and i will also remind everyone that last year the founder of the ukrainian project bohdan logvinenko received this award, since the beginning of the full-scale invasion, his media has been talking about russia's aggression against ukraine for ukrainian and foreign audiences, i will also note that during today's event, during today's delivery.

good evening, we are from ukraine! today, in the program verdict with serhiy rudenko, it is urgent to strengthen ukrainian air defense, the head of the german foreign ministry came to kyiv with the news of a billion euros for air defense of ukraine, will it be possible to cover... the sky over kharkiv with patriot systems in the near future. alternative peace plan. china continues to call for a ceasefire in ukraine and negotiations with russia. will the kremlin manage to get the global south to support chinese initiatives. coordination of the negotiation framework. in brussels, they insist on starting negotiations on ukraine's membership in the eu already at the end of june. will it work? and to persuade

hungary to make concessions on the issue of national minorities. glory to ukraine, this is the verdict program, my name is serhiy rudenko, i congratulate everyone, i wish good health to all. for the next two hours, we will talk about ukraine, the world, the war, and our victory. today we will talk about the visit of the minister of foreign affairs to kyiv. anna lena burbok of germany, let's talk about the five years of zelensky's presidency, what he considers legitimate or illegitimate in the so -called president vladimir putin, and let's talk about how and in what way the global peace summit will take place in switzerland on june 15-16 . we will discuss all this over the next hour. with e

diplomat, ambassador extraordinary and plenipotentiary of ukraine valery chaly, in the second part of our program, which will start literally in an hour, we will have people's deputies of ukraine, rostyslav pavlenko, mykyta potoraev and mykhailo tsimbalyuk. however, before starting our big conversation, i suggest watching a video of the consequences of today's night and morning attacks by the russian occupiers on kharkiv.

friends, we work live on the espresso tv channel, as well as on our youtube and facebook platforms. please subscribe to our pages on these platforms, and also take part in our voting. today we ask you about the following: is there a need for a childlessness tax in ukraine? yes, no, everything is quite simple on youtube, if you have an opinion about a possible such tax, write in the comments, if you watch us on tv, pick up your smartphone or phone and vote. if you think that it is needed in ukraine. childlessness tax 0800 211 381

no 0800 211 382 all calls to these numbers are free vote at the end of the program we will summarize this. very briefly, for those who do not understand why we are talking about the childlessness tax, i will explain that serhii hryvko, a people's deputy from the servants of the people, registered a bill on improving the demographic situation in ukraine, in which he proposed introducing a childlessness tax for people who do not have children at all and a smaller demographic levy for those with one or two children, after a flurry of criticism from colleagues, hryvko withdrew his. project, well, but this idea is obviously floating in the offices of power, so we ask what you guys think about it. we are in touch with valery chaly, diplomat, politician, former ambassador of ukraine to the united states of america, chairman of the board of the ukrainian crisis media center. mr. valery, i

congratulate you, thank you for joining our broadcast. i congratulate you, glory to ukraine. glory to heroes. let's start, mr. valery, our conversation on the issue of legitimacy. because today is may 21, 2024, and this topic was actively torpedoed by the russians, regarding whether zelenskyi will be legitimate or whether he will be illegitimate the president, of course, in ukraine, we all understand that the president in ukraine is volodymyr zelenskyi, he will be until the next presidential elections, which will take place after the end of the war, after the end of hostilities . who else... besides russia, in the world is concerned with the issue of zelenskyi's legitimacy? i would like to emphasize that from the point of view of international relations, and as you asked, the enemies, russia, are really very concerned about spreading this topic, outwardly,

i do not see any problems with the recognition of the subjectivity of ukraine in this regard, well and... power, i.e. the minister of crown affairs of germany also spoke about this today, i.e. despite the attempt to pump up this topic, especially in such platforms where russia traditionally does it, without the un, i think that it is obvious to everyone from the outside that during the war it is impossible to hold elections, and in many constitutions of different countries this is all... it is fixed and everyone understands everything perfectly, this does not mean that this topic will not be used and that journalists will not write about foreign media, well, here we have to find an answer, because in principles that for us it is quite clear, it could

be fixed by internal decisions, er, specialists and specialists in constitutional law know how to do it, i think that it would be correct, well, i mean an appeal to the constitutional court, because everything is equal , one way or another, we will not avoid such discussions and questions, but for our partners, in particular for the preparation of the peace summit, it will not affect now in any way, this situation in the international aspect, and even today the european union and the leadership of the un confirmed that... they consider zelenskyi is the legitimate president of ukraine, and there is no doubt here, but against this background, of course, the russians are trying to blur the topic of the legitimacy of their so-called president putin. why do you think the world swallowed this issue and

agreed with the fact that the leader of russia, who was elected on the occupied lands of the ukrainian state, and these... the votes of those people, or falsified votes, well, at least the votes of ukrainians were taken into account as they were devoted to putin, why, why does the world not continue this story, why do they not speak after may 7, when the the inauguration of the so-called president putin? well, of course, this is not a question for ukrainians, because we perfectly understand that this is a self-proclaimed, i don’t even know if he is a president, he formally sounds like a president, but in fact there... the regime is already completely different, so the self-proclaimed leader is now, but de facto he directs the war, gives orders for attacks on civilians, non-combatants, that is, he de facto rules

further in russia, we understand that, that is why the usa took such a position that it was illegal elections, and by the way, many took such a position the elections are illegal, but de facto... this position remained, although from the point of view of international evaluation, it is no different from the situation in belarus, when the election itself took place. and there was, after a completely illegal process, the leader lukashenko, the same here, well, for us, we have to decide on such a clear definition, because we have many epithets, different people talk about the russian leader, but from a legal point of view, well, for me, it is the self-proclaimed leader of the country , that is , all the more so that a person who is under issued order. international criminal court, a very difficult situation, you ask why? well, it is the same, why

many other questions arise, fears of a nuclear russia, russia's use of all these threats of its own and the desire to leave some opportunities for the lines of contact, strategic issues, there are threats of the use of weapons. we should leave it as annihilation, that is, in principle, i understand them, but for ukrainians it doesn't matter. mr. valery, in an interview with reuters, president zelensky stated that the dialogue with the russian dictator vladimir putin is currently impossible, since he is not an independent figure, but is in the system of hatred for ukraine under the control of big money and his entourage, let's listen to what the president of ukraine said. just for today. he is not an independent figure, this

is the problem, he is primarily brainwashed, he washed people and they washed him, he is in this information sphere, absolute, yes and well and in such a desire to destroy us, that is, you cannot sit down and talk with a person whose sole purpose is to destroy you? and you can't find it here today fair dialogue, he is not alone, he is not alone, somewhere there is money, somewhere there he is afraid that here is china, first of all he is guided by money, big money that is around him, and he understands that he must live until his death, and only before his feet he will be taken out of the kremlin, well, this is the finalization of the so-called... i like president putin with his feet out of the kremlin, but this means that he can

be the leader of russia, the self-proclaimed leader of russia for a long time, do you agree, mr. valery, with the conclusions of the president that he controlled by big money, some of which are behind putin, or in principle, putin does not need it, he is simply a dictator, an authoritarian person , and personally. who actually chose the path of war, the path of aggression, not only in relation to ukraine, but in relation to the whole world, and this is his policy, which he obviously will not renounce until the moment he is kicked out. here are some questions about what kind of wealth putin has, there were estimates even before the full-scale invasion that he was the richest man in the world. that is, if you take the fortune on stolen, actually stolen from the russian

people and what he owns, through already instruments, if, transcribed to him, or through the mediation of campaigns, something he wrote directly to his relatives, something to the environment, the assessments were, i did hear, already a long time ago, however, it was for this group that surrounds him closely and he himself up to 300 billion dollars, i think that at that time they were more or less accurate, now it is certain that he controls the pain, that is, well, he is probably the richest person in the world, and his in this respect really, here i can to agree, it worries how to preserve all this, as it is not paradoxical, although life is not eternal, but in this context it is power. money, eh, but he is more concerned with the control of power, because really the loss of power for him

means, well, such consequences, eh, which he would not like to receive, i am perhaps more optimistic about the fate of the head of russia than the president of ukraine, volodymyr zelensky, maybe i'm wrong, but i would still like to see him... on the dock and before the international criminal court, it's clear that it's not now, but there were also questions about some dictators. er, they thought they would get away with it, but they didn't. i, you know, think that there may be a scenario of his, such isolation, in one of his palaces, everything is also possible, but he has less and less opportunities to go somewhere outside of russia, that is

, i think that he will really hold there and the authorities and hold on as long as possible. but i would not focus on such an approach, you understand, as a ukrainian, i share all these, our desires, and i hope that somewhere the right messages will be sent, and something will fly in in the right direction, black swans, but i would be satisfied with a stop to the war and a certain, i say, criminal investigation, or the isolation of this really person who... committed so many war crimes, brought so much pain and tragedies not only to ukrainians, but i think , over time and russia will someday realize where he is leading these people in this country, so with the main, well, conclusions , well, i think that we should do so

as not to drag out this entire history of resistance against russian efforts... ukraine take control and destroy, up to the destruction of the entire regime there, i would very much like for us to find formulas to do it sooner, to fence off, to separate ourselves with a security umbrella from russian territory on our borders, and for it to happen sooner than what god determines about putin. well, but what you say, mr. valery, that he is the richest man, that he has ... concentrated such power and such opportunities, financial resources, does that mean that he all all his threats and what he says to the world there about nuclear weapons, about the use of these nuclear weapons weapons, uh, what, that all this is loaded and is an element of intimidation of both our western partners and ukraine, because if he

has everything, and he is a person who loves life and likes to uh... flaunt it, then is he capable of what the west fears? look, you are asking questions for psychologists, psychiatrists, that is, let me evaluate my field, because there were really different statements regarding the state of health, that is, we can listen to other people, which i also listen to them, but regarding... international events and international definition, then i look closely at these threats from the point of view, not so much from the point of view of today's statements, but from the point of view of specific actions, that is, i understand that without testing the existing nuclear weapons ammunition,

well, for example, the technical tactical nuclear weapons, it is impossible to move forward. that is, first there must be a test that can be carried out in principle without an explosion, well, i won’t go into details here, but there is such an option that the americans use recently, as far as i understand, they used it, but uh, the russians can really try to conduct some kind of test , which has not already been held, if i am not mistaken in 1996, it is impossible to move forward without it, that is... that is why there are certain steps that actually precede any threats. now we are at the stage of escalation of nuclear backlogs, violation of the deterrence system, violation of the international legal system, withdrawal of its main players from the treaties, russia's withdrawal from the treaty

or withdrawal of its position on the treaty on nuclear tests, what i said about... and well and other stradically offensive weapons , the third three are not signed, that is, they are out dream-2, but this and america also came out, that is, we see that this, unfortunately, is a pandora's box that they have already opened, it is winding many countries quickly to escalation, and to say that countries do not think about it, i think somewhere in... about two dozen countries that will very quickly be ready or legalize their nuclear status, i don't know, india, pakistan or israel. that is, some countries that have such an opportunity. so today i met with journalists from brazil, brazil at the time also decided not to

to produce nuclear weapons, but the capabilities of this country are there, or the republic of south africa was also a situation, that is, the technical capabilities, unfortunately, there are now more than two dozen countries, and it can be done very quickly, that is, i would look. to this situation, regarding actions, so far, thank god, such attempts to test nuclear weapons, or er, well , to use them somewhere, so far there is no such thing, i will tell you more, in my opinion, today, if russia passes this red line line, then the result will be very immediately like this... explanatory escalation, if you can say, well , a very sharp rise in stakes and the end of russia's war against ukraine, that's for sure, because then the usa and other countries will not be able to stand aside,

they will be forced to take part with conventional weapons, to strike, because further escalations will be allowed on the russian side, they won't, and the strategic nuclear weapons in the u.s. are now much more powerful and proven than in... russia, russia doesn't really even know what's going to happen with those warheads, i think they also think what's going to happen with them, so i don't think so now we are right before the realization of such threats, but i can agree that , unfortunately, escalation in this area is taking place. today, mr. valery, the minister of foreign affairs came to ukraine. in germany anna lena berbuk and she said that thanks to the german initiative aimed at strengthening the air defense of ukraine, it was possible to collect almost

1 billion euros for this, and together with the minister of energy of ukraine herman goluchchenko, she visited one of the biggest theses of ukraine, which destroyed by russia, and actually, well, burbok understands the importance of providing ukraine with air defense systems, how would you... evaluate this, this period, probably the last two months and the world's reaction to what was happening when the russian federation destroyed critical infrastructure objects, theses, and what actually is part of the civilized world, when we are now forced to experience these blackouts in yelov blackouts, this is probably not the worst thing that can happen, but it is unpleasant enough, could the world do something and help ukraine more than it has done for this moment? first, what do we have? we have hits on

civil infrastructure. ukraine also, as i understand it, agreed that some strikes by drones on the refinery were also accurate, but at those enterprises where ours confirmed this use, it was definitely a production facility. fuel, fuel, or for tanks, or for rockets. that is, i cannot agree that from the point of view of humanitarian law, it is equivalent to an attack on ukrainian energy facilities, how can you say that this or that station, which is not connected to any military unit, which is not used as facility for so that military or technical personnel were present. on it, but it is destroyed precisely in order to create panic conditions for non-combatants, i.e. the civilian population, or to press in exactly this way and exhaust them economically, that is, i

believe that these are completely unequal conditions, and one cannot help but put one situation and another on the same scales , although it is a humanitarian right, or a military one, obsolete during war, it is very strange. interprets this history, moreover, does not distinguish between the aggressor and the victim of aggression, therefore there are many such legal essences of issues with from the point of view of the situation, well, i think that, unfortunately, we have to endure, because the existing measures and air defense means are not enough. germany is the leader of the coalition to provide ukraine with additional air defense systems, and we are grateful. for this, not only to the minister of legal affairs, we also know that the chancellor of germany has spoken about it several times, although he is really still cautious and has not yet made a decision. in terms of

taurus missiles, but in terms of air defense systems, in terms of additional equipment, he is very consistent and active, i want to note that, that this is the official position, the consolidated position of germany, and recently, a lot has been done by the ambassador here in ukraine, and the minister of foreign affairs, and the german treasury, so we are grateful for this, regarding, i emphasize once again that my position. air defense means are important, but if we don't have these missiles, in order to further reject the possibility of using them on us, all these attacking systems, well, then nothing will happen, you will not be able to close in any way, even if you want to close everything objects in ukraine by air defense systems, well, it is simply impossible every one

station, if... russia will continue to do the same, it is simply technically impossible to close it, moreover, well, we will need these systems for the purpose of re-occupation of the territory, well , for example, what are they intended for, some important objects, airfields will cover , that is , i think that the question should still be asked about taurus missiles, let me remind you that the usa has already given atakams. and germany once took the position that taurus missiles could be, but only after the usa, well, the usa has already taken a step, so it would be logical. now regarding facilities, we know that germany is also helping us in supporting, er, if, resilience or, let's say, countering these attacks in terms of the energy system, and there's...

a lot of opportunities for interaction in terms of alternative, alternative systems, and those that are at the power plant, that are fueled by gas, and so on, that is, there is something to talk about here, some ukrainian cities or even regions are already working very actively in this, and this is the right approach, it is necessary to look even under wartime alternatives, the less will be actually retail'. here are such facilities, it makes it difficult for the enemy to use strikes, and finally, what i want to say is that germany is really now the number one in europe, continental europe, the supplier of both arms and aid to ukraine, germany is the number one, maybe , together with poland, where our citizens are now, women, children are there, and that's very

good, but that's all... i would like to see germany as a leader that takes steps forward, well, for example, as britain does , stating that ukraine can use british weapons for defense, including for defense and strikes on the territory of russia, so psychologically, i really hope that germany will cross this barrier, as it has made huge changes in its approaches to russia. in recent times, well, there are also economic issues, of course, some other issues regarding the dependence of german business, both on russia and on russian partners or, say, those who supply them with weapons, so i think that the continuation of the dialogue and such intensity of dialogue, in particular at the level of foreign ministers, and even that definition rollerball in hand. order, this is also the right

thing, today's level of our relations allows us to talk about germany as close partners. well, yesterday there was a meeting of the allies, our allies in the remstein format, and the secretary of defense of the united states of america, lloyd dostin, after this meeting expressed confidence that the ukrainian forces did not use american long-range weapons on the territory of the russian federation, in particular, air defense systems, let's hear it. what loyt dostin said. we clearly stated that we would provide ukraine with opportunities to defend its own sovereign territory. of course, the dynamics of air combat, i will leave it to the discretion of the experts, but we expect that they will continue to use the weapons provided by us against targets on the territory of ukraine. aerodynamics are a bit different now, but i don't want to speculate on that subject from this

podium. at the same time, president zelenskyi.