in terms of the number of people, but it was very small, and when you get there, there is simply no city there, and no relation to you, because these criminals, they mostly served, women, were in the so-called militia, and when you are accepted in camera, then they ask under which article, under which article you were brought, and they know that there is already an article there for extremism, for espionage, for terrorism. and when you name it, they immediately put a stamp that one, another drop appeared in the camera, and the corresponding attitude. ms. ludmila, please tell me about these torturers, of these so-called sizos, is the attitude towards women different from the attitude towards men? you know, i didn't feel it. and it does not matter

if someone thinks that if a woman is not beaten like that, they are beaten like that, if they think that if a woman is not tortured like that, they are tortured like that, there is no difference, and i understand how hard it is there and how hard it is for men , but i want to emphasize that more women who will be held by their hands in these prisons, in these torture chambers, they are mothers. and in addition to physical suffering, in addition to the fact that they lose health, they lose that priceless communication time with your children. i saw women there and spoke with them, who had not seen their children for three or four years, had not seen small children. one woman, i have already told about her, was detained, her son was four years old. what does it mean not to see your child for

three years? another is natalka, her daughters were arrested, she was two years old, she was arrested natalka in the 19th year, so you understand, this girl, this woman is still in captivity, i know that she has already been brought from donetsk, brought to rostov, from in the 19th year, a person did not see and did not heard nothing about her two-year-old. daughter, another woman, sveta, she was also arrested in the 19th year, arrested in front of small children, the youngest daughter was four years old, they simply searched in front of these children, they took away the headphones, even children, children's, and they threw mother in front of these children in the car and took her away. this child

, they told me later, ran, fell, got up again, ran to beg to let my mother go. from the 19th year until now, this girl's mother is still in captivity, and it's just heartbreaking for these women, it tears my heart, because i heard how they cry for their children, how they suffer. what did you feel during those days, what did you think about, did you hope that it would all end well, these days, what do you mean these days, that you were in captivity, you know, at first it was not believed at all that this is happening, i didn’t believe that it was true and that it wasn’t some kind of dream, then i was told that my relatives... applied for exchange of me, and

a lawyer came and said that i had to agree to all the accusations, sign everything, and then as soon as possible there will be a trial, i will have a verdict, and then the exchange will take place, because my relatives submitted me for exchange, and this gave such confidence, well, yes, fine, i will sign everything and the trial would be sooner, but i think it was like that. .. revenge of the investigator due to the fact that i was still taken out of isolation, transferred to donetsk to the pre-trial detention center, and there was simply no investigation, and once every six months the investigator just came, forced me to sign blank letters, and after a year , the hope for this exchange was already lost , after two years , i already had hysterics, i shouted, let it go i will be sentenced, even for life, but let the trial take place, because when there is a verdict, you

are already taken to the colony, and in the colony you can at least go outside and walk on the ground, and not sit in that cage, there is no exit. or at all from it, not seeing the sun, not seeing the sky, because you are simply not taken outside, and then, when the full-scale war began, after a while i was very high in this cell, there was a window, and when you are going to the second bunk, to the second floor, you can see what 's going on outside, and we saw a lot military prisoners, and praise, they were with bags on their heads, they were beaten, i remembered how we were led in this isolation, you don't see where you are going, you fall, you are beaten, they force you to stand up, and it was scary , and i

realized that now, first of all, they had to release the military, and it was happening, very slowly, but it was happening, and the hope... that this release would happen, in the end, it was already almost lost, to me the only thing i wanted then was for that trial to take place, for me to be transferred at least to a colony, and the international organizations like them, do they have any influence at all on what happens to the prisoners, or did they come out on you maybe while you were there? you know, this is also a very painful topic, because now when talking with international representatives of international organizations, with representatives of embassies, ambassadors of other countries in ukraine, or on some foreign trips, i always appeal that if there is no opportunity right now,

just take the job now our prisoners, then let's put some pressure on the international the red cross on... other humanitarian organizations in order for humanitarian aid to reach our captives, in three years there was only aid from the red cross once, in donetsk it was already sizo, and these were very small packages with hygiene products, the most necessary, but they were distributed not only to ukrainian civilian prisoners, political prisoners, but also to military... leninists were given them by all prisons, including criminals, including militiamen who are imprisoned there for criminal offenses, and there was simply not enough of this small package for everyone, and we had to split even this bar of soap

in two so that there would be enough for everyone, but that was once in three years, i know that since... since our exchange there has never been such help, and i know what it's like the need for these hygiene products for women, and this is not normal, there are very big problems with drinking water, in general with water in donetsk now, and this already happened in the 21st year, and women are given just 1.5 liters of water, dirty water from some river, a rate for all needs, for a day and a half. liters of water are not removed to the bathhouse or showers, and women are forced to drink this dirty water, if there are no handovers, if relatives do not hand over some water for drinking, and wash

and wash simply over a hole in the field, which performs the role of, so to speak, a toilet and a shower room at the same time. .. for washing dishes, for everything, it’s just a dirty, very smelly hole in the field, right in the cell, how you were fed, you know, call what was distributed there food, well, you can’t, and even when handouts were prohibited , and there was absolutely no help from... external, well, the only thing that was possible to eat - to cut off a small piece of bread, which is baked there, and somehow use it, it was just slop, it was a very dirty stew, some kind of dirty

fish that has been frozen a thousand times, has already been bruised, and it is simply not cleaned, not washed, poured with water, it barely boils and is distributed together with this water, it is impossible not to look at it, not to breathe in these smells, these... smells, well, it is better not to eat there. ms. lyudmila, perhaps you could give some advice to ukrainians who, well, are at risk of being held captive by the russians, how would you advise to behave there? you know, first of all, i really don't want anyone to end up there, but i understand and i know that even now there in the occupied territories they continue to arrest. the civilian population, for any manifestation of resistance, for any appearance of them, the occupiers, the russians do not

have such a view, not such a word, and we would not like this to happen, but it is happening, for those, if it has already happened , not to lose hope, but to know, just now... to know that the whole of ukraine is fighting here, and there will not be a single moment of peace for me, not for others, until our people are freed. no matter how scary it is, do not show this fear of yours, because they really want to break, they will be very happy if they see that you are afraid of them, do not be afraid, and know that they are fighting for you. this knowledge that they are fighting for you in the free territory of ukraine, that you

are known and remembered, it does not give strength, i also know about it. for the period that you were in polonia, do you know what actually happened in donetsk and other temporarily occupied territories. yes of course, someone new was always coming. cell, and if it is even a person who came to the cell for criminal offenses, a murderer, or for drugs, for selling drugs, they told what was happening in freedom in the occupied territories, you can't even combine it, but we also knew about it, and plus we still have a 24-hour watch, there were televisions in the cells, but russian television... or local, it worked 24 hours a day, and 90% of this

television consisted of informational, so-called propaganda and various other programs, and understanding all the lies that these programs told, showed, still analyzing, watching one and then another program. you found some drops of truth there, because this goebel message was sent by him for russian television, it turned out to be very necessary when they said that for propaganda you need 10% of the truth, and to make 90% of lies on this truth, we were engaged in the search for this 10% of the truth and listened. searched and somehow tried to analyze whether you underwent any

rehabilitation after your release from captivity that helped you to recover? you know, i have unfortunately, there was not enough time for normal rehabilitation, and at that time, in the 22nd year , there was no such state rehabilitation program for civilian pows released from captivity, unfortunately, it is just being created now, but i believe that as soon as if our civilians are released, at least the first ones, then we will find an opportunity to provide them with this rehabilitation. we were dealt with by psychologists, but they were volunteer , er, charitable foundations of some kind, and it was very short-lived, and already now we understand, i understand, that psychological help is needed. what is she should be long-term, that it should be

more oriented to each case, and we are working on it with other organizations, with other charitable foundations, giving our advice, cooperating and developing some pilot programs, i hope that in the near future it will also be on exactly on to... on a normal level for the provision of such assistance assistance. mrs. lyudmila, i want to ask you about the reasons why you were captured. well, about your active activities in the territory of temporarily occupied donetsk region, as far as i know, you helped for several years to the orphanage near novomoskovsk, novoazovsk, please tell me your story, that's how i found out that

this children's boarding school was disbanded. in the 14th year and just went to look and see what the needs were, what about the needs, and i saw the children, you really distributed them in the family, which were unable to support them, and at that time these grandmothers or aunts or there, relatives did not receive a pension. them any financial assistance, neither for these children, nor pensions, because it is precisely this period when it is not clear what is happening, and only this occupation took place, nothing was restored, and the children were simply starving, i told about it to my friends here in kyiv, i wrote to them about it, and

one of my friends, she is taking a risk, taking a very big risk, she is a journalist olya musafirova, she already... . our territory was almost completely occupied, there were some movements of equipment, some mobile, there were still checkpoints and they were very dangerous, because i did not understand who was standing there at those checkpoints, i mean the occupation, the occupiers, but she came, brought some toys before the new 2000... the 15th year, and we went together to these children, collected them at school, and she was also shocked by the appearance of these children, and then we had the idea that she would collect used things for these children among her acquaintances through facebook, we

rewrote what the needs were , what sizes, dimensions are needed and height. all this to mariupol, and i left already across the demarcation line, took these things, took them to the children, also bought some products, vitamins that i could afford, and we took care of these children in this way from the 14th year to the 19th and year after year of my detention, you name it please, spring 2014... was there a feeling that now some terrible changes are coming? no, no, even then it would be strange if someone said that it would be like that, and probably no one would believe it, i think no one believed it, not here in kyiv, not in donetsk, no, not

in novoazovsk , and i saw. that a lot of russians move across the border line, they come, hold some kind of rallies, and generally incomprehensible people come, but i thought that all this was under the control of the authorities, that the local law enforcement officers, the sbushniks, they are behind it they also watch, and there were even several times when rallies were held in our town and... so-called, communists came from rostov, and i approached and tried to ask these people something, while the police stood in the bushes, filming , but did not interfere, it seemed to me that somehow it

should break down, and of course, that... there were a lot of promises for and these promises were directed, and this propaganda was for the generation of 60+, 50+, and these promises that here you are ukraine does not need them, but we will come, and we will have other orders, y you will have a different salary, you will have a different pension, and it was aimed at these people, some of them really, some of them... it was true, but there was information that you were actually turned in by your colleagues in the 19th year, this truth? so i saw, several years after the arrest, they finally decided to somehow formalize this case against me, and they brought it and

had it signed very quickly on every page, because they had to form it all, and i saw four denunciations, from people, two from of them are my... work colleagues, one person, he worked at school, and one person is me i don't know, that is, among these four, two people were these former colleagues, what do you think, why, why were there traitors among your colleagues, why did people rely on russian pensions, why did our security forces, some switched to that? unfortunately, not only some of the security forces have gone over to the other side, and that is a great pity, but with regard to others, you know, i had the first moment when i

saw who exactly wrote, a very big offense, especially to one woman, in some there was a moment of anger, and then i thought that no... everyone is strong, and i don't know, maybe one of these people, maybe this woman was just blackmailed because she had children, and i don't even want to someday, if i ever see her, i don't want to ask her about it, i really hope that this burden remains with her for life. i really hope, but i have no malice, no hatred, no hatred for these people, it is their choice, there is a desire for justice,

there is a desire for justice, but in this case, you know, i would like the only thing that i consider the only fair thing, so that these people, when this whole war ends, when the territories are de-occupied, their names should be named by voice, i don't want to do it now, but their names should be named by voice, and these people have no right to work in any job related to the state, in any job, and so i'm not me i don't think they should be punished, but they, or they should be imprisoned, you know, i'm coming back again, because i don't know... how they were blackmailed, what they were made to do, and most of all i don't want to be like on them, but i just don't want it. ms. lyudmila, i thank you very much

for this conversation, i would like to add, yes, of course, i would like to add, perhaps continuing this topic, that not everyone has the strength and courage and the ability, maybe... to remain themselves, not everyone has the strength, courage and faith not to betray their principles, to their ideals, not to betray their country, but i want them to know about those women who, even in captivity, hold on, and they are an example for me, and i want to say that during the so-called full-scale... occupation in prisons in donetsk seze number five forcibly held a referendum on accession occupied territories to russia, it was done

forcibly when i said that if i didn't go, well, they told me that they would drag you here, they would beat you, but you would be there, and they would take you out, and simply, of course, that there would be no there was no secret about it. of the referendum, there were two guards with batons, there was a stack of ballots on the table , and they forced you to show where you had to sign, what you were for, there were four women in the entire prison, i am two, i will not name names, olya, svitlana and elena, we are about. voted against, of course, that there was a beating, of course, that there were terrible threats, and we did not know how it would end, but it turns out that it is possible

to do this, even in prisons. i know that during the so-called elections, the so-called president of russia, the citizen putin was forced to vote in prisons as well, i know that three women voted against, and i know that there in prisons they are forcing them to accept russian citizenship, they are forcing to take russian passports, you know that three women... categorically refused to do it, ms. ludmila, i apologize, we have to finish already, it is very important, what you now they said, you are a strong person and ukraine should be proud of people like you, i thank you and also thank our viewers, stay with the espresso tv channel.

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muscovites are advancing on kharkiv region, so the police are taking away civilians. how many people managed to evacuate from the border, the first full-fledged underground appeared in kharkiv. and our soldiers destroyed another enemy alligator. the editors of espresso talk about the main ones news of the day today. annaeva melnyk is with you. congratulations. police evacuated more than 1,700 people from the border of the kharkiv region. law enforcement officers continue to deport civilians from the terkonivska, lipetsk, and vovchan territorial communities, the national police said. law enforcement officers urge people to leave, contact the police hotline 102. or

the evacuation hotline.