to stand, and i went up to this top bunk and i was just thrown down from there, that the punishment can be put in a glass, so-called, it is a very tight corner like this, it is closed by an iron door, you can't breathe, you can't move, and you can stand like that , you are wasting time, your body does not belong to you. they can do anything with you, everything, then they brought you to donetsk pre-trial detention center, right? yes, then after 50 days i was transferred to donetska sizo, and you know, when i went there, i was even happy, i thought that, well, they couldn't be there in siza such conditions as in isolation, i can even imagine. i couldn't believe that in the 201st century

people can live like this, exist like this, because this is not life, and politicians were kept together with criminals, we did not put them in the largest cell in terms of the number of people, but it was very small, and when you get up, there there is simply no city, and the relation to you, because these criminals, they are bigger. women served, were in the so-called militia, and when they receive you in the cell, they ask under which article, under which article you were brought, and they know that there is already an article there for extremism, for espionage, for terrorism, and when you name it, they immediately put a stigma that one, one more boil appeared in the camera, and the corresponding attitude. ms.

lyudmila, please tell me about these torture camps, these so-called sisos, is the treatment of women different from the treatment of men? you know, i didn't feel that, and it doesn't matter if someone thinks that if it's a woman, they don't beat like that, they beat like that, if they think that if... a woman isn't tortured like that, they're tortured like that, it doesn't matter , and i understand how difficult it is there and it's hard for men, but i want to emphasize that most of the women who are held for years in these prisons, in these torture chambers, they are mothers, and in addition to physical suffering, in addition to the fact that they lose their health, they lose. that

priceless time of communication with my children, i saw women there, talked with them, who had not seen their children for three or four years, had not seen small children, one woman, i have already told about her, she was detained, her son was four years old , which means not seeing her child for 3 years, the other is natalka, she was arrested daughter, was two years old. she was arrested natalka in the 19th year, so you understand, this girl, this woman, is still in captivity, i know that she has already been brought from donetsk, brought to rostov, since the 19th year, the person has not seen or heard anything about her two-year-old daughter, another woman, sveta, she was also arrested in the 19th year, arrested in front of... small

children, the youngest daughter was four years old, they just searched in front of these children, they took away the phones, even the children , children, and they threw the mother into the car in front of these children and they took her, this child then told me, she ran, fell, got up again, ran to beg, let my mother go, since the 19th year... until this time, the mother of this girl is still in captivity, and it just breaks my heart with this to women, it breaks my heart because i hear how they are crying for their children, how they are suffering, what have you been feeling these days, what have you been thinking, did you hope that it will all end well? these days, what you

mean, these days that you were in captivity, you know, at first, did not believe at all that this was happening, did not believe that it was true. yes and that this was not some kind of dream, then they told me that my relatives had applied for my exchange, and a lawyer came and said that i must agree to all the accusations, sign everything, and then the trial will take place as soon as possible, i will have a verdict, and then it will happen exchange, because my relatives submitted me for exchange, and it gave me such confidence, well, yes, well, i will sign everything, and the trial would be sooner, but i think that this was the revenge of the investigator, due to the fact that i pulled out of isolation, transported to donetsk in the pre-trial detention center, and there was simply no investigation, and an investigator just came once every six months, forced

me to sign blank letters, and after a year i lost hope for this exchange, after... two years i was already hysterical, i shouted that they should condemn me, even for life , but let the trial take place, because when there is a verdict, you will already be taken to the colony, and in the colony you can at least go outside and walk on the ground, and not sit in that cage, not leaving it at all, not seeing the sun, not being able to see the sky because you're just not allowed outside, and then when the full-scale... war started, after some time i was very high in this cell, there was a window, and when you go to the second bunk, to the second floor, you see what is happening in the yard, and we saw a

lot of prisoners of war, and praise be, they were from with bags on their heads, they were beaten, i remembered how they drove us in this isolation, you couldn't see... where you were going, you fell, you were beaten, they forced you to get up, and it was scary, and i realized that now , first of all, they have to release the military, and it was happening very slowly, but it was happening, and there is hope that it will happen liberation, in the end, it was already almost lost, the only thing i wanted then was for that... to happen, for me to be transferred at least to a colony. international organizations like them, do they have any influence at all on what happens to the prisoners, or did they come out on you maybe while you were there? you know, this is

also a very painful topic, because now i am talking with international representatives of international organizations, with representatives of embassies. slams of other countries in ukraine, or on some foreign trips, i always i appeal that if there is no possibility right now, just now, to take and release our prisoners, then let's put some pressure on the international red cross, on other humanitarian organizations so that humanitarian aid reaches our prisoners, once in three years. . only help from the red cross, in donetsk it was already very small packages with hygiene products, the most necessary, but they were distributed not only to ukrainian, civilian prisoners, political prisoners,

prisoners of war, they were given to the entire prison, including criminal offenders, including militiamen who are being punished for criminal offenses there. and there was not enough just this small package for everyone, and we were forced to divide even this bar of soap into two parts so that there would be enough for everyone, but that was once in three years, i know that after our exchange there was no such help once, and i know what a need there is for these hygiene products for women, and this is abnormal and... there are very big problems with drinking water, in general with water in donetsk now, and it is already took place in the 21st year, and women are given just 1 liter of water, dirty water, from some river, pond, for all needs, 1.5 liters of water per day,

they are not allowed to take a bath or shower, and women are forced to use this dirty water and drink her, if there are no transfers, if relatives do not transfer some water for drinking, and wash and wash simply over a hole in the field, which performs the role. so to speak, the toilet, and the shower room at once, and for washing the post, for everything, it's just a dirty, very smelly hole in the field, right in the cell, how you were fed, you know, call it the fact that they distributed food there, well, you can't. and even when transfers were prohibited, and there was absolutely no external help, well

, the only thing you could eat was to cut off a small piece of bread that was baked there and somehow use it, it was just garbage, it was a very dirty stew , kind of dirty, frozen thousands of times. the fish is already rotten and it is simply not cleaned, not washed, it is covered with water, it is barely boiled and distributed along with this water, it is impossible not to look at it, not to breathe, this smell, this smell, well, it is better not to eat there, lady lyudmila, maybe you could give some advice? ukrainians who are at risk of being captured by the russians, how would you advise

them to behave there? you know, first of all, i really don't want anyone to end up there, but i understand and i know that even now there, in the occupied territories , civilians continue to be arrested, for any kind of resistance, which they think the occupiers will forget , russian, not such a... not such a word, and i would not like this to happen, but it happens for those, if it has already happened, do not lose hope, to know, just know now that the whole of ukraine is fighting here, and there will not be a single moment of peace for me, not for others, until our people are... liberation, no matter how scary it is, no, don't show this fear of yours, because they

really want to break, they will be very happy if they see that you are afraid of them, do not be afraid and know that they are fighting for you, this is the knowledge that they are fighting for you in the free territory of ukraine, that they know about you and remember you they are being beaten, it does not give strength, i also know about... this, for the period that you were in prisoners, do you know what actually happened in donetsk and other temporarily occupied territories? yes, of course, someone new was constantly coming to the cell, and if it is even a person for criminal offenses, a murderer came to the cell, or for drugs, for selling drugs, they will tell... what is happening in freedom, in the occupied territories, it is not

possible even to combine it, but we also knew about it, and plus we still had televisions in the cells 24 hours a day, but russian or local television, it worked 24 hours a day, and 90% of this television is consisted of... informational so-called propaganda various programs, and understanding all the lies that these programs told and showed, nevertheless analyzing, watching one and then another program, you found some drops of truth there, because this goebelian message he for of russian television, he turned out to be very... needed, when they said that for propaganda

you need 10% of the truth, and to make 90% of lies from this truth, we were engaged in the search for this 10% of the truth and listened, sought out and somehow tried to analyze, have you passed any rehabilitation after release from captivity, what did you do to... did it help you recover? you know , unfortunately, i did not have enough time for normal rehabilitation, and at that time, in the 22nd year , there was no such state rehabilitation program for... those prisoners, released from captivity, unfortunately, it is now only is being created, but i believe that as soon as our civilians are released, albeit the first ones, we will find an opportunity to provide them with this rehabilitation. we were dealt with by psychologists, but they were

voluntary, charitable foundations of some kind, and it was very... not long, and now we we understand, i understand that psychological help is needed, that it should be long-term, that it should be more focused on each case, and we are working on it with other organizations, with other charitable foundations, giving our advice, cooperating and developing some. program, i hope that in the near future it will also be at the same level as normal for providing such assistance. ms. ludmila, i want to ask you specifically about the reasons why you were captured, well, about your active activities in the temporarily occupied territory

daughters as far as i know, you have been helping orphanages for several years. near e novo-moskovska, novoazovsk, i'm sorry, takovska, but please tell me your story, yes, i found out that this children's boarding school was disbanded in the 14th year, and i just went to see and see what the needs were. what about the needs, and i saw a lot of children, you distributed them to families who were unable to receive them, and at that time these grandmothers or aunts, or relatives there, did not receive any financial assistance for these children, no

pensions, because it was precisely this period, when it was not clear what was going on, and this occupation had just happened... nothing was restored, and the children were simply starving, i told my friends here in kyiv about it, i wrote to them about it, and one of my friends, she is taking a risk, very much taking a risk, this is journalist olya musafirova, she is already almost completely occupied, our territory was occupied, there were some movements of equipment, some mobile. then there were still checkpoints and they were very dangerous, because i did not understand who was standing at those checkpoints, i mean the occupation, occupiers, but she came, brought some toys before the new year 2015, and we went together to these children, collected them at school, and

she was also shocked. these children, and then we had the idea that she, among her acquaintances through facebook, would collect used things for these children, we rewrote the needs, the size, the dimensions needed, and sent all this to mariupol, and i already across the demarcation line, she left, took these things, took them to the children, also bought some there that she could afford. products, vitamins, and we took care of these children in this way from the 14th year to the 19th year until the year of my detention. tell me, please, in the spring of 2014 , was there a feeling that

some terrible changes were about to come, no. no, even then it would be strange if someone had said that it would be like that, probably no one would have believed it, i think no one believed it, not here in kyiv, not in donetsk, not in novoazovsk, and i saw that a lot of people move across the border line, russians, come, hold some kind of rallies, come in general incomprehensible. people, but i thought that all this was under the control of the authorities, that the local law enforcement officers, sbushniks, they are also looking after this. and there were even several times when rallies were held in our town and the so-called e were held

, people, communists, came from rostov, and i approached and tried to ask these people something, and the police stood in the bushes filming, but did not interfere, it seemed to me , that it... somehow has to break down, and of course, that there were a lot of promises for and these promises were directed, and this propaganda was for the generation of 60 plus, 50 plus, and these promises that ukraine does not need you, but we will come, and we will have different orders, you will have different... salary, you will have a different pension, and this was aimed at these people, and some , indeed, some have relied on it, it is true. and there was information that

your colleagues actually passed you in the 19th year, is that true? yes, i saw, several years after the arrest, they finally decided to somehow formalize this... case against me and brought it and let me sign it very quickly on every page, because they had to shape it all, and i saw four denunciations from people, two of them are my work colleagues, one person, he worked at a school, and one person i don't know. that is, among these four, two people were these former colleagues. what do you think, why, why were there traitors among your colleagues, why

did people fall for russian pensions, why did some of our security forces go over to the other side? unfortunately, not only some security forces went over to the other side, and this is a great pity. as for the others, you know, i... i had the first moment when i saw who wrote it, really a big insult, especially to one woman, for a moment there was anger, and then i thought about the fact that not everyone is strong, and i don't know, maybe one of these people, maybe this woman, she was ... just blackmailed, because she had children, and i don't even want to someday, if i ever

see her, i don't want to ask her about it, i really hope that this burden will remain with her for the rest of her life, i really hope, but i don't have no malice, hatred, hatred towards these people, it is their choice. there is a desire for justice, there is a desire for justice, but in this case, you know, i would like the only thing that i think is the only fair thing, that these people, when this whole war is over, when the territories are de-occupied, their names should be called out loud, now i don't want to do it, but their names should be called out, and these people have no... right to work in any government-related job, in any job, and yes, i don't, i don't think

they should be punished, but them, or they should be jailed, you know, i'm coming back again, because i don't know how they were blackmailed, what they were told, and most of all i don't want to be like them, i just don't want that. mrs. lyudmila, i thank you very much for this conversation, i would like to add, yes, of course, i would like to add, perhaps continuing this topic, that not everyone has the strength and courage and the opportunity to be and remain themselves , not everyone has the strength, courage and faith not to betray their own. principles, not to betray your country with your ideals, but i want you to know about those women who, even in captivity,

hold on, and they are for... i am an example, and i i want to say that during the already so-called full-scale occupation, the prison in donetsk sezo number five forcibly held a referendum on the annexation of the occupied territories to russia, this was done forcibly, when i said that if i did not leave, well, they told me that they will drag you here, they will beat you, but you will be there, and they brought out the men and... simply, of course, there were no hurrans, there were no secrets from this referendum, there were two guards with clubs, there was a stack of ballots on the table was and they forced, showed where you have to e to sign, what are you for, for the whole prison, four women, i'm two, i won't... name

the names of olya, svitlana and elena. we voted against it. of course, there were beatings, of course, there were terrible threats, and we didn't know how it would end, but it turns out that even prisons can do this. i know that during the so-called election of the so-called president of russia, citizen putin. were also forced to vote in prisons, i know that three women voted against, and i know that there in prisons they force them to accept russian citizenship, they force them to take russian passports, you know that three women categorically refused to do this, mrs. lyudmila, i'm sorry, we have to finish already, it's very important what you just

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