in hungary, in fact, it is only budapest and a few large cities, because there is no european country with such oppression and serfdom, as was the case in hungary, with the exception of the russian empire, but i do not consider the russian empire to be a european state, that's why because of this, unfortunately, there is an echo of serfdom, an echo of such isolationism. monolingualism, this makes itself felt, we can hope that these contacts between the president of ukraine and the prime minister of hungary will continue and that viktor orbán will be more pay attention to the assessment of ukrainian views on events there? well, these contacts will be able to continue, but i don't trust orban, because again, i watched. in orbanivsk and

he still believes that even the adopted new law on nationals does not bring anything back, that is, he is once again following the old record, and once again he is using this issue purely to strengthen his dictatorial regime, so here, unfortunately, we don't need to count on the positive, we need to do our own thing, do our own thing is... the atlantic movement, resist the strong european state and pay no attention to orbán, i think there will still be coffee for him. thank you, mr. tibor. tsibor tompa, head of the hungarian community of kyiv region, was in touch with us. we 're going to break for a few minutes now, but please don't switch. no no no. hello,

this is svoboda ranok, an informational project of radio svoboda. top guests every day. this is the shipping district, kherson. turn on live. we are somewhere in the vicinity of bakhmut. we tell the main thing. on weekdays at 9:00. verdict with serhiy rudenko, from now on in the new, two-hour format. even more analytics. even more important topics, even more top guests: foreign experts, inclusion from abroad: about ukraine, the world, the front, society, and also feedback, you can express your opinion on the bad day with the help of a phone survey, turn on and tune in, verdict with serhii rudenko, every weekday from 20 to 22 at espresso. we continue. 219 day of the war in the middle

east, and our guest is aryeh zayden, a reserve of the israel defense forces, a political scientist, welcome, mr. aryeh, i greet you, good evening, so we are literally with you on the threshold of a possible battle for rafah, the last city in the gas sector that is still under the control of the terrorist organization hamas, the prime minister of israel netanyahu is talking about the need to continue this operation united states. is trying to prevent israel from carrying out this operation, but a few hours ago it became known that the united states is even ready to provide israel with information on the location of key leaders of the terrorist group hamas, unless there is an assault on rafah, what do you think will happen occur? when the americans talk about storming rafah, they mean that we will do to rafah the same thing that he did to gaza, and... and benjamin netanyahu and other

representatives of the government do not talk to them about this, which is will not be, that is , there is some kind of misunderstanding between the two leaders, when one does not want joe biden to have some big tragedy before his election, which he should have stopped, and the other leader who does not want the election to be his. .. to all his electorate that he is so ready to go to the same for such a large-scale operation, which is needed and which is needed from him, his colleagues, other ministers on whom he depends in today's government, what will happen in reality, most likely in reality it will be a limited operation, since in... it it looks like now, but

there will be limited actions every time in a different district, when the public ones will come out of each such district. only there will be an operation, how effective it will be, the big question is whether the fighting is going on, the fighting will be going on, it will be clear that the militants will be destroyed, but whether all these battalions and their commanders will really be destroyed, this is not a fact at all, and that is why, yes, we continue to exist, this is not understood enough, well, the understandable efforts of both leaders to pass between the krabel, well, you... the question arises, how much effort is this in general will contribute to the destruction of hamas as this force that continues, well, by and large , to control gas, we will not hide it, so at today's stage, and you even know this, this is probably not even a military issue, but rather a political one, and

the military power of hamas destroyed if we we are talking about a war between two armies, the ones left behind... four battalions are exactly the military force that was at the beginning of the war, of course, there are also underground fortresses, even those that remained do not have the same influence today as before , but this is only in the military layer, when we move to politics and administration, it is clear that at the moment when this will not be present and there will not be any other administrative, other administrative institution that replaced thomas , hamas will return fully to management, even if he, he - i don't know, won't

call himself that, so it won't be hamas people, other, although i don't see any reason why the mat didn't say that it was him, and so will emphasize that he did not win in this... round of the war and will continue to try to defeat israel and at the end of this there will be a situation when this chauvinist invader in quotation marks will be destroyed. yes, in that regard, no no no, the military will not solve it, it will not solve it, it is simply impossible, this is a question politically, administratively, and you see that at this stage today, benjamin netanyahu is not quite ready to solve this problem, because he is being offered another world, that is, to recognize that a palestinian state, a palestinian state will exist, but as i understand it, that there are more and more voices in israel who say that we should just distance ourselves from them, ensure our safety and let them live their lives there, but here is another question, they can live their lives, but together with

this meaning of their life will be the destruction of israel, well, by and large, russia lives its own life, only the meaning of the existence of the russian state is the expansion of its territory, ukraine does not interfere with living. it's just that russia is sure that sooner or later there will be no ukraine, it's absolutely the same situation, it can happen again, it's absolutely the same situation, and even it's not new, they existed like this for 17 years and the meaning was the destruction of israel , the zionist enigma, that's what they call and so on, the entire culture, the entire education was built everywhere was built so that to prepare new ideological, a new generation, so ideological. i completely agree that israel is the enemy, just as we see today in the russian federation, yes, ukraine, the nazis must be destroyed, and so on, and so on, and so on. in that sense , yes, every terrorist organization, not being a state, or, let's say, every,

every society that is governed by a leader, who chooses terrorist activity, rather than the development of its economy and... the development of its state, whether it will be a state as recognized by the un, the russian federation, or the un does not recognize, we do not fully recognize, we do not fully recognize that the gas sector is not in that respect, so i agree that there is no difference, there is no difference, and again, we are at a dead end at this stage, for today there is a decision no, so it is clear that there are even more people who are in society. the israelis are told about this, that the issue must be resolved, but at the same time, politically, the government today is in such a situation that it does not have to listen to what its people say, they still have at least three, a little

less than three years, and 64 ee mandates for 120, and a serious coalition, well... respectable, and none of the players on that, in that coalition ground has any sense and desire to leave or destroy this coalition, and it doesn't matter what rhetoric it is... do you think there will be no elections , if hostilities end ? unfortunately, no, in order for there to be elections, it is necessary that more than 5 or 8% of the entire population turn out on the street, that is, there must, must, must be a consensus and not only of people, citizens, who come out, but also, as it once was, if you do you remember, about a year ago... when there was this legal reform, and one day in the morning

, trade unions, businesses, and other organizations together said at a general press conference that they were suspending all economic activity in israel, while benjamin netanyahu , then it was on ae in the fleet... the dismissal of the minister of oboro, the minister of defense, we all demanded, we all demanded that he be returned, and it was so, but if it happens again and there is a demand, that demand will be elections now , then yes, but in my opinion it will not be, unfortunately, 43 minutes ago in in israel, the day of commemoration of those who died in wars has begun, the first such day since october 7. i wanted to ask you in general to tell our tv viewers how

this day of commemoration of the dead is distinguished in israel, because ukraine will also have to create an obvious and during hostilities, if they drag on for the next years and after the war, this is such a tradition, taking into account how many people have already died at the front, how many people may still die in the following years of confrontation, and how can this memorial day be different yati from those days that happened in a relatively peaceful time? yes, it is clearly different, because 700 new families were added, and those who buried their relatives and loved ones in the last six months, this is a very large number for israel, and something similar happened only 20 years ago... in a year was destroyed by terrorists, about 400 were killed by terrorists,

but there were also public and military people, here we were talking about 700 only about the military, because today it is about the military, and also people who died by hand, so yes, he much more difficult, it is more difficult for me, if i did not have enough time to go around before. those families that i knew, commanded or was subordinate to, ah, them, children, sten, today i don’t even want to count how much time it takes for this, and therefore yes, it is difficult, you have to choose every time , when you go to whom and who do you support, and this is firstly, uh, secondly, uh, here it must be said that... the center of everything this day is the family itself,

that is, tragedy, tragedy, personal tragedy people, it is never some talk about, look how much we have done for the country, everything for the country, yes, it does not matter what the price is, no, on the contrary, this day tells us, does not remind us and... focuses on because what price we pay to be independent, and at the same time, after this day, after the day of remembrance, the independence day immediately begins, ah, and today this year , the independence day will be very difficult, because celebrating independence day, as it was before, when so far 133 hostages of prisoners are in hamas and there is no victory final, not the appearance. it is possible, we don't call it a celebration, we call it

a freeman's day, but there won't be any such entertaining events, and people are also not in the mood to have fun, well, that's why it has to be this way, that's why the difference this year between to be until today , october 7. tell me, please, mr. aria, and how do you generally assess this, i would say, massive anti-semitic ... company that we are currently observing in the united states and in europe, by and large, we can say that we suddenly moved to the 30s, the 20th century, when people noticed one thing, but stubbornly did not want to notice the other, and it was absolutely obvious that they do it not by chance, because it corresponds to their political views, that is such an unwillingness to notice one's tragedies , the desire to notice others, so here is

the struggle of narratives, which has existed for at least 50 years since... the beginning of the mute in quotes, the circumstances of the liberation of the palestinian liberation movement, which immediately chose the path of terrorism, military, and not peaceful, this has its reasons, but this it doesn't matter, one way or the other, they have always chosen destructive chess and continue to choose it, and... and in that sense, from this side of israel and we are losing the information war, and we are not explaining well enough to the world what exactly is going on in realities, we make a lot of mistakes, and that is why we play into

the hands of those people who... base and expand the narrative about this, we are the occupiers and so on, communists, so there is, in my opinion, something logical in that, it is a logical development of events , and exactly the logical development of events with the inefficient government that we have now, but it is not only his fault in the fact that we cannot... oppose, but what can be done in this situation? do you see any moves that could make a difference? well , of course, first of all, israeli society itself must

decide where its borders are, and this will be the first and... the main, probably, ah, the main sign that we are ending this era , ah, not a solution to the conflict between the palestinians and us. and i am not talking about what is needed, to give or not to give and so on. first, we must say that we are ready to solve it. and the problem is that none of us nor any government was ready to solve it. everyone is very concerned about the fact that it is somehow in itself, ah,... we will figure it out and we will, and for the last 20 years and almost more than 25 years, the main vector of such development and pattern has been the management of the conflict, no one said that the conflict should to decide, everyone agreed that the conflict can be managed, and this is for us,

and this is good for us, because all our enemies will fight with each other, and for the time being we will make money from... our technologies and supposedly in a normal world. this october 7 fully proved that such and such a cartridge does not work, it is ineffective, whether another cartridge was prepared, i did not see it, we need to decide now as a society, which one we decide, and this is quite such a problematic and painful process. i understand that the idea of ​​conflict management was and is the main political idea of ​​prime minister netanyahu, he believed that he would be able to manage this conference. elbow, not even between israel and the palestinian authority, but between the gaza strip and the west bank of the jordan river, between the fatipov group, hamas, that israel will be the conductor here, and it turned out that someone else is holding this baton, indeed, and so the same relationship was with syria, that we can support jubasr there and not support and others, that we can take

them and injure them and in this way supposedly influence that someone there... the syrian society, which is almost gone after 11 million citizens became, ah, just left their side, and in lebanon, and now they live in europe, so this pattern was not only his, and if it is his, then by other leaders and heads, from perba. security was also, they took this, this, they took this, this point of view, because it's not bad, so if you're confident that you can... manage the conflict, you can make the army smaller, you can spend less on on

on security, not much, still less, in general you can no longer fight, you can talk about the fact that we will have a small smart army and so on and so on, but only now it is clear that the army must be not only smart , and also large enough for so that it is possible to fight on dekiya. and by the way, and it is possible that the war is on other fronts, you allow it, views do not, but the only front is real, serious, which we have, then the northern, lebanese, not syrian, then for sure, there, if there are any intentions and the offensive, it is difficult to call it, they will try to carry out some terrorist operations there, but is it an attack? are we ready to meet? the army is ready, the army is ready to meet, but for that it needs now all its capabilities and all the resources, today

almost the air force can to concentrate on the southern hunting and completely and in general, they did it and they are doing it, but in the land offensive, that's all for now, it's really not possible. and it is not a secret to occupy raflah with questions, and when it ends there, then we will surely see that all the ground forces will spend the night on the northern border, and then, probably, an ultimatum will be sent to the zbali, that they have, i don’t know, 48 hours or 52 hours for them to implement this un resolution, and in my opinion, they will implement it and the decision will be... diplomatic and so far it looks like, it looks like when it will be, well, probably somewhere

at the beginning, maybe at the beginning of itself, why, i'm basing it on what our government representatives said that from september 1st they want, plan to start in the north it is an academic year, and everyone will already be living in their own... to destroy four battalions in rafah, it is at least a month and a half or two months, and this is really the beginning land, let's talk about the beginning of august, this time is not enough, that is, we will see ... military actions in the north in september, whether our government will stick to its plan, at this stage, and considering

the historical possibilities and the personality of benlami and others, a diplomatic solution with very aggressive rhetoric looks like the logical development vector. thank you. mr. ari, arye zayden, lieutenant colonel of the reserve of the israel defense forces, political scientist, we were on the phone, now let's return to ukrainian topics, we will talk with oleksiy haran, professor of political science at the kyiv-harian academy, scientific director of the democratic initiatives foundation named after ilko kucheriv, congratulations, mr. oleksiy, i congratulate you, well, military sociology is always important to observe how the mood of society changes, how society changes, social trends, what you see now most importantly, changes? you understand, we are talking about changes, yes, but at the same time, some numbers are quite

stable enough, yes, well, for example, the belief of ukrainians in victory, yes, or our feeling of general national unity, which has increased, that is, these numbers are stable, by the way, as for mobilization, the number of those who are ready... it roughly corresponds to the number of those who were ready to mobilize before the start of the great war, well, i think we are about this, we 'll talk about it, and the custom, by the way, the number of people who are in favor of democracy has increased, it's more than before the war, democracy against authoritarianism, but at the same time, i think if we... say now about these changes that are taking place, definitely we had a period of euphoria that was in early

2023. and we hoped for the quick liberation of the occupied territories, this did not happen on land, because we had a successful counteroffensive at sea, and this should be emphasized, and gradually there was a change and confidence in the presidency, in the institution of the president, which is still high, by the way , 58%, according to the survey from march to march. polling, but it fell, and the peak, again, the peak was in march of '23, and there was a change, among those who believe that the country is moving in the right direction, that is, if before the beginning there were only 20% of such infestations, and 60 believed that

ah, what... is going in the wrong direction, then again in march of the 23rd year it changed in a mirror. 60 said that ah-ah, moving in the right direction, and then this figure began to gradually-gradually decrease, and the end of march is about 40x40, well, there it is 39-38, let's say, 40 by 40, that is , 40% think which... in the right direction 40 thinks it's in the wrong direction, but note that this figure is still double what it was before the war, so the trends these are quite contradictory, by the way, among those ukrainians who believe in victory, the number here is quite stable, it is now 83%, in principle , various polls during this time showed 80%

plus. but among them now we record 26% of ukrainians who believe in pere among those who believe in victory, who will consider victory even, ah, how to say it, probably even the freezing of the conflict, and when russia will have something left of the occupied territory, be it crimea, or donbas, or... even other regions, that is, for this part of ukrainians, it doesn't matter there will be a victory, so this time the mood can be said to be a change? please can you say that this is a change? well, yes, i think, yes, yes, that is, the numbers used to be smaller, in principle , it is not surprising that they started, that they started to grow, because, well, the dynamics changed, the dynamics changed. dynamics at the front and,

well, obviously people started to realize that this war was going to be a long one, ah, again, there was, there was a shift from inflated expectations to frustration, and so that affected those numbers, anyway, i think , that the numbers are enough, they are quite optimistic, well, look, let's even talk about mobilization, because i really... i think that this is such a painful topic, yes, and here is our survey, it showed, we did it, by the way, together with the sociological service rozumkov center, it is the end of march, and this survey showed that the total number of those who are ready to go to the front is 19%. that is, these are those who are already in the defense service, and you who are ready to leave, 19%, this is a lot, this is

a large number. another 35% are ready to help the army by donating, volunteering, ah, collecting drones, blood donors and so on, another 35, and somewhere around 29% they say, well, our house is from the edge, that is, we should, in order to survive, so we will think first of all about ourselves, well, there are such people during any what wars there are in any countries. such a category of people, but i think that 19% is a high percentage, so before the war it was 22.5%, that is, it fell somewhat, but a little, and then the question arises, if we have such a large number of people who are ready to mobilization, or already at the front.