72, all calls to these numbers are free, vote, at the end of the program we will sum up the results of this vote. we should have two political experts on the air, they are viktor boberenko and volodymyr fisenko. we are waiting for their inclusion in the broadcast. in the meantime, i will say that the day before, polish defense minister władysław kosiniak kamysh said that warsaw can help ukraine with the issue of returning conscripts, discussions. on this topic are also being conducted in other european countries, so far there is no final decision at the level of the countries of the european union, because it is clear that the majority of men, or some of the men conscripted from ukraine, came to europe as refugees, and here the question is in what way the countries of the european union will help the ukrainian authorities to return the conscripts... centuries

ago germany has said that they will not do this, even though men abroad will not receive consular services, as was already decided before the introduction of the mobilization law, before its implementation until 18 may, for almost three weeks there has been a ban on the issuance or provision of consular services for men who are in... conscripts abroad, germany said that if ukrainians cannot renew their documents in the customs offices, who are outside ukraine, they will provide ukraine, documents will be provided to ukrainians so that they can live and work in europe, and we already have our guests on the phone, this is viktor boberenko, an expert of the bureau of policy analysis, mr. viktor, i you... thank you for being

with us today, good health to you, and volodymyr fesenko, political scientist, chairman of the board of the penta applied political research center. i congratulate you, mr. volodymyr, good evening, i congratulate you, good evening. thank you, gentlemen, for being with us today, as we are asking our tv viewers and viewers whether they think the countries of the european union should return conscripts to ukraine, i will also ask you what you think about this, because the discussion is ongoing, obviously, this discussion will continue... after may 18, when the law changes the order of mobilization and registration of conscripts. what do you think about whether eu countries should go to a meeting with ukraine and hand over or return conscripts, or how this issue should be resolved? shall we start with mr. victor? they are not obliged to us to return our citizens, this is the first. the second is precisely

the european tradition, that is, if there, well, let it look like a pacifist to someone, if you don't want to fight, why don't we force you to fight, then they have no legislative grounds, not only that, but also no ethical grounds, so all the efforts of our government mean something to do here, it’s just such a bluff in front of your own, thank you, mr. volodymyr, well, it’s not a bluff, it’s the norm of the law, the norm of the law must be the same, otherwise we talk a lot, the orange revolution, the law must be the same for everyone, the revolution of dignity, the law should be the same for everyone, and for some reason we now forget during a war, such a war as now for the survival of the country, and for some reason we forget that the law should be the same for everyone, for those who are in ukraine, he has a job . for those who are abroad, it should not

work, and why? i agree that there is not there are no mechanisms for the return of those who are abroad, conscripts, so there are no such intentions, where are the intentions to return them. the intentions are only simple, so that people who are conscripts, who find themselves abroad, at different times, under different circumstances, some illegally, some quite legally, simply. they have to enter the military register or renew themselves on the military register, that 's all, no demands, no, let's say, mechanisms, tools, return of ukrainians, men who were abroad, to ukraine, mobilize them, nothing there is no such thing, there is only a simple norm for them to be registered in the military, that’s all, here gentlemen, the question is how it will affect the... intentions, further intentions of ukrainians who

are now living abroad, it is clear that not everyone fled through the yew, or not everyone bought a ticket at the border service for that, or at a volunteer organization. and they left through the system, not everyone was given a ticket there, obviously there are people there who had the right to leave there, it is clear that the rule of the law works for everyone, from may 18 everyone has to register for military service registration, those who have not registered, and those who are registered in the military register, update their data in the tcc or in the electronic office or in the tsnap, but there are already statistics from the results of the survey of the committee of sociology. only half of the ukrainian refugees currently living in germany, poland and the czech republic are ready to return to ukraine. they cite security, the normal functioning of critical infrastructure, the availability of housing and work, as well as the end of a full-scale russian invasion as the main conditions for their return.

federation. in what way, gentlemen, in your opinion, can the ukrainian state convince those who are abroad, and... there is quite a large number of ukrainians there, up to seven, it seems, millions, to return to ukraine, because it is clear that the situation in ukraine now it is difficult, but obviously, the victory will be ours, the only question is when, and what words should be said now to those ukrainians who are abroad in order for them to perceive ukraine as a state, citizens, which... does not exist and somehow associated your future with the ukrainian state, sir viktor, i think that the main method here is the sincerity of the authorities in the dialogue and not only sending out messages that are like, look there, but

actually trying to do something to make people believe, but i think that is already in the process. of this dialogue, the government and society, the government has gone so far in its incompetence, unwillingness to communicate, that hardly anyone will believe even after the first time there were barbecues there and people shouted that there is no need to panic, now on the contrary, in sumy region, in kharkiv region there is an excess of panic, maybe from the authorities, well so there is no dialogue, and the first is just simple sincerity, yes, the second is... well, as in the preference there is such a concept as laying down, lying down, yes, this is when we open all the laws, what are you looking at, this is when you will return, this, this, this is waiting for you, if you don't like this, we may fix it, well, for example, there in the same lithuania they give

those who return to young people, immediately there an opportunity without an interest-free loan there to open their own business. or it can be programs of the mzhk youth and housing there lending, or the possibility of free admission there, well, well , the state cannot guarantee it here, there is an external examination, but it means some kind of transparent, classy admission, almost guaranteed for intelligent children admission to higher education institutions here, that is, what does it say: we, we sincere and frank with you, come back, and secondly, the first , second, third, fourth, fifth awaits you, thank you, mr. volodymyr, please, and may i have a counter question, mr. viktor, that's all he said, for whom first of all, all this must be guaranteed for those who are now fighting for ukraine, risking his life at the front, and

for their families, children of these people who are fighting at the front, or for those who are abroad, but for whom in the first place? here, here, again , you are right when you say that the law should be the same for everyone, no, i don't, but here i don't agree, or here i don't agree, i'm with you, i'm with you, what benefits veterans should have benefits there, their children should have benefits, there for rehabilitation, for treatment, there for what standards we have there, there for receiving there... 2 hectares outside the city limits or 10 acres within of a big city, yes, veterans should have their own veteran benefits, but we have to lure our citizens with something

. to be in this country, and whoever wants to work in the territory in which there are... interesting opportunities for development, for business and so on, i don't want to be hypocritical, but let's assess the situation realistically as it is. those who left after february 24, 22, they were fleeing the war. two-thirds, if not more, those who left are women and children. and there should be only one policy. there are people who left before the 22nd year, and again, let 's be honest, they left from the 91st year, they left in the 90s, the migration was huge, and most of them. people who left then, they did not return and are not going to return to ukraine, they left in

the 2000s, they left, both to the west to european countries and to russia, guest workers, labor migrants, many people, worked temporarily, many returned to ukraine, those who did not find themselves there, now the war is the main factor, if the war ends, those who want to... return, will return, and here it is not a matter of benefits, the point is that first of all the main condition, this study that was quoted, it is just this is evidenced by the war, first of all, the main reason is the war, the end of the war, there will be no risks, no security problems, then people will start to return, those who left, here is another question, where to return? whether there will be housing, whether there will be work, it is not about businesses,

a smaller part of people can do business, that's it it has been studied for a long time, yes, the main thing here is to have somewhere to return, to have housing, to have work, and then some people will return, some will not, and this has already been proven by practice, even in peacetime, peacetime before the current full-scale war, so here. .. let's not fantasize, let's not invent some, you know, let's not paint potemkin villages and so on, but now we are talking about a moral, here it was said about ethics, a moral choice, yes, if a person did not want to defend his state, now i have a big question, yes, but our sociologists are now recording a split in society, not as a result of the actions of the government, i understand your logic, the government is to blame for everything. yes, we had different governments for 30 years, and each period under different

presidents and governments, people left, even when there was no war, so the question is not in the government, the question is where you want to live, how you should develop, in which country do you want to realize yourself in your country or abroad as a state, but i agree about the state, after the war, because now the situation is different, now i i will tell you, the question is not in words, to those there who have to return, these words and mechanisms, communication will have to be sought when the war ends, or when it is clear that it is ending, then we will have to deal with the solution of this problem, and today , unfortunately, the question remains, we need to survive for the country, the state and us in this state, first of all, and not for those who are currently abroad. thank you, mr. volodymyr, mr. viktor, well , it is clear that in this situation, well, you can't wait for... the end of the war, no to communicate with a part of society that is abroad, the question is about what, about what and how? well, no,

listen, here are the communications that i hear, first of all, you, germany, will give us money, and we will redistribute these funds to yours, to our refugees, the message was, now conscripts are required to be adopted, until the mobilization comes into force , do not have the right. to use consular services, which was also actually a violation, well , all this has been corrected, well, let’s give now what was in the first days, now i tell you, sir volodymyr, communications or communication failures, we have always had communication failures, under all authorities, under all governments, and now there are also failures in communication, not only on this issue, we will talk about them later, yes, mr. viktor, please, mr. victor, can you hear me? we have certain problems with communication with viktor

boberenko, now we will fix it, we will restore contact with viktor boberenko, let's talk about what is actually about communication, we have already started this conversation, there is no such thing, viktor boberenko, he is re-recruiting him, they tell me directors, it is clear that in this situation in the conditions of war it is obvious... mr. volodymyr, it is not necessary to say who is guilty and who is not guilty in this situation, but still, as you say, the power was always in ukraine these are the ones under which... people left and it was not ideal, let's say so, but, well, power is the main function of power - it is to be responsible to those who elect them, well , that is, one way or another, we expect the power to be responsible to citizens , citizens must fulfill their duties, the authorities must fulfill their duties, and when,

if the government does not perform, we replace it or throw it on the maidan, and if we cannot re-elect it, then what do we do? no, no, war, we cannot re-elect it, look, or what do we do if we, well , let's say this, if the government is irresponsible, someone goes abroad, yes, and looks for a different life in another country, yes, someone goes to the maidan, someone, on the contrary , finds a place for himself in this country, there are options for how to live under such a government and in such a country, the options are different every time. and everyone chooses his own trajectory of his destiny, self-realization and so on, that's why there is no simple recipe here, i believe that now it is necessary to clearly define priorities, in my opinion, my opinion, now the main priority is the war against the enemy, the survival of the country, the state, the preservation of statehood, independence, this is the main

priority, the return of those who went abroad, it will be important for us and will be... relevant, but when the war ends, then this issue will come to the fore, well, in addition to the issue of restoring the country, there will be several priorities, i am starting from priorities, now the situation is such that well let's put it this way, she is very contradictory in relation to those people who are abroad, we have to work with them, i absolutely agree that there are big problems with communication, there is no such, i would say systematic communication with these people, and there is not even ... well, let's say this, specifically the body that should deal with this communication, because it so happened that now someone deals with resisting the enemy, someone deals with internal problems, someone deals with mobilization, communication with those who are abroad, well practically no one is purposeful is engaged in, what the ministry of foreign affairs did is a consequence

of the law on mobilization, they did it not very neatly, let's say so, not quite so, let's say correct, there in different senses, but in some ways i understand the ministry of foreign affairs, but we have a discussion inside the country, around someone wrote this, but in my facebook page i saw such a very good saying, someone at the front is storming enemy positions, someone is storming consular offices, there is a difference, yes, everyone solves their problems, someone here works ... , some are fighting, some are solving their problems abroad, i understand women and children, i understand those who study there, who have already, well, let's say this, been abroad for many years, retain ukrainian citizenship, i myself spoke with such people who are now helping ukraine, collecting donations, collecting ammunition for our

soldiers, helping the country even abroad, i welcome such people, i support them. viktor boberenko is in touch with us again, we are talking about communication, about communication with the western world, sergey, using the example of his own family, about refugees, is it possible? yes, yes, please me, she left, i sat in the noise, and on the first day they still managed to jump out, i stayed in the city, and my... family jumped out, the woman took my sister, took the fact that we and they all went abroad, until to the netherlands, a year later they returned, they returned, why, because the family must be reunited, my two younger sons came to be with their father, but the woman's sister did not return, why, that's what mr. serhiy said that and will there be

work here, and also, what kind of work, because she worked here as a teacher of junior classes... and she they offered her a job there, she knits flowers into bouquets, but it seemed like everything, it would be considered a non-prestigious job here, but there she receives more than two thousand euros, here she would receive a maximum of 10 thousand, and my and my good, good acquaintances, well, best friends in general, they are from north-donetsk, and they are from north-donetsk, and they generally have nowhere to return to, and even if they de-occupy north-donetsk, there is devastation there. broken, and they will not return, here is an example of my family, my close acquaintances, when half returned, but i also have a wife, two children have returned, and... her sister and godmother with her children have not returned and are not going to , what we have what we have, and we

will have to lure them somehow because she would she wanted to return, but what she doesn't have is not here, well , conditionally, her groom is not here, and if there is no anchor, yes, and at kuma's, the child will now be 18 years old, and she has already decided for herself that the child is a son, he will already enter a university there in poland and will stay there at least to study and everything, and even then it turns out that the family did not drop anchor here, but there. mr. viktor, i wanted to ask you about the current situation in sumy oblast, particularly in sumy, because after general budanov's statements that kharkiv oblast is one of the maneuvers, the russians may enter the territory of sumy oblast. oblast, which is currently happening in sumy, in sumy oblast, there is some kind of emigration, someone is fleeing from the oblast in anticipation of this forecast, although budanov clarified that he did not mean

that literally, literally, although it was about 3- 4 days after they come in in kharkiv oblast, they say there will be something similar in sumy oblast, well, what can i say in sumy relatively calmly, but just so we know, 20 communities in shinska oblast are under... valuable shelling from the enemy, sumy are included in the number of these 20 communities, but because, well, we the suburbs sometimes fly there, maybe two or three times a week, something to a big city, and some communities, such as the velikopysarovsk community, such as the bilopolsk community, the vorozhbyansk community, the medrenobsk community, well, half of the housing stock there is no longer there, at least . at least, if there are still roofs, the roofs have not collapsed, there are no windows, well, the windows were broken because the cable is falling, then

everyone is forcibly evicted from the five-kilometer zone, even children, and here i agree with the authorities, because if parents do not want to take responsibility for life, health children, then the authorities must do it, from the 10 km zone they are urging everyone to return, but ukrainians are optimistic. they are optimists, and someone left there from the writing office in akhtyrka, from krasnopill, conditionally from bilopil to sumy, but then they return, now they are returning, why plant gardens, gardens at home sit down, but someone refuses, i also have a groupmate, the mother does not want to leave since she was a teenager, so why is there, well, because the mother tells her daughter, and the daughter is settled, everything is fine with her, and she is ready to take her mother, but the mother says , where am i... and we have a lot of such examples, and as for the offensive, well, i am

here and again what we say about communications, when they say viktor, you are probably well informed, tell me, there will be ee attack today or tomorrow, i say, and what does the only marathon say about this, and me people say that we believe in the time of the only marathon, no one believes, so they don’t believe the president after the kebabs, they don’t believe budanov, and they make a decision, that’s all my good friends there, who have a conditional mother-in-law somewhere, somewhere far from the border, conditionally in romny, in konotop, in another region, in poltava, then everyone is ready, only school will end on may 25, in most... well, these front-line communities, it was online there, then the children have already been taken away and will continue exported, and wanted to call on the authorities to remove from these communities kharkiv and sumy oblasts, well, at least for

the summer, there are some former pioneer camps there in prykarpattia to take children there at least for the summer, so what should be done, and as for the offensive, well, it is clear that the enemy will not be able to advance with the available forces , and if he is going to... advance, then he will advance there in the area of ​​velika pysarivka, and not directly here from the suja on sumi, because here there are meadows, swamps, forests, here they are, well, here, let's say, not thin a dangerous direction, as they said during the second world war, but it is so, very, very briefly, i can, i can answer, viktor, yes, yes, please, viktor says that you should not believe budanov, that is what budanov warned about the offensive in kharkiv oblast and about the possibility, about the risks of the offensive. here i refused, mr. volodymyr, yes, yes, yes, yes, i agree with you, yes, but i'm talking about the government in general, which is why no one believes in a single marathon, 35-40%. marathon,

it means that if they watch, it means that they perceive this information, i think that there are also different things in the marathon, there is optimistic information, there is critical information, there is also different opinions, different people speak, i agree, i agree, i go, i go to large communities, how do i know the situation very well, because i now go to communities, there we deliver these rempackets from an international organization, and there from... i know situation, i assure you that there is very little faith in the local administration, the regional military administration, but people have confidence in the majority of local self-government, and i am also there, if i stop somewhere and watch a single marathon, then i agree, there are positive stories, but i will say yes, no they believe the news series, that's why they don't believe it, well, listen, those who say that, it's like corruption, i know dani, we have

real corruption, right? and it existed before the war, and it exists now, but i know the research data, a large part of those people who talk about corruption, they did not themselves encounter the facts of corruption there in specific areas, but they talk about corruption, in this case, when we we are talking about local self-government, about civil administrations, military administrations, but literally yesterday i took part in the presentation of sociological data research on sustainability, cohesion, and there the level of trust in local authorities, not only in local administrations, but in local self-government, has decreased significantly, this is a problem, and i will tell you, the problem is not general, it differs because, for example , in kharkiv, in kharkiv the mayor is trusted, the mayor works actively, in some other cities the attitude towards their own mayor is a little different, because there are big problems and,

let's say, comments on the work of the mayor and... and so on, so here we go again after all, i am against generalizations, when you say: "this is not the case, yes, there is communication on all issues, it does not work, but on the summer camps, on ha, i agree with you, mr. volodymyr, i agree that the situation can change from city to city, however, however, i want to emphasize that at least in me on the example of the sumy and kharkiv regions, that is. but here in the regional military administration they do not trust us, and in how many regions we should do, show the trend, i again, i also tell the students, all generalizations are false, but generalizations are needed in order to show the trend, in general, in most of the time, the authorities cannot arrange communication in such a way that they are believed, because they are often fooled, so i passed. well, president

zelenskyi spoke about the situation in sumy oblast and chernihiv oblast. he says that there is hostile activity against sumy region and chernihiv region. let's listen to what the president said. we also record hostile activity against sumy region and chernihiv region. subversive groups. shelling we respond with fire. as it should. our task is absolutely clear. tear off a russian attempt to expand the war. and experts agree on the fact that russia is expanding this war at the expense of the kharkiv region and sumy, well, in the long run, in order to sit down at the negotiating table with a redistributed map, a new map, and well, at least this is what the leading publications write about, that it seems that putin is preparing

and this activity, which... is now connected with tomorrow's visit to beijing, in order to appear to the future as a person who has victories, who has advantages, who should gain something in exchange for the cessation of hostilities, mr. volodymyr, no, it is not , this is mythology, putin really wants peace on his own terms, i agree with that, but putin's main goal, a strategic goal, is to take control of ukraine. not to get specific territories, not to freeze the conflict, i can say for sure, because i know information from diplomatic sources and not only ours, that it is not about freezing the conflict, there is no such goal in russia, russia wants peace on its own terms, what does this mean , this is the demilitarization of ukraine.