well, if you allow me, i will start a little differently. a very good conference in tallinn, linan mery conference, ended just a few days ago. and timothy snyder spoke there, and he basically talked about one historical myth that is still in the minds of germans. the second world war was an unjust aggression of the germans against the russians. and, in fact, most of this war was fought on the territory of ukraine, and the civilian population for... well, you know history very well, i'm not talking about the fact that a large part of the red army consisted of ukrainians, but and actually these myths in the heads, this is the first part, and the second part is how the russian nuclear deterrence works very well and works in the minds of scholz first of all, as well as the strategy in washington, it seems to them that by shooting down russian missiles, and it is absolutely clear about this... minister kulib

said, no, we do not want to shoot down russian planes, it would not be a direct conflict between nato and the russian federation, and of course that would lead to escalation, but fear and paralysis from, paralysis to be more precise , from escalation, it actually does not provide an opportunity olah sholts to take a step, provide ukraine with the same torus missiles, or help us defend at least part of ukraine from the russians. missiles, this fear of the possibility of nuclear escalation, it is holding scholz back, but also, you know, the russians are not only acting directly, so threatening, it also means the nuclear exercises, which were tactically nuclear weapons, and what is happening now in the baltic sea , there the situation was rolled back a bit, i mean the draft document, more precisely the announcement of the draft document regarding the review of territorial...

federation in the baltic sea, which would significantly change and worsen the situation for countries, primarily finland, and also there it seems, we are closer to poland, and moreover, it is not only about territorial waters , but about several horse islands, where the border moved towards what international law considers to be the territory, the sovereign territory of finland, that is, all these things, they are aimed at ... all to scare the western partners, to continue the hybrid offensive to the west, in order to test its readiness to defend as its members, yes and to help ukraine, and unfortunately, in berlin and in washington, this exam is so far passed with the lowest, worst score imaginable, they are actually condoning russia's further brawl, well...

this war, because it is clear that the question not to protect ukrainian skies with the territory of nato member states. the question is, first of all, that we review the strategic restrictions that have been imposed on ukraine since the beginning of the large-scale invasion, that we cannot use western weapons on our own russian territory, destroying, first of all, the seeds of those missiles and bombs that fall on our heads, and not trying to intercept the limited ones that are benign. the key problem is how they see the conflict in washington and in berlin, and how they try to avoid a direct confrontation with the russian federation, these cautions, red tape, they lead to such deplorable results, for which we pay primarily, i mean in ukrainian citizens, the ukrainian military, and the ukrainian state, you have already mentioned, mr. oleksandr, about these...

claims of the russians on part of the baltic sea, or rather, on part of the water area in the gulf of finland, and also near the cities of baltiysk and zelenogradsk in the kaliningrad region, there is a draft of the relevant resolution of the government of the russian federation, and this draft was prepared by the ministry of defense of russia, as it is believed in sweden that the master of the kremlin is planning . to gain control of the island of gotland, which to control the baltic sea proper, this island is in the middle of that baltic sea, and whoever controls gotland controls the baltic sea, yes was always believed to be what the commander-in-chief of the swedish armed forces, mikael büden, said in an interview with r&d. yes, i am sure that putin even has both eyes on gotland. putin's goal is to gain control over... the baltic sea,

he probably has his eye on the åland islands as well. the russians closely monitor what is happening at the entrances and exits to the baltic sea. well, the baltic sea, it... has always been of interest to russians and even in distant times, in stalin's time, stalin quite often spoke about the fact that the main thing is the baltic sea the sea, the black sea - it's not something unclear, but it's the main baltic sea, from there we can retaliate against the british and all europeans, as far as these plans, which are being talked about in sweden and in general in western europe regarding intentions. putin about the baltic sea, to what extent can they be implemented by putin, considering that both sweden and finland are still members of the north atlantic alliance? well, in general , the entry of finland and sweden into nato was a strategic defeat for the russian federation,

since the russian federation actually limited in maneuvering in the baltic sea, as well as finland, which borders the polish peninsula. actually provides additional opportunities for the nuclear deterrence of the russian federation, since there is a nuclear warhead on the kola peninsula, which primarily affects the united states, and now russia is trying to provoke nato in some way, to show that it is not effective, that there is no consensus, because once again ulakhy sholtsy will appear and say that it is not worth starting the third world war and destroying the world, but i think it is necessary to look more... broadly on the map, and not to separate the baltic sea from the northern seas, from the northern sea route, which is the so -called signature project, that is, such a favorite project of mr. putin, well, also on the black sea, because what is happening , for example

, in the black sea in 2014, certain approaches were developed and are being developed there, which are then applied in other seas, and in fact... it is very important that nato and our other partners respond adequately to what is happening not only in the baltic sea, but in black and in the northern ones, only such in this way, it is possible to stop the implementation of the general strategy of the russian federation for expansion and expansion of its influence, most importantly for under aimed at supporting unity. regarding the fifth article of the washington treaty, this is not, is not, you know, a question. automatism, this is a matter of consensus among members, if even a few nato members, or one, are not ready to go and defend every inch of the nation's territory, it will mean that in fact this whole

structure does not work and the russian federation still wins, so let's hope to an adequate reaction, the reaction of the finns was very restrained, they s... said that they would figure out the situation, keep it under control, the russian federation did not make any requests regarding the revision of the borders, and of course, that they would watch as russia to act a blow. mr. oleksandr, one more important question is, in the context of these encroachments by russia on part of the baltic sea, whether in this situation ukraine could help nato countries with its naval forces. well, the question immediately arises of how ukraine can integrate into the north atlantic alliance, to use its experience of fighting in the black sea against the russian invaders, is such use permissible and can it be? well, you

know, this is absolutely correct, the correct line of thought, since we are in a de facto, that is , in a legal state of war with the russian federation, that means. these means and forces of the russian federation may be a target, a legitimate target for ukraine's attacks. we remember very well how recently there was information that our special services worked very well in sudan, and in fact having destroyed both mercenaries and russian employees of the russian central intelligence agency there, it is clear that we can act in other places as well. understood that in order to operate in the baltic sea, we have to do it with the cooperation, or at least with the permission of our partners, we cannot violate the airspace of our partners who help us, especially all the countries or poland, you can of course

try to strike through the territory of the russian federation, but of course, this option is embedded in systems and others things, i understand... that we don't have that many drones with a long radius, the same can be said about sea drones, they have to be refueled somehow in the baltic sea. here, but in principle, it seems to me the right thing to do, and it would be an additional contribution of ukraine to the security of the european continent. you know, when we are happy that the next russian battleships will go to the black sea, it is not only the joy of ukrainians, it means that there are fewer platforms of nasiivkals or other weapons, destroying the ukrainian, it is also our contribution to european security, as we they were designed from the very beginning as a means of terror, as a means of intimidating our european partners, and

therefore it seems to me that such cooperation of ukraine with the baltic states would be in the interests of both the baltic states and the european one in general, mr. oleksandr, thank you for your participation in program, it was oleksandr khara, a diplomat, and i remind friends that we work live on the espresso tv channel, as well as on our youtube and facebook platforms. for to those who are currently watching us on these platforms, please subscribe to our pages and also take part in our survey, today we ask you about this, should the responsibility for breaking the curfew be increased? yes, no, everything is quite simple on youtube, if you have your own opinion, please leave it in the comments below this video, and if you watch us on tv, pick up your smartphone or phone and vote if you think so , that it is necessary to strengthen responsibility for curfew violations hours 0.800 2 11 381 no 0800 211 382. i would like

to introduce our next guest, this is ihor reiterovych, political scientist, head of political and legal programs of the ukrainian center for social development. mr. igor, i congratulate you, thank you for being with us today. congratulations. mr. igor, let's start with information that has been quite actively discussed over the past two days, and... the situation that has developed in the verkhovna rada of ukraine, that is , european solidarity blocked the verkhovna rada session yesterday, demanding consideration of two issues, the creation of a temporary investigative committee commission on the certification and provision of the armed forces of ukraine and on consideration in the verkhovna rada of the issue of the ukrainian orthodox church, or rather, of the moscow churches working on the territory of ukraine. it is possible to perceive this attempt at european solidarity as an attempt to restore

the subjectivity of the parliament, when its people's deputies demonstrate that they are the very force that shapes the agenda in ukraine, appoints the government, and, accordingly, is a sufficiently proactive group that actually gives back. this is the subjectivity i'm asking you about look, this story, oddly enough, is so, you know, ambivalent, on the one hand, of course, it is an attempt to remind about a certain subjectivity, that is, there are representatives of the opposition, who publicly for several days, at least before this, they demanded consideration of certain issues, and these issues, they are extremely relevant, especially the issue that is connected, for example, with the construction of fortifications in ukraine, but since they did not see any adequate reaction from the side. er, well, in the monomajority, they resorted to such a mechanism, such a tool that

is used quite often in various parliaments in the world, that is, it is not only about the ukrainian parliament, in this way the opposition can draw attention to a certain issue, and try to force it, for example, a pro-government majority there and bring it up for consideration there, on the other hand, why did i tell you that these events are essentially a statement. of the long-term parliamentary crisis that we have today, as we see that the monomajority, it extremely rarely votes for some serious issues recently, and if there is a vote, then it requires a very serious parliamentary mobilization, and why it is extremely rare, because they simply do not have enough votes, that is, they have a certain problem, and apparently they do not discuss these issues with the office itself president, because everyone understands very well that the decision today is for the monomajority... it is definitely taken in the bank, and this is an attempt to attract attention that was criticized there, i know

the representatives of the minority, but they are not very right, because they do not have the right in their colleagues to take away the opportunity to express their position on one or another issue, especially if these issues are related to national security and defense, so this attempt, well, it showed that, in fact , the parliament should think about what is happening and what attitude - first in society to the verkhovna rada, unfortunately, the verkhovna rada. to date , it is the absolute leader in terms of the rate of decline of trust in it, if compared with other state institutions that exist in the country, and the second point, well, for the monomajority it could would become... a chance to consider some things there without looking at the bank itself, but judging by what we have seen and judging by the statements that the speaker made today, she is not going to do that, so questions about subjectivity remain , the issues are very serious, i am convinced that the various opposition will still try to somehow change this situation, but objectively they simply do not have the strength for it yet, because

according to tradition, and if you look at the entire previous history of ukrainian parliamentarism, certain changes from . when some rational core or some constructive group actually appeared in the right-wing majority when it started to vote jointly for certain decisions with the opposition, unfortunately i do not see such a group yet, with a few exceptions, those who are conscious deputies in the monomajority , they can't create a numerical advantage so far, maybe the situation will change, it will change when the overwhelming majority of people's elected representatives, including the monomajority, will understand that they have a way to disappear altogether. or they will remember that they are people's deputies, and they can consider some decisions themselves, and not by coordinating them exclusively there, well, with the cabinet of ministers, it would be a good story, and not by coordinating with the office of the president, well, they appoint the cabinet of ministers and can, in principle, conduct some kind of discussion on equal terms, and the office of the president in this situation is not the subject that can

point to something in the verkhovna rada of ukraine. may 22. er, the council did vote for the creation of a temporary investigative commission, a special, or rather, an arrangement commission fortification and the purchase of drones, but the question of the bill banning the moscow patriarchate in ukraine was never put to a vote, ruslan stefanchuk, the speaker of the parliament, says that this law must be passed without violations, so that there is no possibility to cancel it later through the constitutional court, listen. what the chairman of the verkhovna rada of ukraine said. what our screamers instigated yesterday is a direct violation of regulations, and i, as a lawyer , will tell you that this is a direct basis for further repeal of this law in constitutional court of ukraine. that is why my colleagues and i gathered yesterday and discussed

a very clear order. we need to see that there is the necessary number of votes in the hall, as soon as these signatures are collected, this bill will be immediately introduced into the hall. mr. igor, is this caution of stefanchuk motivated in the issue with the moscow church, because this issue has been discussed and debated for so long , and it is clear that the ukrainian orthodox church of the moscow patriarchate has a choice, either to come to the light side, or to remain on... the dark side, and the parliament can push the uocp to do so, but it does not do this, what is the motivation behind this caution, well, the constitutional court can consider any issue or any draft law that has been passed in the last two years regarding violations there or compliance

with regulatory norms, and by the way, i don't know where the honorable speaker is confident that the constitutional court would unequivocally... interpret the issue not in favor of the law that would be adopted, but maybe constitutional the court, on the contrary, would say that there are no questions, and it corresponds to the constitution and should actually be implemented in practice, but in this statement, we saw how mr. stefanchuk, you know, is fighting two, well, two of his dishes, on the one hand, purely as the speaker, as a person who is the chairman of the verkhovna rada, is certain of his caution, she understood, he wants to have a guarantee for sure. that this law will be voted on, that all deputies will be present there in the session hall, that there will not be any, well, there will not be any violations, procedural possible appeals there and so on further, here he can be understood, since the law is really important enough and so on, but you understand, this legal opinion of his is completely covered by the political one, he stated with this

statement that we just listened to, that the monomajority of the de facto restoration refuses to support . this law, that is, there is not the required number of votes due to the position of the monomajority, which, in theory, should be the initiator and which should move this law and bring it to its logical conclusion, because the opposition, which advocates, well, it simply physically not enough, especially let's not forget, there are a couple of deputy groups there, there are former opzz members, on the contrary, they will vote against it, i do not rule out that if when, to be more precise... if when it does come to the consideration of this draft law, well, we 'll see, they will also rush to block the podium there, they will have nothing to lose and they will try to take advantage of this moment, but in fact, what does the speaker state? that it is the majority, she does not want, i do not say, she cannot, she can, they have enough votes, she does not want to consider this bill, and therefore he, as a speaker on the one hand, who is not related to a certain

political force, but de facto has, we all understand this very well, he will seek as much as necessary, or as much as he can, some procedural moments in order not to bring this draft law to consideration in the session hall, i do not see now, to my great regret, the political will, both in... the parliament, and including in the office of the president, in order to bring this law to logical conclusion, although it seems to me, after the ottieya stories with lobbyists, american, whom this moscow church hired in ukraine with the help of certain oligarchs, the decision should have been made instantly, and the verkhovna rada itself should have demonstrated its subjectivity just then, because it was undisguised pressure, and the pressure is very manipulative, with direct interference in... the affairs of ukraine, but i , well, i remember that there was a corresponding appeal, there was a committee meeting, but that's all, but the best answer would be to really consider this law, vote for

him, further, well, who would submit it to the constitutional court, so the constitutional court would consider it, for how long, well, everything would depend on how and how quickly this particular submission would be submitted, or maybe it would be that and nothing were not brought to a logical conclusion, there was no actual appeal, that is why there is a lack of political will. including the leadership of the verkhovna rada, to our great regret , currently blocks consideration of this really important law, and leaves us in such an elevated state, when we have, well, i i will not say the russian agents there directly, although judging by the cases regularly opened by the sbu, which concern the priests of the moscow patriarchate, they are engaged in purely agent affairs, but from the point of view of a certain such leader of some narratives that the aggressor country uses against us. well , you too. you are right, mr. igor, that the constitutional court is, after all, the constitutional court of ukraine, and it should proceed from the interests of the state interests of the ukrainian state, and from the point of view

of national security and defense, i.e. under during the war, imagine that the constitutional court will make an illegal decision that will contradict the concept of national security and defense, or rather, it will be a contradiction. because of what we are doing, defending ourselves from russia, it would be very strange, but in this situation, in your opinion, under whom and whose political responsibility is it that the moscow church is still working in ukraine? i think that formally, of course, it is primarily a monomajority, because they have the necessary number of votes to vote for it, i think that to a certain extent political responsibility, well, let's be frank, it is possible somewhere under the president of ukraine, in what sense? i understand very well that... he has more important tasks, he deals with these issues, defense, diplomacy, aid and so on, but you know, if he

would address the verkhovna rada during his regular evening address, as he i did this on some issues, and i would simply say that dear deputies, i expect, the entire ukrainian people expect that you will eventually bring it to a logical conclusion, well, for example, such a story, which is related to e, well, not even bans... uoc, mp, this is an important point, that's what this law is, it's not even called a draft law, it 's about other certain points, but you will lead to logical conclusion of this legislative history, then i think that then the political will would quickly appear in the minds of the majority, but since this issue is not raised at the central level, the president does not mention it, it is not mentioned by other people there, who actually of the president's offices are responsible there for these directions of state policy, in the monomajority , well... it ignores this issue, because it does not want to take on this political responsibility, if there was a certain group, the people's deputies i mentioned, who would proceed from the point of view of national

interests, subjectivity of the parliament, i think that they could come to an agreement with the opposition a long time ago, collect the necessary number of signatures, votes and so on, and then, even stefanchuk, well, formally, there would be no reason not to pass this law session hall for consideration, but since there is no such thing as a kick-off, no one wants to take on this political responsibility, the question ... has been left hanging, and well, i don't want to sound too pessimistic, but something tells me that it will hang for a long time, and it will be postponed as much as possible for later, closing it with some other issues, well, more urgent, perhaps from the point of view of the country's defense. so far, mr. igor, the process of mobilization in ukraine and the updated system and registration of conscripts and procedure have not been postponed mobilization and notification of the mobilized... in may 2024, changes to the law on mobilization entered into force, there is already a

reserve plus application. queues at the tsk have lined up, participation in combat operations is already allowed for convicts, 300 convicts have already submitted applications for conditional early release to participate in the defense of ukraine, deputy minister of justice olena vysotska reported about this, which are the first conclusions that can be drawn from the change in the order of registration and the order of mobilization in ukraine, will everything be as planned, or? it is quite clear what will happen next and whether they are motivated steps that were adopted by the verkhovna rada, and now also by separate resolutions of the cabinet of ministers are being implemented. you know, i have a personal impression, because i, like everyone else, probably most men, took part in all the applications, data updates, and so on, my first impression is that it is very simple, even banal, that it cannot be was done much earlier, that is, there since

22... year, in fact, nothing so terrible is happening there so far, there is a certain update of data, it is clear that there are certain failures in system, there are queues and so on, but there is a sufficiently prompt response, an electronic queue, the possibility to receive there, for example, a referral to the vlk also in electronic format and so on, that is, so far i can see, what i see in the first days, it is certain this is an attempt to stimulate more, to stimulate more , after all, not with a whip, you know, to a certain extent, with a gingerbread man, yes, it is possible... if there were to turn to some ethical norms, yes, so that the citizens of ukraine, well, first of all did what was needed without any coercion, on the other hand, i am me i think, in principle, i have said this many times, it would be desirable, with the start of this law on the 18th, its effect, to remove any street so-called mobilization, well , at least for a certain period of time, for these two months , when there is an update of this data, because it creates

too nervous an atmosphere. well , there are still many questions that it is not known how they will be resolved, here we need to communicate more actively, to explain, including using the examples of some specific cases, well, in the end, you know, so far i have only heard from business representatives and economists, this is a strange story, but i have only heard approximate figures from them, how many people we need to mobilize, it seems to me that the military and political leadership should also at least to give an approximate voice, of course, we don't need to go into detail. to name numbers, but in the modern world to hide them, for example, from the same russia, we are unlikely to be able to do this, but understanding this number, it seems to me, would also have a significant impact on society, because at least society would have a clear understanding of who it might affect in the first place, how many people can really be mobilized there, in what way it will happen, so continue but improve communication and minimize any repressive measures that are in place for now, because it seems to me that they still

do more harm than good. well, for this mobilization to take place effectively. thank you, mr. igor, for the conversation, it was igor reiterovych, political scientist, head of political and legal programs of the ukrainian center for social development. friends, we continue to work on our platforms in youtube and facebook, we continue the survey, which will continue in the second part of our program, we ask you today whether it is necessary to strengthen the responsibility for violating the curfew, 83% - yes, 17% - no, this fathers of our tv poll, next we have news from our partners at the bbc, and in 15 minutes we will return to the studio, we will have political experts oleksan and oleksiy koshel as guests, stay with the espresso channel, it will be interesting.

russia has put an anti-satellite weapon into orbit, the pentagon says, it is likely to be able to shoot down american government satellites. this threatens the world and how it will affect the war in ukraine, we analyze in today's edition of the bbc, i am olga polamaryuk. russia is building up its space capabilities and raising the stakes. data appeared in american intelligence that russia had launched a space weapon into orbit. this is a satellite capable not only of observing everything that is happening in space, but also of attacking other satellites. under threat in the first place american objects, because, as noted,

their anti-space weapons. russia placed in the same orbit.