10 sunday 18:15 at espresso. verdict with serhiy rudenko is now in a new two-hour format. even more analytics, even more important topics, even more top guests. foreign experts, inclusion from abroad. about ukraine, the world, the front, society. and feedback. you can express your opinion on the bad day with a phone survey. turn on and turn on. verdict with serhii rudenko. stay every day. from 20 to 22 for espresso. what to do when there is a liver? alohol, but what for bile? alohol, he and the liver and bile protects, alohol, with care and respect for the liver and bile. dear friends, we are back on the air, lesya vokulyuk, andriy saichuk. let me remind you that today we work for you, we work until 12 o'clock, so this is our final half hour, and for you... this is

an opportunity to still have time to finish these final half hours and make your small contribution so that, for example, we for today in the morning we still have a little bit left to collect one hundredth of the required amount, and the required amount is 4 million, one hundred is 40 thousand, and we are already approaching it with you, 308 with a tail, that's what we accumulated this morning. to atvs that will help evacuate wounded soldiers from the battlefield, you can see the photos of this process right now, and also these atvs will deliver ammunition to the front line of our military, so everything is to make it easier for them to fight and for their lives to be saved, because timely evacuation is very important. qr codes and card numbers under the qr codes are indicated, mono. bank, private bank,

all for your convenience, choose which one you like best, and you can also see it on the title the card number, if you want it to be written in larger numbers, and the qr code will also be on our air, or under our youtube broadcast, please join us, we collected quite a lot yesterday, we managed to collect almost two hundredths of the required amount, i hope the pace will be good today. and you will support him, and in the meantime we will have a conversation with larisa denysenko, she is a ukrainian writer, lawyer, human rights defender, tv presenter, radio presenter and member of the ukrainian pen club. larisa, welcome to our channel. congratulations lesya, i congratulate andria and also hrynetska to the audience of espresso. actually, the reason for our conversation is the gongadze award. uh, what a laureate,

the laureate of this award will be announced this year on may 21, that is, there is still a week left before that, and let's actually talk a little about this award, about the role of free journalism and freedom of speech in ukraine, and especially in ukraine, which is living during a great war, and it is interesting that today we are just talking, there is another date like this, today is oleksandr's birthday. kryvenka, who also laid such foundations of ukrainian journalism, ukrainian freedom of speech, so, two iconic, if there were reasons to talk. yes, therefore, ms. larisa, what can we say about the laureates, they have not been named yet, probably, but what is the meaning of this award today, is it relevant? the finalist prizes have been named so far, they have already been voted on by the chapter, which... the honor to enter

this year is olga rudenko, anna bobinets and tetyana trishchinska. you know, if we talk about the shortlisted finalists, it's three votes for me. this is the voice of tanya troshchynska, who helps us understand who we are during a full-scale invasion, what has changed for us, what... opportunities we have gained, what responsibility we bear, i mean ethical, in particular yes community responsibility, the voice of oli rudenko, this voice is very important for external awareness and the interpretation of ukraine by our international partners, or by those who are not our partners now, and also by people who, as you are going to donate, are also going to donate in their countries and stimulate their governments to support ukraine, and... in our election of independence, rights

person, and in general because we remain and want to remain and be ourselves and develop, this is a war that affects the identity of each and every one of us, and this is anna bobinets, this is actually the voice of the investigator, who represents the entire team of investigators, not only corrupt abuses of power, but also war crimes, which they also investigate and document, if our audience can now find a documentary tape that deals with sexual violence. against ukrainian men, men who were executed in russian, russian aggressors, but you can watch her documentary, he too, actually on may 21 we will announce the winner, this time

you see, we have three nominees, before there were three nominees, then there were also our korizhan women and women, this is marichka poplov. skaite and myroslava berchuk, who won this award, at the moment, whoever won, didn't win, i apologize, this year, it will be a journalist, and in fact, i root for absolutely each of them, because it seems to me that these three names, they are very important in the general context journalistic, and actually in the context of what happened and is happening in 2024. three, three people, three journalists, and three of them each have their own vector, sometimes we hear, even andrey and i in the studio hear from some viewers, we can read their comments under the youtube broadcast, about what

and what are you doing , just sit and talk, why do you say some unpleasant things about our government and what from... happens, why do you talk about some kind of corruption, why do you talk about some tetyana nikolaenko wrote today, by the way a good post, also a well-known investigative journalist, who in the mirror of the week worked now for censarnet, as far as i remember, and she wrote about what is especially difficult now for regional journalists, media workers, because they very easily receive accusations from local authorities that that you are driving the dog away, and unofficially, well, we stole a little bit, well, if you didn't talk about it a lot, then we would finish it. what was done, and you didn't let us steal and nothing was done, and now who won? well, they say such things, and that's it plus the massacre of journalists is now also popular, it is the distribution of subpoenas for those who speak too much at the regional level, it is hardly noticeable and it is difficult to draw attention to it, as it happened recently with

the story of yury nikolov or with the journalist, the investigation info, investigation info, actually just anna babinets, whom at that time, this special operation ended badly for the author of the special operation and the author of the leak, because he has now ceased to be the head of the department and cybercrime of the security service of ukraine. in a word, it shows that it is not easy for journalists to be now, and what is the mission of a journalist now, where to find the right voice, because another colleague of mine, sorry for the long introduction, for example, recently returned from the forum, where he went from private initiative, simply because he has... three children, and he could go to perugia on a personal invitation, where a large media forum was held, and ukraine was represented there only by journalists, investigators, who were also invited, and this also distorts a certain other such optics, that ukraine is a country where it exists only corruption is not good either. in a word,

now the role of journalists is very difficult , ms. larisa, how would you define the motto of a modern journalist during this ukrainian war? and thank you andriy, you know, i generally encourage you to read the three interviews of our finalists, because they give answers to what you have now put before me, you can watch them, in particular, on ukrainian pravda and the interview of anna bobinets, where she just talks about the case that you also mentioned about your colleague, and actually olga rudenko, who says that... we should not turn into a pr agency of ukraine, but we should speak the truth, demonstrate strength, demonstrate confidence, and actually talk no longer about objectivity, because it directly affects everyone and of each of us, and war,

and corruption, and the way we live, how we mourn those who died in battles, how we support our own families, and those... chooses our freedom at the front and in the rear, and we we cannot claim objectivity here, in my opinion, but we have to talk about that we are telling the truth, the truth, in particular about why... russia is dangerous not only for us, we have an active and heightened stage of danger, we are fighting, we are fighting ourselves, but in fact, this is a really valuable fight, and we need to talk about it, and this is the truth, we do not need to insist on some objectivity or subjectivity here, to make excuses for it, this is the truth, we have to give arguments, and you know andria in the same interview with olga rudenko, she talks about. .. the context for foreign audiences, in particular, to understand who we are, what we are

our country, what is our history, how now even for ourselves, thanks to artistic cinema, we are discovering our cultural history, our values, and we have to learn it, and many are already doing it, broadcast it to the world, and in relation to corruption, in fact, you know, i am also very hurt... in relation to what is happening in the regional newsrooms and what is happening in the regions, here is actually the story about countering the disgusting case, which concerns a colleague of the investigative info, demonstrated that we can stop it, thanks to solidarity, i i call on ours colleagues from the regions to turn to all of us, to the media movement in fact, and i think that we have already acquired the skills of solidarity. and struggle against shameful rights to internal

phenomena, we can find a lawyer in the legal field, and actually make joint statements and demonstrate solidarity in various possible legitimate ways in order to simply a protect people, b step on shameful phenomena, so that they in fact, how did the torans disappear somewhere and crawl away, because if we do not actually... show the offenders local authorities or national authorities that we see it and we're not going to cover it up and they're not censored even during martial law and they're just going to understand that they're still being watched, it's still being recorded and you know , it is a general principle of fairness of justice to fix. every war crime, every testimony, and in fact, if our journalists and colleagues will

testify about what they saw, prevented, became victims of corruption, we simply we will record everything, we need to find a language, of course, how we will talk about it and when, but when it is recorded, believe me, in principle, the justice system, it consists of such recorded moments and... recorded testimonies, and we we will not let it out, we have already gone through a lot of training and really understand how not to let it out of our collective and personal field of vision. but again, i'm trying to imagine myself in the place of some of our viewers who will say, well, the journalist received a summons, but before that he did there are some investigations, he wrote some article, made some incriminating video material, but here... there is a subpoena, there is a war in the country, and somehow, it turns out something, then he can avoid mobilization, then, in our country there are

elected and there are not elected , and how to this person, a journalist who received, for example, a subpoena after his material, how should he choose this path, which way to move, because, well, mostly the people in charge will say, well , the subpoena, i must then come, appear and leave defend your country. so something, we have some problems with communication, we will try now to reconnect with ms. larisa, i will remind you that we are talking with the ukrainian writer, lawyer, rights activist, tv presenter, radio presenter and member of the ukrainian pen club larisa denysenko, we are talking about the heorhiy gongadze award, which will be presented on may 21, we are talking about challenges , which are now standing in front of the journalist'. during the great war. larissa, i don't know at what point it broke, or whether my whole

question was heard. yes, something is wrong again, our directing group is currently recruiting larisa denysenko to resume with her communication in the meantime, i will give a small update on the collection. 430 00 hryvnias, you and i, my friend. today we have, and for today we have collected 42, my god, 431 thousand with you, and so we have collected 43,000 with you, thank you all. to those who contribute their hryvnias to our collection. lesya vakluk, andriy saichuk, we are working for you in this studio for another 10 minutes. i hope that we will be able to agree on the challenges faced by journalists during a great war. and i hope that we will be able to hear larisa denysenko's opinion on this matter, because we wanted to

i would also like to hear about this separate room for journalists, which was allocated to them in... the verkhovna rada, and supposedly such a bone as was thrown to journalists, although journalists cannot actually monitor the evil press in the verkhovna rada, as was traditionally the case before the full-scale invasion of with what is happening in the session hall, and the organizers of such a separate room on the third floor associate it with the fact that it is supposedly for the safety of elected officials. also, journalists cannot immediately distribute information that they have just received from the first mouth in the verkhovna rada. and also journalists do not have the right to walk around the sidelines, only people's elected representatives have to come to them somewhere in this room, so we have larisa denysenko with us, a preliminary question, larisa, did you manage to hear? yes, les, it was successful, i just want to say that you should not confuse an act of revenge, a subpoena is not an act of revenge, but it is actually

a constitutional obligation, and well, i cannot be responsible for the ethics of each. of a person who receives a summons, but if a person is absolutely clear, you know, well, conscience in principle, if it is in a person, she will tell you that it is revenge or, in principle, a natural outcome of the case regarding the fact that you have to fulfill your constitutional duty, and if it is an act of revenge, it is simply disastrous to keep silent, because actually we cannot this is... to reduce mobilization to the point that someone from the authorities will decide who he is and what he wants to take revenge for, when this story is public, yes, in principle, if a person is self-confident due to various circumstances, he has, again, whom to appeal, explain the circumstances, well, that's it among others, you can talk to

the principle law enforcement organization or the bar association. and in relation to that there is such a situation, there is such a material, and after it i receive a summons, i am not going to resist the summons in principle, but i would like to understand what this is, that is, it is a natural twist of the case, or it is revenge, the summons is never should not be revenge, it is generally very disgusting, and i wanted to return to the fact that we called these two names at the beginning, that is, actually georgy gongadze and... oleksandr krivenko, i was lucky to be i am familiar with both, kryvenko is generally like that, you could say, he was a mentor, and in kyiv i started working under his leadership at the time, that was 2001, i want to say that now, when i already have the opportunity to teach even students somewhere, sharing my experience with them, i am faced with the fact

that they have been understanding this kind of gongadze for a long time. and his death, his life as well, of course, they became such a certain turning point for ukraine in general to a certain extent, and i am not talking about oleksandr kryvenko, who, like me, can be proud to call such a teacher, i think, dozens of famous ukrainian journalists, and i know whether this, whether this memory should be preserved and whether? i have a feeling, or do you have the same feeling, that we somehow sometimes underestimate the contribution of those people who in the 90s, in particular in the early 2000s , did an extraordinary amount, at a time when ukrainians really did not understand the value of their history, neither the value of their culture, nor the value of democracy itself, for example

democratic processes in ukraine, these people, they are like titans, it seems to me, carried this a burden on their shoulders, and few people... who of them lived to this day, they all left us very early, it seems to me that this was also the price, and i agree with you, andriy, i am very sorry that the alexander prize kryvenka, which was also started, is not relevant at the moment, i would actually like it to be updated as well, you understand, it is very important to revive a person, if i may say so. revitalizing her cause, precisely because of the cause of other worthy men and women, is very important, it is so so the memory that is transmitted, so when a person will tell... about his achievement and he, for example, will be a finalist or winner of the gongadze prize, or the oleksandr

krivenko prize, he will definitely mention them too, that is, remember, with how it all began, independent ukrainian journalism began in the 90s, i want to tell you that the heorhiy gongadze award has a lot of materials that could be used as lectures, full-fledged. to study leading universities or journalism faculties of the country, whether it is done, i find it difficult for you to say, because i do not monitor these processes and i am not a teacher, but in fact , a lot of materials have already been developed to actually talk about it, and this does not only apply to our future colleagues, but in fact it applies to all people in the humanitarian professions, because this is our history, this is our formation. this is an influence on our identity, this is an understanding of our struggle, as it was then, that is why we resisted russia all this time, even i am talking about

independence, which actually began in the 90s, and not earlier, and precisely these names and oleksandr kryvenko and georgy gongadze can explain a lot about their stories, and there is material about it, it should be included. educational programs, is this being done now, again, i can't say if it is being done, but in my opinion there is already material that allows it to be incorporated into any educational processes, eh svobo, freedom of speech, it remains for two minutes , freedom of speech, is it only the interest of journalists, or only journalists, for example, should demand that they be admitted again to the meetings of the verkhovna rada, or should society also understand and... somehow appeal to the authorities in some way? lesya, i am convinced that freedom of speech is the public interest of absolutely every

person in our country. it is not for nothing that all the polls about the values ​​that are important to ukrainians in ukraine put freedom in the broadest sense, of course, in the first place among values, there is also justice and a dignified treatment of every person, and... freedom actually applies to everything, and well including freedom of speech. it seems to me that we are in the conditions of the actual habits of our current government bringing everything to a one-sided format of communication, to me, it seems very important to me is a challenge, a challenge for all of us as citizens, to insist that freedom of speech is our common value, it is not only professions. the demand for journalists, it is actually for our safety, we must defend our freedom of speech, it is very important, if it is not there, you

will not feel responsibility, you will not feel threats, you will not feel the value of each word and you will not feel the value his life larisa, thank you for the conversation, larisa denisenko, a ukrainian writer, lawyer, rights activist, tv presenter, radio presenter and member of the ukrainian pen club was with us, they talked about the award. may 21, as well as the challenges facing journalists during the great war. dear friends, thank you for being with us these hours, we donated 4400, see you tomorrow at 7:10, stay with espresso. petrol trimmers are so heavy, loud and uncomfortable. and you want to have a beautiful, well-kept plot, there is a solution, kors garden trimmers from unpack the tv, hurry up order at a special price, only from

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