hourly electricity supply schedules, whether ukraine has drawn conclusions from last year 's russian attacks on energy. glory to ukraine, this is the verdict program. my name is serhiy rudenko, i congratulate everyone and wish everyone good health, and first of all i congratulate you on vyshyvanka day. for the next two hours, we will talk about ukraine and the world. about the war and about our victory, let's talk about putin's visit to xijinping and their conversation about the future of ukraine, the meeting of the ukraine-nato council, as well as the blackouts in ukraine and one more important topic - the future mobilization, as well as those who are currently being booked and released from mobilization. we will talk about all this over the next hour with... our guests, people's

deputy of ukraine, former deputy prime minister of ukraine ivana klympush tsintsadze, general mykola malomuzhe and political expert volodymyr tsibulko. however, before starting our big conversation, i suggest watching a video of how the operators of the 8th separate regiment of special operations forces, together with the fighters of the 92nd separate assault brigade, conducted a sweep in one from settlements in kharkiv region. four occupiers were destroyed, two more were taken. prisoner, let's see how it all turned out.

glory to the armed forces of ukraine and death to the russian occupiers. friends, we are working live on the espresso tv channel, as well as on our youtube and facebook platforms, for those who are currently watching us live on these platforms, please subscribe to our pages and also take part in our survey. today we ask you about the following: has your home been affected by power outages? yes, no, everything is quite on youtube simply, if you still have your comments on this issue, please leave them under the video. if you watch us live on television, on the air, pick up your smartphone or phone and vote. 800 211 381 if

your home has been affected by a viela and power outage, no, 0.800-211382, call us, we are interested in your opinion and we are interested in knowing what percentage of our viewers are currently experiencing viela power outages. i would like to introduce today's first guest, she is ivanna klympushazze, a people's deputy of ukraine, chairman of the verkhovna rada committee on integration of ukraine. of the european union and former deputy prime minister of ukraine for european and euro-atlantic integration, ms. ivano, i congratulate you, thank you for joining our conversation. thank you for the invitation, and i congratulate everyone on vyshyvanka day, i hope that there was an opportunity to wear those things that are defining for us and that allow us to feel proud, confident, and always hopeful. it will be like this in a free, independent

ukraine. thank you for your kind words, ms. ivano. let's start our conversation with today's meeting of the nato military committee in brussels, and today there was a meeting of the ukraine-nato council. ukraine's successes on the battlefield are unprecedented and ukraine will have the support of nato every day. this was stated by the chairman of the nato military committee, robert bauer , during a meeting of the military committee at the level of chiefs. headquarters of the member countries of the north atlantic alliance. let's hear what he said. the leadership of russia chose the path of impunity. they act as they please. they actually want to spread their power abroad so as not to lose it at home. that is why the leadership of russia sent hundreds of thousands of its citizens to war and they do not even take their bodies. moscow uses food and migration as weapons. and that's why we have to do everything in this hall now. so that this

plague does not spread, so that the international order is respected. ms. ivano, this week there was a lot of talk about ukraine and nato, about... ukraine's prospects in the north atlantic alliance, a statement by yarmak erasmussen's group or commission came out, which says that ukraine should be a member of the north atlantic alliance no later than july 28, to what extent what is being said in the alliance and what is being said in ukraine, how much it coincides and how much the vision of how we want to get membership, to acquire membership in the north... atlantic alliance coincides with the desire of the alliance itself in the current situation to consider even potentially such a possibility? you and i know that in the alliance the decision is made by consensus, that is, by all members of this club, so to

speak, of the military-political club, and on today, unfortunately, is full of unity regarding the further integration of ukraine, coming to some... other level of our relations with the alliance, and we do not have, at least, a decision to invite ukraine to the next summit in washington alliance and start some kind of process that would determine the specific steps that ukraine should take, how and how the nato member countries see it for themselves, so we have to work. in various other, well, paths, let's say so, and to strengthen interaction with the alliance in various other areas, but not only hoping for some kind of close decision on accession and membership, and therefore somewhere,

we probably still have partners who are actively lobbying and promoting the need to invite ukraine as soon as possible, and there are partners who today... believe that the main thing the priority, including for the alliance, should be to provide ukraine with the maximum amount of weapons to attack the russian federation, help ukraine in the production of its own military capabilities, help in training the troops, help in the transition to the standards of the alliance, not only in the military sphere, in fact, the well-worn, well, if you like, political and wider security, which concerns... er, everyone in general - departments and and and rules and procedures that ensure the defense and security of the country. mrs. ivano, to what extent the situation can change and what should influence the fact that, over the next two months

, the members of the north atlantic alliance still dare to extend an invitation to ukraine or articulate this invitation, i.e. to say that ukraine is starting this long way or to find some other formula or formulation for that the emphasis in the next year and this year be clearly set and that russia clearly understands that no matter what happens, ukraine will be a member of the north atlantic alliance, and that is what nato representatives say, well, you know, you and i still remember we understand that in... vilnius and the representatives of the alliance then told us after the vilnius summit that, well , if we really did not have this in mind there, that ukraine and georgia would become members of the alliance, despite the decision of 2008, when we didn't get a membership action plan, but there

we were promised something, so the decision has already been made to vilnius, it says that ukraine will definitely be a member of the alliance one day. and we hear these assurances there about simply constantly during various different visits, including the last visit of the secretary of state of the united states to ukraine, but at the same time, as we can see, there is no appetite today to move to another level, or something can change during these two months, i do not rule out this possibility, because we have already seen with you during these two years it is full. a large-scale attack by russia, a full-scale war of russia against ukraine, many things that seemed impossible have already become history, and they became possible and became realistic, or something like that, well, a conditional black swan can also happen with regard to our membership in nato,

and whether it is an invitation to membership, i don't rule it out, but i would at the same time, you know, trying to achieve this or trying to... move to another level of relations with the alliance not only demand something from the alliance, i, for example, do not see that during this time with well at the end of december last... when the government approved this annual national program, supposedly a more compact one, which should give us a clear direction as we move towards membership, so that the government initiates at least one, one, at least a bill, which would be aimed at our movement towards nato. it seems to me that only by demanding, at the same time, not making any... political changes at home, which would convince our partners that we are serious and not only from the point

of view of the protection we need, but also from the point of view of the necessary for us, for the necessary for us changes for full interoperability, including in the political sphere with the alliance, are ready to move towards it, but we do not demonstrate such things, and it seems to me that this also does not go unnoticed, or would it change radically? situation, probably not, but it would definitely provide additional positive arguments, arguments to those of our partners who are actively trying to promote this story already within the alliance. ukraine is also being talked about quite actively in beijing today, because a meeting, a two-day meeting between putin and sidzenpinem, began today, and of course, the russians are trying to use this meeting to... convince xi to be on their side. on the eve of this visit, putin said that he was impressed

by china's peace plan for ukraine, however, he did not specify which of these peace plans, apparently the one that was made public on february 24 , 2023, although it is not a peace plan , but what sijin ping says and how he tries to comment is the possibility, as he says, of a political settlement. the crisis in ukraine, well, it is called a crisis, but the aggression of russia against ukraine, let's listen to what the leader of china said. china and russia believe that only a political settlement of the ukrainian crisis is the correct way to solve it. china's position in this regard has always been clear and consistent. the chinese side hopes for the speedy restoration of peace and stability.

then with macron scholz, with ursula fonderley, they all did not give any result, because he is again talking about the crisis in ukraine, about political settlement. putin likes china's so-called peace plan, everyone will flirt with putin in this situation, or him is now trying to negotiate with european countries, with the united states of america, and what about its role in this situation? well, we didn't have to expect that the axis would start calling the war between russia and the free world, which today... is happening on our territory, and ukraine is holding back this whole, this whole attack, when

after he came up with the name crisis, and obviously it has nothing to do with crisis, and the meaning of the word crisis probably needs a big and serious clarification in the chinese dictionary, but uh, but it will be important for us whether as a result of these negotiations between china and russia, whether the supply of dual-use goods to russia from china will continue to increase, or whether china will ignore the risk of chinese banks coming under sanctions pressure, american, american sanctions pressure, we saw a certain, well, a certain increase in caution in operations between. e chinese banks with their russian visas, but at the moment we cannot

guarantee that these operations will collapse and continue or decrease further, unfortunately, it can also, even if they will decrease, unfortunately, it can also mean that they have come up with some other way, like these calculations, which will be well in these reasons for traceability from the west. the world, unfortunately, we see how today china, trying to tell the world about its alleged neutrality, is actually on the side of the russian federation, well, the only thing... what it does not do, at the moment, is not provide, well, a direct military aid to russia, but at the same time, it is using maximum western sanctions pressure on russia for the benefit of its economy and will continue to do this and will continue to, probably, build up opportunities for itself in order

to strengthen its country, so for us it is actually such a serious challenge and... a serious challenge for of our partners, which, well, so far, all their efforts, all their negotiations, they do not give a serious result in limiting aid to china, russia, and you and i understand that if russia stands by, even in such a quasi-hybrid form of assistance to china, it is obvious that it will be possible to cope with such a russia. more difficult than if she did not have this, this serious shoulder. well, not only china can stand behind russia, but also turkey, because politicians, you have obviously seen this publication, they claim that the european union through turkey massively imports russian oil, hidden by another label, russian oil is legally imported into the eu as

mixed fuel, marked as not russian. only thanks to deliveries from three ports russia earned in this way for a year to 3x. it is clear that erdogan and turkey, they are our partners and reliable partners who help us during the aggression of the russian federation, and erdogan is doing his best for us, but he is also doing his best for himself, so in this situation, should the ukrainian side appeal there to the european union or to some international structures for regarding. well, the fact that despite everything, russia still transports a lot of russian oil to the european union, makes money from it, and as a result again finances its army, which then goes to destroy ukraine? of course, it should, and this is not the only question that worries us and that we constantly ask our partners, for example, in this

last year for the year 2023, have increased very significantly by 40%. the import of russian liquefied gas to the countries of the european union has increased, so, you know, you can be proud for a long time that they stopped buying pipes and gas pipelines that go there by land or by sea, practically stopped, except for a few countries that traded for themselves there transitory periods like hungary or austria or slovakia, but others countries that seem to have given up on russian gas, they continue to buy it through liquefied gas, and now we are talking about the fact that in the next sanctions package of the european union, after all, here are the possibilities of purchasing liquefied gas and pumping, let's say in the ports of liquefied gas

on tankers it did not happen in european countries, in european countries i... i hope that once again the issues related to this mixed oil and the issues related to the final necessity, we are already talking about this a lot, a lot time, the need to impose sanctions on, on the nuclear power industry of the russian federation, all these things, they should be reflected in the next sanctions packages, and here it is precisely, well, we should... indicate where we see these problems, we should clearly indicate further, where and which companies are currently abusing loopholes in the sanctions regime and making the most of it, by the way, our lithuanian colleagues are now initiating such a general european discussion about the need

to establish national, or rather pan-european legislation in... in the eu , regarding how they should internally punish their own companies that violate the sanctions regime, or that continue to conduct trade in violation of sanctions with the russian federation, well, i hope that our lithuanian colleagues will not be the only ones in such proposals and not will be left alone and will receive support among others, but this... this, unfortunately, always takes quite a long time, and we see trade growing suddenly with third countries from the european union, for example, with kyrgyzstan. or uzbekistan, and we understand that this is not because interesting markets have appeared there, but precisely because some countries or some companies use these third

countries to circumvent sanctions against russia. thank you mrs. ivanova for the conversation, it was ivanna klympush tsinsadze, people's deputy of ukraine. friends, we continue to work live on the espresso tv channel, as well as on our youtube and facebook platforms. for those who are watching us there now. live please subscribe to our pages as well take part in our survey, today we ask you if your house has been affected by fan power cuts, yes, no, everything is quite simple on youtube, if you watch us on tv, take your smartphone or phone and vote if fan power cuts have affected you hit, 0800 211 381, no 0800 211 382, ​​all calls to these numbers are free, vote, at the end of the program we will sum up the results of this vote. next, we have mykola malomush, head of the foreign intelligence service of ukraine in 2005-10 years, general of the army of ukraine, adviser

to the president of ukraine. mr. general, i welcome you, thank you for being with us today. congratulations. glory to ukraine. glory to heroes. mr. general, let's start our conversation with the situation in kharkiv region. in the kharkiv direction, the intensity of hostilities increased, and the situation was partially stabilized. continues clearing the northwestern outskirts of vovchansk. this is reported by the general staff of the armed forces of ukraine. defense forces thwarted the plans of the russian army as much as possible. get as far as possible into the depths of the city buildings of vovchansk. today, president zelenskyy held an on-site meeting of the supreme commander-in-chief, which was devoted to the main challenges at the front, in particular the situation in kharkiv oblast. as of today, the situation in kharkiv oblast is generally under control. our soldiers are harmed by the occupiers. losses, but the direction remains extremely difficult, we are strengthening our units. mr. general, what

are the russians trying to achieve by attacking the north of kharkiv region? well, first of all , we see that strategically putin cannot fulfill the tasks that he has set for himself by the military, and of course, this is even shoigu's rotation, a concrete example of the fact that those strategic tasks of capturing donetsk and luhansk oblast have failed, so today a new strategy is to blame, striking in other sectors with the aim of diverting large forces and means from the eastern-southern direction, where we prepared accordingly and have the prospect of counterattacks while already receiving military equipment and ammunition, and the enemy knew everything clearly, so we had intelligence information for several weeks that the enemy had identified two sectors, that is kharkiv and sumy. posts for conducting tactical offensive operations, generated up to 45,000 different units of the russian armed forces there, but

the stum failed to attack the kharkiv region at the beginning, because the first sector was really the kharkiv direction, three breakthrough lines, where they tried to pass, they to some extent entered seven forces and at... the spike of the ovchan meat processing plant in the northern vicinity, but this was due to huge losses in three days, they lost only 750 soldiers, representatives of the aggressive forces, several dozens of armored personnel carriers and bmps, the radar system, that is, the first phase of offensive operations was powerfully undermined, and in some sectors there were no powerful ukribryons, because there were various reasons, maybe not uh... actively, some directions worked, but , as a rule, it was under a powerful fire direction every day, the whole, the entire sector and not

only near vovchansk, but throughout, so to speak, the borders of the kharkiv region with the russian federation, so its means of protection, isolated on the border, will be extremely difficult to do , but the middle line of defense and the third line of defense, these are already powerful dill areas, which are one hundred percent to... the prospect of powerful strikes on the enemy, and in a certain direction, which they managed to enter, because there were several sectors that they probed, simulated offensives, and entered just right to those that are already known to us today, in particular, one of the strategic ones is vovchanchansk, but we quickly controlled the situation, raised new reserves, appointed a new commander who really had real experience and real combat achievements in... the east of our country, and this entered just right a new model of defense organization, counter-attacks, striking precisely by means of fire at

a distance, i.e.... tactics in small groups, seizing certain territories or settlements, but we carried out operations to unblock, to counter-attack formations and strike by means of fire according to the reserves that were coming in, that is why the reserves were cut off and these massive attacks failed, and of course, this disrupted the possible strikes of the sumy region, so i think that now... yes, the forces are rushing to the kharkiv region, because it was set the task is to break through at least in one sector, but in addition to the task of withdrawing our forces from the east from the south, because it was assumed that we would remove a number of special forces brigades and battalions, for example, chasovoyar, from the pokrovsky direction, from the avdiivskyi direction in general, it is clear that the enemy will be able to capture hours, to move to konstantinka, to kramatorsk, to... and to other

populated areas of the donetsk region to fulfill putin's order to capture, at a time when we will be engaged in precisely powerful unblocking or striking the direction kharkiv oblast, but we didn't really withdraw resources, mainly for the action of the reserves and partly some special forces that were able to master the situation in kharkiv oblast, so the first component failed - it was to withdraw our reserves with the aim of pushing the front to the east or south, but they attacked , literally yesterday and the day before yesterday and today and time from different sides, and the pokrovsky direction was activated, and robotino tried to capture literally the same period, taking advantage of the fact and counting that we do not have powerful reserves and special ammunition, which they mainly expect to use in the kharkiv direction. the second component is to create a bridgehead for the offensive, the third component is to show the russian society, it is an informational one, that they

capture something every day, it was not possible. and the fourth event, that russia is deploying large-scale operations in other sectors, so that both western countries and during the meeting will show that there are no prospects in ukraine and that they agreed to putin's peace plan. this more strategic task is connected with these exact breakthroughs kharkiv direction and trying to reach new landmarks somewhere in the east and south. mr. general, the analysts of the american institute have studied. war says that the situation in the kharkiv region shows that the russians want to create a buffer zone there or as a sanitary zone, as putin himself once spoke about it, i.e. to create an area between the ukrainian and russian borders that would not allow to hit ukrainians with artillery on the territory of the russian federation, at the same time volodymyr zelenskyi in an interview...

abc news says that russia will not be able to capture kharkiv if we have two patriot systems, that such and such an opportunity to protect the second capital of ukraine or the first capital of ukraine under soviet ukraine, is it the intention of the russians to besiege kharkiv, or are they all - they will still limit themselves to this buffer zone, considering the fact that they did not even succeed in vovchansk from... in two or three days, as they planned, there are no buffer zones, there is only an event in separate sectors to create a buffer zone , it is necessary to really win some partial positions along the entire line, so to speak, demarcation of the border, several hundred kilometers, it is simply unreal, the means he used, the more the consequences we have today, in fact there are no buffer zones, there are separate cells where they occupied or a part. or

some villages that, so to speak, actually have no strategic importance, this is not a buffer zone, we are carrying out operations to unblock there, according to the clearing, and we will destroy them there, no zones that would separate the borders, russia, bierod, nothing this does not mean that we get our reserves and means that were used there today at a distance of 80 km, drones up to 200 km, ukrainian-made tactical missiles, also 2.5%. that is , no buffer zone has been created there, it does not exist and nothing will save the object on the territory of the russian federation, this is the first component, and the second, which we are talking about, there will be no encirclement of kharkiv, with all due respect to what we are saying, that there really is a threat, petrio systems are needed there today to repel attacks by rebelists.