here, it is at least political, if not military, for ukraine to recognize itself as part of russia, or as a vassal country of russia within the borders dictated by putin, but how many years and efforts will be required for this, it is absolutely realistic, i would say, such a policy that is expressed in personnel changes, and why, why not, and by the way, he took the same white-bearded man with him to beijing, not yet... defense minister shigu recently met with his chinese colleague, and now, in fact, everyone is having this conversation in belarus, this is a conversation about the future of military-technical employees and bilausov, unlike whom he understands this much better. and i want to add one more topic, a hot topic this week, the prime minister of slovakia robert fico, he was attacked on may 15, i'm interested in this aspect, will russia resort to manipulation regarding ukrainian? parties,

since fico is not a supporter of ukraine openly, will russia use, promote narratives through its propaganda channels, maybe, but no one will seriously believe it, first of all, because there is nothing mysterious about this assassination attempt, there is a specific person, this person is detained, he was not hiding from anyone in particular, and the political views of this person clearly also do not correspond to the possibility of imposing there, not some narratives. ukrainian, well, that is, in slovakia itself, as we can see, there is not a single person who would somehow tie it, in slovakia it is tied to the atmosphere of such tension in society, and by and large, tension in society is the moment that otherwise associated with populist, i would say such pressure on the political life of many european countries, i am afraid that this is not the last castle, because if there is such a european... to live in such, i

would say, a situation of mutual hatred, which is created by politicians like robert fidtsov, then people can ideas about what is possible and what is not possible can change, that is , instead of political struggle, they will choose to shoot, it is dangerous, and again it brings us back somewhere to the 19th century, just us, just this century, it is like that, political murder we... are possible, attempts to reshape foreign borders are possible, it's just a jump, you know, we found ourselves somewhere in 1865, there in the 70s with artificial intelligence and nuclear weapons, well, it's not pleasant, but somehow we have to survive at this moment, with the same intentions, you know, in authoritarian regimes, there were some, but today we talked about... the day

of the deportation of the crimean tatars, the day of their actual national genocide, but this did not begin during the second world war, it began during the time of the russian empire, in the 19th century, by the way, they actually ended, but it was the finalization of everyone of these actions, when the russian empire annexed crimea, 90% of the population there were crimean tatars. and there was a clear understanding that with such a population you will not build a naval base, you will not create the possibility for you to have a loyal territory there that will be used as a springboard, including against turkey, and start driving out the local population, so that somewhere in the 20th century it was already an absolute minority, and this minority could be safely loaded into wagons and taken out of the vault. seats, but this is

a minority, because the majority was in fact driven out by the annexation itself in the time of catherine, well, when we are talking with you now about the fate of ukraine and everyone is asking what will happen here if russia wins, it will not be 1944, but it will be like in crimea then, there is now an overwhelming majority of ukrainians the population, how much there is, also essentially 80% ethnic ukrainians there. well, how loyal are they if we want to turn this territory into such a bridgehead base for threats to the west? well, it is necessary to somehow make them travel somewhere in europe , kill someone, imprison someone, expel someone, especially if it is immigration creates a crisis in europe itself, and it's great, we'll have people here like in siberia, well, someone there who wants to move here from the russians, the land is good, the conditions are not bad, it's... we'll rebuild

better than it was, but there will be fewer people, well , i say conditionally, what does less mean if we have 28 million ukrainians now, and some 8 million of them remain there, and some 20 million or 15 are resettled to the occupied territory from some siberia or the far east, where people all after all, they don’t really want to live, are they from central russia, well, what are you and all of ukraine, it is the same as there were the same 28 million, only foreigners, like in crimea, who live there compared to the 18th and 19th centuries, when the population came, who started living after 1944, the population moved from... russia, and partly from ukraine. who moved after 2014? well, this is what awaits us, by the way, i think that people should also be told clearly about this, because when they say, well, what will happen, nothing will happen, you will not be here, and it is simply because this moment

when you could, even if you wanted to prove your loyalty to the russians, has already passed, this one the train has left, even if you convince yourself that you are... ready to wave the russian flag and say that putin is your president, he will not believe you and do the right thing, because you will actually hate him, you will know , who bombed your city, just as it was in crimea, where they began to transport these ukrainian servicemen somewhere to the far east, so it will be with mariupol, where the remaining population will be gradually absorbed, resettled, there will be some special programs for moving to siberia and... the east, in other people will live in mariupol, if they remain under the control of russia, this will be the case with the whole of ukraine, and we have to say this so that the people who live here do not have any illusions, no, of course, not everyone, you won't drive everyone out, a quarter will remain, well, you can even sit down and count, that is

, everything will simply increase and increase along the way of advancement, the number of people who will have to get rid of, that's all, so that's what this war is about, it's about this, and this in fact, we are also... describing the 19th century and the 20th soviet, well we have such a situation that no matter what we do, we fall into a time machine, who knows where, well, today is exactly 80 years since the genocide of the indigenous people of crimea, about the fact that you said that ukraine could be left without ukrainians , these are the lessons we have to learn from the year 44, and what is russia doing now with the crimean tatars? in crimea, she marginalizes them, it is clear what she is doing to them, if people there live under constant, constant suspicion, if they do not feel, if the state does not feel them loyal, even if they want to be loyal, that

they, what can be done with them, someone sits, comes to someone with searches, to someone they may not come, but he understands that this can happen, listen, since i myself belong to such a people who are always... under suspicion of the soviet union, some served their time, some were in prison, some could be shot after years, if not ten years of dedicated work for the regime, what do you get, here are all these people who lived in the soviet union, from some communist activists to dissidents of jewish origin , that they all did not understand what they were in the same boat, and those who wanted to move... to israel believed in the zionist idea and those who were members of the central committee of the party and glorified communism and talked about the friendship of peoples, everyone understood that they were not trusted, everyone, like you from you can live with this, it is more difficult for you than your fellow countryman of a different ethnic

origin, because you actually turn into a stranger in your own country, you have citizenship, the opportunities are not the same, but... the truth is that you are not alone trust, and others will be afraid to deal with you business, so that the very story with you does not affect their, their own loyalty and their own fate, and it's not only about, sorry, career, it's about an ordinary personal life, how can you, relatively speaking, get married with jews, you will simply destroy life for yourself and for your children. they will already write in the questionnaires that they have a jewish father or a jewish mother, what’s next, it means they won’t be taken there and there, there and there, half of the opportunities for a wonderful soviet person will be destroyed, why would you do that, marry a russian or a ukrainian , you will be happy, married a married a ukrainian, it also

turns out that not everything is so good, well, not such a level of suspicion, but there is another level of contempt, and this is how you live, but the crimean tatars are now in this soviet period... only in a much tougher form , in the stalinist form, they face him, and this is a huge tragedy, a small nation, that is , in fact, those people who... were able to hold on to crimea after the practical complete expulsion of their compatriots, simply to hold on to this land, and who were all expelled, then part the big one was able to return using the situation of a bigger one, i would say open borders, opportunities, and again they are under this pressure, and i repeat again, it doesn't matter if you serve. in this regime , you treat it neutrally, you generally try, well

, just don’t think about what kind of state this is, also, many people live like this, in every country , many people live like this without thinking about it, or you think about it and want to to fight this, you are all equally under suspicion, indifferent, indifferent and those who want, who want to serve, and that's it the biggest tragedy, the biggest tragedy, when your national origin, it speaks about it quite holocaust there. we can say that the famine of the ukrainians in the 1930s does not give you the opportunity to hide either under the umbrella of loyalty or under the umbrella of indifference, there is no place where you could hide from the regime, this is a real abuse of a person, when in fact he is responsible for a medieval account, again, when there is nowhere to turn, if you are different, then you are the enemy. and it might seem that in the 20th century this is not possible to be, but stalin expelled not only

the crimean tatars, he also resettled a huge number of peoples, a large number of people died, these peoples never recovered normally demographically, and then it was also surprising that some part of the peoples was returned, the crimean tatars, the volga germans, who were a huge amount. did not have the largest public organization in the history of the soviet union in general, the germans in general, because there were practically all germans united in this organization, so much so that they wanted to restore their identity, turks, meskhitians, not they let me go back, and it always surprised me because i didn't live in the time of the return of the peoples in the 60s, but i lived in the 90s, so everyone thought that it was as if it was normal, that if i was german, then i should live in temir in... well, in some way there, and i can't get out of here,

simply because i'm german by birth, i can't live in moscow, in kyiv, in st. petersburg, i can't study where i want, i can't work where i want, not because i'm, let's say, an anti-communist, i can't serve, by the way, where i want, i can only serve in construction battalions, that is, there were special military units. armies, where they took germans, bulgarians, poles, there, relatively speaking, jews, all hopeless peoples, they didn't have to hand over weapons, because an international state, but you can't keep it in your hands, you don't know where you will shoot, no , and it was an incredible impression for me that i was living among people. for whom it is some kind of norm that no one says: god, we live in some kind of hitler's reich, how can a person by his

origin not have something, how can to limit people's movement, how can you limit people by their professional choice, army service, whatever, how are these people, if they live in this country, what do they think about it, surely everyone dreams that it has disappeared somewhere, how can one treat ... countries just want it to go away eventually, well we all felt that way about it, and so i think what makes us different from the russians, because they didn't feel like a nation, people could feel who were anti-communist , who were against authoritarianism, but if you're russian, you're not was an exile, for them, of course, the collapse of the soviet union was a tragedy, they could cry there when they watched this red flag descend from the kremlin, and even their tricolor did not make them happy, but for us, for the people... who we are understood that we live in a wild absolutely nazi state that they built, this is their national

project, it was a great happiness for us, their tears were also a great happiness for us, each of us could not help but rejoice, be a crimean tatar, be be a german to the jews, and as it turned out, to the ukrainians as well, i couldn't help but rejoice in their tears, it's good that they cry, because they just built, they had the opportunity to build an equal state for everyone, but they always... wanted to divide people into classes, and here is the answer, as if it were something normal, and they proved all the time that it should be so, and they continue to do it, which is interesting, aren't we... this is not the end of 80 years of genocide of the crimean tatars, we we say, we celebrate in the days when the crimean tatars are again actually under threat as a nation, that's all, well this is the only statement i heard from my parents that the soviet union is a prison of peoples, well, yes, so factually, as taras shevchenko said, i will put three dots. problems with the joints

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much more already at 21 on espresso. sabbatical political club returns to ether, we will continue the conversation with vitaly portnikov. mr. vitaly, literally today it appeared that several overseas territories of france, new caledonia have gone out of government control, what is happening in this region now and what are the reasons for this, these uprisings. well, i guess you can't say it 's out of control, but there are serious protests. and by the way, this once again says that it is quite difficult to say goodbye to colonial empires, but it would seem that there is almost nothing in france there are not a few overseas departments left, the population of which in principle votes against independence, otherwise it would not be... economically very important for france, because there 20-30% of nickel is located there, and

these are french resources, and it is obvious that if lose complete control, then the economic relations will be different, that's how it happened, let's say with niger, there is a huge part of the world's uranium reserves, if the french are expelled from there not only from the point of view of military influence, but also economically, they immediately. all possibilities for its nuclear energy, they will have to be looked for elsewhere, that is why russia wants to control this country, now the situation with new caledonia is different, france has never been against its independence, and there were agreements with the leaders of the movement for the independence of new caledonia that it would be necessary hold several referendums in a row in different years to understand... because the country wants independence, each time the referendum was lost, and new caledonia was finally confirmed in the status of an overseas department of france. then franze said:

"well, well, but what to do with those people who have lived in the territory for 10 years, not less than 10 years in the territory, and do not have the right to vote, they probably have the right to vote. and so, today and tomorrow , a reform was introduced that gives the right to vote to all residents of new caledonia." who have lived there for more than 10 years, well, democracy does not speak, but the leaders of the independence movement, who represent the indigenous population of kanaka, they say: listen, in we will then be a minority, we will never again be able to decide the fate of our own country, and what happens many times already was happening, it’s just that we already forgot about it, that it was necessary once in corsica, which is much closer, and where charles de gaulle moved a large number of people who had to... leave algeria, whose independence was recognized by france, and then in corsica there were also the speeches of the local population, who said: we are corsicans, you are moving the french to us, and these people, they

will not treat corsica as we do, we may be thinking about the future sovereignty of corsica, and they will want it to be part of france, and this fight is around corsica continues to this day, only now, in fact, corsica received the status of an autonomous entity, the right to teach the national language, everything... that the french denied for ten years, well , emmanuel macron somehow dealt with corsica, but this, you know, is such an empire, this as the fabric is like this, here it tears, here you patch it, here it begins, and now, it means, as it were, completely democratic proposals of equality, on which the french republic is based, which can only be welcomed, in general, the main civilizational asset of france, equality brother and justice, everyone knows this by heart, from school, these vine french revolutions, it turns out that they contradict the rights of the indigenous people, at a time when in

the west now the main such menstrument is the anti-colonial legacy, that is, some are beginning to apologize for the colonial heritage, and others continue to oppress the native population, and it is interesting that the french ministry of foreign affairs, the french ministry of the interior says: "listen, it is these leaders of national movements who have serious contacts with baku, with azerbaijan. they all came there, representatives of the national branches of all overseas departments of france. last year they even adopted the baku initiative, why? because azerbaijan is not satisfied with the fact that france is strengthening its relations with armenia, and in response, it is strengthening its ties with by the french overseas departments, an absolutely incredible thing, and the ministry of foreign affairs of azerbaijan, which corresponds to paris, listen, we are not arranging anything there, there is no need

to blame us, you will deal with your own colonial policy, these are all the results of the fact that you have had such a colonial policy for centuries, and now you say that we are to blame, when in fact you are to blame, and this is such an incredible situation, which in principle... there is no simple solution, that is i would, let's say, if i were the president of france, oh, if i were the president of france, i decided so much, i would create some bicameral parliament there in new caledonia, i would create some senate that would represent the interests of the indigenous population and some lower chamber parliament, which would represent the interests of all new caledonians, would give this upper house the power of veto. by the way, this is a good model for the crimea for the time being. but in

france there is no such idea of ​​the essence of the french political nation that we are all french, we gave you the opportunity to vote for independence, you didn't want it, we gave it to you again, you didn't want it again, we gave it again, we didn't again wanted, well, you are french and they are french, what you want them, and the leaders of the new caledonian sovereignty movement say no, we are against no... our majority population is against independence, but we are kanaks, we want to remain kanaks, what to do here, this is, you know, a real clash of civilizations, this what is serious, and the approaches are civilized, and now i think we have to see how skillful the french leadership will be to solve this issue, because emmanuel macron has to fall into such traps all the time during his mandate, and

it is necessary to understand. what if you go to any compromises, you immediately meet misunderstandings among a large part of the population of france itself, so emmanuel macron succeeded in an unusual way in corsica, when he came to corsica, in fact, he made a fool of the idea of ​​this corsican community, such an almost, i can’t say state, but at least, well i don't even know how. to formulate an entity with signs of statehood, one can say so, you understand, and this is very important for corsicans, i once walked in the city of corse, the former capital of independent corsica, on the modern museum of corsican history, which is located near the old house, where the bonepart family lived, without little napoleon, he was born in another city, but the rest of the family lived there, because napoleon's father was

in of this independent corsica, he could not understand the main thing from this, there was no separatist family there, and in this museum there is no mention at all of what part of, what state corsica is in general, there was no independent corsica, but there was no france, no france could be found under on the table, on the table, there is no, then it was never, never clear which states corsica was part of, then people still cannot come to terms with that... such a fact, and now in the role of this corsica, where by and large macron succeeded in this to extinguish the acuteness of the problems, nova kalidoi began to speak, and before that there were other overseas departments, and i also agree, i must say that i come from the ministry of foreign affairs of azerbaijan, of course, efforts can be made to strengthen the capabilities of the leaders of the sovereign movements, but the problem is not in azerbaijan, but

the problem is that it is very difficult... to find a balance in this politics, when a large part of your territories is located, you know, god knows where, behind australia, i have no idea how much there are even kilometers there, of course, and where other people live by origin, by mentality, and they are your fellow citizens, and they must own a large amount of resources when your economy needs them, and you don't even know what to do with it , but ... now we see the map of europe, but we do not see the map of new caledonia we will see it there, even if we really want to, because it is on the other side of the hemisphere, so this is the world that would have been before, it seems that it has ceased to be so, but with each such political event , we see that not everything it's over, well, that's the end of our conversation, we thank the audience dmytro didora and vitaly portnikov, have a good night and a peaceful evening, see you, good luck.

all before tsk, the law on mobilization entered into force, what should be known and done, the attack on kharkiv oblast, is it an expansion of the front or preparation for a repeated attack on the capital, emergency and hourly blackouts, when to expect... the situation to improve. the espresso team has prepared all the most important things for the past week. anna javamelnik is with you. good evening. a new approach in this war. this is how the spokesman of the ministry of defense recently described the law on mobilization, which entered into force today, according to which conscripts fall under it.