and from the fact that, while i still see, i cannot say unequivocally, it is very responsible, if so from the point of view of the fact that they have new opportunities for carrying, for striking, and this only indicates that , that the americans should go further decisively to lift the ban on the use of the f16, and give the swedes the opportunity to provide us with gripens, because we need not spoons. how do they make tea rooms, and in terms of weapons and in terms of approaches related to providing, so they are with us at the end of last year, now i will tell you that in the summer should appear, they are moving these f-16s almost before the fall, but they give it right away so that we are not bored in the perception that it can be, well, no more than six f-16s, what are we talking about, the number is there, everything is there, it's definitely difficult, you see, it's definitely a struggle. no one

says, but there are no limits to improvement, and that is why we had to start yesterday, we can see how difficult it is without this, without these aircraft, which are not only the long arm of anti-aircraft defense, but also light attack aircraft that operate on ground these goals, but look, we see that this is not only a problem here, and i see that military veterans, well, retired generals in... the states say, my god, these f-16s could have been in ukraine two years ago, this is the statement today, and we understand , that this is a kind of logic, and we have to push away what we have, and we have, for example, today there is good news, as they say, from the king of spain himself, who met our head of state and the president, a large aid package of 130 billion million euros, and this is only now, and there will be another 5 billion. until the 27th year, well, that's it

not about homeopathy, it’s about large volumes, it’s the scope of the lama, look, the nuance is that we are collecting seven batteries, yes, and we really took into account that there are opportunities in greece and spain, to provide, for example, in spain no no only not so much missiles, we really need them for the patriot, because... this is expensive, but consumable material, but there is a possibility, where is spain and russia, which is there, so to speak, something there, somehow it will be sent to spain some blows, and that they would pass on patriot, but the greeks said that they could not, this is how they have loved since ancient times russians, just not even the same as patriots, but the old soviet equipment, the same strista there and the tenth arrow and hand over the toga. because, well, this

love will not be broken, no matter what the russians do there, and the greeks remain in rose-colored glasses, and here in spain, that is , there are petrias there and there that could be given and they would be included in these seven, which are extremely we needed them yesterday and which we agreed on in advance, well, but we thank you definitely, if they handed us the axis of these missiles or cartridges of the spaniards, we would also thank you, and the missiles... to, let's say, missiles to the patriots will be, so far nothing has been heard about patriot spanish, maybe something not, there was a conversation, well, until they decided on it, yes, mr. igor, thank you for the professional analysis, retired lieutenant general igor romanenko was with us, by the way, now it just has its own background, we will close the sky of ukraine, we just talked about it about the sky of ukraine, if in portugal not everything that was planned and needed...

happened, then it may be possible on may 28, that is, tomorrow, because that is where zelenskyi will be in go to portugal after spain, let's see what's in the portuguese package will be, and in the meantime , in the verdict program, we will talk a little about the same events from the other side, because we have two guests at once, political technologist taras zavhorodniy and political scientist serhiy taran. sir? races, mr. serhiy, congratulations, glory to ukraine, glory to the heroes, good day, glory to the heroes, well, let’s start with the owners of the battle, we just talked about the battles of air defense and rockets and bombs, now we will talk about the battles of peaceful formulas and different, as they say, many summits are good and different. as of this minute, we actually are we know that already over. 100 countries will come to

the peace summit, to the peace conference in switzerland, and there will be a ukrainian peace formula, besides there will be an anti-forum. which i don't know about anti-peace or what it is, i understand that russia and brazil are playing some kind of game, and today they added a third one, it's somewhere in the fall, where they say that ukraine and russia should also be there, there will be a few more forums and in general, what do they want to get out of all this, who will start, mr. taras, let's start, because we started this conversation with you only yesterday, right? well, look, i am to be honest, i was quite skeptical about the peace summit that ukraine is preparing, that meeting, but what is happening around it from the side of russia and china, it says that they are still seriously considering this thing,

they understand the diplomatic consequences all the things that will still happen after this summit, because if you knew, it was so frivolous, well, we talked and so on, yes, but the fact that china and brazil made a joint statement there, by the way, some of it overlaps with what will be discussed precisely at the peace summit, precisely in relation to nuclear security and other issues, but here it should be understood, again, we are often confused when china talks about sovereignty, indivisibility and nuclear security, it is china that is more concerned about itself. because when he talks about indivisibility and unity, he usually means taiwan, and with regard to nuclear security, they are forced to interfere in this issue, because also not because of great love for ukraine, but because of danger to themselves, why, because china

fears that in the case of a theoretical the use of nuclear weapons in ukraine, and they are categorically against this, they understand that this will ... worsen the situation with them, why, because japan and south korea will pressure the united states of america to get their own nuclear weapons, they have the technological base for this has been ready for a long time, has its plutonium, has its missiles, and everything related to this, and therefore they understand that the emergence of two nuclear powers, even such as japan, which , by the way, confirmed its commitment to the defense of taiwan, is will dramatically worsen their situation, secondly, we'. we see the commotion in russia, they are starting to gather the foreign ministers of the brics countries and trying to create another such, you know, another such peace conference, in order to demonstrate their special position, and this is very good

actually, it means that after all, how we did not treat this peace summit, it will have an effect, and we will have a long-term effect, further, why is it happening now... we see the suppression of russia, you know, also throw in from some bodies of the west there about various korean scenarios and other scenarios, peaceful overrun russia is in a great hurry, russia is in a great hurry, because i published an interview on my facebook with such a well-known energy analyst who predicted that at the beginning, when the war just started, that due to the sanctions in russia, it would begin to... energy, even before the strikes of ukrainian drones, they will start to disrupt technological cycles and many other things, and in the fall, in the fall, they will have problems in the energy sector, which we will already see, the whole world will see, that they will be in a very weak position,

that is why they are starting here, you know the moves, let's go quickly agree, peace and so on, and this is again due to the strikes of ukrainian drones, which you already see, these drones. they are already flying from bosnia to novorossiysk, this is a very, very painful topic for the russians, because oil is exported through novorossiysk, it is a non-freezing port, oil goes there to india, china and many other countries, and that is why they sign very much and when there again - will bloomberg throw in there that someone is going to do something with saudi arabia, i'm sure, it's the information war of the russians, they want to blur the effect of this summit, which will be will still take place and try to show that they seem to be ready to negotiate, i believe that this is a lie, as long as putin is in power, the war will continue, mr. sergey, i'm sorry, that's what ex-prime minister kasyanov actually says, personnel reshuffles and that's it , what

putin is doing is actually a long game for years, a war of attrition, here mr. taras says that he is just in a hurry. because the window of opportunity is not that big and there will start catastrophic weapons in the very infrastructure of russia, you see, just two two different things, or you too consider all these. that later, after the global peace summit, they will sit down with the russians in saudi arabia and discuss something there so that it would be talks about ukraine and russia somehow there in person, or is it just an informational and psychological game and influence on our western allies, so that there the cracks are gone, or the strategy? well, unfortunately, it does not happen that wars end during a meeting of some. who are gathering somewhere, they will meet, talk, and the war will end on the second day, such a thing has never

been and will never be, a forum that is gathering in switzerland, this is rather a political forum to bring pressure on the russian federation, primarily the countries of the global south. so it turned out that during the sanctions announced by the west against the russian federation, russia sometimes managed to avoid these sanctions due to the position of the global south, well, look. we see, and it is precisely these countries of the global south that are important, even though they are divided and not united, but they still represent a position, it is important to drag them to the side of good, this is what this forum is for, that is why we see this struggle for the widest possible representation on this forum, first of all for the countries of the global south, well, by and large, we perfectly understand that if, for example, china wanted to, in fact. if there was peace, then china would do it very quickly, it would simply stop buying russian oil, similarly

, india would very seriously contribute to peace, if it really wanted it, if it stopped buying russian oil, but india will come, india will come, and i am leading to this, so now we can see the main one against the background of this preparation battle, the main battle, who will go there, and who will agree with the position that russia is evil, everything it does is evil. and the west and those countries from the global south that fall into this will obviously represent the positions of good, that is, it is happening around this. i think that there will be a serious conversation about the fate of the war in ukraine very soon, but it is not related to switzerland, but to the united states. when the election campaign ends there, i think that trump will most likely, well, at least we can see, according to of the latest sociology, he may have... every chance to become president, he will have such a window of opportunity to say his word

regarding the russian-ukrainian war, and therefore a window of opportunity will be opened for some geopolitical, i would not even say negotiations, trades, and everyone understands this, it is understood in russia as well, it is certainly understood in the united states as well, only they are currently engaged in elections before that, and of course other countries that would like to play some serious diplomatic role in the world understand this, so now these .. advance and declare the desire of their formulas, the desire to take part in this peace in ukraine, and of course ukraine must prepare for this, because we must be ready for any scenarios, i emphasize, for any scenarios that are worse than you see, i.e. , mr. serhiy, will it succeed in russia, for example, thanks to such tricks around various peace formulas, the split in the global south, india is going, the chinese are not going, and so on, will it succeed? this is actually to force them to enter into some

bad, bad scenario for ukraine. well look, i don't believe that any peace with russia will be possible as long as putin lives, this is at least, we must understand that all these diplomatic maneuvers are only maneuvers, we should not take them seriously, we should take them as simple rhetoric that must be listened to, but one must understand the most important thing, the most important thing is that the current russia in its current state will still wage war under any circumstances, but on the other hand, i repeat, ukraine must be ready for any scenarios, because war, it happens not only on the front line, it it also happens in the economy, we see how important it is from the point of view of sanctions, it also happens in diplomatic offices, and in all these points ukraine needs to find its arguments, understanding, i repeat, that russia will not put up with us under any circumstances , i believe, to answer your question, if this happens and there will be... the appearance of a temporary freeze of the conflict is created, then there will be another intrigue, how ukraine will use this time

of this conditional truce, whether it will be arming and mobilizing society, no in in any case, well, to put it mildly, one should not relax, on the contrary, strengthen one's defenses, then there will be chances that at least a new round of war will happen as soon as possible, or maybe it won't happen, or consider then that if suddenly something happens agree that it will be peace, there is no need to do anything, as it seemed to us in 1991, so then the intrigue will be different, how ukraine will use the time it will receive from the conditional armistice, but there are no illusions about that that there will be peace with russia later. shouldn't be, we just have to also understand that the rhetoric of the west will be used, well , the word peace, freezing will be used there, they will say it because they understand it, they know their history, the history of their countries, the history of europe, they will use it, we must take part in it, therefore that we have no way out, we must play this diplomatic game, but at the same time not build from any illusions, and all our efforts

must be in how we will use the opportunities that we theoretically have... it may appear , if this happens and some geopolitical current is imposed, well in general, i believe that another scenario is not excluded, that trump will see that it is impossible to negotiate with putin and will continue to support ukraine even more than biden, and this should not be excluded, we can see what kind of evolution is currently taking place in the circle of these trumpists, who until recently were against aid to ukraine, but now they are for it. therefore, i will repeat, all scenarios will be possible. the worst that can happen to us now is to be ready for one scenario that we draw in our heads, this will be the worst, because the situation is geopolitical is much more complicated than it may seem. mr. taras, can you try now to sum up the interim results of a sufficiently global game, for big money, i mean specifically in russia on foreign fields.

they will not succeed in disrupting the summit, we can already see that, but... this whole game, perhaps, is not even to prevent this summit from taking place, but to get as wide a circle of people as possible, more than some ultra-right people out there and the ultra-left, who can be invited to the st. petersburg forum or given their money in their party, faction or election campaign, now we already see that certain cracks have left, at least, for example, on defense theses, when , for example, the british, the swedes say, they gave you weapons, beat the russian-fascist occupier, and the hysteria in italy, we saw literally yesterday, in fact we categorically against, against, and so on, that is, these are the lines of division, will they manage to gather people according to the peace formula in the same way, who will start

shouting at a high level that listen, there is some formula, let them sit down, let's stop for a start stop . provide financial and armed assistance and everything will come peace. the same things were already said not at the level of some kitchens there, at the level of already high political cuisine, the number of such things increased. well, look, there are two tracks here, we should not confuse diplomacy and the implementation of these, these things. i always, you know, there is such a phrase: a kind word and a gun can be achieved more than a kind word. those are kind words. yes, good words are diplomacy, here, you know, a framework, there, peace and everything connected with it, but it is possible to implement it only with concrete actions, and we must understand that the more strikes on the territory of the russian federation from the side of ukraine, ukrainian weapons, the better it will be for us, we should not hope that someone

will decide something for us, they will, but not at our expense, we must turn... that board in principle ukraine it already does so that decisions are not made at our expense, but at their expense. so, for example, is there anything that the united states of america will be afraid of, they will be afraid of chaos in russia, they will be afraid of the fact that, in general, by the way, they have always played for the integrity of russia so that we do not have any illusions, yes, the last 100 years, and this is also a dependency, this is also a dependency, does ukraine have the ability to organize chaos in russia, yes, if... and technological strikes on the compressors of oil refineries, already on moving targets, on the railways and so on further. when moscow loses the opportunity to pump resources from the regions and sell them to the west, this is a real questioning of the economy. and look what happens. now, if you look at the map of russia, it has always been built to sell everything to europe. they

lived like this for 400 years, they were pumped out of siberia resources and sold to europe. and... here moscow was needed as a center that held the regions, and now the situation is that moscow is not needed, if you cut off the main arteries, then the regional elites, sorry, can sell oil and gas to china themselves, and china nearby, and moscow is not needed in this case, that’s why you still have to understand these things that are interesting to us, the stronger we are, the more we will implement these things, by the way, here... the dialogue was interesting, here regarding changes in the united states of america, there was a hearing in congress, where the republicans called the blinken hearings, there were passages that had never been heard before. mcfaul, who was in charge there, he asked blinkin, he asked, on what basis did you forbid ukraine to strike on the territory of russia?

congress didn't forbid it, but you know, in the american political system , self-government by one of the branches of government is a very serious charge indeed, and mr. blinkin, mind you, he didn't tell old sharmanka about this... this, nuclear escalation, and mr. selivan sounds again, this is a russofi group that actively plays on the side russia, and look, today i continue to say that how can we, how can ukraine change, here is the news today that the huriv people have installed a long-range monitoring station in voronezh, vorskaya, yes 1800 km, and this is nuclear infrastructure, ukraine. to the united states of america, that all these tales about nuclear weapons, the use of nuclear weapons, bluff bullshit, and there is no sense, it is time. next, regarding

trump, look, we have to understand, we don't know what trump is going to do, but understand that the world loves the strong, it's time, but we know for sure what trump will do, 99% sure, he will lift restrictions on drilling. and the export of american oil and gas, the construction of lpg terminals, remove the restrictions on these oil pipelines imposed by biden, this means that the supply of oil on the market will be much greater, and this means that here the question is where russia will send its oil, if ukraine does not have time to stop their export oil tankers, the question here is not what india and china are buying, the question is what ukraine should do. all for that they do not have the opportunity to export their oil and export their gas, well, with the only exception, american companies that pump kazakh oil

through the territory of russia and through the cpc, they have an exception, let them pump, because the government of the united states of america actually paid a season ticket so that ukraine would not be affected by this gas station, but the logistics there are quite complicated, the same thing there. the novorossiysk port is also involved, we will have to be careful here, well, you drew one of the probable scenarios, and i, mr. sergey, am already listening to one there is more than one scenario and i can’t completely understand how it was in saakashvili, the office of simple solutions, but in my head the office of simple solutions sounds like this: er, they give us er immediately, because they are, well, at least there 150-200 f16. they give us a lot of attack commands and everyone loudly says that the weapons are in front of them, as nato said today, and the weapons transferred to the armed forces of ukraine become ukrainian and how they

will use them is their business. this is the second simple solution. the third simple solution is from one of the scenarios you drew for us. if so or else they will come to some kind of ceasefire, then in an adhoc mode, as was done for very long time ago... sweden will immediately accept the territory controlled by the ukrainian authorities into nato, with the automatic triggering of the fifth article. everything, as miho saakashvili would say, here is the office of simple solutions and three simple solutions. and where are the problems? i will tell you what, in my opinion, will be the biggest problem, the biggest problem, if ukraine gets involved in a long-term war of attrition with a country that has five times more. population, which, by the way, this country does not feel sorry for, it can be mobilized, although, i don’t know, at least every tens of thousands, killed, nothing happens to anyone for this, and a country where there is no right

to private property, and where it is very easy to mobilize any resources for military production, what if ukraine joins in a war of attrition for up to years, for many years with a country like this, i think that would be the worst case scenario. all the rest, these are options, not the best, no, but at least, well, you can vary there. it is possible to find some kind of solution, for example, you voiced the so-called german version, which means that theoretically ukraine could be included in nato, but of course the territory controlled by ukraine, well, like germany at one time, the western part was in the civilized world, the eastern part was allegedly occupied by the soviet union, and then years later, when favorable geopolitical conditions appear, germany was able to unite, well, just as ukraine will be able to unite one day. when favorable geopolitical conditions come, well, for example, when russia collapses, or at least russia suffers some huge losses, and, for example, putin leaves his

post due to natural causes. it is possible scenario, there is also a korean scenario, we know it, it is the same as with the german scenario, only ukrainian ukraine is not a member of nato, that is, there are other scenarios, but all i call for is that we avoid any simple solutions, because any simple solution is a simplification, and geopolitics, especially the complex one ukraine has fallen into, is definitely not a simplification, we need to take into account a lot of nuances, for example, i think... the measure did not take into account the nuance that he constantly calculates, by the way, that it will be very easy for russia to mobilize people, because there is a totalitarian regime, as they say in the west, well, how can they mobilize people there, they will go to protests, they cannot accept that they are being sent to oboi, well, they measure it by themselves, in russia it is can be done, or for example, i believe that the west has to some extent underestimated the position of the global south in terms of the purchase of

russian energy resources. or, for example, they did not calculate the greed of their own companies, private companies, western ones, it is precisely their spare parts that are sometimes still found in those rockets that fly to ukraine, they didn't calculate it in the west, they didn't calculate it, so we need to calculate all things, and those scenarios that you voiced, they can also be on the agenda. in general, i believe that we in ukraine should now fight for the preservation of our own state and fight for this state to be a member of the euro-atlantic european structures. this should be a task for us, and the task of restoring territories should definitely be on the agenda, but we should not have illusions and simple solutions that it will happen literally tomorrow. sir sergey, you said about certain common denominators, which is the preservation of our independence, well, about one of the most resonant aspects of this, i also wanted to ask you at the end of the program, look, we talked about the fact that... russia or implements

putin's plan there in the buffer territories in the north of the ukrainian lands, as a response to the raids that were carried out by russian volunteers in the kurshchyna and belgorod regions, or implements another front in order to actually move from the north, further distracting and forces, and resources, and in principle i will continue. there were a lot of problems about which there was a lot of noise, and a temporary special commission was created, this is about this, this is about sovereignty and security, and when it was created, it was all good at first that it was created, and then immediately bad when they started look, analyze, and who will work in this commission, well, the scandal

has continued. all of us were talking from the very first second, and how did two russians from opzh suddenly become part of a temporary special commission with access to state and military secrets under the banned opzh party, one flew out, it was vitaliy abort who was exchanged for him, instead of him, in my opinion, razunkov, which could have been done from the very beginning, another opzzhpzhist and rusamiets anatoliy. the burmich is quietly sitting in a corner somewhere, maybe writing something in a telegram to the fsb uncle, liza bogutska, well, i think that they will make a movie about her too, some kind of movie, not only about mariana , it’s true, she was also changed, but for why was all this done, why is so much cringe, stupidity and everything else happening on such sensitive and important things,

they are torpedoing it, they just want to... not bury it starting or what? well, you see, it is very difficult to talk about any democratic processes in peacetime. and to many, probably, in power, it seems that wartime gives the opportunity to do anything, although it is not so. and, for example, those things that we see in the same way with freedom of speech in ukraine are also very strange to me, because, well, for example, in israel, which is very fond of being called an example, there is not a single telethon, and you can talk about many . which, if it does not touch the details of military operations, so indeed we see that there is much things are happening inside us, to put it mildly, not according to the best scenarios, we see a lot of violations of democratic procedures, and we see it in many places, let's say this, not only where you said, and this, by the way, if that's the kind of strain that could happen to the country if it were to engage in this long-term war of attrition, so at the very least we should bring back the democrats.