and then it turned out that in our country it was all our own, and then here it is a little bit to the side, but somewhere in the beginning of the 90s , these, you know, very advanced swedes began to come to us and tell us about feminism, but it turned out that we already had everything here, and when they were there, they were somehow talking about so-and-so, and what, who should teach whom, you had women there in red scarves, you had these, so there are feminists there of that generation, and of course. here was the most interesting thing, solomia could, again, solomia could continue a very quiet career as a professor and researcher of english literature, and what is called, well , traveling abroad and especially not being accepted, but it was more interesting for her, she consciously chooses, she actually changes her profession a little, she consciously chooses ukrainian studies, well, we were it is infinitely interesting, we are talking about this famous, this famous correspondence between lesya ukrainka and olga kobylyanska, this is already for... now

everyone already knows it, and at the same time no one ever reads it, and here we are reading it, well, we read it in volume 12, we, we think about it, we we are trying to figure out what was there, and in the end it turns out somewhere there is a page of the yellow press, some newspaper from bokyiv or some other such already forgotten yellow press, they gave an interview to a ukrainian woman, so they gave this interview solomiya pavlychko and again solomiya was aware that this was the way to go to this yellow press. it is necessary to talk about it in general, well, this, this was also, she, she was not, she was not only an academic researcher, but still her absolute academic work the discourse of modernism, it was simply written like that, er, what it was, it was written so transparently and beautifully that it ceased to be academic for a large part of people, and people simply began to read it. everyone said: listen, you

read, there is such and such a page, then there is this, on such and such, read, read the page, on the one hand, on the other hand, it is a dissertation, but then again, dissertations are still written like this in our country , so that no one reads them, we have such a fashion, our fashion is so stupid, i'm sorry, because they don't know better to write, but solomina wrote a book, this book was first published by libid publishing house in a small amount, sold out in a few weeks, and began to spread here. and then, but tell me, please, it was a defense, it was a defense, these two two things, now i will come to the defense, and this is the dissertation, and well, imagine what courage it took to be so small, this little young a woman, not tall in appearance, thin-skinned, so-called, and that's what you need to have the courage to present these theses for the defense, for the doctoral defense, well, how about you you say, i'm reading what... here, there were two

things that you should, of course, that poked your finger: read, first of all, the correspondence between lesiv ukrainka and olga kobylyanska, solomiya, then, solomiya is very good, her style is impeccable mostly, and this is her definition, i often quote it, she, she called this correspondence a lesbian fantasy, she was not talking about, well, there was also a ukrainian lesbian, as the yellow press asked, she was talking about a lesbian fantasy. she talked about the lesbian discourse, she talked about the phenomenon of female friendship, which is there was already researched in modernism, on the example of virginia woolf or rebecca west , it was already 101 years since it was researched, it was all completely new for us, and for her, for her, lesya ukrainka in the context of virginia woolf, i can say this is one thing, and the other is that everyone they poked a finger there, it was our beloved dumontovych, and she was writing a book about dumontovych, she dreamed of writing a book.

thoughtful, we talked a lot about domantovych, and there was this quote from dr. seraphicus, i asked seraphicus, they asked the insects where you are, and where is your husband, and in korvena, where is yours and korvena’s, and where is your wife, a hint of a homosexual relationship, and therefore a husband, a wife, a homosexual couple, well, but there was no way to object, because it was a quote from a classic, well, although domontovych then it was not really perceived as a classic, but... in the same way, but excuse me, what was it like then in general, who was then at this defense, who was sitting in the hall, which, what was the institute of literature then, who was sitting in the hall then, these are those people who laughed at you for your feminism, said girls were making something up, or who were we defending ourselves, i she defended herself on december 18, she is 19, we defended ourselves every day, when i entered the defense hall, i realized that the average age... of the academic council before which i am speaking is somewhere

under 80 years old, well this, this difficult, but to my credit, i have no complaints against them, they did not really understand what we were saying, maybe, but... there was not a single voice against it, the council was unanimous, they too, they too in their own way , they are victims of that, they tolerated us, they, they could mock us, but they wanted our growth, so to speak, it is not necessary to do so, well, but they were there, but there were other people present, but there was such an episode in solomiya during the defense, i described it in my memoirs, so the defense is conducted by igor dzevarin, igor devarin is the director of literature, the head of the council, he is the author of the only book that he read 100 times. about leninism, that means the leninist concept, something like that, or the concept of leninism in ukrainian literature, something like that, no one read it, but it was, well, but ihor oleksandrovych was not in the end, he was not an evil person, he was some kind of, well somehow it's not fireclay, he didn't do any, as far as i know, he didn't do anything bad, but nothing good,

let's put it this way, and now everything seems to be moving, well, what is protection, even now, and then it was terribly so so so so so so so so so so so so so quite... this means that step by step everything is planned in advance, by the way, but we haven’t changed it so far, this, as i always say, that we can defend doctoral theses by a person who just knows how to read, more nothing, because everything is read from a piece of paper, huh, at some point in during the discussion, a man who is unknown to no one comes to the podium, in the environment everyone knows everyone, it’s as if, a man who is not known to anyone says that i am a chemist, i am a candidate of chemical sciences, and he begins to accuse solomiya of the fact that she... blasphemed lesya ukrainka, i will tell you now, i have never told anyone about this before, when i was cooking, and now i will return to the defense, when i was cooking 14, but ukrainka in the 21st year, i think, i do not remember the last name now, there is a candidate of chemical sciences, who

for many years there ran such a blog about foxes ukrainka, who collected her, so there is a site about the site, or rather about lysya ukrainka, i think it was him, because of my age and i'm not much of a chemist. well, just not a ukrainian woman, how can you call her a person, well, understanding, he sincerely came to defend lisya why she cannot be called a person, in the end, well, one word, but to her credit, again, to the credit of the learned council, she did not react on chemical, on chemical arguments, and solomia rushed to defend, and the head of the council rushed to defend, she then told me, well, but i... i was very scared, and the learned council defended her, she was defended by the council, but she then told me so, i was very scared at first, but he spoke for so long that i managed to control myself, and when this chemist was saying all this for a long time, she went to the podium, and it was, it there was, i will never forget this scene, here stands this young, pretty little

woman like this and says: "i believe that there are no such things that you can talk about in private, but you can't in literature there are no such things that you can talk about ..." speak privately, but you can't write publicly. it's now, it's now easy to say, but then, it was impossible to just say, absolutely, whether you, i know that you collected and released literally everything that could be released from her computer, or you, when you read her texts now, do you feel the 90s are there, because that's all her writing for me, everything i read is very much about the 90s, it's very much about that time. but also a lot of what she said then, it sounds absolutely relevant now, and you know, when you know well, well, everyone without exception, when you know well who wrote the text, i always hear the intonation, here i i hear her intonation, i hear her voice, that 's clear, but - that, well, i think it's

a unique case, when a doctoral dissertation written in the 90s, early 90s, is being read today by the generation of zoomers. yes, that is, we published, we published everything that could be published, a good book of memories was published about slomia, valentina kyrylova worked here, here, here, and the publishing house of the foundation, i am grateful to them, that is, well, i think that well it was more or less done, it's important, one more thing is important, it should be republished, if we talk about straw books, i think it's her best book after all it's about krymskyi, it's her last book, she's the director there... well, solomi is the owner of the publishing house, valya kyrylova is the director of the publishing house, solomi can't write any more, because the material is inexhaustible, she's licking her lips, so to speak, something new from the archive , and kyrylova asked, i am asking you as the director, when will you submit the manuscript, well, i will submit it on february 1, she passed away

on december 31, that is, this manuscript was almost finished, it was prepared, it was published, and it is also such an absolute, absolutely innovative work, from one. no one then i didn't know crimean, it's just a hidden name, it was simply forgotten, we forgot many names, and she always told me, i 'll read it later. i feel a sense of guilt in me, because i overread him in my discourse of modernism, i did not remember him, he is one of our most powerful modernists, this sense of guilt before the object of research, so to speak, is a very ethical position after all , so this is what oksana zabushka calls nobles in an ambush, absolutely, absolutely, i wanted to apologize, we have so little time left, i promise. talk about basics, you started talking, i interrupted you, so in 1992, it seems, this is how she

founded the publishing house basics, and this is against the background of the fact that everything is lying, the publishing house has nothing, there is no money, and this publishing house appears, everything is lying, nothing no, everything is gone, you just have to go to poland to trade and do nothing else, against the background of all this, yes , she had the opportunity, she could, she had the contacts she could, which she had already earned. in the western world, one way or another, the publishing house, it was not, it is necessary was to have her courage, in what sense, this is not just a publishing house that will publish lady chatterley's lovers, for example, or some kind of erotic novels, she founds a publishing house that is so on western money on a western grant, but a publishing house that will publish , well, in the literal sense of the basis, which will give the father classical texts for education, and let's say the basis, well, after all , there are two after all. two things that we, that we owe only to solomia, if it were not for her, we might still have them, or at least not very soon

were translated, so among the first editions the second gender of simona de bovar was already mentioned, and here is solomyan, when i learned that simona de bovar was here at the anniversary of shevchenko in the 64th year, she did not know this, i still have it, you know, i still have this, one day i will learn something new, i think about it, but i want to tell her, well, it is, but she did not know, because it is not... his wife, no one here recognized her, and a friend a book that was very important is sexual politics by kate milet, so it's an absolute classic of feminism, and after that, because what else would i like to talk about, and solomiya as the director of the publishing house, or not the director, she was the chief editor there, there will also be such funny things, that's right... there are no rules when watching the game did not say: listen, well, we bought a gazelle here, they registered it on me, well, i

understand that i, well, how will the police stop me, well, what am i going to do with this gazelle, and she is driving, well, she is behind she was not driving, but she was, she had a passport issued for her, it was somehow hers even then, then it was all on her, everything fell on then, on then, when i was driving a woman, what a young woman, who was driving a car, it's just now. a woman behind the wheel is nothing strange, and even then it was something like that, wow, a woman behind the wheel, well, that, then it would simply be absolutely unprecedented in the full sense of the word, it was something so completely, exclusive, let's say so, i want to ask you, you very often talk about the fact that nothing is born from nothing, yes, we, i understand that solomiya pavlychko is the same and and the product of some kind of atmosphere that existed in dmytro pavlychko's house. yes, tell me about it, how she, how, what kind of relationship she had with her father, did they have any discussions with

her father, yes, about her position, in general, how this world shaped her, maybe she talked to you about you see, i recently, something we were looking for copyrights for a non-canonical canon in vihol, i somehow so, well, what is it called, counted on a man that there were almost none of us children of the sixties left in ukraine, all mostly for the border and solomiya always, once we were traveling with her somewhere from prague, it seems that we once traveled on a train for a day, i remembered this phrase: my dad wrote a lot of good and a lot of bad beliefs and my dad also wrote a lot of good and a lot of bad poems , she was conscious, she was critical enough, but she is always, she is always and this is true, this is a true definition, a healthy, healthy definition. pavlychko also wrote many good poems, well, soviet poems, that is, pavlychko should be divided into ukrains, like the majority

of this generation, or maybe like all of them, here a soviet author, here is a ukrainian author, that’s how they were, and this ukrainian identity and the soviet one, they coexisted, and she always said, well, she was proud of my father, she said i grew up in my father’s library, they argued a lot, especially about frank, about franka, there were fights between her and... i said, but he said more than once or twice that she is so smart that i am a little afraid of her, somehow yes, but i still want something, maybe some more memory, tell me, well, maybe memories to be many, because you see, she was aware that she belonged to this environment, she she somewhere there are her memories in some interview about those new year's mornings,

new year's celebrations for the children of writers, there was vasyl zemlyak, there, there was, so there were, where there was a fight, she knew them all, but she didn't have it, she absolutely didn't have it amazing, she absolutely didn't have this elitist superiority, she was faster, she is faster, that's what origin obliges, she tried rather, she took incredible care of everyone, she tried to give back, which is called, if i am given a lot, then i am i share with you, this is a rather unique ethical trait, and it really is, well, i can hardly name anyone, who... who would have behaved like that then, that is, you could come to solomia, borrow books, you could come to solomia , just to take her time, and many abused this, to take her time and talk and ask for some kind of advice there, but at the same time, let me mention one more purely to somehow humanize the image of the 92nd year of the 91st the year is coming, solomiya, i

'm going to some course or somewhere, believe me, let's go, there are three invitations, four invitations, let's go to prague to study at the soros university for two weeks, well, thanks sol, and this is the 91st year, it's nothing, well, it's nothing , nothing is impossible, impossible, there's no passport, there's no, there's nothing, well, the only thing i'm saying is, well, listen , well, we have to go, we have to go to those ticket offices near the railway station at that time, we had to stand in line, there was some kind of password, we had to tell the cashier the password from the revival fund and we were to be given tickets. as it is, it means that i come there early in the morning, stand in a long queue, i come, i say, tickets, they tell me, give me money, i say, we were told that the money will be transferred, no, we don’t give without money, well, i have such an amount, for me at that time it is some kind of fantastic amount, i went to postpone the tickets , i am typing, it is early morning, i am typing straw, i say salt, that's it, i

'm going now, she leaves bohdan's half-asleep very small car, brings her money. money, we buy all these tickets, we all go to prague, well, the tickets, the money was returned, then everything, but this is her identity, she could say, but our it's me, i can do it all without you, there are a lot of episodes like that, here are some of those cultural tragers, that is, i say once again, i'm very naked on this, she wanted not just to shine as a single star, she wanted to be a constellation i and the galaxies, you have done a lot for this, and i have two more questions for you, the first is about modernism and traditions. i remember the end of the 80s, the beginning of the 90s. traditional, but now their children are no longer

conquering the symonenko region, that is , on the contrary, symonenko has become completely different 60. they, that is, this generation already treats symonenko and the sixties differently, or is it because ukrainian literature has already been modernized and there are no longer any threats, who saw then, let's say, in this generation, the generation of andruhovich, nebarak, and others, well, i can't, i can't you, i can't agree with you, symonenko, i don't understand why symonenko is an outstanding poet, maybe he didn't have time to become an outstanding poet, he simply does not have time that's enough, i don't see symonenko, symonenkovshchyna, i mean traditionalism, stus is a very great poet who reformed our language poetically, symonenko is not an outstanding poet, here here here biography worked, this is the case, that is, they did not fight against traditionalism , but just against what they thought, no, that generation, that generation,

well, in the end, our generation, we, we had to search, we were looking for a new language, uh, me me now, me now, when i read... sometimes my there are some old ones, some don't read, somehow i take them in my hands are old, i wonder what kind of language i wrote, how could i write like that, it turns out that i did not know the ukrainian language, that is, we are still not very, well, this is for future researchers, for these for these, well already not even 30, but already 35 years, here somewhere, it all started in 86, let's say 87, as soon as it came, this same perestroika and all those things came, that is, as soon as we started reading, you understand when you read podhogilny, then... you will no longer write the way he wrote, or she wrote, that is, it is the same here, the bubabists, all these avant-gardes were it is important to overcome this tradition. lyrical, why romantic, romanticism as an aesthetic dead end, it is not only her, her personal one, she formulated it well and brilliantly, but it is the feeling of the whole generation that we cannot

write as the sixties wrote, then the greedy poets of the sixties will say there, by the way, this solomiya discovered, let's say, she arranged some translation anthologies, she discovered taras prokhasko for me, well, for herself, then for me, look how well the guy writes, that is, she is she opened like this discovered, well, it was a discovery for her, here she is, i know what she did, she caught these younger ones, she treated them very well, it was interesting to her, and she didn't have this kind of friend there, she was friends there and with andruhovich and everyone else, she couldn't, she didn't have this, you know, that kind of academic superiority over avant-gardism, it was really important to develop a new language, because the language that we got the language of ukrainian soviet literature... the condition of romanov olesya the honchar that we inherited was not good for anything, it was simply not good for anything, it was impossible to say anything more complicated than what honchar wrote about. i

remember, and in fact, this will be such a summary of my family, i remember the shock and upheaval when we learned about her death, it was actually on new year's eve, when the centuries and millennia were changing so much. summer, and i remember what a shock it was for everyone, here you are, i understand that many people then realized the scale of the loss, and did you ever think that if it continued, the person was 41 years old, if she had remained in the culture, or whether it would have been noticeable in the culture, or what she had done, we under each such round date, or even without a date, oksana zabushko and i, sometimes about we are saying that we should write something about it, here we are with oksana, sometimes we talk about it. solomiya should have written, this would be, this is a topic for solomiya, of course, what is she, she was just starting, she wrote in fact, she wrote two books so that they were full-fledged, and a literary critic is, well,

a poet, a poet at the age of 41 this is an already formed poet, a literary critic must live, live longer, so that, on the one hand, she did not write, i have this vision, often this is a book field, on which there are black holes, yes, black holes where we had with... in i have her autographed books at home, they should be there, there should be a whole shelf there , she is incredibly productive, she wrote a lot, you know, she has this vision, she seems to be so elite, well, with from an elite family, such a one, well, what else is there, well, nurtured by fate, such a one, she had no problems, there were many problems, she the village itself had to be seen. we always saw her there, well-dressed, cheerful with those beautiful earrings of hers, by the way, this is from kira shakhova, but kira shakhova taught at our school, and

she and i had, well, that's where this love for jewelry came from, well, besides, we had to beautify somehow that gray reality, but solomia was like that only in public, at home she was frozen with red eyes from lack of sleep and from... powerful reading, she was often asked in interviews, why don't you dye your eyelashes, she always said: i read a lot and my eyes are red and her red eyes are painted, it's kind of stupid, that is, she could come to an interview in jeans and sneakers in a public space right now, it's normal, but then it was a challenge again, well, how come well, how can it be like that, well, i’ll remember now, he was so funny when she was on her first trip to london, and... and she brought herself, as she, as she formulated, look, a very classic english gray jacket and no less classic english gray shorts, shorts, yes, and

when she came to the institute of literature in this jacket and shorts, well, it was something, wow, it was very fashionable then, by the way, well, it was fashionable, but it was, but she is the only one, she is the only one, she she set the trend, what is it called, well, i no longer i'm talking about the fact that solomiya knew how to knit, as she told all her graduate students. for years she wore sweaters she knitted herself, but then she stopped doing it, so she had such a galician mother's upbringing, she knew how to cook everything there and organize some kind of victorian party there, in her youth she sometimes did it, then not anymore, well yes she is it was also changing, oh, how many beautiful things we remembered with you and most importantly, what needs to be completed, and i feel that we have only talked and just started, well, there is a book of memories about solomiya, there is a lot to read, read, read a book of memories about solomiya , and both her and her works, those that she managed to print and publish, actually write and publish. thanks to vera ageeva, who was with us,

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