to do after that, and it is ukraine that has completely changed these approaches and schedule, so nothing has changed here, it is largely in our hands, we will demonstrate success, there will be one approach, we will not, there will be a completely different approach, regarding nato, for us the key thing is - is to become a member of nato, without this, the only way, in my opinion, to ensure the long-term security of ukraine, is to return to the nuclear status, develop nuclear weapons and... put them into service, i simply do not know the third way: membership in nato, or nuclear own weapons, or we will not have security, as far as i'm concerned, and what happened during this invasion could happen again at any second, so this is a key issue for us, they really don't want to invite us to nato at this summit, that's true, and this is the position primarily of the usa and germany, the key position is, of course, the usa.

but we have to fight to the end, we have to fight to the last, this is when i said, for example, about the peace summit, i doubt the effectiveness of these efforts we put into it, but what is there, well, our chance is as much as 10%, we have to to fight for this 0.10%, because this is a key story, so fight not to give up and achieve, they really say this word bridge, they say that we will show how... what is this bridge that will connect ukraine with nato, it is necessary to make sure that it is specific, here are specific proposals of this rasmusan group, for example, that there, for example, form a date that ukraine will be invited no later than july 28th, this is a good option, that is, with some fixing at least something concrete, not just conversations, not just words, this is a super important task for us, well actually here... here again, there simply cannot

be too much effort, all, all, all, all efforts must be put into it. thank you, mr. oleksiy, for the inclusion, it was oleksiy goncharenko, people's deputy of ukraine. friends, we continue to work live on the espresso tv channel, as well as on our youtube and facebook platforms. for those who are currently watching us live on these platforms, please subscribe to our pages and also take part in our survey. today we ask you about whether you understand the reasons for a possible increase. electricity prices, yes, no, everything is quite simple on youtube, if you watch us on tv, take your smartphone or phone and vote, if yes, then 0800-211-381, no, 0800-211-382, all calls to these numbers are free, vote, at the end of the program we will sum up the time, deputy head of the sbu in 2014-15, mr. general, good health to you, thank you for joining our broadcast, yes good. mr.

general, let's start our conversation with the special operation that general budanov once talked about, which had the code name maidan 3, and this the special operation, according to gur of the ministry of defense of ukraine, was supposed to start after may 20, 2024, well, we see in principle that this special operation maidan-3 is played out by vladimir putin himself, because he regularly says that after... may 20, zelenskyi is not the legitimate president of ukraine, in response to putin's statements that the only legitimate power in ukraine is now the verkhovna rada, parliament speaker ruslan stefanchuk advised the russian dictator to read the ukrainian constitution more carefully, but noted that among the deputies there are those who agree with putin's position, i will quote mr. stefanchuk. it is clear that the russian narratives promulgated today are as predictable as they are absurd. the only thing that is disconcerting is that individual

ukrainian politicians in the ukrainian pubs are allegedly preparing the basis, almost word for word, quoting the narratives expressed, in particular , within the walls of the ukrainian parliament. at the same time , political scientist petro leshchuk believes that putin's public statements about the illegitimacy of zelensky are directed at part of the ukrainian elites in the parliament and are a call to stage a coup d'état and seize power. as for yours do you think such a scenario is possible, that putin , by swaying the political... elite or representatives of the ukrainian political elite , can provoke some group of politicians to commit a coup d'état? well, ukraine has no experience and no tradition of coups d'état, military coups, we don't have that cohort of people who are ready to go, well , take responsibility and go out there, roughly speaking.

only people who can see the support of the people, that is, roughly speaking, the tradition of the ukrainian people, can go on stage here. reaches centuries, and it is called a perpetual right. the eternal right is when the people come out and nominate someone, but not some group of boyars who can take power for themselves. the situation is the same with the military, with the military it is much easier, yes there are problems, there are questions, but there are definitely no such realities in the sense that someone can, i don't know, go out and wave checkers , and what, and what next? from the fact that legitimacy will appear, will not appear as any legitimacy, we now have a clearly, clearly explained situation, at the expense of the fact that the power in us continues, because according to of the constitution, it is unparalleled, but the only thing that

is there are nuances in the sense that it is possible, perhaps, it was necessary to turn to the constitutional court at some point. to ask this question once and for all, to discourage some people there from speculating, but at the same time , i just know personally, because i talked, i was once an adviser to the chairman of the central election commission, i understand very clearly what elections are, presidential elections , elections to the verkhovna rada, they are now talking about the fact that power can be transferred to the verkhovna rada, and what will they say in the fall, when the term of the supreme... soviet ends, although the constitution clearly states that the verkhovna rada loses its powers after the election of the next verkhovna rada, that's all, that's why all the priceless money, they just don't have any pingunty with them , for whom they are designed, well, yes, we have people who are trying to somehow

shake up the situation there, well, they are definitely not even in the minority, they are just somewhere there, it's called the percentage of error, huh? tell me, mr. general, how likely it is scenario, according to which the russians will bring yanukovych back somewhere to belarus, they will say, well , he didn't finish a year and a half of his presidential term, as they say in moscow, as a result of a coup d'état, as they believe, he was removed from office, and and they will say, well, in fact , the legitimate president of ukraine is still out of 200 there in 10 years, he did not win all of them. with him, we will talk about peace, we will sign some agreements and we will conduct some dialogue, because yanukovych is someone for us, and zelensky is a nobody, well, let them sign, they have lost this the opportunity in the 14th year, in february of the 14th year, the idea was very simple,

to split off a part of ukraine from the general ukraine, precisely what they called novorossia, and to create another ukraine on its territory, and already from you... to invade all of ukraine, and one of the elements of this special operation was yanukovych's letter, which was later used in his criminal proceedings regarding putin's invitation to send in troops. that is, they, they roughly planned that the capital could be there, i don't know, in donetsk, in kharkiv, and they announce that this, the capital of ukraine, all the rest captured by the rebels, i don't know, collaborators there. the request of the ministry of foreign affairs of the russian federation to some countries of our neighbors regarding the possibility of introducing troops in order to take

control of your historical lands, they were silent about it, the slovaks were silent, the hungarians were silent, they were silent. and the poles said, we sharply rejected this proposal and said that it is not only unacceptable, it is criminal, and it is only thanks to the poles that we know that such proposals were presented to all countries, that is, this possibility of division ukraine and seize part of it and leave yanukovych as the leader of this part, they lost, one of the versions why they lost, because they... abandoned their idea to take crimea, well, to annex crimea, because yanukovych put there, he says, a demand from the demands that he says, leave crimea in ukraine, they say, no, no, no, this is ours, our territory, and that’s it, everything collapsed on that, then they

couldn’t do anything, only donetsk-luhansk remained under their control control, and that was the end of the whole idea, and they hers they tried to renew it in the 22nd year, when they said: that kyiv was in three days, they did not take kyiv, yanukovych wandered off somewhere, where he was there in belarus, he was also there, and everything ended there. let them sign with whoever they want, by the way, let me invite them if they want, but you mentioned this story in 14, at the same time, when yanukovych fled from kyiv, he fled to kharkiv , and a congress of deputies of various levels was planned there, this this was a remake of what happened in the fourth year, remember when it was held in north donetsk, and the same story was, they wanted to create a pseudo -republic both then and in the 14th year, i.e. to create... that is, what was already 100 years ago, once in ukraine, when under kharkiv, then the bolsheviks went to kyiv, i.e. they

wanted to repeat all this, or is there still such a threat, well, something like that, when part of some elites, part of some military, part of some intelligentsia, they will be part of such and such a similar plan in some other point there... some land or will there be no such thing? look, in the 22nd year e there was such a danger, and medvedchuk told her about it during his interrogation in the special services, he revealed the secret that in ukraine there was a group of old generals who had long been out of power, who were actually preparing, well, i don't know how to announce themselves there. by some kind of rescue committee there, i don’t know how it is, well , it’s roughly the same story as it was

when, uh, nazi germany entered france and its part of the old generals assumed responsibility, allegedly , and there they announced that here we are we sign the surrender agreement with nazi germany of france france was divided into two parts. that's it. russia was preparing such an option for ukraine, and certain circles of old generals were ready to go for this cooperation. fortunately, nothing happened, not to them, not to the russians. and the only thing that i regret is that this information remained in the materials of the investigation, not even the investigation, but the materials of such operatives. and she didn't get her share, well, her share of attention, because i would like

to look into the eyes of those monsters who were going to divide ukraine and take over the functions of the junta. thank you, mr. general, there is another important question regarding russian information and psychological special operations, they relate in particular to the situation on the belarusian-ukrainian border, because, as reported by the center on... disinformation activities at the nsdc, russia is trying to convince ukrainians of the possibility of opening a new front from belarus, how likely is such a scenario? he is absolutely incredible, it is fantastic, while lukashenka is in power, you can not expect an attack from that side, not because lukashenko is so gentle towards ukraine, but because it is easy for him it is economically unprofitable, roughly speaking, he understands that... belarus is at war, he can send no more than 50,000 troops, plus

50,000 of some security forces that may be there in the second or third echelon, 100,000 is nothing , it is a possibility there, i don't know, the capture of one populated place there or one ukrainian district, but these are so huge losses and safe for him, it is possible. the possibility already now on the part of ukraine to kill their enterprises of the oil refining complex in the first place, this is also the possibility of the entry of our belarusian comrades-in-arms on the territory of belarus and start a guerrilla war in their rear, and this destabilizes the situation in belarus itself, when the brutes will go there, it is not russia that accepts any number, it is belarus, it is mentally closer to ukraine and... they ask, he says: why are we fighting with ukraine and why do we have these graves in our villages. therefore

, lukashenko understands all this very well, and he will drag it out until the end. the last thing he did in the face of all the efforts to persuade him to participate in the war, he allowed a recruiting company on the territory of belarus for former military personnel who served in the armed forces or in... the army, recruiting in the armed forces of the russian federation, and he allowed it, he is the one , the recruiting is actually open, there are both e and memorized official not. informally, but official belarusian forces are involved, that is, this is the only thing he agreed to now, everything else is a fantasy, there are no forces, means, or opportunities. mr. general, last week in the verkhovna rada, some of the deputies who members of european solidarity and

voice, insisted that the verkhovna rada of ukraine adopt the bill on actions in the second reading. presence of the moscow church in ukraine, as mykola knyazhytskyi, one of the initiators of the ban on the russian orthodox church in ukraine in filia, says that there is an influential group of sympathizers of the russian church in the parliament, and they are doing everything to prevent this bill from being passed. let's listen to what knyazhytsky said. the law does not in any way limit the freedom of religion, it only requires breaking ties with a church that calls everyone. to destroy us and declared a holy war on us, because of that it is no longer a church, but just such a satanic, putin sect, and the only law i propose is to simply break these ties, then they will be able to serve absolutely peacefully, but they are strong, and the fact that the law is not passed, it shows that within the ukrainian society, if on our borders, within our ukrainian society, there are politicians

who let them in, open the door for them and do not let them walk out the door, and these politicians do not allow it to be put to a vote , because in factions... the majority in the leadership of the majority faction are afraid of splitting the faction, because some people, as i have already said, are patriotic, want to vote for it, some do not want to, and they are trying to delay the consideration of this bill as much as possible. mr. general, over the past two years, we have repeatedly talked with you on the air about the need to limit the activities of the roc branch, and this draft law has been pending for six months after the first reading. a few months, half a year ago, he was voted out, in your opinion, what can he do to move in this history with the existence of this church, or the reformatting of this church, or, let's say, a proposal to those who are in charge to join other churches there in order to protect ukraine from the influence of the russian

orthodox church on the ukrainian orthodox church of the moscow patriarchate. i think several. moments, the first moment, what concerns the verkhovna rada is exclusively publicity, i.e. we just need to start collecting signatures regarding the introduction of this draft law for the second reading, and when is it every day or that there will be a publication every week of the names of those who signed this, and 150 votes are needed there, i think that if the signatories are signed and there are those who... refused to write and so on, he says, this one refused, this one signed, this one avoided signing, and it will be about the same situation as it once was before the possibility of johnson's resignation in the united states senate, you know, when publicity gave its driving force, it concerns the verkhovna rada,

only this way, then we will clearly know who is on the side light, who is on the dark side. although we already know the names of those deputies, and as for society, here i think that unity is not needed, it already is, society is disturbed by those things that are happening in, connected with this activity of this pseudo-religious sect, that they create, how, how they behave, and you know, it must be clear that a reaction from the authorities is needed, and it must be enough. as strict, as approximately, as, for example, in the baltic countries, where they clearly said, pointed out the places of this church, the only thing that is necessary, really, i agree with the nuances of the law, it is not possible to enter all believers there, this concerns primarily the clergy, who

are actually in the agent apparatus of the fsb of the russian federation. and he is forced or wants to do or does with joy what they tell him, and it must be borne in mind that if we take careless steps, our enemies will take advantage of this and will also rebuke him, and show him that, look persecution of the orthodox, persecution of christians, as it was in the states, there lobby structures spread lies, that's why everything... i must say clearly, no, no persecution of believers, but simply a ban on the activities of church structures that are associated with the aggressor country. thank you sir. generals, thank you for the conversation, it was viktor yagun, a general of the security service of ukraine in the reserve. friends, we continue our conversation live, and we continue our program and not only

live on the espresso tv channel, but also on our youtube and facebook platforms. for those who are currently watching us live on these platforms, please subscribe to our pages and also participate in our poll. today we ask you about whether you understand the reasons for a possible increase in electricity prices. energy, yes, no, everything is quite simple on youtube, yes, no, or your own opinion, please write in the comments under this video, if you watch us on tv, pick up your smartphone or phone and vote if you understand the reasons of a possible increase in electricity prices 0.80021381, no 08021 382, ​​all calls to these numbers are free, vote at the end of the program, we will sum up the results of this vote, volodymyr will be in touch later. political analyst, people's deputy of ukraine of the fourth convocation. mr. volodymyr, i congratulate you, thank you for joining our conversation. congratulations, glory to ukraine. glory to heroes.

let's start our conversation, mr. volodymyr, with this topic, which is already unfolding literally before our eyes, the permission of our western partners to strike the ukrainian army on the territory of the russian federation, as the new york times writes, the president of the united states of america. joe biden is getting closer to changing his position, to allow ukraine to strike russian territory american weapons. at the same time, according to anthony blinken, secretary of state of the united states of america, the biden administration can tolerate strikes by the ukrainian military on russian territory, as washington will adapt and adjust its position depending on the situation on the battlefield . let's hear what blinken said. we have not encouraged or permitted strikes outside of ukraine, but ukraine must make its own decisions about the best way

to protect itself effectively, and we will make sure that it has necessary means for this. our support to ukraine over the last two years has been adapting to changing conditions, the battlefields are changing, as what russia is doing has changed in terms of how it conducts itself. we have also adapted and adapted and i am sure we will continue to do so. mr. volodymyr, what are our western partners afraid of, avoiding direct, direct permission for ukrainians to strike on russian territory? they are afraid of reality. and the reality is that when russia started using iranian weapons against ukraine shaheda drones, and ... then north korean munitions, including ballistic missiles, this means that the war has entered a completely different stage, and any

restrictions on the defense capabilities of ukraine must be removed, because russia itself has internationalized this conflict, this war , and in fact the western world must understand once and for all that russia, in addition to the language of power, is another. does not understand the language. to date, 13 countries have already allowed ukraine to use their weapons against russia, these are france, lithuania, latvia, estonia, sweden, finland, denmark, norway, poland, czech republic, great britain, canada and the netherlands. the minister of foreign affairs, melanie joly, is a canadian minister, she says that ukraine can strike at the territory of russia with weapons that are produced. which was transmitted, or rather canada, let's listen to what she said. we believe that in this matter it is necessary to be ahead, because there are no red

lines in russia. we must be sure that when it comes to the defense of ukraine, we are ready to help them and show that, despite everything, we are there to their side. canada does not have any conditions for supplying weapons to ukraine, so we will continue to work with the armed forces of ukraine. mr. volodymyr, how will these permits change the nature of the russian-ukrainian war, and will they give an advantage to the ukrainians under the current conditions, taking into account the fact that our western partners have sufficiently serious, serious weapons that will allow them to strike 300-400 km deep into the russian federation. the main problem of ukrainian troops was, first of all, strikes from russian territory. federation for peace ukrainian cities, and kharkiv is a particularly tragic story and the sum is no less tragic, therefore, first of all, an adequate

answer must be given. because of the task of striking from the territory of belgorod region or kursk region or oryol region or voronezh region or from rostov region, we need to strike these territories, we will not achieve this with ukrainian drones alone, especially since the russians are safely accumulating huge forces on the border with ukraine, and we have very often there are not... enough means to reach their centers of concentration of technology, manpower. most importantly, now it is important to break such long-distance logistics, which reaches more than 100 km, and this will essentially collapse the russian front, since the shoulder of the delivery of ammunition will be too large, the most important thing is that we need resources that would...

knock down railway junctions on the territory of russia in regions adjacent to ukraine, to that, to this decision, which should be made by washington as well, because it is our main partner in the russian-ukrainian war, and it is clear that a lot will depend on biden's decision, on the biden administration, including number of for our other partners, who are part of the conditional remshtein group, which helps ukraine, until until that moment. putin is trying to take advantage of the situation and still disperse this topic of the special operation under the conditional name of maidan 3, which general budan once spoke about, that is, putin himself begins to talk and pedal the topic of zelenskyi’s illegitimacy, begins to destabilize the situation inside ukraine, tries to destabilize it, that’s why on your part opinion they need now this topic to

convince on... our partners on the global peace summit that they are sitting for table with an illegitimate president in order to strike at zelensky and say: listen, he is not a legitimate president, so in principle we can use our weapons, hit the president's office there, or another story, or zelensky is an illegitimate president, so there is no one to talk to at all and let's pull out the legit ones. yanukovych, who did not last a year and a half in the presidential chair, what do you think is putin's goal? well, firstly, putin is not, not an elected leader, he is not the leader of the country, he is a usurper, secondly, zelensky, illegitimate from putin's point of view only because putin does not give, because of his aggression due to the war, does not give ukrainians the opportunity to hold elections, but ukrainians

remember very well. well, they understand cause-and-effect relationships, it's not up to putin to assess zelensky's legitimacy, first of all it's up to ukrainians to assess this legitimacy. ukrainians still understand that there are contradictions in the constitution, but to wage another war during the war, because i want to remind you, after all , elections are a small war, and in this sense , we do not need an additional shock during the war it is necessary, but... but i am surprised why zelensky has not taken the counter- steps that society needs during this time, it means a coalition government, it means, well, maybe even a government of national salvation, as petro poroshenko called it, because in we have already been sat down by the parliament, although there is clearly no

legislative conflict in the parliament, but... there is indeed a conflict around the president, but objective reasons, i.e. the war, do not give the opportunity to hold elections, but zelenskyi still needs to come to his senses and stop in his usurpation, at least to unlock more or less freedom of speech, which partners, in particular, the ambassadors of the big seven , have been grumbling to zelensky for the third year now, to return her... is no longer perceived, people have turned away from him, with such expenses for a marathon, the effect of his activity is zero. you are talking about the threats that he...