ukraine 0800 211 381 no 0800 211 382. all calls to these numbers are free, vote at the end of the program, we will sum up the results of this vote. i would like to introduce today's guest of our studio, this is larisa voloshina, journalist, political psychologist. mrs. larisa, i congratulate you, thank you for being with us today. good evening, each other. and tatiana vysotska, our correspondent, correspondent. tv channel in european structures. mrs. tatiana, i congratulate you, thank you for being with us today. i congratulate serhiy, i congratulate you from the sidelines of the council of europe, where i am today there was a meeting of the committee of ministers, i am still here, i am still working. thank you, therefore, larisa and tetyan, since we are asking our tv viewers whether the upcmp threatens the national security of ukraine, let's use the format of a blitz poll, and we will also discuss this topic with you, what do you think about it.

larisa, you have a word. i think so, and we are talking about, here we must still distinguish between priests, the congregation and the leadership of the church, because we see that a huge number of priests, they basically have a pro-ukrainian position, they serve, they have there is a mission, recently our colleague with you, dmytro krapivka, described a very interesting, interesting case when he... entered a church somewhere in the east, where he is currently fighting, and the priest there strengthened him with water, he said: well, the moscow patriarchate says : go and beat the adversary, crossed and sent, that is, there is, well, we say that there are congregations, there are priests and that is one thing, but if we talk about the structure, then it still has coordination with the russian orthodox church, we see that in the holy synod before... recently there were

traitors, there were people who are in the occupied crimea are already clearly representatives of the russian orthodox church, that is, the russian orthodox church, and therefore i think that as a structure this church in ukraine is very, very harmful. thank you, larisa, tetiana, what do you think about the threats from the uoc-mp to the national security of ukraine? i agree with my colleague that this structure really poses a threat to ukraine directly, and i want to... for example, on one of the latest resolutions of the european parliament, which just raised the issue that the uoc-mp, the russian church , is actually a repeater of invaders aggressive ideas of putin, ideas of aggressive russia, and it should be considered as an accomplice of putin's crimes, and in fact, even european parliamentarians called on the european union to ban the ban of the moscow church on the territory of their states, and actually yes, it is no longer that... it is

an institution , which works for the russian state apparatus, we are not talking about some religious structure, we are talking about a propaganda sect, if we can say so, well, part of the big repressive machine, the aggressive machine that is the putin regime, because on may 7, when the so -called president putin was inaugurated, we saw kirill gundyaev trying to bless. putin for many years, i would say, until the end of the century or whatever he said, for many years, he said, that is, until the end of the age, but let's talk about more now issues that concern, in particular, journalists and information field, because let's start with the decision of the council of the european union, today the council decided to suspend the broadcasting of four more tv channels in the european union, which...

spread russian propaganda and support an aggressive war against ukraine, this is the voice of europe, riya novosti, izvestia and the russian newspaper, the europeans are doing the right thing, but i have a question, next to the russian propagandists, whether there is a ukrainian propaganda machine, in the good sense of the word, an information field that allows ukraine to rebroadcast or explain to europeans what is happening in ukraine so that... europeans do not watch russian propaganda channels, or these propaganda channels do not shape their opinion, well forgive larisa, let's start with tatyana, since it is in european structures, i think that first of all, what exactly does this decision mean and whether we are present there, this decision itself was expected, because if we talk, for example, about the voice of europe, then this publication, this an online publication that was financed, by the way, with the ukrainian

oligarch medvedchuk, and it has been at the center of a scandal for several months, because in addition to the fact that this publication spread russian propaganda, there are also not groundless ee... if the grounds are not groundless premises speak that it was through this publication that russia financed european influencers, european politicians and even transferred funds to some members of the european parliament, and in this regard, an investigation is still ongoing in belgium, and let's hope that there will be results before the european elections, and regarding the ban of these four publications, i want to say for now that they are not allowed to rebroadcast their news on the territory of the european union, but for now their journalists can still work on the territory of the eu, can conduct surveys, can be interviewed, and the european union itself is now going to stop that too, because these four publications will most likely

be included in the next 14th package of sanctions against the russian federation, which will most likely be approved at the end of june, i.e. very soon, these russian... propagandists on the territory of the eu will still be silenced, and as for ukraine, of course, ukraine is not present as we would like it to be. there is still a large, large, large space for the work of the ukrainian authorities, for for the ukrainian voice to be heard more powerfully, more loudly, as, for example, russia does, which finances and supports everyone who can somehow help it in promoting its informational... agenda in helping russian propagandists, so if yes, it would be good for europe if ukraine still strengthened its voice here, through the ukrainian media, through better cooperation with the european media, there is a great room for

growth. thank you, tetyana, larisa, and what prevents ukraine from creating such a large propaganda machine, well, let's go objectively, there is no such big propaganda machine, there is only one... the marathon is home, there is freedom, i am already confused in all these channels, but the main thing is that we do not have foreign languages, well, unfortunately, there is no broadcasting, you are right sergey, it was dismantled, and in its place , this house or freedom, or both, is a big mistake in my opinion, but i think that the media itself is not enough, because if we look at what russia has done, it spreads its influence, by the way, how the united states spread its influence and in general, they established this interest in humanistic values, freedoms and everything else, it is not only the work of the media, it is the creation

of syntenka, it is the search for those who are loyal to ukraine and the ukrainian position. authorities, like timothy snyder, there are already many, there are many people out there, the same kurt walker, whose opinion, philosophers and so on, whose opinion is important to the western consumer of information, and who will say it better than us , we don't, we don't work with them, we're reactive here, not proactive, and that's very it's a pity, because... in principle, this whole ukrainian lobby abroad is created exclusively on a volunteer basis, and it should not be like that, we must understand, in principle , it is, you know, on the border of intelligence activities, and in principle, strategic some kind

of research, strategic science, where we have to understand where our enemies are, who they work with, who they cooperate with, where the good russians are, what they do, who they influence, we should have just such an institute for the study of all this, where people who, for example, are able to be our partners, c why are they interested, on which platforms can they be invited as speakers in order to establish contacts in this way, that is, this is an institutional work, and we always, when we enter, we, you know, install the tv channel, dismantle the tv channel, turn on the marathon, turn off a marathon is not work. this is what the countries that are under the influence do, those countries that set their own agenda, that are subjects in world politics, they still work for the years of the decade, and maybe even for a century, but we do not

invest for a century ahead . tatyana, how? represented in european structures, as russians are represented, and that is, if you look at... ukrainian journalists, russian journalists, it is clear that there are probably more russians than ukrainians. i will say no, there are more ukrainians than russians for one simple reason. that european institutions have already banned russian media from being accredited for major events, and there are no russian media here or in the council of europe, for example, there was not a single russian journalist today, not even when the european parliament is sitting, not when the meetings of the european council are held and so on, but the problem is precisely that pro-russian journalists still get here through other, if not loopholes, they cooperate with... these european publications, or the same voice of europe that me just really causes a lot

of emotions in me, because the russians just registered a website on the territory of the czech republic, called it the voice of europe, and through this website they were accredited to all european institutions, had access to communication with all european politicians and so on if they were to promote russian information policy among the european ones. let's say, people who make decisions, and, that is, now, if we say, journalists of russian television there, i will not meet some european politician at the press conference, but the fact that there are people standing next to whom russia may be paying, then this definitely larisa and tetiana, well, obviously, without solving and discussing those issues that exist in the journalistic environment inside ukraine, it is difficult to predict expansion there. of ukrainian journalism abroad and even more so the use of journalists in the role

of propagandists, who in the good sense of the word, that is, not russian, not according to russian models, according to ukrainian ones, obviously nothing will work either, but we are now witnessing how unknown people threaten mykhailo tkach, a journalist investigating the ukrainian truth, who wrote, to whom they are writing on behalf of businessman oleksandr slobozhenko. and he was the main character of the recent investigation of unsuitable kyiv rich people vacationing abroad during the war, as removed from the military register, law enforcement officers have already stated that there is a criminal proceeding, that they will now investigate who is threatening the weaver, the weaver himself says that he is a victim in 12 similar criminal cases, so he does not count on the results of the official investigation, but will monitor the progress of the case. let's listen to what tkach said. we do not fully understand, it is clear who did it, for what, someone

tried to take advantage of the situation, is it really mr. svobozhenko worried about what is there, in particular, we can continue to investigate there, for example, the question of his business, taxes, income and other things, and therefore... we don't have answers to this question, what actions can be taken, and we will be able to get acquainted in a legal way, since i also have the status of a victim in this case, that is, i can get acquainted with the materials of this case, to see what work is being done. laris, we have seen that over the past five years, well, on may 20, 20, it will be 5 years since the inauguration of president zelensky, we see. how throughout this period the president selectively communicates with

ukrainian journalists or representatives the president's office there reproaches journalists for their telegram blunders, they came to yura nikolaev's door, knocked, shouted that he was a dodger, well, that is , there were very, very many different events that testify to the fact that what is happening with the weaver is obvious , obviously it is formed by the current team. attitude towards journalists, so actually in the state there are these cases, as the weaver mentions 12 criminal proceedings, well, this is too much for one journalist, why do you think zelenskyi’s team, which is currently focused on western aid, why does it not take into account that for our western partners this indicator of freedom of speech, attitude towards journalists, the civilized world looks at it in a completely different way, i.e. such... are all inadmissible and are investigated much faster than in our situation? i agree with you

, sergey, that the beginning of all this is the very attitude of the authorities towards journalists, that is , a lack of understanding of the benefits of a free press, because the question of the press should not be insulting, a journalist asks you a question, you can give an answer by doing so... relieve tension, which is in society, because usually journalists ask questions at press conferences, those that people discuss in the kitchen, so they may not be very pleasant to you. but that's why state institutions exist, that's why the state exists, to anticipate these questions, to understand that they will be asked and to give them a broad and detailed answer that will calm society. it is the free press that is the tool through which the authorities establish contact with society, not with

journalists, but with society, journalists are only intermediaries here. that's right, when the government no... understands the benefits of the war press and starts to growl, then to humiliate, then to ignore, obviously everyone, everyone else down the vertical, begins to behave in the same way with approval and with snobbery, and that is why i do not know, for example, now these threats, why this businessman, he is doing it, it is his own initiative, or he was told, it is possible, but the point is that let's remember, one of our topics today will be the attack on mr. fitza. but let's remember why the fizo government took off last time, because of the murder of a journalist, because a mafia criminal case, and therefore, when such businessmen on their own initiative, because they took god by the beard or something else, start threatening in the free press, it threatens the authorities, and russia in fact, perhaps just

realizing that there are those in society or other journalists who are important to people. who are the voice of truth for the people, simply because of their agents, or because of threats of such strange inadequacies, so he threatens himself, and the russian agents, for example, think to themselves, oh, that’s interesting, you can disrupt it now and to turn against the authorities, against kyiv, for example, there and washington, everyone in the world, we, we understand that the authorities must protect journalists the way they protect themselves, because they are also reputable. losses, and losses of trust, and the threat of certain disturbances, uprisings, misunderstandings by society, what can, what can the enemy take advantage of, instead we see neglect, or the desire to flirt and adventure loyalists, and such, you know, neglect, ignoring those who you do not like. thank you, larisa, tetyana, how

do european structures react, or do they exist? some kind of reaction, we, we know that the state... department of the united states of america in its report for the 23rd year indicated the problems that exist in ukraine with freedom, words with tv channels that were illegally turned off from t2, with the only is a telethon, for europeans, what is happening in ukraine with the press during the war, this is a marker, whether they perceive it as, well, as a necessity, that some kind of regulation, military censorship is possible there, well, one can somehow consider that during war can... be completely different, well yes, official europe tends to criticize official ukraine a little now during the war, you rightly noted that, but i would like to draw attention to another point, it is not only freedom of speech, not only freedom of speech is important for europe, but also, for example, if we let's analyze the publications in the european media in recent

weeks and months regarding threats to ukrainian journalists, and these publications exist because actually... journalists are well-known, journalists are investigators, and this is exactly where the problem for the ukrainian authorities lies, because because of persecution of ukrainian journalists, investigators, due to threats to them, the ukrainian authorities suffer, suffer reputational losses, in fact, because if the european media writes about threats to the same weaver, it simultaneously mentions that he exposed criminal schemes, corruption schemes, in number of for example, in the ministry of defense, in other ukrainian ministries, and thus we have more and more publications about the fact that the ukrainian government is corrupt, and that the ukrainian government, in fact, for example, the same ministry of defense of ukraine in fact inflates the prices of some services or there, for example food products and actually steals money, and this is a very big problem,

because even if the european leaders are yes, they still tolerate all this, they are ... devoted to their promises to help ukraine until the last moment as much as ukraine will need it, but european voters, people who read the media, people who hear these reports that ukrainian investigators, anti-corruption officers, are persecuted or, for example, threatened, these people change their point of view, change their attitude towards ukraine, and this is reflected in the fact that at the elections they come and vote for radical movements that say, let's stop supporting ukraine, let's stop the lash. let's sit down at the negotiating table with putin and so on, that is , there is still a very big danger in this, because an information background is being created, which demonstrates that ukraine is still corrupt. of the state, and it is clear that the lack of communication, or proper communication between politicians and journalists in ukraine, creates these stories about the fact that the authorities do not

explains there whether it is the president or the prime minister, and for what, for example, oleksandr kubrakov was dismissed, they did not explain either to the politicians or to the society, they simply hired and dismissed the vice prime minister, the person who managed the infrastructure in ukraine, the new kamyshyn can become the minister of infrastructure, and reports about it. novoe vremya with reference to sources in the government, probably the appointment will take place next week. the publication also predicts two transformations within the government. first, the ministry of strategy and industry will become part of the ministry of infrastructure. secondly, functions of regional policy, will be transferred to the ministry of economy, in the department of yulia sverdenko , a corresponding department will be created. well, actually, it's larisa, it's all these events and all these plans, they. need one way or another some kind of explanation from the authorities, as in the last two years, especially as the authorities, in your opinion, have the authorities unlearned to explain

to society and journalists, because journalists still fulfill their mission and their social role and fulfill their role for society, what do you say about this whole situation, the reorganization is next there something, well, that is, to us... everything will be told again in a single telethon, or after all, in the current conditions , there is still a greater number of journalists than there are 10 people who met in private with the president of ukraine today, they still have to somehow communicate with government officials, with the president, and with the prime minister. well, you see, serhiy, there is, we generally have an institutional problem, we do not have, for example , the practice of daily or weekly briefings in key ministries, as is the case in the same joint ministries. states, where it comes out and tells something, for example, and this happens there almost every day, in our country they really do not give us explanations, these explanations,

the essence of explanations, the essence of communication of the authorities with journalists, and constant, is that it relieves the level of tension, the level of aggression, the level of mistrust in society, for that , so that society does not all fall into the betrayal of victory, does not become. fodder for russian propagandists or some adventurers, adventure seekers and audiences, such as, for example, that shariy himself, for this, in order for society to be at peace, it is necessary that with they said, there is no other way to talk to society than through daily briefings, so in this case, we really, i agree with you, we do not understand why the resignation took place, why it took place. organization, we have the impression that something is really being done under someone's name, we still do not understand why the good man was dismissed, but there is simply no explanation, no explanation for anything, i don't think

that the authorities have lost their minds, we started with that , that i do not owe you anything, this is exactly what started all this, and all these press conferences on futkori, it was all such an imitation, it was all, it was true, but this is not a frank conversation with society. "the government perceives journalists and journalism, the press as enemies, and not as a tool, precisely a tool of the government, because the press is the fourth power, the fourth branch, as a tool with which the government can communicate with society, because all we are talking about is corruption, and curtailment of freedoms, all these are the suspicions that fall on the authorities, because the authorities have not built institutions, certain institutional practices, open, transparent, understandable, because in reality there are corrupt people in any society, in any country, when the press writes about them,

society does not, for example, fall into hysterics, understanding that, oh, america is corrupt in our country, or holland is corrupt, because we found a minister there who paid with a card, no, everyone perfectly understands that this is corruption, that this person is corruption. and the state eliminates this corruption, fights it, it reacts and so on, everyone understands that everywhere there are attacks on journalists, everywhere there is a threat to journalists, from mafia structures and the like something else, because there is an investigation, but no one blames the state for this phenomenon, everyone understands that the state is on the side of freedoms, a free press, and it will persecute those who dare, in our country everything is completely different, so the problem, i think, it is much deeper than that of zelenskyi, not zelenskyi, it’s generally just such a lack of an institution, an attempt to constantly seize power

in one’s own hand to rule, as if... god rest his soul, instead of building ukrainian structures, practices, traditions, which will advance us to the civilized world. thank you, larisa, tatyana, if the authorities would ask you, the ukrainian authorities, to make a brief conclusion and give a brief advice regarding the current communication. what would you, what would you advise her? er, to be primarily predictable, because just as they do not give explanations to ukrainian journalists or ukrainian society, they also do not always give explanations to european partners regarding some actions and regarding, for example, the release of kubrakov, i want to remind you of such a rather unfortunate episode, that on the day of his release just before the minister of economic development of germany came to hold negotiations on

the organization. the summit on the reconstruction of ukraine in berlin on june 11-12, and while she was traveling for almost a day, getting to ukraine, by car and train, during this time the minister was fired and it was found that she had come to visit kyiv and had no one to meet with, and such moments should somehow be thought out in advance by the ukrainian authorities so that there would be no such incidents, and that is why predictability is needed, it is necessary to explain s... actions, and of course, it is necessary to fight against corruption, and one more topic, colleagues, this is the attempt on fico, the prime minister of slovakia was shot this week, the writer shot, and now, according to official sources in slovakia, he is in a rather serious condition, he had another operation ,

although... in principle the critical hours and days, as they say about fico's condition, they have already passed, at the same time hungarian prime minister viktor orbán said that robert fico, who was injured, is still in a critical condition, let's hear what he said orban. we pray for the prime minister and cheer for slovakia. we wish him a speedy recovery and return to work. robert fitzo is on the verge of life and death. we are facing elections that will not only determine the members of the european parliament, but together with the elections in the usa , may determine the course of war and peace in europe. in this situation, we would really need robert fico and the conciliatory position of slovakia. after the attempt on fitso, a european politician.

began to report threats to their address, in serbia they announced the arrest of a person who could pose a threat to the security of president vučić, threats were also received polish prime minister donald tusk, well , in a word, everything that is happening now in eastern europe looks like part of some plan of the russian federation to destabilize the situation in europe, before that there were many statements about... that the kremlin is preparing destabilize or commit acts of terror on the territory of western europe or eastern europe, as the case may be. larisa, is it possible to assume that this is all that we are seeing now, and the unfolding of all these events, including sfitso, despite the fact that he is a pro-russian politician, despite the fact that he there is sympathy, putin has publicly expressed that,

that the russian... services are trying to destabilize eastern europe so that there will be instability there as well, and this eastern europe also thought that anyone who would make various statements there in or in the direction of ukraine, or somehow curtsy in the direction of russia, anyone can become a target for some 71-year-old writer who is there, i don't know how he shot, to be honest, it's very difficult for me to imagine that... this the person shot, well shot, the question is why? well, i agree with you that this is why he shot, and is there is he an agent, is he there, he was connected with some pro-russian organizations, banned, all this is clear, but in fact we have to say that there is one event, and this event should be investigated.