in that area, because here dzhankoy, tarkhankut, belbek, it is no longer working, not able to work, at least, or it cannot see, or it has nothing to shoot at, or the ammunition is depleted, and so on, that is, to talk about what is in crimea there is a full-fledged russian air defense system, it would be an exaggeration, although you cannot downplay what is left there, they can do something else, they. they will try to shoot, shoot down, well, but that's the same thing, then, well, there will be more propaganda than a real war. mr. volodymyr, what we can see is how fast you are online video footage of explosions appears, despite all the efforts of the fsb, it simply speaks of some such natural curiosity of the crimeans for such unexpected explosions, or is it the crimeans who are set up after all. pro-ukrainians

record the losses of russians and send this information to all kinds of anonymous telegram channels or to the ukrainian special services. is this just curiosity, or is it still possible to measure the pro-ukrainian attitude of crimeans? here you can say that both are present, it is natural when a person sees something like that she has never seen it, she films it and wants to share it, because it is also... in the environment, friends, there are acquaintances and so on, and on the other hand, well, we see that it is this process, well, it scales, always when something are prohibited, and it is done on the contrary, the opposite is happening, and we can hope that there is an element of patriotism here as well, i don't think that what they convey there are separate, let's say, sources of our development. here in the center, it goes on

the screens, first, it’s like this, it’s different channels, but nevertheless intelligence usually uses this is called osint, that is, open sources of information, open, intelligence of open sources of information, that is, including videos, channels, there are photos, videos that are posted in open access. but nevertheless, patriotism is also present here, and to a lesser extent there are already such desires, let's say so, to show yourself to someone there, especially among the youth, well, but nevertheless it is useful, let it continue and both, because one thing passes in another, and let's hope, mrs. gulsum, i wanted to point out, we just saw on the screen qr code, our dear viewers, if you see a qr code on the screen... quickly pick up your

smartphones, take a picture of that qr code and drop money on rep for the 48th oshb named after noman chelbychhan, these are direct fighters who set themselves for the purpose of liberating crimea, and we are all rooting for it. yes, hrym bizimozhakh, mr. volodymyr, you know here, i have a question, you said that the russian occupiers now have very serious problems with air defense on the territory of the temporarily occupied peninsula. what does it mean that, well, for us, for the armed forces of ukraine, it, well, increases the likelihood of strikes on the kerch bridge, now, which we can expect in the earliest times? in addition , such a scenario cannot be excluded, but the destruction of the kerch bridge will be done, let's say, in time, when it is needed by the armed forces of ukraine, that is, when there will be...

other factors are present, when we will be ready to inflict an attack on, let's say for an assault on the enemy's fortifications and a breakthrough to the peninsula, this is the first thing, because if we attack it now and even destroy it, well, they will start restore it, repair it, as it happened twice already, and they will have neither the time nor the opportunity, and they will remain in the crimea, well , not on the peninsula, but on the island, so to speak. blocked from all sides, without weapons, without ammunition, without fuel, without everything else, they will then have only a sea delivery channel, here we have means of blockade, unmanned boats, besides, new developments that are offered to us, promised by our defenders, defenders, including submarines, including e-e armored ones.

boats, well, there are so many interesting things that we are talking about we will hear about the blockade from the sea, then this will force the enemy to either leave or surrender, let's see. when the next guest will be, you will introduce her in front of the advertisement, well, andriy, you had a question, there was a question that our partisans, in particular, partisan units, see the enemy's manpower increasing in the crimea, well, they are accumulating this manpower directly in dzhankoya, there are photographs that record this, including the pulling up of armored vehicles, this is all overturning the eastern front. does it e-e remain in crimea in order to meet the ukrainian troops in case of a breakthrough, why exactly is this accumulation going on in dzhankoy? the fact is that in crimea there is a process of restoration

of combat units that were damaged in battles in other areas, enemy units are assigned there on a rotating basis. on the other hand, a line of fortifications is already being built there, then even further north from the same, near chongar, near other isthmuses, so that in the event of an attempted attack, and such an attack is predicted by the armed forces, the enemy, so that to mine there so that there would be some troops, because the troops in crimea, after the open invasion, there were no such troops there, here the enemy is trying to do something in advance, he just doesn’t do anything, no need, it is not necessary to treat this lightly, that is why this is how it looks, thank you, well, indeed

, we now see the russian occupiers accumulating their troops in dzhankoya, well, at least the russian occupation authorities report on this, but at the same time we see as in... in the northern region of crimea, they continue to build fortifications, this is how you evaluate these actions of the russian occupiers, can they really be effective, or is it just, well, you know, this kind of money laundering from the russian occupation authorities, the aksyonov authorities in crimea, you know, here on purpose everything possible, and washing and so on, but in view of the process. which are currently taking place in moscow, related to the purges in the ministry of defense, there may be efforts to really build something here, because they understand there, because if the war started in crimea, it may end there, that is, the loss of crimea will be very

painful for the kremlin dictator personally, and that is why they are still trying to build something there that will be called to stop the offensive of the armed forces. we already saw this last year, when they did stop, well, or suspended, if we say so, our offensive, well, for various reasons , we did not succeed, but next time we will take into account the mistakes and miscalculations of the past and do everything possible, besides, crimea, well, it is not so impregnable, such a fortress that cannot be conquered to take, whoever builds there, their historical experience. that all those who attacked crimea later captured it, one way or another, it was done in different ways, by different means, but nevertheless all this ultimately led to the capture of crimea and

the resolution of the issues of the side that attacked, so it will be this time as well, because it is impossible to build something impregnable in the stony crimea. questions about the naval forces, well in this case the russian naval forces on the crimean peninsula, do they still have warships there, or all warships have been withdrawn to novorossiysk and other ports, and if they remained, how do they hide them from the ukrainians? naval drones, are some additional obstacles being built or hidden between non-civilian ships, are there any other tricks that we do not know about, we have two minutes, mr. volodymyr, the enemy is leaving a certain number of ships,

mainly in sevastopol, they are there under repair, they receive ammunition there, carry out some transportation, this is what the vdc does, they really do, they mask them, first of all from above with nets near the berths so that it is not visible what is there and why, they are constantly rearranged, damaged ships are placed where they were not standing... damaged between civilian ships, between auxiliary ones, so that a missile, this is the last example was when it was attacked the rescue ship of the commune was accidentally hit by a missile, it was going to another target, well, this is such a thing, this is war, but the enemy also hides against the ship in the ports only because he is afraid of going to sea, they carry out transportation at night, check the route in advance, ahead there they control everything. that is, this ordinary transportation novorossiysk sevastopol turns for them into a whole

operation with the involvement of aviation, surface and underwater forces there and so on. i am not talking about the launch of missile carriers into the sea, this happens very rarely, and it also turns into an operation that is immediately fixed by our development means, but for now we are waiting for the appearance of means of destroying underwater carriers, so we will continue to wait. thank you very much, mr. volodymyr, chuhsaglen, for taking the time to join our broadcast. volodymyr zablotsky was in direct contact with us. defense express naval expert, first morning captain retired. thank you, but we are not saying goodbye, we have a short break, later in this studio will be the historian, tv presenter and journalist gulnara abdulaeva, we will talk about the anniversary of the deportation. genocide of the crimean tatar people, do not switch, see you soon! verdict with

serhii rudenko, from now on in a new two-hour format, even more analytics, even more important topics, even more top guests, foreign experts, inclusion from abroad, about ukraine, the world, the front, society, and also feedback, you can express your opinion at the end of the day with a phone survey, turn on and on! verdict with serhii rudenko, every weekday from 20:00 to 22:00 at espresso. silyamoliikom, we welcome you to the joint broadcast of the first crimean tatar tv channel atr and the espresso tv channel. i, guls khalilova, work for you in the studio, and my colleague andriy yanitsky is in direct contact with us. in this block of our program, we will talk about... the anniversary of the deportation, the anniversary of the genocide crimean tatar people. yes, and, but

before we get to the topic, i would like to remind you that this broadcast is also broadcast live on the atp and espressa youtube channels, and if you watch it on youtube, be sure to like it, subscribe, set the bell , comment on this episode on youtube, it is very important for other people to see this broadcast, this is also how internet technologies work, well, may 17 was probably the last day in 1944, when the crimean tatars went to bed, no suspecting what awaits them on may 18 already in the morning, all these horrors that later befell the crimean tatar people by order of... dictator stalin, and for the next at least 50 years crimean tatars lived in the hope of

returning home, returning to crimea, and today 80 years have passed, but this pain , it will never be forgotten, and especially after the occupation of crimea in 2014, we see how the russian... the occupying power de facto continues the hybrid deportation of the crimean-tatar people. we will talk about this today with historian , journalist and tv presenter gulnara abdulaeva. she is with us in the studio now. we welcome you. silam aleikom. alek silam. congratulations. andrii, i'll start then. and then you will go ahead and ask your questions. okay, you don't mind. yes, of course, of course. so. gulnar khanom, well, i would like to start with such

a general question, how the ussr prepared for the deportation of the crimean tatars, and why exactly in 1944 stalin sought to simply evict the crimean tatar people from the peninsula. that's over, if i'm not mistaken, 200,000 people at that time. and among them only people of the deceased age, women and children, because the best sons of this nation. the men of the majority, they had already fought on the fronts of the second world war, and stalin simply had an opportunity to deport an entire people at this time, because... this is exactly the moment, and of course, this deportation, it was prepared for more than one year, and of course it is necessary there was some reason for this incitement to deport the crimean tatars, and we only know that there are documents that in april a document was submitted for stalin's signature to deport the crimean tatars as anti-soviet elements who

inhabited by those who cooperated with the occupiers, that's why... similar, but in fact, it was just the same reason, that fear of this people, which is worth something because it is the indigenous people of this peninsula, stalin had, as we know , his plans for the peninsula, but all this started a long time ago, since stalin's repressions in 1938, when there were already slogans that crimea without crimean tatars, that is, crimea, uh, should be, was clean of this. of the soviet element, as they expressed it then, and we know that, for example, on april 17, 1938 almost the entire crimean tatar intelligentsia had already been shot, and then in the 39th year, as we know, the second world war began, and of course this moment was postponed, because we know that already

in the 41st, at the end of 41- oh, in 1942, crimea was completely occupied by the germans, and then... there was also a partisan movement in crimea itself, led by makrausov and martynov, and they did not cope with this partisan movement, i will not go into historical realities, how how the germans entered the peninsula and that there was practically no one to defend it like them it was occupied very quickly. the partisan movement was a failure, but they did not recognize their right, and they wrote a report to... the kremlin that the crimean tatars were to blame for everything, that is, they did not support, they generally cooperated with the germans and the like, and this report was taken took into account, but of course they could not do anything, that crimea was occupied, then already when crimea was completely liberated by the second ukrainian front in the spring of 1944, the crimean tatars, like

other peoples who inhabited crimea, gave birth victory, they did not see. what is the difference between red army soldiers, yes, red army soldiers and nkvd soldiers, who then after the second ukrainian front, they entered crimea, because the deportation operation was already being prepared, and here are 32 nkvd soldiers, they started the same terrible terror, at first, as we we know, there was a population census that they conducted, the crimean tatars, of course, did not suspect anything, just like everyone else, because it... happened in such a very secretive way, well, that is, it is a tradition of the kremlin that it was very secretive and no there was no information, and i want to emphasize that at that time there were a lot of people, that crimea was liberated, and many crimean tatars, who happened to be in the war and who were nearby,

were given vacations, and they were just at that time in crimea, they were on vacation, and we know that the history is like this... the sultan also gave him three days to be with his relatives on vacation at home, but this was all done on purpose so that the terrible occupation was really already being prepared, and that's exactly what is cynical about this deportation, what exactly are these soldiers, well the crimean tatars, they didn't count, they were soviet soldiers and the nkvd, they didn't count it, and they often fed them. those same soldiers, and these same nkvd soldiers, who were supposed to come to their homes in the morning, joined the crimean tatars in the evening, because they invited them, they saw them as liberators from the german occupation, because really, these were the horrors of the occupation, and on and on the morning at four in the morning at four in the morning to

almost every house you can say, because a lot of people who survived the deportation at four in the morning in... to testify they broke into their homes and simply announced that they were collaborators in the name of the soviet union, and at that time the men were still at war, when they came to women, to ordinary elderly people, and to children, yes, by the way, you can to say that until the year 44 there was only the crimean-tatar language in crimea, whoever inhabited crimea, except crimean tatars, they were russians, ukrainians. all other nationalities, they all understood the crimean tatar language, and before you imagine yourself at four in the morning , some soldiers are coming up to you, saying something russian, which you do not understand at all. and you will be accused of something, and someone was told that they were being taken out for execution, well, this is for example, on the example of my family, who did not take anything at all, because they said that he was taking you

out for execution, others were given 15 minutes, some in the pubes, they were lucky for half an hour, so, what could these confused people take with them, well, some some trinket, some something valuable, and that's how they took them all out of their homes and that's it, precious. lendless was working just then, and the same ones were coming to the ussr just then brand new studebakers and fords on lendlease, and on these studebakers and fords , the crimean tatars were taken to the nearest railway station, and the same wagons for transporting livestock were waiting for them there, and eyewitnesses say that these wagons were the only ones transporting livestock there, there was straw and manure and then they just drove away. people, in spite of people, and it was just such a moment that people also testify that people, and those who were not transportable, they were simply destroyed,

physically destroyed, those who resisted, they were also destroyed, they were simply shot, and those soldiers who were given leave, who were told, we fought, we, we, we, what traitors we are, but simply plucked the shoots and also said that they were traitors and all this was made up, that is, they were also deported... who resisted, they were also shot, that is, it was really such terrible conditions, and if you saw the movie hightorm there, yes, it really conveys such a small part of what was really happening, it was just horrible, and in such cattle cars there were 67 echelons that were not beaten by a baton , that is, there was, that is, it is not very much and not very little, so are these 67 echelons, they were to... to central asia and the urals, yes, to uzbekistan, the majority of the majority were resettled to uzbekistan, well, no one expected the crimean tatars there, of course, we

do not know the exact data and figures, how many died in general, so that we know that this is a very rich figure for the first years, for during the deportation and in the first veil , 46.2% of people died, these data are national. the movement of the crimean tatars, who were still investigated, and there is also evidence that when, for example, they were brought to uzbekistan, of course no one there i didn't expect it, but the local population, well, they didn't know who the comrades were in general, yes, and that's why they were told that they were going to see you there in general, well , just terrible people, and they were told about it there by these legends, of course they were met as enemies , and of course they were treated like that, but later they... already understood that the language is similar, somehow, and the faith is the same, and a little somehow it got better, yes, but still, it is a different land, it is a different climate, people are very many

died and died, and these are the diseases that were there, and then there were also such reports, there are, this is already the first time, well, 80 years have passed, a lot of documents have already been declassified, and people who were admitted to hospitals, they, they just didn’t go there, well... didn’t leave here, because everything was done to them so that they wouldn’t recover, that’s very a lot of this was done, and it was not for one broadcast. my colleague andriy has a question, and to andriy, if we are talking about the intentions of stalin's leadership, was this intention to destroy the truly crimean tatar nation, to dissolve it among other peoples and to mix it up so that the crimean tatars would forget it altogether. who are they such an intention was true, because there were not millions of crimean tatars, well, for example, i am with ukrainians, because ukrainians, in principle , could also suffer the same fate, because ukrainians

are lucky that there are many of them, they simply could not physically be all crimean tatars could be brought out, because at that time more than 200 thousand people lived on the peninsula, because we know, as i have already said, there were many men on the fronts of the second world war. and of course, it was done in order to destroy. moreover, when the crimean tatars already were in the cities of deportation, they were forbidden to use the crimean prefix at all, that is, they were equated with all, well, with all tatars who lived at that time, well, first in the space of the russian empire, then the rs fsr, that is, this includes kazan, bashkir, siberian, astrakhan tatars, that is , there are a lot of them, and the crimean tatars were forbidden to use the crimean prefix, that is, we for... 70 years, the crimean, crimean tatar people practically disappeared from history, but at the same time, mrs. gulnar managed to crimean tatars to preserve their identity and... and i heard different

memories and knew that among themselves, for example, crimean tatars even very carefully mentioned the history of crimea, the history of deportation, deportation, they tried not to tell the children about it, many crimean tatars said that grew up and were born in uzbekistan or tajikistan, that until a certain age they did not even suspect that there was a deportation, because their parents protected them in this way and tried to protect them from the repressive one. communication system, but nevertheless the memory remained quite powerful even in the 90s the process of mass return of the crimean tatars began, how was it possible to preserve it, what contributed to this, whether it was the mejlis, how unique such a structure of self-government was, or some folk traditions, or some intellectuals who preserved this memory and nurtured it. what are

the secrets of maintaining identity? well, here i can say that our identity is very similar to that of ukrainians, because when a disaster or tragedy happens to us, we consolidate, the crimean tatars also consolidated, they preserved their faith, language, they did not mix, well, in principle, something there, well, the uzbeks are also muslims, at least, no, a lot of them consolidated here so that the peoples would not mix, so that they would not dissolve, if, for example, separately in the crimea until the year 44 there were three sub-ethnic groups of the crimean tatars, and they are, yes now, but they did not mix, these are the southern coasts, those mountainous regions, the steppe peoples, they did not mix with each other until the 44th year, already in deportation, when it was necessary to somehow preserve their people, of course they already mixed, and i can say that the crimean tatar people are still in stage of ethnogenesis, yes formation, that's why we

are already here a little... the steppe peoples have mixed with the sgoryans, but we are crimean tatars anyway, that's what consolidated us, but i want to note that maybe these are really separate families, families, they and did not tell their children about such a tragedy, but i can say that most of them did tell, and the crimean tatars literally from childhood, i can also say that the guls, and i, knew what deportation was from childhood, we experienced it, it is already with us mother's milk gave all this so that... we knew about our tragedy, and it was like this, you know yes, it is true, it is possible, as psychologists still say, that this is such a trauma, but this trauma must be lived through in order to heal from it and move on, so as far as i understand, even in the 80s it was dangerous to talk about it, and to say that the criminal stalinist regime, even the stalinist regime,

was already a cult of stalin. the vajda cult was condemned, but nevertheless it was dangerous to talk about it and condemn the soviet authorities, that's why i said that not all children were told, because they were simply protected , not because they did not want it to be preserved information, probably already there at a more mature conscious age they told when the return started at 9, i wanted to ask about the return, how easy was this process, or in the year 91, with the collapse of the soviet union, was it so easy to get together and return in the crimea, whether the procedure for returning the property that was taken from the crimean tatars in the 1940s was followed, we know that this happened in the baltic countries, and whether this was the case in ukraine, and whether the crimean tatars were allowed to return to sevastopol, to

the south coast of crimea. or after all had to find a place in the north of crimea and in the steppe part. of course, no one expected crimean tatars in crimea. of course , they said that where are you going to return, because we know that since the 60s and 70s there has already been such a movement, the national movement of the crimean tatars, and a lot of people already at that time were talking about the need to return, and what... we were accused of that, and that is, it was such that people were already coming out, some of them were brave, who came out with slogans, return the homeland to the crimean tatars and return crimean tatars to the motherland, but of course, those people, of course, it was soviet times, and a lot of them came because of...