with serhiy rudenko. the coalition of determination is expanding. the us does not approve, but does not object to the use of western weapons on the territory of russia. is the kremlin capable of implementing its threats of retaliatory strikes against nato countries? approaching without invitation. at the washington summit, ukraine will receive from nato only another statement about an open door. what changes. in the formulations regarding the prospect of membership in the alliance, kyiv can be satisfied. difficulties in organizing negotiations, moscow insists on a peaceful settlement of the conflict only on own terms. what is the purpose of the russian special operation to promote the idea of ​​zelensky's illegitimacy. glory to ukraine, this is

the verdict program, my name is serhiy rudenko, i congratulate everyone and wish everyone good health. over the next hour, we will talk with our guests about the war in ukraine, about peace, as well as what is happening in the world and, in particular, with our partners in the anti-putin coalition, how western partners are currently considering the issue of granting ukraine the right to strike on its territory. federation, 11 countries have already supported our position that ukraine has the right to strike military facilities and critical infrastructure facilities on the territory of the russian federation, there will be enough topics for conversation today, we will have three guests, they are people's deputy of ukraine oleksiy goncharenko, sbu general viktor yagun and political expert volodymyr tsibulko . however, before starting our big conversation about... i want to watch a video of how

the naval drones of the magura intelligence directorate destroyed two russian ks-701 tunets amphibious assault boats at once in the occupied crimea in order to neutralize our drones on the approach to the vuzka bay, the russians raised combat aircraft into the sky 32 times, in particular su-27, su-30, su-35, mig 29b aircraft. 12 an-26 and k-2729 and mi-8 helicopters. let's see how magura destroyed the invaders' boats.

glory to the armed forces of ukraine and death to the russian occupiers. friends, we are working live on the espresso tv channel, as well as on our youtube and facebook platforms, for those who are currently watching us live there. please subscribe to our pages and take part in our survey. today we ask you about the following: do you understand...

the reasons for a possible increase in electricity prices. yes, no, everything is quite simple on youtube, either yes or no, if you have a separate opinion about the projected increase in electricity prices, please leave it in the comments below this video. if you are watching us on tv, and you have a smartphone or phone at hand, please vote for the appropriate numbers. if you think that the reasons for the increase in electricity prices in ukraine are completely understandable. 800 211 381 no 0800 211 382 all calls to these numbers are free, vote at the end of the program, we will sum up the results of this vote. we have our first guest, oleksiy honcharenko, people's deputy of ukraine, president of the parye committee on migration and refugees. mr. oleksiy, i congratulate you, thank you for joining our broadcast. i congratulate you. mr. oleksiy, let's start our conversation with... another statement by the minister

of foreign affairs of the russian federation, sergei lavrov, who once again stated that russia supposedly wants peace, but only on its own terms, to quote putin's sharer. we repeatedly. talked, in particular at the highest level, that russia remains open to negotiations, but it is necessary to clearly understand that it is about peace, and not about an armistice. it makes no sense to give the enemy a pause that he will use again to regroup and rearm. negotiations should be based on the principle of indivisibility of security and reality on the ground, lavrov said. so, judging by the rhetoric, mr. oleksiy, which... comes from the kremlin, what does putin want? putin, putin wants to destroy ukraine, his global goals have not changed at all, you and i are fine we understand, but at the same time he must

demonstrate to the world a kind of desire for peace, this is his task, because he understands. that the world does not want any war, and putin is playing a game in which he is trying, if it does not sound absurd, to demonstrate that it is ukraine that does not want peace, so what kind of game is being played, russian diplomacy is playing, this must be understood according to us to act, for example, when there was zelensky's comment about the so-called alpine truce, where he said that it does not suit us, well , i think... it was a mistake, because it is from putin should refuse such things, because in the future all this will be used against us, saying, you see, ukraine does not want any peace, that's all, they want this war, who are you helping and so on, so here you just need to understand this and not and not to fall into this

trap, but is this rhetoric related to the upcoming global peace summit that will take place on june 15-16, because well, putin keeps saying that we are not against peace talks with us... but we don't know with whom to negotiate, because according to putin's version, zelensky is the president who lost legitimacy on may 20, 2024, he talks a lot about the constitution, that is , a person who has violated absolutely any international legal norms will be confused about the legitimacy of zelenskyi, that is, they are trying to convince everyone before the summit that zelenskyi is an illegitimate president and secondly , that russia wants peace, that is, they... are trying to outwit the entire world community, well, it is obvious that this is also connected with the peace summit, this is a fact, ah, definitely, because they really don't want to, that this peace summit will be attended by a large number countries, and precisely those countries that are not

allies of ukraine today, i.e. the countries of the so-called global south, but this is generally their game, after all, this game has been played for a long time, where russia is... who says: yes, we are ready for peace, in this way they shake the societies of other countries and give a signal that this is ukraine, that means it is so belligerent, and if so, then why help it, so the fact that the peace summit certainly also worries russia, and it will do anything , so that this summit does not succeed, unfortunately, well objectively, i will tell you, my objective opinion, i do not really understand the purpose of this summit, in case there is not... china, brazil, the republic of south africa, other countries, because if the allies of ukraine gather there again, well, they will say something again that putin should go, well if, and further that, in my opinion, personally, the topic of

bringing western troops into ukraine can be much more productive, that’s how i think we should direct all our efforts to that, but there a different path has been chosen, it is important for ukraine to hold this peace summit, there is already truth there. it sounds questionable biden's participation in this summit, i think that biden will also go only to a successful summit, well , to be honest, this summit causes me concern, and whether we spend our diplomatic efforts and strength there, well, but that's already such a story, it is probably too late to talk about it, now we really need to do everything so that there is still as much of the country as possible, and russia will do everything to ensure that there are as few as possible and at the lowest possible level, well, president zelenskyi... exactly says that almost 100 states and organizations have already announced that they will join the of the global peace summit, despite russia's efforts to disrupt this event, we will listen to what zelensky says, and we are also preparing our diplomatic responses to russian efforts

to weaken the peace summit, which will begin in two weeks. russia will no longer be able to disrupt the summit, although it is trying very hard. to do so puts pressure on leaders, openly threatens various states with destabilization, and is one of the consequences of the world giving the terrorist state too much time. unfortunately, evil knows how to adapt, now uses its resources to divide the world and not give to force russia to peace, but we already have almost 100 states and international organizations joining global efforts. mr. oleksiy, what have you already said, and what will be a success for ukraine in the finals of the global peace summit, what can be considered a success? this is very good. question, and it should have been asked before starting this whole story, in my opinion. well, that's why success for ukraine

is obviously what would be a success, and this is the participation of the key countries of the world at the highest level. conditionally speaking, if at the peace summit comes, the leader of china, the president of brazil, then the summit is successful, it is obvious that it demonstrates the complete isolation of russia, and then through these countries. to put pressure on russia through sanctions, through economic pressure, that's what could be done, and that's what could be achieved, but on the condition that these countries are not there, and you 're reading right here, there are 100 countries, that's very good , at what level, if it is 100 countries at the level of the president, prime minister, it is one thing, if at the level of some representative, deputy foreign minister messenger, that's absolutely. it's not another matter, so, well, as i said, from the very beginning

i have questions about this whole direction, i 'm afraid that we shouldn't expect much success there, and in general russia only understands force, so i repeat myself a much more important topic is that western troops appear in ukraine, well, not only western ones, but the military of the civilized world, the sooner they appear and in greater numbers, even if they do not go to the trenches to fight together with us, but although would train of the ukrainian military, at least, to carry out measures there, for example, cyber security, air defense, a police mission, for example, on the border with belarus, in areas where we are forced to keep troops, because we expect opportunities, possible russian attacks and provocations there, this would help us a lot. mr. oleksiy, you mentioned biden and the fact that his non-participation in this summit will obviously also shape the agenda of this summit and

the representation at this summit, obviously biden will not be there, he is entering election campaign, another participant of the potential election campaign donald trump, as written in the western press, allegedly said at a meeting there with some sponsors or people who will help him. on the campaign trail that he would have pissed off moscow if the russian federation invaded ukraine while he was in the oval office, and he said that if he came to power, he would seek to stop the war in one day, as far as the critical thing for ukraine now is the victory of one candidate or another candidate, i.e. should a drastic change of flight be expected. this is how united america is in the event of trump's victory and whether it is better to rely on or bet on

biden's victory and understand his predictability and what we have seen for at least the last two years. look, you should always try to influence what you can influence. we cannot influence elections in the united states of america, neither legally nor in reality, and we should not . therefore, it makes no sense to us. rely on one option or another, we we must be prepared for both possible scenarios, both a biden victory and a trump victory. this is the task that we have to set before ourselves. regarding, in general, i would also like to say, you said, biden will not be there in switzerland, well, this is not a fact yet, because in my data the final decision has not been made, i think that biden will be determined literally there in the last days, well, before the summit, because it will be important for him who will be there. that is, conditionally speaking, if xijin ping comes there, well, which i think will not happen, then there for sure

will be biden, and if he is not there, well, that's another story, and then who will be, and returning to the topic, who is better for us, biden or trump? no, here you can ska, well, once again, we do not influence it, so it will be as it will be, with biden we more or less understand what will happen, on the one hand there will be support, but on the other hand there will always be some red eyes in this support line, this is not possible in nato, not for'. please, here is the escalation, here is this one, already biden’s style, his team is obvious, obvious, their approaches to helping ukraine are obvious, the situation with trump maybe... it can happen with trump - it is completely unpredictable, the situation can be very bad, up to the point that support for ukraine will simply be stopped, up to super cool, when he will actually bomb moscow, by the way, i have also heard , saw this news in the media that trump said that, and i'm absolutely sure that he said that, it fits completely into

his, well, style, into his vision of the world and into what he says, and i ... communicate with some number of people who are close to his headquarters there, and i can say that it sounds like he is really confident that he will be able to stop this war in one day, how it will happen and whether we will like it is another story, well we don't know, but well , anything is possible with trump, and no one will tell you today that he will do, i think that even trump himself would not tell you now, he actually, i seriously think about ukraine-russia. he is not thinking about war today, he is thinking about his courts and elections, but if he becomes president, then he will decide this case. well, by the way, one more such event will be significant two months, already the july summit of the north atlantic alliance, and in the press, in the western press, they are writing about the fact that

zelenskyi was allegedly asked not to articulate during this summit the issue of ukraine's accession to nato, or not to insist... on this, as ms. the ambassador of the united states of america to nato, julian smith, the decision of the summit will contain new wording regarding ukraine's desire to become a member of nato, the decision will not be identical to what was heard last year, well, it is meant, in lithuania, the invitation of ukraine to membership is not will be considered this time, it is not realistic, while we will focus on providing a support package that will allow us to build a bridge to membership in the north atlantic. alliance, while jen stoltenberg, the secretary general of the alliance, at a meeting in prague, where agreements are being made before the july summit in washington, says that ukraine can win the war against russia only under the condition of constant strong support from nato, let's hear what stoltenberg said. ukraine continues

to bravely fight, but the challenges facing it are becoming greater and greater are growing ukraine can win everything. but only under the condition of constant strong support from nato allies. therefore, at the nato summit in july, we plan to put our support on a stronger footing, including a greater role for nato in coordinating security assistance and training, as well as in multi-year financial commitments. mr. oleksiy, how do you assess ukraine's prospects at the nato summit in july, and these statements by stoltenberg that ukraine can. to win, if ukraine can win, then they admit that ukraine may not to win mr. sergey, all options in the world are possible, and they are definitely considering all options, no matter how much we like it, but the world will definitely consider it. moreover, i will remind you that only the heroic resistance of the ukrainians in the first weeks of the invasion changed

the world's view of this. the world expected that ukraine would fall and already. i thought about what i would do after that, and it was ukraine that completely changed these approaches and schedule, so nothing has changed here, it is largely in our hands, we will demonstrate success, there will be one approach, we will not have a completely different one approach to nato, the key thing for us is to become a member of nato, without this, the only way, in my opinion, to ensure the long-term security of ukraine, is to return the nuclear status, develop nuclear ... weapons and put them into service, i just don't know the third way: membership in nato, or our own nuclear weapons, or we will have no security, as for me, and what happened during this invasion could happen again at any second, so this is a key issue for us, really us do not want to invite to nato at this summit, this

it is true, and this is the position primarily of the usa and germany, the key position is the usa, of course, but we have to fight to the end, we have to fight to the last, this is when i said, for example, about the peace summit, i doubt the effectiveness there we are making efforts towards it, but there is 0.1% of our chance, we have to fight for this 0.1%, because this is a key story, so fight, do not give up and achieve, they really say this word bridge, they that here... we will show what, like this bridge, which will connect ukraine with nato. it is necessary to achieve that it was the specifics. there are proposals specific to this group of rasmussen, for example, about forming there, for example. that ukraine will be invited no later than july 28th, this is a good option, that is, with some kind of fixation of at least something concrete, not just talk, not

just words, this is a super important task for us, well actually, here it is again, here it is simple there can be no extra effort, all, all, all, all efforts must be put into it, thank you, mr. oleksiy, for your inclusion, it was oleksiy goncharenko, people's deputy. friends of ukraine, we continue to work live on the tv channel, as well as on our youtube and facebook platforms. for those who are currently watching us live on these platforms. please subscribe to our pages and take part in our survey. today we ask you about the following: do you understand the reasons for a possible increase in electricity prices? yes no. everything is quite simple on youtube. if you watch us on tv, grab your expensive smartphone or phone and vote. if so, then 0800 211 381 n. 800-211-382. all calls to these numbers are free, vote, at the end of the program we will sum up the results of this vote. next, we will be in touch with viktor

yagun, major general of the sbu reserve, deputy head of the sbu in 2014-15. mr. general, good health to you, thank you for joining our broadcast. yes, good health. mr. general, let's start our conversation with the special operation about which. general budanov once spoke, which had the code name maidan-3, and this special operation, according to gur of the ministry of defense of ukraine, was supposed to begin after may 20, 2024. well, we see, in the principle that this maidan-3 special operation is played out by vladimir putin himself, because he regularly says that after may 20, zelensky is not the legitimate president of ukraine. in response to statements. putin that the only legitimate authority in ukraine is now the verkhovna rada, parliament speaker ruslan stefanchuk advised the russian dictator to read the ukrainian constitution more carefully, but noted that

among the deputies there are those who agree with putin's position, i will quote mr. stefanchuk. it is clear that there are russian narratives announced today as predictable as they are silly. the only thing that is disconcerting is that some ukrainian politicians are allegedly preparing the groundwork almost in the pubs of ukraine. they quote word for word the narratives expressed, in particular within the walls of the ukrainian parliament. at the same time , political scientist petro leshchuk believes that putin's public statements about zelensky's illegitimacy are directed at part of the ukrainian elites in the parliament and are a call to stage a coup d'état and seize power. to what extent do you think such a scenario is possible that putin, swaying the political elite or representatives of the ukrainian political elite can provoke some group of politicians to... commit a coup d'état? well, ukraine has no experience and no tradition of

coups d'état, military coups, we don't have that cohort of people who are ready to go, well , take responsibility and go out there, roughly speaking, only people can go on stage in our country , who see the pods. of the people, that is, roughly speaking, the tradition of the ukrainian people goes back centuries, and it is called the eternal right, the eternal right is when the people come out and nominate someone, but no there is not some group of partisans out there that can take over power, the situation is the same with the military, with the military it is much easier, yes there are problems, there are questions, but there are definitely not these... realities in the sense that someone can there, no know, to go out and wave checkers and what, and what further from the fact that legitimacy will appear, will not appear as any legitimacy, we now have a clearly, clearly

explained situation at the expense of the fact that our power continues, because according to the constitution is unrivaled, but the only thing there are nuances. as far as possible maybe it was necessary to turn to the constitutional court once and for all to ask this question once and for all, to discourage some people there from speculating, but at the same time , i just know personally, because i communicated, i was once an adviser to the chairman of the central election commission, i understand very clearly what elections are, presidential elections, verkhovna rada elections, and now they are talking about the fact that power can be transferred. in the verkhovna rada, and what will they say in the fall, when the term of the verkhovna rada ends, though the constitution clearly states that the verkhovna rada

loses its powers. after the election of the next verkhovna rada, that's all, that's why all these insinuations, they just don't have any pingunty with them, who are they counting on? well, yes, we have people who are trying to get the situation going somehow, well, they are definitely not even in the minority, they are just in some there, it ’s called the percentage of error, but tell me, mr. general, how probable is the scenario in which the russians again ... they will bring yanukovych somewhere to belarus, they will say, well he didn't complete a year and a half of his presidential term, as they say in moscow, as a result of a coup d'état, as they believe, he was removed from office, and they will say, well, here, in fact, the legitimate president of ukraine is still 200 years old 10 years, he did not reach this term, but with him we will talk about peace, we will sign some agreements and we will conduct some dialogue,

because here... for us, he is someone, and zelensky is a nobody. well, let them sign. they lost that opportunity in '14, in february '14 . the idea was very simple: a part of ukraine to break off from common ukraine, precisely what they called novorossia, and to create another ukraine on its territory, and from there to attack all of ukraine. and one of the elements of this special operation was yanukovych's letter, which was later used in his criminal proceedings regarding putin's invitation to deploy troops. that is, they roughly planned that the capital could be there, i don’t know, in donetsk, in kharkiv, and they announce that this is the capital of ukraine, everything else is captured by rebels, i don’t know, by collaborators there, and they, they need to be separatists, yes, they must be knocked out, and both in this and in... in this

context, the request of the ministry of foreign affairs of the russian federation to some of our neighboring countries regarding the possibility of introducing troops in order to take control of your lands, historically, was included in this context they kept silent about it, the slovaks kept silent, the hungarians kept silent, the romanians kept silent, and the poles said, we sharply rejected this proposal and said that it is... well, it is not only unacceptable, it is criminal, and only thanks to the poles we know that such proposals were presented to all countries, that is, this opportunity to split ukraine and seize a part of it and leave yanukovych as the head of this part, they lost, one of the versions of why they lost, is because they abandoned their idea of ​​taking crimea, well,

annexing crimea, because... yanukovych seemed to put says a demand, one of the demands, which he says, leave crimea in ukraine. they say, no, no, no, this is ours, our territory, and that’s it, everything collapsed on that, then they couldn’t do anything, they only had donetsk-luhansk under their control, and that’s it. the idea is over. and they tried to renew it in the 22nd year, when they said that kyiv was in 3 days. they didn't take kyiv, yanukovych wandered off somewhere in ... where he was in belarus, he was like that too, that 's the end of it, let them sign with whoever they want, by the way, i invite you, well, you remembered this story in the 14th year, at the same time, when yanukovych was fleeing from kyiv, he fled to kharkiv, and a congress of deputies of various levels was planned there, it was a remake of what happened in the fourth year, remember when in severo-donetsk conducted, and the same story was there, they

wanted to create... a pseudo-republic both then and in the 14th year, that is, to create something that already existed 100 years ago, once in ukraine, when from kharkiv, then they went to kyiv, the bolsheviks, that is, they wanted to repeat all this, or is there still such a threat of something similar, when part of some elites, part of some military, part of some intelligentsia will be part of... such and such a similar plan at some other point there will be no ukrainian land or anything like that see, in the 22nd year there was such a danger, and medvedchuk told about it during his interrogation in the special services, he revealed the secret that there was a group of old generals in ukraine who

had long been out of power. which were actually prepared.