which gives rise to power, and that is why this lviv forum is here, it is aimed at this very thing, to form such and such a structure there, the beginning has already taken place, that is, at the lviv forum, certain working groups were created there in order to form such an executive structure , but it can be formed only if it is not based on all these political oppositionists, as there are... but if it is based on armed units, on the legion, on the rdk and on the siberian, that is, i understand that the prime minister in exile will you, no, i don't want to to be prime minister, i want to be in the parliament, i want to create legislation, and then i generally want to go to court, because i believe that judicial reform will be very important, but in general, the main thing now is to rebuild a new policy. system, but to help our

guys fight and reach moscow, seize power, destroy these criminals, and then start rebuilding the state with those regions that will remain, decide to remain part of russia, ukraine meanwhile is trying to advance towards nato and the european union, moscow is simply seething, but maria zakharova says that eu membership will mean expansion for ukraine and moldova. nato east, let's hear what she said. this is not membership, this is not the accession of ukraine and moldova to the european union, this is the expansion of nato to the east, and all this, in my opinion, has already been proven, it is exclusively a geopolitical tool for imposing rivalry and ensuring dominance in europe by those who from century to century this ideology of inequality, imperialism and colonialism. preserved and passed on to his own

generations literally as a testament. mr. illa, but if you look at zakharov, when she speaks ukrainian, she is even pretty. everyone here speaks ukrainian. you, you have learned the language and speak ukrainian, and we are forced to relearn it, but i can't look at her when she speaks russian, look, really, tell me, what if in... ukraine becomes on the rails of the european union, sooner or later it will happen, we will become members of the european union, will this mean the collapse of the putin regime, because if zakharova believes that the european union, ukraine in the european union is a sign of equality in nato, and nato after the european union will be for ukraine and for moldova, will this mean the collapse of putin or not? oh, i may say a sad thing, but i believe that until we destroy putin, we will not stop. and not

eu members, nor nato members, they will be afraid, that is, you think that you will win faster than we will join together we will win faster, we, we can do it without you, this is ours, this is our joint victory, without you you mean non-ukrainians, without ukrainians, but you are a citizen of ukraine, you you yourself, you yourself i you how do you identify yourself, i ukrainian, i am a resident of kyiv. but i am a ukrainian businessman, i am a russian politician, that is, it turns out that you are a citizen of ukraine, you are fighting for power in russia, well, of course, who else can see them, you see them, even they can, well, me, to be honest , the most, the most in your meeting, if we talk about the lviv meeting, i was most disappointed by gelman, gelman's presence at this meeting, because i remember how marat gelman was one of those people who trained... into politics in

the campaign headquarters yanukovych in 2004, and he was quite active, by the way, he worked with medvedchuk then, well, here he was presented more as a gallerist, although he was a political technologist and was once the head of russian public television, and to be honest, it is also a mystery to me, the composition of those people you have were there, you see, gelman actively worked against me there in... in the early 2000s, also in politics, because he was part of fep gleb pavlovsky there, i remember it very well, i remember it very well, but there were other people with whom i also had difficult relationships before but good relations for now, because there is a simple approach, if you are now for the victory of ukraine, if you help her, if you risk your life... mr. gelman was at ground zero, he went

to the legion, he helped them, he did a lot , there he even has an award for it, he could not do it, here is mr. khodorkovsky. did not do this, but gelman did, and we are grateful to him, and if he will continue to do this, then, i believe, this will be such an atonement for what he, he did then, he has already said publicly many times that he would be wrong that it was a crime, and that also distinguishes him from others, then... then he understood that, and the cultural community that is generally there around mr. gelman, he's just on our side more, more and more people translates, the cultural community is an influence on the minds, it is very, very important, and it is also

fundraising and recruiting, that is, it is very beneficial to ukraine now, the very end, i understood what you want to do with the current russian. with putin, and i don't understand what you want to do with china, because china is a part of modern russia, and the british they say that the chinese are allegedly helping the russians, and the spokesman of the ministry of foreign affairs of the people's republic of china, wenbin called the british defense minister grant shapps's baseless, irresponsible statement, let's listen to what wang wenbin said. we would like to tell the british politician that appeasement of china will not help great britain to get out of the difficult situation regarding ukraine, moreover, it will not solve the country's complex internal problems. china was and remains on the side of peace and dialogue. we will continue

to work hard to promote peace negotiations and oppose fanning the fire. you know i asked you about the good ones. russian, but are there any good chinese? there are, i know them, i was the leader, the head of the friendship group between the state duma and the taiwanese, that is , there are chinese, i know one hundred percent, but let it be a matter for the united states, fighting with putin and with china is too much for us now, let us let's focus on putin, i'd rather remain neutral on this issue. thank you. thank you, mr. ilya, it was ilya ponomariev, a russian oppositionist and a former deputy of the state duma of the russian federation. friends, i remind you that we are working live, today we are conducting a survey, today we are asking you about whether ukraine should cooperate with the russian opposition, yes, no, everything

is quite simple on youtube and facebook, you choose the option either yes or no. if you, sitting in front of the tv, can vote, thanks to the phone and... on the appropriate numbers, if you think that it is worth cooperating with the russian opposition in ukraine 0.800 211 381 no 0. 800 211 382, all calls to these numbers are free, now let's look at the interim results of the television poll itself, we have 35% yes, 65% no, well, that's it, it's already much better than it was before. hello, this is svoboda ranok, an informational project of radio svoboda. top guests every day. this is the shipping district, kherson. turn on live.

we are somewhere in the vicinity of bakhmut. we tell the main thing. on weekdays at 9:00. hello friends, this is the verdict program, the second part of our program, and today we will talk to you about the following. the formula for sustainable peace. macron admits that putin is not ready to end the war. why are western partners delaying a decision on the future of russia and its dictator? delegitimization of the ukrainian government. the kremlin continues special information operations to open the domestic front. what can split ukrainian society? five years at the helm of the state. the anniversary

of zelenskyi's presidency passed without pathos. why is the president in no hurry to report on his achievements during his first term. more on that later. from the next 45 minutes we will be speaking on air with my colleagues, by journalists olga musafirova, i congratulate you olya, i also congratulate kateryna nekrecha, i congratulate you, kateryna, thank you for joining. to our conversation, greetings, colleagues, greetings to the viewers, i will remind our viewers that we are working live on the tv channel and are conducting a survey today, today we are asking you about whether it is worth cooperating with the russian position in ukraine, yes, no, everything is on youtube quite simple, either yes or no, if you have your own opinion, separate opinion, please write in the comments below this video if you are sitting in front of the tv and have a smartphone or phone at hand, vote for the numbers if you think that ukraine should cooperate with... the opposition 0800 211 381 no 0800 211 382 all calls to these numbers are free

vote at the end of the program we will match the results of this vote, well, with the same question in the format of a poll, we will start our conversation today's big conversation with my journalist colleagues olya, what do you think, is it worth cooperating with the russian position in ukraine, and if so... what should we talk about with it and how should we cooperate? sergey, as you know, i don't have a clear answer, i would rather answer the question with a question: is there a systematic opposition in russia with which you can cooperate, and then where this opposition is located, inside. outside of russia, we are in principle realists, and to cooperate simply

in order to maintain good relations, well , it seems to me that this is not our method, we have to proceed from some pragmatic things, we need the russian, russian opposition in order to, and in order to hold democratic elections in russia, in the empire. democratic elections cannot take place, the empire must be dismantled, well, this is such a program at the very, very maximum, and the population of the empire must go a long enough way in order for it to really be able to walk, participate in the elections, the opposition must train the population, the russian opposition must prepare the population. russia, after putin is removed from power, the country, if it

remains the same, within the same boundaries as now, it will be, as we say, under the protectorate of the free world, so far it is like this, forgive me far- distant plans that... i would rather talk about something more concrete than about cooperation with the russian opposition. thank you ul. katerina, in your opinion, should ukraine cooperate with the russian opposition, because our viewers are also probably thinking now when they vote or decide how to vote, yes or no, what do you say? i see that now the majority of voices on youtube are against it, they think that it is not necessary, but in principle they seem logical to me. the arguments of the ukrainian authorities there, who obviously supported

and gave permission for russian citizens to be there for example, we went to the territory of ukraine, and the arguments of ilya ponomarov, i saw, he was on your air, sergey, and this morning i talked to him on the air, that is , the arguments of what and what and the democratic elections in russia and the opposition there could compete with the russian regime, obviously there is no one close to it. sometimes you don’t see such prospects for it to happen, but there is a representation of the russian opposition in the world, the most famous person at the moment, and this was recognized by time magazine, yes, where she entered the top there, so, the most famous people are yulia navalna, the reasons for this seem to be obvious, however, imagine, hypothetically, it is impossible there, it did not happen, but if such a famous person from the russian opposition declared that ukraine should be supported. weapons, we need a military victory, and a victory by military means, it is impossible to come to an agreement with putin,

and would then, for example, the biden administration have doubts or argued for a long time about whether to give ukraine permission to strike western american weapons on the territory of russia, military facilities on the territory of the russian federation, well then it would probably be more difficult to hesitate in the white house, and ilya ponomarov notes that the russian opposition is so different, here you are... he managed to unite around the very issue that ukraine has to win by military means, that is, something serious must happen on the battlefield in order to move this process further towards... the end of the war, and here are such people, they gathered, representatives of the russian opposition, there is yulia navalna and fbk, they against such a thing, and for speaking there, that's why they have it here already, as noted by ponomarov, there are immediately differences of opinion, and, well, for the world , there is perhaps not one russian opposition that is united, but there are bright representatives of this

russian opposition, some of them were here in lviv or near lviv, and and this is also argu'. and the indicator, russian citizens fighting on the side of ukraine is also a serious argument, that is, it is better if these arguments were definitely for ukraine, or if they were completely absent, in my opinion, well, what about yulia navalny, it is very doubtful that she to be called an oppositionist at all, she is a wife an oppositionist who was killed by putin in prison, well , it would be possible to put an end to it here, because yulia navalna is not currently engaged in any opposition activities, well, at least. wants to be the president of the russian federation there, or does she want the overthrow of the putin regime, that is, she does not openly talk about it, she is the wife of alexei navalny and everyone perceives her as a part of the possible opposition, but those who are called the opposition or whatever they

are positioning themselves, they really gathered in lviv at the forum of the russian opposition, there was... an adviser office of the president of ukraine mykhailo podalyak, who said that putin's regime in russia can be overthrown only after ukraine wins the war. let's listen to what podalyak said. there is a tsar, there is a tsar, he has the surname putin, then there will be the next tsar, and so on and so forth. unless there is a rupture on the battlefield. now the rate is very clear. now they are bogged down, they have completely rejected the disguise and now, for something positive to happen, they... must lose in the war, only in the war, everything else is an illusion, agreements are impossible, rules russia will not comply, it will not be able to become law-abiding, the only option is once again a tactical defeat on one or another part of the front, not on the entire front, on one or another part of the front. that is, olya, i understand that podalyak admitted that the russian

opposition will do nothing, that only a military defeat can lead to the collapse of putin's regime, and this one. the military defeat that ukraine will inflict and the ukrainians will inflict this, will inflict this defeat, will open the door for russian oppositionists, although ilya ponomarov, who was literally half an hour ago here in the studio, he said that they are ready to go to moscow, they have russian volunteer battalions and fighters who are ready to fight on the territory of russia for power, i asked him to name, well, at least approximately how many. they have partisans all over russia who work on the side, or shall we say in favor of ukraine. why was this forum in ukraine, the russian opposition, what does it give ukraine first of all, i'm not saying what it gives the russian

opposition, what, what, what will we get from this? thank you serhii, i would have asked the same question, well... since we are ukrainian-centric and citizens of ukraine, then we must first of all act out of our own interests, not the interests of the russian opposition. it is beneficial for us to deal with people who call themselves the russian opposition, although i have already said that it is such a rather theoretical structure, that is... the russian opposition, well, like any opposition, it is motley, does not reconcile with itself, but again, that's none of our business. so, here i would immediately like, you know, how in the theater to shout out the author, who was the author, of this, forgive me, i will call it the political attraction of this event, if gur, but

well... since mr. budanov supported and spoke positively about this story, i am a little sad, because it seemed to me, as a civilian, at least that the special services have slightly different powers and goals, and if this is true, this event was planned by e. with the help of the main intelligence agency, then he, again, in my opinion, a civilian, should have passed so secretly... that none of us knew about it, especially that we did not talk about it in live and not discussed because it is important

the question, yes, quietly came, quietly left, about a partisan on the territory of russia, great, about the plans of the rdk - great, the rdk does not shine much light on its soldiers and commanders, and i understand why and that is right, people are fighting, they have left in russia family friends, social connections, nobody needs this publicity, that is, they are going against the imperial monster, and what do we see, we see photos of the scene, where the representatives are standing, where the banner is hanging, the forum of the russian opposition, and well, this is very , i would say, such a secular political event, what? is the opposition gathering at all, any, well, any opposition is gathering to discuss the question of how we, the opposition, will

come to power in russia? well, i have no other options, if this event is secret, i saw in some publications that a secret event of the russian opposition took place in lviv, no. not secret, very publicized, we talk about him all day today, well, then i don't understand anything at all, and i don't even understand the fundamental questions, how many of those representatives of the opposition who came to lviv are citizens of the russian federation, usually people who live outside the borders of russia, they have... another citizenship already, citizens of britain, citizens of the states there, of ukraine, whatever, that is, they cannot enter the territory of russia, especially

if people came from the territory of russia with russian passports to ukraine, here they were named and shown on stage what they did it for, these people, they a priori cannot occupy then. any partisan or subversive work, that is, work that would be interesting to us ukrainians during the war, and they will be engaged in political activities, well then please, but this is a process so distant in time that i don't see the point in discussing it now, who will be the next president of russia, which party will change... maybe there is no such thing. well, ilya panomaryov, who was on my air, he said that they were considering the issue of possibly creating some kind of government that is either in exile or an alternative

government, and it seems that they have already agreed on something, started working on it direction, well, at least they formed some working groups there. kateryna, you believe in russian the opposition? oh, this is not a matter of faith, it is... a matter of facts and what we have now, of course, it would not be bad for ukraine if it were so, but we understand the path taken by vladimir putin and his entourage, in order to that this opposition would not exist at all, that there would not be nimtsov, khodorkovsky, by the way, for 10 years, let's not forget, sat in a russian prison, and now he came to lviv, there is a difficult history, his own path, well, now we have what we have , as the classic said, but here i would like to point out that... it was as if secret, such a pr he was given a good one by the mayor of the city of lviv, who apparently did not know about its holding, and then it turned out that some

journalists were also there, in fact there were not many microphones, if you look at the photos, i would like wider, wider coverage, maybe that is, it seems to me that at the moment they did not know about this forum, and then they found out about this whole thing because of such a media scandal, which, by the way, i also asked on the air this morning. ponomarova , why is it lviv, why was this forum not held in kharkiv, why was it not held there in in zaporizhzhia, in dnipro, well, it already happened in kyiv, yes, but if, it seems, if the russian oppositionists, they came to ukraine and not to lviv, where, after all, we understand, it is safer there, after all, to kharkiv, well, come on it's dangerous there, well, i don't know, in a bunker somewhere, in the subway, to feel that atmosphere, just when russian, russian troops, they are advancing and advancing in... kharkiv region, and it would be symbolic and it would surely show ukrainians well, more courage or something, because i saw a lot of comments

on this topic, why in lviv, and what? to efficiency, effectiveness, it seems to me that this is such a main factor again, for ukraine's international partners, but now, even today, we heard from putin that he is again talking about how he is ready for negotiations, and we remember we are arguing that it is not ready in ukraine, and this, and this is before the peace summit is to be held, and this seems to me to be a very important argument for the ukrainian side, that look, we are saying with the russian opposition, we with... we meet, we with we somehow try to formulate our future with them, that is, there is no such thing as ukrainians simply do not want to communicate with the russians there in any way at all, there is no such thing, so it seems to me that from this point of view it is an important factor, i would also like to draw attention to the fact that i also i saw on social networks some phrases of mykhailo podolyak and they tried to make a scandal out of it, i understand what kind of figure and possibly an irritant mykhailo potolyak is for part of the ukrainians there, and of course for all ukrainians he is an irritant in general

for the russians there... citizens who came to of ukraine to some forum there, but it is also important to hear all the direct language and certainly understand this issue, what was said there, and this is important, because it was said that there should be at least a tactical victory in an important area there on one of the directions in the war in order for russia to receive this defeat and then stop there, that this is an important moment, and podolyak also emphasized that it is normal that ukrainians do not have a very good attitude towards russia there. those conditions that exist, because, well , these are such realities, it was lya ponomarov who spoke about it says, that is, it seemed that the realities were clear, but i would like to hear more direct speech, to be honest, in order to make a complete picture from all the russian oppositionists who came and who presented theses, what they said, whether it changed in any way, changed the course of thought, perhaps over the last two years, and this is a secret, or rather unannounced, forum of the russian opposition.

it is a secret what they said, only ilya ponomarov speaks and makes this information public, and god be with her from this russian opposition, from russia, you want to add, i would added literally, i remembered this meme attributed to kuchma, this has already happened, this has also already happened, remember how during the maidan, khodorkovsky came to kyiv triumphantly, and it was wow, these were meetings, he was just such a person for us. a political prisoner, a prisoner of conscience, came here from russia, and he brought good news, namely: you are great guys, you are democrats, we are proud of you, and on this occasion we will build the core of a new russia on the territory of ukraine, it was verbalized, yes, something, i think. what

this is an attempt, attempt number two, yes, that ukraine is again, it is so mainstream, despite our internal quarrels, to the fact that we have failed mobilization, well, let it not fail indefinitely, but there are many problems, but still ukraine is resisting , pouring his own blood, resists putin, what the russian opposition did not do, which... called for fighting with ducks, balls, flashlights, anything, and now the second attempt to get on the last car of this ukrainian train, which may blow somewhere in europe, and we are together with them, you know, we must to invest in the victory of ukraine until...

there are no questions about the rdc, they invest, they fight , they die, as they can, they work anyway, all the others are people who, forgive me, with passionate words and gestures, over the course of many years , asserting democracy outside of russia, i see no point in arguing with them. thank you olya, i will remind our viewers that today we are conducting a survey and asking you whether ukraine should cooperate with the russian opposition, yes, no, everything is quite simple on youtube, either yes or no, if you have your own separate opinion, please leave it in the comments under the video on youtube, if you watch us on tv, you can pick up your smartphone or phone and vote yes 0800 211 381 no.