during the war, the actions of the martial law and the parliament will pass such a law, and the national security council will then make appropriate decisions, and ukrainian law enforcement agencies, including the sbu and the national police, will restore order. delaying such a decision, what threatens ukraine? the existence of ukraine on the kona is nothing less important than the atakamse and hymers, it is meant to protect our territories, it is to remove from the middle of... the service of russia, and i repeat, regardless of whether they are in cassocks or without cassocks, this the existence of the country as such, moreover, after the victory, already in peacetime , the number one issue will return for us, this is still the only local church in ukraine, this, you know, this national interest has not gone anywhere, moreover, for centuries before us, ukrainians have suffered from this issue, and after the ukrainian victory, this issue will be decided once and for all by the ukrainian people, it will be... well

, the absence of such a political decision, because this political decision must be made, because someone says that our western partners will say that we have problems with religion and we have no problems with russian rockets hit ukrainian churches of all religions except one, and of different faiths, the only problem is who has, who should make such a political decision in your opinion in ukraine, so that this church does not exist. we are ready to take on this responsibility in the parliament, we need to vote. in the parliament, do not avoid, you know, if someone starts again, but no, someone else will make a decision for us or for him or for me, no, the time is now, who are you, this vote will show everything to everyone, moreover, we will make it public list all deputies, who voted for, who did not, the moment of truth, the moment of truth, the war is someone else's, you know, like at the front, well, for our defender, the enemy is in front of you, if you did not destroy him, he is you, and so it is with us in ukraine the same is true now in these matters, which concern the ukrainian church, if this church. will not

exist, what will the federal security service lose? he will lose a huge, firstly, agency, and secondly, influence on the informational, cultural, and religious space of ukraine. moreover, well, they lost their positions in power, i think, since the time of yushchenko as president, but since the time of yanukovych in power, they have returned their positions, the same as pavlo, or whoever there is, the so-called superior, it is clear that all contacts in power were through him. yanukovych, you just mentioned that i was in charge of the sbu twice, and both times when i came, we simply cut him off and all his contacts, but in order not to deal with this, you know, some were cut off, others were restored, the moments of truth during war to restore order. thank you, mr. valentin, for the conversation, it was valentin nalivachenko, the former head of the service of security of ukraine, and now people's deputy of ukraine. friends, we continue live on the tv channel, as well as on our youtube and facebook platforms, if you ... are not subscribed

to our pages, please subscribe right now, and take part in our survey, we are conducting a survey today, which reads as follows: is political censorship justified in the media during the war. let's look at the interim results of the poll, the television poll that we are conducting: 9% yes, 91% no. hello, this is svoboda ranok, informative radio liberty project. top guests every day. this is the shipping district, kherson. turn on live. we are somewhere in the vicinity of bakhmut. we tell the main thing. on weekdays at 9:00. congratulations, friends, live on the tv channel. the second part of the program. verdict, my name is serhii

rudenko, and in this part we will talk about the following. northern europe for ukraine. zelensky signed security agreements with sweden, norway and iceland. what long-term support do the northern partners promise? maidan 3 is in an active phase. putin and lavrov personally trying to run a destabilization script. ukraine, is there a threat of expansion of the russian special operation? censorship in ukrinform, the former general director of the main information agency of the country put pressure on journalists, who in power is involved in the revival of the infamous dark circles? we will talk about this and other things in the next 45 minutes with my soon-to-be colleagues. in touch, therefore, but

before we begin our conversation, i suggest you take part in our survey that we are conducting today, we ask you the following whether political censorship is justified in the media during yes, no, everything is quite simple on youtube, subscribe to our youtube and vote, it is important for us to know your opinion, if you watch us on tv, pick up your smartphone or phone and vote if you think that political censorship in ukraine is justified during the media war 0800 211 381 no, 0800 211 382, ​​all calls to these numbers are free, vote on... at the end of the program we will sum up this vote. so, today is friday and traditional journalism club, my colleagues, andriy yanitsky, journalist, andriyya, i congratulate you. congratulations. and yanina sokolova, journalist, tv presenter, social activist and blogger.

yanino i welcome you, thank you for joining our conversation. greetings to serhiy, greetings to andria, greetings to all viewers of espresso. let's start with a quick poll. we ask our viewers what they think. political censorship in the press during the war, whether it is justified or not, let's exchange opinions, yanina, let's start with you, censorship in the soviet union is not justified under any circumstances, we we know what the authoritarian regimes of countries end up with in relation to zmi, and we already have examples within our country, regimes that suppressed journalists, freedom of speech and generally tried in every way to usurp... power over zmi. in fact, despite the fact that now there is a war in the country, and we supposedly have to focus all our attention on the defense sector, on the army, on volunteer movements, on the issue of mobilization. certainly, for journalists, for all of us, what is currently happening with the media in ukraine is, well, just

violence. this was not the case for a very long time, and in the past yanukovych, when we fought for freedom of speech, it seemed that we passed this stage. the revolution of dignity is quite strong. cemented the issue of freedom of speech and the right to freedom of speech in zmi. no. the television marathon, in which there is neither espresso, nor the fifth channel, nor a direct channel, now a public one, is the story of the completely politically motivated pressure of the authorities on the media, including the private media, which are now subordinate. but the scandal that happened with ukrinform, i think, has become a litmus test. in general, everything concerns the relations between the authorities and journalists, and serhiy, before i joined you, information about yuriy strygun appeared, friends, who does not know who yuriy strygun is, he is the journalist who confirmed the fact of the sending of dark men, the so -called darkrooms, i will tell our viewers who

do not know what it is, it is when the government, or the management of certain private tv channels, cooperating there with the authorities, sends a list of prohibited topics of prohibited persons, even in this list of darkrooms there was also civil society, veterans movements, dissatisfied people from the side of civil society on the issue of reconstruction, on the issue of various rallies and everything else related to discontent in the regions, you see on your screens speakers, unwanted speakers, speakers, the first are those whom the authorities recommend, and the others. invite yourself to the air, and ukrinform means correspondents who record various comments with them that you see on the air, unwanted speakers are those who categorically cannot be invited to comment on certain topics that are uncomfortable for the authorities . so, he came back

to what i started with, just a few hours ago, information appeared that, friends, by an amazing coincidence, after the journalist yurii... strygun confirmed the fact of the distribution of temniks in ukrinform. today , he was brought a summons directly to the kyiv office of ukrinform. the summons came, so you understand, to kyiv, all the way from the stalniv tcc. and not only that, according to the journalist, the new head of ukrinform, serhiy cherevaty, issued a separate written order and obliged strygun to appear at the tsc and report to him about the results. this journalist is 57 years old. he never fought, this case can become, well, actually a bad precedent that will force journalists to practice self-censorship, what is self-censorship, it is when a person will censor himself in the release of this or that information, taking into account how the authorities will react to it, well

that is, in fact, russia is number two in terms of freedom of speech in ukraine, well , a journalist of any kind, if possible, if possible , we will continue a little on this topic, a little later, i mean expand on this topic, that andriy had time to say, i had time to say, there can be no censorship during the war. in conclusion, during war we the people have to tell the truth, no matter how uncomfortable it may be, and the fact that the authorities suppress this whole process is a very, very bad bell, not only for the middle of the country, friends, but also for our western partners, g7 europeans who meet journalists and learn about it from journalists, thank you, andriy, we have an example of dark people again, i don't know, i've experienced it myself and seen it, how it is introduced in the 2000s, when medvedchuk was the head of president kuchma's administration,

and this whole story was brought from the russian federation by technologists. again, this is the story with the prisoners, this scandal broke out in ukrinform again, as yenina already told about the journalist who received a summons because he told about it publicly to the public. i know that you have been the head of a journalistic trade union organization for a long time, and obviously you know, not, let's say, in detail some of the stories, how different authorities put pressure on journalists, what is happening now, does it go beyond what usually happened? well, of course, i feel a kind of déjà vu, because there really was a powerful journalistic union, precisely during yanukovych's time they resisted, resisted all these attempts to influence the journalistic community, and i remember how entire editorial offices were dismissed, well, let's remember, for example , the forbes business publication, which was forced to go out of business completely, after

yanukovych's wallet, kurchenko, bought the entire ukrainian media holding, and which included forbes, but with i can say positively that most of those people who then acted decently and resigned, today they are all in quite high positions in the journalistic corporation, that is... reputation for a journalist is important, that is why journalists do not remain silent and then later they occupy well honorable places in other editorial offices, become editors-in-chief, become respected columnists, as for censorship directly, you correctly formulated the question for the survey about political censorship, because of course in wartime there can be restrictions, for example, to film military objects, military censorship, censorship and, it is justified, it is also a limitation, it is also uncharacteristic of peacetime,

but here she is rational and understood that if we show the movement of our troops, for example, then a missile will fly over them, if we shoot the missile strike immediately after and the effects of the missile strike immediately after the arrival, then the russians can re-hit the same place to do more damage and kill the volunteers and... the rescue workers who came to the scene, so there is a time lag, which, to things, here the journalists agreed, thanks to, well , self-regulation, no one ordered them to do it, they agreed with the authorities that they would wait 3 hours after the arrival, and not make the information publicly available before, and espressa does the same, so military censorship is justified , but political censorship, and what's more, there were already issues that did not directly concern... politics, there were purely social issues, ah, not to show people who have not been

given water for several days, there is no water supply, do not show veterans, participants in hostilities, who did not receive legal remuneration, social compensation, yes social benefits, but people do not receive social benefits, they cannot complain to the media, at least to ukrainform and okrenform, it cannot but cover this, it is not a political issue, it is not a question of flying ... opponents, that is , restrictions were introduced even for such issues, and to the credit of ukrinform journalists, they mostly ignored these whims of the new leadership, and that is why we witnessed the whole story, because the journalists they did not remain silent and told other colleagues about it, well, the head of the komi serhiu is not silent either, i will add a few words, which is important, we have a precedent with ukrainform, but you do. do you understand why i mentioned the television marathon, i think, sergey, you, and you, andriy, and our

colleagues, other journalists, have acquaintances who work within the framework of the television marathon, and believe me, i talked about this topic with them, there are the same dungeons and a number of guests who cannot be invited, we even discussed the topic of this or that guest there, who would be interested to be shown to a large audience, after conversations with the editors of the tv channels, these guests were not shown, because they might say something that... would play into the hands of the authorities, which is why i mentioned the television marathon and the option, in principle, of absolutely political censorship, which exists in on a large, large scale on television. yanina, and conversely, i want to say that the authorities have blacklists of tv channels that they invite to interviews with the president, heads of ministries, and ministers, and to whom they give interviews and to whom they do not, and of course in these blacklists television channels that are not in the marathon, they

are not there either, that is, we are limited in our access to objective information, if the president wants to say something... something to the press and say, here is really a matter of national security on this topic, let's be very careful , here is the exchange of prisoners, let's not interrupt him, or any other important information he wants to convey to the press, he conveys it first of all only to those media in which he is confident that they will do what the president's office wants . well, it should be said that here we are we face the fact that we invite representatives of the authorities to the channel, that is, we do not have black lists and... on the contrary, we want to make these lists white for everyone, and we tell them: listen, please come to prime time, come to rudenko , or until portnikov, or before september, or before winter, please, we will listen, we will talk with you, we need a balance of opinions, because we want the representatives of the authorities to answer certain questions, and we have a problem, because they

they don't want to come to us, because, well, yanina, you probably have the same questions on the fifth channel, well, that is... it is practically impossible to get them on the air, because they don't want to, they are afraid, because they will probably be burned there, but returning to the ukrinforum, the head of the verkhovna rada committee on freedom of speech, yaroslav yurchyshyn, has already written a request to the prosecutor general's office regarding the situation in ukrinform, according to him, the introduction of such prisons is a very dangerous signal from the authorities, let's listen to what yaroslav yurchyshyn said, the facts described in the ukrainian truth may... indicate that there were attempts to introduce political censorship in a specific, actual news agency, on the positive side, the journalists did not give in to this, if any , pressure, so as a result , the management of this media center itself has to be changed,

that is, the attempt itself was unsuccessful, but from the point of view of the attempt... of the authorities to introduce, even locally, some censored approaches, well, this is a very dangerous bell. yanina, this story with ukrenform shows that ukraine has problems with freedom of speech and, accordingly, problems with democracy. as in the conditions of war and the immutability of power until ending the war, preserving democracy in ukraine? do not be silent, the fact that we are doing this on the air now means that we are expressing our position and disagreement with the tools that the authorities use to limit freedom of speech, and the more such tools there are, and i think you all noticed that as only journalists do investigations, or we talk on the air about manifestations of injustice in relation to veterans,

to their families, it immediately becomes a matter of concern and the issues are resolved by... quickly, we have a story with vitaly there shumei, who was offered in the state in which he is now, you have probably heard this story, to come, undergo vlk, a person with half of his skull missing travels to different countries of the world, is treated, he was offered with his father vlk to come, go through in order to receive help , this is for you to understand the processes that are taking place in the country, was it on the air of a television marathon, no, it was on the air of our youtube channel, after which on... the next day, all the representatives of the vlk came and made it a vlk right on the spot in a hospital in the lviv region, this here is a small example of how our profession, the government, works, you understand what the big problem is, it is the culture of the government, or rather, the lack of attitude towards journalists and information, they think that all of us, and i, and

you, and those journalists, who at least have the opportunity to criticize that we are their opponents. or that we work for someone, or i don't know, poroshenko, or for russian epso, i 've also heard this about myself, as soon as i criticize, they don't understand that journalists are controllers of the government, we are a priori, not that against authorities, we have doubt, critical thinking and highlight problems in order for them to solve them, as a hint, they understand it as a personal insult, and this culture must be changed, it must be reported to the president and the office. president yermak, who actually manages many processes in ukraine, far away from the rest of these advisers in the office of the president, that we tell you what is wrong. and you draw conclusions and change the country, you are hired managers, we elected you democratically, this is the story all over the world, in the entire democratic world, and about the european union, which we so want

to join, this is also one of the provisions, i wrote a post even on this topic, i don't know if you have read that from time to time various embassies, representatives of embassies arrange meetings, closed by journalists, where we discuss, but i go from time to time to these meetings, we discuss precisely the issue of freedom of speech and... authorities and the attitude of the authorities to journalists, this is a key factor for joining the european union, if we want to be there, we must ensure that there is honest free journalism in the country, and not subordinated to the authorities, absolutely everyone, and precisely censorship, which will now be granted part of those who work for zmi, not independent, subordinated to either marathon or the state, thank you, thank you, yanina, well, to complete this block. andrii, what should the media community do so that the authorities finally start speaking in a normal human language, well, they are not some people from there, well

, we were all born in the soviet union, most of you who probably work on television, except for yanina, but look, i was also born in the soviet union, i still hoped that it was not in the soviet union, and in this story, well, that is. where is this from people, i understand where it came from in kuchma, i understand where it came from in kravchuk there, or is this the desire to turn journalists into some tame ones there and make this media space the way it is wanted, and not the way it is made up, like - how to convey this information to them, well, first of all, we remember the investigation of our colleagues bigus about what kind of monitors are brought to the president in paps, and in these monitors. reality is already distorted, that is, all the criticism that is there, it is presented and positioned as some really ipso or plots of political

opponents, everything is good, of course the president's team did it, that is, he does not receive objective feedback from the media, and it is clear that he is a very busy person, he does not have time to watch different tv channels, and he relies on these. analytical reports, the person who controls these analytical reports, he controls the president, in fact, a person who has access to the body can go into the office of the president, he actually influences his worldview and can manipulate him, and who among us has access to the president , quite a few people, we know that the head of the office, well, there may be three, four, five people who can go to the president not with a report on their work, but with some kind of proposal, advice. and to propose something and dare to criticize, and secondly, we thought that the president came from such a media

structure, he worked with a tv channel, but still, the specifics of the work of a tv show producer and the specifics of a journalist's work are a little different, a tv show producer works according to a script , he has a script, and the actors who leave the stage to play this script in... they are from they do not deviate from this scenario, and perhaps, well , this is my hypothesis, the president’s mind has formed such that, apparently, journalists also work according to scenarios, someone writes them that scenario, they go out and express not their own analytical conclusions, not their own point of view, not they show their own expertise, but simply play a role that some secret cardinal wrote for them in advance, and here they tried... to do this 95th quarter in ukrinform, nothing worked, because journalists are not actors, they will not play for by someone's rules.

thank you andrei, colleagues, i will remind our viewers that today we are asking our tv viewers and viewers on youtube whether in their opinion political censorship is justified in the army during the war, yes, no, when voting on youtube, everything is quite simple, or function yes or no. if you watch us on tv, pick up your smartphone or phone and vote if you think political censorship is in the air and is not justified (0800-211-381) or 0800-211-382, all calls to these numbers are free, vote, we will match at the end of the program of this, the results of this vote. maidan 3, this special operation that was once announced by general budanov, seems to have started and began with the staging of this special operation. operations by putin and lavrov, because for the past few weeks they have only been talking about the illegitimacy of zelensky. note that no one in ukraine questions the legitimacy of zelenskyi, we are at war.

one president, the only one, and he will be until the next election is held, and the election will be held when there is victory, and then the people will make the right choice and elect himself a president. lavrov, whom i have already mentioned, he once again expressed doubts about the legitimacy of zelenskyi, referring to the recent statement of the dictator putin, who called the verkhovna rada the only legitimate authority in ukraine, to quote lavrov, regarding the legal status of zelenskyi after may 20, when ... ended the term of his powers as president, the president of russia putin spoke quite clearly about this at a press conference in minsk on may 24, let's hope that sooner or later political forces will appear in ukraine that care the interests of the people. it is clear that russia is trying to delegitimize zelensky, and here the question is probably how ukraine is now,

why it is not doing its best. in order to delegitimize putin, because putin is, well, let's say this, more illegitimate than zelenskyi, because zelenskyi was elected in democratic elections, his powers were simply prolonged due to martial law, and putin was elected on the territory that is temporarily occupied by russia in the ukrainian territory, and this is already a reason to talk about putin's illegitimacy. yanina, why all our resources propagandist, if they exist, i think so, it is freedom, probably also... part of the state resources, the same telethon, why do we not constantly hear this thesis that this is the self-proclaimed president of russia, at least within ukraine, within the state, in order for a part of the people who watch the telethon in ukraine, a small part of them, but still scrolling constantly in their minds, so that no one even has the idea that this is a legitimate president, he should be called a president in general, it seems to me,

they... don't understand the mechanisms, and that's it you can see even from the television marathon, the mechanisms of people's empathy for this or that process and the process of remembering purely instinctively things that are really important, they do not condemn it, because the focus is political on maintaining ratings, and it seems to me that the television marathon machine should be working now, in including exposure. which also exist in social networks, i don’t know, sergey andria, you viewers, you paid attention to the number of fake accounts, fake pages, well, there, for example, the page on which a photo of a ukrainian military woman, and the caption written there, this photo will definitely get less likes than some tv star, and people mass there tens of thousands of likes,

comments, then subscribing to this page, then playing with the audience with the help of this page is already on other strings, i briefly explained this to you in a primitive way, how it works on facebook, the same with twitter, tiktok, artificial intelligence, created videos that talk about the persecution of the tsk, about some conditional, clearly false desire of the ukrainian military to reconcile with the russians, it's all just a rush, billions. euros are spent on this, the propagandist of the mirayev and medvedchuk channels, diana panchenko, has already created an english-language account on twitter, on which she calls herself a ukrainian journalist and tells the thesis of russian propaganda in english. she has a fairly large audience on twitter and on youtube for an audience of millions, i don't see what the authorities are doing with it at the moment, it seems to me that they need to focus on the truth for their own, on

delineation. negative problematic moments in the state through the mouth of the president, including mobilization, it should have been done a long time ago, and on exposing those fakes, people need to be educated, we didn’t all study and read articles about information hygiene, it all needs to be done, well, what about maidan 3, serhii, well, it’s funny, you understand , and in ukraine , no one really has any doubts about the legitimacy of zelensky until... the end of martial law - he is a legitimate president, and until the end of martial law, we will not have another one, they miscalculated, because they think that we are here after 20 we will all go out in may to the maidan and shout, let's change the president, no, it won't happen, and this is another miscalculation of theirs, however, we need to work more actively on counter-propaganda, but it seems to me that the marathon is an excellent tool, and also plus english-speaking resources that need to be created in

order for us. .. understood on the territory of europe and