank you, kateryna, andriy, but considering what actually is, and how putin presents it, it is obvious that he perceives the next presidential term as legitimization or the right to continue the war, and obviously, this will somehow shape him in the future. steps, and we can already see these further steps, because just three days ago there was the inauguration of putin, the so-called president of the russian federation, we can already see how

it is unfolding. russian offensive on kharkiv in the direction they are already talking about the fact that this offensive may also affect the neighboring sumy region, well, they have been talking about this for a long time, so what can we expect from the crowned putin? well, actually , i just read on the espresso website that heavy fighting is going on along the entire front line, zelensky listened to syrskyi’s report, putin really took this... the procedure of his inauguration, legitimization, as permission and the attention of western countries to him, as permission to further aggressive actions, the front line, the last six months and many losses. well, we will monitor the situation at the front, of course, she can to change, and we can already see the reaction of the supreme commander of the armed forces of ukraine, he talks about what he spoke with

oleksandr syrskyi, there is a rather tense situation, we on the espresso tv channel and on radio svoboda monitor all these processes, and of course, we comment on the live broadcast and present the situation in our news and in our programs, we discuss what is actually happening at the front. however, colleagues, before moving on to another topic, i would like to remind our tv viewers that today we are conducting a survey and we are asking you whether do you agree... that democracy is more important for ukraine than a strong leader? everything is quite simple on youtube, yes, no, if you have a different opinion, please leave it in the comments below this video, don't forget to subscribe to our youtube channel and our social networks, and most importantly, if you watch us on tv, grab your smartphone or phone and vote if you think that democracy is more important for ukraine than a strong leader, 0800-211381, no 0800-2113. 72, all

calls to these numbers are free, vote, at the end of the program we will match the results of this vote. another event, but an internal one of our domestic political life, which happened yesterday, is the resignation of oleksandr kubrakov from the post of vice prime minister for the reconstruction of ukraine, minister of community development, territories and infrastructure, a person who was quite close to the office of the president of ukraine , and even to the president himself. of ukraine and it turned out that on the eve of his release, kubrakov refused to come to the profile committee of the verkhovna rada for a report, he himself wrote on social networks that the resignation was for him surprise, but he was ready to report, i will quote mr. kubrakov. i am always ready for an open dialogue and a detailed report on the work of the ministry in all areas of my responsibility. the leadership of the faction, including the head of the government, denys shmyhal

, did not discuss this decision with me. was not invited to the meeting of the faction and the profile committee, the day before the servants of the people faction spoke about the need to divide the ministry of community development, territories and infrastructure into two separate departments, but the most interesting thing is that the representatives of the servants of the people and they molded this big ministry, now they say, listen, there is no kubrakov, we don't need such a big ministry, but observing this, kateryna, you, to which you... come to the point that, in principle, there is a single decision-making center , sometimes those who believe that they are also included in this decision-making center, find themselves outside this center, well, that is, these five or six managers, about whom zelensky once spoke at the final press conference in the 23rd year, it turns out , that those who even think that they are included in these five or six managers, well, how kubrako, for example, they are just...