540, you don’t have that much of such a population, it’s time, and the border with belarus, where the polish population lives, some call it the polish-speaking belarusian population, it’s such a complicated, i would say ethnic history, but it’s an opportunity to play on the sentiments of national minorities or on the mood of people who still watch russian television, well, russian sources of information, this is not some such serious split in... the traditional electoral audience of lithuania, well, there is, there is a split, you know, in what, what to visaines and shelchenenko, pro which you just said, added, added toka such a very large region is called, it is the whole of western lithuania, this is western lithuania, and they voted for people who are exactly against, oppose aid. and there are more or less

pro-russian ones, and why? this is news. by and large, zhymaiti is the cradle of lithuanian national identity, isn't it? but this is a poor region compared to others, maybe it is economic, well, compared to vilnius, all regions are poor, i would say so, well, i would not say so, well, listen, well, if you live in kaunosi, you don't feel such a gap if, as you live in shaullai, well... well, he's not that poor, i was joking, of course, well, i'm speaking conventionally, like so many people, so well , they are this is a little insult to vilnius, as one person there said one of the presidential candidates before the first round, he said that there is such dissatisfaction, that there is also vilnius and... lithuania, well, that's it, that's what i

wanted to ask you , this is what they convey to people, about this story with the appearance on the website of the ministry of defense of russia, the russian government proposals of the ministry of defense of russia to unilaterally change the maritime borders with lithuania and finland, and i was honestly surprised by how different the reaction was in vilnius and helsinki, because in vilnius both the shomonite prime minister and the president spoke quite harshly about it. seda and other political leaders, in helsinki they spoke very carefully, they said that there is nothing for us to know, i think that they discussed it, after all, it was also discussed in riga, recently seven countries, you know these seven countries, that is, from norway to of ukraine, ukraine is also included in of the seven countries bordering russia.

and it seems to me that we have, we are dealing with a provocation after all, and of course it is not very good if near the shores of klaipeda appear , as they say now, that they can claim on such a basis that they are completely legal after their statements, there are some e. corvet. this is unpleasant news. but i think that there is a reaction now in the offices it is being discussed. she is not very social. i understand why. why? so. i say why, you understand why society is not interested. well, i would be interested in changing the maritime border of my own state, let's say. well. they

stole tanks near the banks of narva, this is also that, i am in the same situation, i don’t know, in a civilized, civilized country it is impossible, but in russia everything is possible, they took the tanks and stole them, well, the same here i say, maybe to be, but actually i don't know much about it and... i only have such semi-official sources, that is , they are official, but not allowed to be reported to a wide audience, but i know that it is discussed in lithuania and in other countries, vitaly, i don't know what to say, to add to that, but this word, i can repeat, is a provocation from russia and...

everything they are doing is an attempt to take revenge, to order these countries that help to ukraine, uh, all absolutely, uh, this... and finland, and the baltic countries, and poland, and this will be done by russia, even no one, there is no doubt that they will be contained, well, that is, in fact believe that this is such an attempt to take revenge, including for finland's accession to nato, absolutely, yes, you are right, yes, it revenge, and are ready in general, in your opinion, the baltic countries not to respond to such actions, if there is some kind of hybrid war, they are preparing, but not ready. now we are talking a lot about this, discussing, debating, but, well, we are not quite ready yet, we are not ready, we were not ready, just as we were not ready for disinformation, i think that here we should turn

to ukraine, to the ukrainian journalists for help, because no one has the experience that ukraine has in terms of disinformation, well, it seems to me that ukraine was also at one time not at all ready when this whole russian disinformation campaign was thrown at her, but now, but now, unfortunately, such an experience is not good, so that it could not be better at all, but, well, it is. thank you, mr. viktor, viktor chernyshuk, lithuanian journalist, head of the public organization ukrainian house in lithuania. and he and i discussed the results of the second round of the elections for the president of the republic of lithuania, while we were talking with mr. viktor , they are counting very quickly in lithuania, they counted more votes, 1,102 electoral votes have already been counted, not ballots, but

1102 election precincts from 1895, the president of the republic of lithuania gitanas nauseda is the leader of this race with 80%. by almost two percent of the voters' votes, prime minister ingrid shumanita, who was his main opponent in these elections, and passed together with the current head of state to the second round, less than 17% of the voters' votes, the counting of votes will continue, but we are fine with you we understand that the trend will not change, mrs. shamanita di. can gain votes in the big cities of lithuania, but the speaker will confidently stay for a second term in to the position of the president of the republic of lithuania, which in principle was expected before this, before this election, now we will take a break for literally 5 minutes and continue our program. greetings,

this is svoboda live on radio svoboda. we have already come to the snake itself. the following shots may shock you. live news from the scene. kamikaze drone attacks. political analysis objectively and meaningfully, there is no political season, exclusive interviews, reports from the hottest points of the front. svobodalai, frankly and impartially. you draw your own conclusions. vasyl zima's big broadcast. two hours of airtime, two hours of your time, two hours to learn about the eyelash. well, what does the world live on? two hours to keep abreast of economic and sports news, two hours in the company of favorite presenters, presenters who have become their own languages ​​for many, as well as distinguished guests of the studio, events of the day in two hours, vasyl zima’s big broadcast, a project for intelligent and caring people , in the evening for

espresso. your place is waiting for you, the lights stay on, for dinner, what you love is warm the bed is made, there will be walks, swings and swimming, you are waiting for your streets. at school, in your church, because in your house they see dreams about you, you are always in front of their eyes, they cry for you, they pray for you, we

were surprised, because we knew that you were already somewhere nearby. half the battle is knowing how hard victory is given, and we will do everything to embrace it sooner. you, so when you are at home, when we are together, we are more than a family, we are a nation united around you. congratulations again, friends. we continue the politclub program, with you vitaliy portykov, our guest nataliya pasichnyk, swedish-ukrainian pianist,

director of the ukrainian institute of sweden, welcome ms. natalya, nice to see you, good day, thank you very much for the invitation, you know, i want to start our conversation with such a consideration about such a certain cultural schizophrenia , in which we lived for ten years and continue to live after the beginning of the great war, that is, for a ten-year-old ukrainian, performers, ukrainian artists, i would say ukrainian journalists. known in the world about russian culture, about the connection of russian-ukrainian cultures, about tchaikovsky and prokofiev, which are related to ukraine, and actually did not talk about what is directly related to, i would say, high ukrainian culture, i am not talking now about folklore, about some such things, and about what, in principle, is part of our cultural outlook, if we are talking about high culture, about opera, about ballet, about great literature, about poetry, etc., for 2.5 years ukrainian artists... instead of to tell that we have all this, go around everyone everywhere and try to ban it

russian culture, that is, they are trying to fight against what they have propagated for ten years in a row, and to all my remarks, maybe we can talk about ours, we can’t talk pro-russian forever, either with a plus sign or a minus sign, i meet with complete misunderstanding, so that i have the impression that people understood, as they understood that you can make a career in russian then, so they understand that you can make a career in russian now and... ukraine is falling somewhere in tartarariphschizophrenia, you know, the whole time, and i have a question it's simple, how should we promote ukrainian, because i already understand for sure how we should fight against russian, there will be an army of people ready to make a career on this whole story, and how to show the world that ukraine exists, you know, you're just in all the words were taken away from me, from my practically, what i wanted, very nice wrong word, it really gives me hope. in general, what you are discussing, the fact that to me, as i look and listen to the ukrainian

information space, it seems to me that this topic is in general somewhat in the shadows, and i understand that we we have the survival of the nation now, we now have missile attacks and the like, and talking about culture may not be at the time, but i have been living in the west for 30 years, more than 30 years, i have seen the transformation of this vision of ukraine since the 90s x years and up to our time. so to speak, a collective event from the 90s, yes, when you can probably describe it best, a speech by george bush, who said that no no, do not vote, because ukraine is part of russia, so in the year 91 , 2004, when we first looked at ukraine, like something so exotic, but still its own, and of course, the year 2014, well, the year 2022, and this transformation, i always ask myself... the question, well, why don't they hear us, well, we speak like this a lot for now for for, well, this is

clearly unfair war, so we speak about what we need, and we would be heard, but all the time late, all the time it is, and here i am after so many years of being, well, surely i i look from my point of view, i still think, but at the subconscious level of a collective event, the idea of the country is built on knowledge of culture, and ukrainian culture, cultural heritage has always been such a white spot, and you absolutely rightly said that russian cultural heritage in them, that is, russia in them is associated with high culture, no matter who you ask, this is a country, they will all name dostoevsky and tchaikovsky and the like, and we helped them a lot in this, all these years, just as you said that it is some kind of, well, i actually wanted to ask you a question, because i in i don't live in ukraine, it's very far, how to explain this is some kind of stockholm syndrome, that even now, when we are bombed, there is,

for example, such a narrative in society that it is okay, for example, even our conservatory still has tchaikovsky's last name, and i think that without some strategy, it is probably impossible to achieve this, because the way this cultural diplomacy is done in our country now, i will tell you how the ukrainian institute, how it was founded, and what i am going to tell you in general, was always an impetus, i was on tour in i told paris about mine, and it was 2016 14, i told to their colleagues about russia, about history, how they behaved with us, how just then they seized crimea and the like, and they listened to me, looked at it, everyone said, well, what you are telling, this cannot be, that they have tchaikovsky, they have dostoevsky, and even more so in france, they generally have such a great piety towards russia, and i thought to myself, it is much stronger on a subconscious level than this, that it is

right, wrong, or something like that, that is, it is somehow formed in them, but they do not know anything about ukraine, but... about they know russia, and of course, uh, well, this became the impetus for creating this ukrainian institute, which eventually, right away in 2014, we turned to the ministry of culture of ukraine, and this, and started talking about the creation of a ukrainian institute in ukraine, but well, of course, competing with gazprom, money or some of their propaganda, is it very difficult for us, but for me in... that in 2022 and after, in fact, this big war did not understand a little, i must have told some of my colleagues and such, as you continue to say, what is it, because look, i wanted to, maybe i will give such an example, this in my mind from a collective event, we were

part of russia for so long, and i think that the cultural dimension played a very big role in this... well, they even perceived ukraine through russian culture, one might say, through tchaikovsky, through pushkin, and now, when this window of opportunity seems to have appeared for ukraine, all platforms are pushing us along with the russians, i'm talking about my small or big puddle, yes about high music, and always when they give an opportunity for representation of ukrainian music, something is always added there... and people who have a core, who refuse this, turn out to be some kind of radicals, in contrast to those people who, well, everything seems to be okay, well, we have to represent ukrainian it is ours, and here we have this platform, and here it makes even more confusion in the minds of this collective event, or so to say, listeners and spectators, and explaining

to them that this is not so is much more difficult than it would be. some specific one, no, well, we, we don't do it and we don't know it, that's why i don't know what it's about, it's ours, that is, i know from the western side, i know that ukrainian performers come, they want to make a career, this cultural platform is saturated, one might say, with metastases of russian money, they have to adapt , and so it is, as it is, and, well, whoever has a rod, he, er,... then goes against the wind, but it is more difficult to stuff, but say, let's try to discuss a specific instrument, so we understand what is on on the stages of large opera houses there are german operas, there are french operas, and finally there are russian operas, but there aren’t many of them either, well, there’s tchaikovsky’s roman korsakov, stravinsky’s all about it, but it’s no longer russian opera, so to speak, like what we often see in the repertoire, but here i am, but there is also czech

opera , the truth is also polish, people who go to european opera houses, they... who is scum, who is a dvorak, who is a manyuska, they see it, opera houses are always looking for new material, because they get tired of the same thing , to show, i can already remember ballet for decades, and the question arises, do we have a chance for ukrainian show the opera on the stage of, let's say, the swedish opera house, and the ukrainian ballet, we have all this, we have this, we didn't always have a lot of it, because again, when there was a choice between ukrainian... ballet and russian ballet, we always chose russian, well, it's very simple, we had, let's say there, this, as it was called, the night before stankovich's christmas, which was written specifically as new year's ballets, it did not take place at the kyiv opera, because they believed that loskunkchik is more promising, and it was renamed so as not to show the new one

year, it is still going under a different name, but it is like that, it is the past, maybe it will change, but if... we offer it to european opera and ballet theaters, what should we do to really stage it, because i think that if a person comes, you are talking about the performance of some repertoire, relatively speaking, it is clear that you can stuff lyatoshynskyi, sylvestrov, shostakovich and rachmaninov into one and the same package, and it will seem as if it is music of the same space, but if show the opera in stockholm, then everyone will understand, what... this is not a russian opera, but a ukrainian opera, it's just another, different musical series, is it possible to do it? you know, i didn't know this about stankovich, what you told me about this opera is very interesting. well, i can say from my own experience, actually pounding this rock since 2014, that of course it's all possible, but

it's all extremely difficult, because fighting a shell is practically fighting, well, like a domquixote, and that's it we need some kind of more state strategy, because when an artist comes and says: well, look, i i want to play a concert for tushinsky, he 's like that... my own, that's one thing, and another thing is how, for example, russia uses its resources, some pianist appears in them, let's say, even some not the best, they they take it and immediately all the venues wash it with this rachmaninov, and this rachmaninov concert is played 150 times in the same, well, in all concert halls, well, i would say even more, that is the very concept of cultural diplomacy in ukraine, i would like. .. to hear some discussion of the very definition of culture, because, well, look, what do the russians gain, as a nation with a great

culture, of course, money, an empire and the like, but they are always pushing their dostoyevsky and tchaikovsky, they don't push any bugachova or any commercial art, in ukraine, that's how it is somehow , if there are any at the state level, they talk about cultural. or commercial, and, for example, to offer theaters, at such a level, as it were, strategic, two or three operas, as you say, these operas are not russian, they are literally sheykovsky indeed, and with ballet, it goes with three ballets, just like with photo foam concerts, two or three piano concerts, but everyone knows that, and actually we have, probably... two or three piano concerts as well as 22 and three operas, which at the state level somehow need to make a strategy, where there could be

mechanisms for the easy availability of these operas or these, well, this repertoire, but i would say that, well, this is what you said, that stankovich is there, or who there sylvestrov, lyatushynskyi and shottakovich in one concert, i would say that it... destroys more than it builds, well, i 'm talking about this, because it, it destroys ideas, because in fact, relatively speaking, lutoslavsky and tchaikovsky do not appear in the same context, we are not talking about cultural , about the level of composers, it is true, but no one would think of playing lyutoslavsky and rachmaninov in one package, relatively speaking, because they are different, just different programs, a person can play rachmaninov's concerto, but he will not play. lyutoslavsky's concert in the second act according to the logic of the concert, so, well, it can be done in different ways to build programs, you can build programs not only according to a stylistic, homogeneous,

but some other concepts, for example, i will tell you about our festival, which ended recently, and we built a program about the concept of ukraine as an integrated part of european cultural heritage, and actually it was, well, the red thread of the festival. therefore, programs can be built in different ways, but what is important about this is that you cannot mix it up, and that again, this brings confusion into the minds of this collective event, which creates a fake the image of ukraine, which means further that we are a part of it, a part of their space, but also that we do not have a high cultural heritage, but we do have it, and this strategic vision of the state is a bit lacking for me. well, i will tell you honestly, but continuing the festival, i would like to say that, for example, there are not such unrelated, kinship, as, for example, in

the festival program, such as bach through the prism of a ukrainian musicologist, or jazz with a ukrainian lullaby , that is, these are also not miscible things, but they can be mixed, when there is a red thread, when there are some concepts, when there is of course a very high artistic level as well, and this is very important, but let’s talk about the ukrainian cultural heritage in general and about ukraine as a country with a high culture, it is for single fighters or single players , even if they have a very high status in society, it is very difficult, and here one cannot do without a state strategy, perhaps there are certain reasons for the public reaction to this high culture, because ukrainians have been convinced for decades that what is their culture is folk festival, it is folklore. there are things that , of course, every nation has, and you know, this is also an absolutely important thing, there are whole countries with whole, i would say, folk music tv channels,

which, even in sweden, as you know, all this... there is, but it is simply adjacent to another, and it was not adjacent to us, because when high culture began, it seemed to be russian, urban, and this is all rural culture, which is different, and what in sweden is harmoniously intertwined, in ukraine there is disconnected, and it is very difficult for people to agree with that, and the russians they were always told, and continue to be told, well , this is city culture, and this is your village, well , promote your beautiful village, and here in our city we will make our culture, which is different from yours, because this is already the culture of the city, and when you try to explain to people that everything that other nations have, ukrainians also have in large quantities, well , a simple example, you are talking about diplomacy abroad, in ukraine there was never a classical music radio until the last five or six years there , it simply did not exist, now there are a couple of radio stations, they exist, and ukraine was there for a long time the only country in europe without radios,

but recently i drove a taxi. radio classics were playing there, and it was lyatoshynsky, if we don’t have our own radio classical music, no one in the world will hear lyatoshynsky, if there is, we have a chance that others will hear it, this is a simple approach, if we ourselves are not interested in it, we we can't present it to someone else, and that's absolutely correct, but when i always came to visit my parents, well, even before that , it was very difficult for me to be in some such public spheres, because there, well, practically... even if it was already ukrainian, when we had these e, what is it called, on the radio, as it is called in ukrainian, 80% or 70%, slots, yes, ukrainian, it was always commercial music, that is, never you could hear something else, and i think that the media plays a very big role in this, because there is practically a high, well, so to speak, especially the cultural heritage in the media, well, as far as i

can see, of course, i can't ... judge, but , well, i am also tangential to the ukrainian space, it is practically absent, and this is a formation some certain, look, too, just like in russia, they have these ballets on tv all the time, they have some, i don’t know, piano competitions on tv all the time, we have it all the time, well , or some kind of max-factor or some other voice countries, well, that is, from a completely different level, i think it is also very important for the media to know, well, i have to tell you that you, what you are talking about a certain russia, which now also... which now also does not exist, is russian tv channel culture, but everything you see on mass russian television is no longer what we once saw in the soviet and post-soviet times, putin's russia, this is a country, to put it mildly, far from high culture for the masses, yes, but, but you can't erase all these years with a gunk, all these years, if only they remained, and i it's really nice to hear that, well, how nice, in general, this war, oh god, it's this...

right, i think everyone will agree with me that it's a choice between what she did well, and what if she didn't was, then probably still choose to not have her, but if you look for something good she did, it is exactly what you you say that there was such a great creativity and desire to learn about one's own cultural heritage and also at a high level, but again... i will return to what we started with, what ukrainian artists , well, they are struggling with russian, and well, if they don’t wash their own, and i had a thought, it ran away, i’m sorry, find it, i’ll find it in a couple of minutes, as i speak, i will find it, but the thought is that... you know, knowing

one's own, reporting one's own, eh, we have, i'm sorry, you know, you can see that old age is already coming, well no, i don't know how to formulate what i wanted to formulate, i think that if you know your own, you start to be less interested in what role someone else's plays in the lives of others, that 's what, i think, is the logic, i remembered what i wanted to say, that if our marks, instead of reporting that... spending time and some effort on reporting to the world that tchaikovsky is ukrainian, for example, they are the same you can do and spend your time telling the world that we have lyatushyn chisenko, and that this cultural heritage is not they know not because it has some minor artistic value, but because we had such a history that it was either stolen or...