on the border and the city on the border and i think about this border, so historical, cultural, geographical, border within us, and i know that you remembered, i remembered just now this minute of the words of yevhen koshnaryev, who translated this, who in 2004 speaks in severo-donetsk at this separatist convention, the convention, and he says that i want to remind hot-headed people that from kharkiv to kyiv there are 700 or 800 km, and... from kharkiv to the border with russia 40, and that's actually it too, it was his understanding of the limit, yes, and i want to ask you how this limit is transformed for kharkiv from 2004 to today, how is it, what do you see, what is happening with this sense of limits, this, you know, i also want to mention zero, i was already ukrainian-speaking then. in kharkiv

there were mainly russian-speaking people, and especially when you go in a taxi, you talk to the taxi driver in ukrainian, he immediately asks where you are from, i am from kharkiv, he says, why in ukrainian, because i am ukrainian, he is like that, i am also ukrainian, well i.e., even the language was not the marker of the fact that this territory is russian, kharkiv residents anyway they uh, well, in my opinion, they felt uh... uh, it's still like a different culture, not russian culture, that it was profitable to do business with russia, yes, that it was profitable that the trade routes are profitable , yes, through kharkiv, that is, well, yes, because kharkiv existed for quite a long time, well, economists can correct me here, or well, this is my feeling, that is, kharkiv was such a contact zone for quite a long time, culturally, kharkiv, well , quite... uh, i can't say

easy, it was also quite a long way, but the fact that kharkiv, the ukrainian city of kharkiv, is within the territorial boundaries of ukraine, that kharkiv did not think of separating and joining, well, i did not see that there were, maybe there were such sentiments among certain groups, but that border of 40 km, it was, it is clear that the people of kharkiv wanted it to be transparent enough so that there would be trade. it was possible to earn money, but it was not about the fact that we would like to remove this border altogether, i think the people of kharkiv were more happy that there was no visa, that's when the border became more transparent there, the people of kharkiv, i think, were very happy and happy that they were part of ukraine, not russia. but here actually, i want to ask about the role of the kharkiv museum, actually in this kind of conversion, so culture. so

many communities of kharkiv, so to ukrainians, because i understand it very well, please tell me how your litmuseum came about in general, and what kind of environment it was, let's say in the 14th year, or earlier, that it, from what did it grow from? it was a museum founded in 1988, when the writers' union initiated its creation museum, but let's remember the year 88, this is a period of such crazy... crazy socio-cultural, cultural, political changes, the whole world was falling apart, falling apart, we thought that the empire was falling apart, and it was falling apart forever, then a lot of cultural texts appeared, which were lost, which we did not know, and which were absent from our cultural memory, it was such a crazy period, when it seemed that for a while in the soviet union there was such a corridor. one door you can enter,

suddenly a lot opens up here opportunities, and it is in this context that the museum is being created, it is clear that it could no longer follow the classical traditions of the propaganda museum, because it was also created by dissidents, people who immediately began to raise these materials of the 20s, well, we have a very good a collection of the 20s of the 20th century, that is, it actually grew out of the literature of the 20s, that is, with this interest and with this understanding. uh, and the museum started right away, it was still the soviet union, but the museum immediately came up with the idea of ​​creating an exhibition about the ukrainian 20s, we back then, they still thought in this paradigm of the executioner, the victim , that is, to us, and this is absolutely understandable, because when you suddenly learn about the tragedies that your people experienced, and this is precisely the famine, that's how all this information about repressions began to be revealed. well, you just

can't think otherwise, you have to somehow make sense of the number of murders, the number of murders, and the exhibition of the ukrainian golgotha, permission. the party committee could not get, then, after all, it happened in 1991, it was a big exhibition, and it was the first exhibition about our 20s, and such an environment immediately began to form around the museum, non-conformists, artists, intellectuals, writers who wanted to reconstruct this period, who wanted to collect, who wanted to study this period and who wanted to create this ukrainian environment. of ukrainian kharkiv, and there were different people there, russian-speaking, ukrainian-speaking, it was simply the intellectual environment of kharkiv, yes, whom this ukrainian kharkiv already wanted, russian-speaking, but ukrainian, ukrainian-speaking, but ukrainian, well, in this environment, i got there as a student from

the russian philology faculty, that is, i studied dostoevsky 100, and i get into this environment, and that was it. it is extremely important for me to identify with my identity, too, today we talk a lot about identity, who we are, we try to describe, it is also very characteristic of kharkov that we may not be born with a certain identity, but we we choose it, already in the process of our formation we choose identity, and this is also important the rest of ukraine to know about kharkiv. i chose my identity then, although i remembered all my roots, which were erased there, the way they made me a russian woman, these were all the processes, and i chose, consciously chose my identity, then, when i read the memoirs of yury shevilov, here it

was something similar, i.e. he too, he also chose his identity, he described it very well, and what is happening today in kharkiv is that many kharkiv residents choose their identity, i.e.... it was not articulated and described that we are ukrainians, yes, well, it is not articulated, but today it is precisely in such a painful, painful, sharp way, but this choice, yes exclusion of oneself, literally pulling oneself out of another culture and inclusion into ukrainian culture is happening, why is it so important for us today to create this very a warm emotional memory with the texts of our culture, you know, this is possible, this is also the story of kharkiv... we are talking about the fact that when you were a child, your mother read pushkin's fairy tales to you, yes, and not ukrainian books, well, these are those warm memories childhood, this is then what you take from connections, so it’s biology, or when russian rock falls in love there,

of course, from the adeloid star, i’ll all say, yes, and today, and today, here are these people, they, consciously, and i imagine what it's just painful. i went through this for a long enough time, i consciously cut off everything that was imposed on me, i understand you very well, because we here in kyiv also have all these things, but today people have drastically accelerated it, they pass sharply, this is the choice, the choice is identical to yours, but i will tell you, i was, you and i were together, i am in lately i've been in kharkiv very often, i'm terribly gentle, it's a terrible hometown for me , and i told tanya that it's after... it's the second city, the only one where i could live, if it weren't for kyiv, and i saw very young people , who are actually in the basement, jump to the fire and the dogs, and they know all the lyrics, and they shout these lyrics to these people who are 16-17

years old, and it's amazing, i'm just looking at it, it's just serhiy was also a student and got into this, well, he came here for... he was looking for this ukrainian environment in kharkiv, and it was a literary museum, and for the museum at that time it was very important to be this ukrainian voice, when we were constantly criticized that you are a museum of slobožan literature, slobožan literature is not only ukrainian, ukrainian-language literature, why are you focused on this, well, in fact, we are in the in the 14th year , we accepted the archive of the kharkiv period of eduard limonov's archive into our collection, it is also svobozhyn literature. and we record everything, and the fact that we wanted to strengthen the ukrainian voice in particular is because it was not enough in kharkiv, we did not need to protect and strengthen the russian voice, there was too much of it then in kharkiv, and we chose this position for ourselves, and that it will not be such a voice that continues a certain populist

tradition in order to be like us again mazaila, making me a provincial is a way to make me a provincial, and we wanted exactly, we wanted exactly... to say that ukrainian culture is absolutely in the context and trends of world culture, and that it is not about preserving certain styles there, and it is not about ethnography, it - well, but this is about a certain development and understanding and reinterpretation of even the same traditions, as we have reinterpreted vyshyvanka recently, well, actually, i think that the literature of the 20s, the plant revival, they are growing precisely because that it was an avant-garde of the level of the european avant-garde, so i want to ask you about, in fact, i want to move on and ask about the exhibition, but our editor very strongly... asked me to ask you about what used to be in the premises of the litmuseum on bagaliya and about

by the way, i don't know the kagebi cat about the kagebii cat, please tell me, and about this, well, the museum, can you imagine, the end of the 80s, it is not the best material situation, yes, not the best material situation for a country that is falling apart, and then where this... 90 , this is also not the best situation, the more so, can you imagine, in this context a new museum is founded, which actually ends up without resources, only with one with a crazy enthusiast, with cool people and without resources, and then the museum was offered several premises, one of them is the former estate of the artist storkh, a small private estate with a beautiful garden, then he was in this estate, there were communal apartments after... the liberation struggle, and then after the second world war, a

closed party hotel was created there, well, in the people it was called a party brothel, and there was the one, there was a kagibiya , there was a k room , there was equipment for listening to a certain area, and that is, brothels were created. so that later, yes, these people obviously, it was not investigated there, that is, there, whom they eavesdropped on, we also did not investigate this, but when the museum moved there, our director, the founder of the museum, iryna grigorenko, who was the director for 30 years, she now works in the museum, i actually replaced her only two years ago, and my beginning of the directorship coincided with the beginning with the start of a full-scale invasion, yes jackpot. and she too, she is so young and daring, like all those who came

to work in the museum, and when the kegists said so, well, you will stay here for a while and leave, we will see who will leave, and as a result the museum remained, the kegists left with all my equipment, only the cat remained, the cat remained, vaska’s cat, he was quite impudent and did not really accept museum visitors, well, some poor people stopped by, well, besides, there... there was also a cleaning lady left to work in to our museum at that time, and she also said, well, the nakedness came, well, there were such banquets here, there was so much here, here - nothing reminds me now, nothing reminds me of the banquets, the cat obviously didn’t like us because of that, well, they could n’t ukrainize, brash brash such a cat, well, obviously we didn't have the right products so that he... believed in us. i promised to ask you about the exhibition. i

learned that just a few weeks ago, you opened an exhibition named after the city, artists kostyantyn zorkin and viktor dvornikov. we have a video shot by volodymyr yarmolenko, our colleague who was at your place and actually shows this exhibition. tell me, please, what kind of exhibition is this? ah, more. a year ago, somewhere we thought about the fact that it is worth somehow actualizing the waveman in the city, because his ideas are very relevant, but no not to implement, but to literally spread his ideas, to try to rethink and understand who the waveman is, and when we started the work, what it could be, it could be a theatrical performance or an exhibition, or how we can talk about the waveman today, and in the process of work, we gathered, and we like to gather many people for our projects. people, this, well, that, this, it ’s actually always a collaboration, and here we are, so

it happened that, we, for some reason, i don’t know how it happens, but for some reason we crossed paths with kostya zorkin, with, we with him just before that finished the exhibition, proper names to do together about the renaming of the street, it was very successful, and by the way, at the book arsenal you can see the kyiv version of the kharkiv exhibition proper names, and the fact that the form... i want to take this opportunity to thank you, because the name of our project proper names, it was you who inspired us to call our program proper names when i saw nice. when i saw this exhibition in kharkiv, that's why i was very, very pleased, and we thought, oh, there is, there is already a transfer of our own name, and we called, well, we somehow no, it somehow, it somehow happened together, and we actually chose this name for a reason, sorry for the interruption, it means the exhibition and here and there we are going, we say, we, us, it

is very good for us to be together, it is very good to reflect together, and and how, how to talk about the wave, eh? eh, how to make it so that the waveman stays with us, well, we returned shevilov to us, the city authorities never wanted him there, they even broke his board, yes, we returned him, i believe that the fifth is also known kharkov in that, including us i would really like for the wave to become a part not only of our collective cultural memory there, but also of our personal memory, so that there would be this warm emotional connection with him, as with our such a patron, skovoroda, shevilyov, khvylov and in the process we realized, well, how to revive that memory, in the process we realized that we are actually reflecting not about the wavemaker, but about ourselves, that the memory is not what was before, but what what is happening to us now, that memory is about us, that all our reflections are stories about

the wave, these are primarily stories about us, yes, that is, she synchronizes. as well as the fact that the wave carrier today helps us understand ourselves, or it doesn’t help, or somehow it happened that the project of the pro-wave carrier was named not the pro-wave carrier, and we had the idea of ​​such a ship, a city ship, and aflaston is a figurehead , this is the most exciting, but we understood that we will never see his face, we will always be behind him, we will only see him like this from the back of his head, because kostya says, how can i... cut a tree' i'm not even a figurehead i imagine, i don't understand, yes, yes, yes, this is exactly the master of the ship, and, and it turned out that this is a project about us today, with a wave, and not about a wave, and as a result, when the exhibition actually stood, but kostya proposed this name as the name of the city, he says,

perhaps today we can speak on behalf of the city, we started, we entered this project with a quote from khva. which you read today, the garden, i love the garden very much, and even in our project we often call the city the garden, and this exhibition is an attempt to find exactly the artistic language that we today we can talk about the city on the border, about the city on the front line, in fact, about the whole experience that we are going through, this is this this is this project is not only an exhibition, we also film, we held performances, we have a documentary film, we are making a comic, where it so happened that the heroes of this comic are us, kharkiv residents, we are not a wave, but those who live today, who embody certain powers of superpowers, because those kharkiv residents who today stayed in kharkiv, they all have superpowers, and really, because we know

these beautiful stories, when they arrived... everyone came to buy the book to support, when it was impossible to get in, there were queues, then we flew to pushkinska and it immediately suddenly became skovoroda street, literally after the arrival, then there is our favorite coffee shop makers, which the people of kharkiv did, first of all , the coffee shop did not close, they just closed the windows with chipboard, and they said, we will be selling coffee in two hours. and all kharkiv residents came there to buy a cup of coffee in order to support this, to support this coffee shop, that is, no one ran away from here, yes, everyone on the contrary, they came to help, we literally passed by, i myself passed by all those shops and cafes that did not close, and it was amazing, and i tried to buy something there, and then everyone

left, and that’s how kharkiv works, this these are superpowers, and we really want to have them . it is to catch, it is somehow to record and tell others about it. by the way, to all those who are looking for strength, where to get strength, where to get strength, i say, and you go to kharkiv, and you will understand everything from these signs, where you, you will gain strength, i remember, i was struck, destroyed such a house, two stories, and there is this graffiti image of hemingway, and it says hemjew. and therefore we will live there, there was a literary cafe, old man, yes, that's right there, i am always amazed by the colossal number, this is your grandfather. she was also an artist of our museum when she did it, she did it there, these are our residencies, this is also

an amazing story, because in 22 we somehow put our literary residencies on hold, it must be said about that, so in kharkiv there are two literary residences, one with which is the apartment of yury shevelyov, purchased by ukrainian businessmen and literary people, and another apartment. in the house of words, and in the 23rd year we were already thinking, well , how safe is it to offer to come to the residences, i was just talking to vika amelino at that time, who came to us very often, and we miss her very much, this is this there is also such a hole in the culture, which we were left with, and i say to her, vik, are you ready to come, she says, i want to write a book and i need kharkiv, i say, are you ready to come to residence, of course it is ready, ordinary. the first female resident to come to us, who opened the residence during the full-scale invasion in 23, and after her , others have already left, now we have 22 residents for this

year, imagine, people are willing to come to some crazy people are also willing to come to kharkiv in order to experience kharkiv in order to understand this, and czech authors will come and ukrainian authors, they are already actively coming, but ivan andrusiak just went to... yaryna tsimbal stops by to write about the house of the word on our residence, it is important for her to write there. we commissioned the house of the word, and i commissioned various films and projects, such as the moore project, and the film the house of the word, and also many other projects related to the shooting revival. tanya, how do you feel about the fact that this topic is open to everyone now, everyone feels the literature of the 20s. involvement, everyone believes that they already know well and have accepted, this is the story, and there are projects, people implement various projects, both

of poor quality and of brilliant quality, and how do you feel about it, that's just everyone do projects, and those people who know, and those who are people so sensitively and with knowledge, how do you do it, but also sometimes not very... and not very educated, how do you feel about this more benefit or harm? honestly, i am happy that it is so, you know, once ours, once, well, the fact that this topic is so on the surface, you know, we, we kept this topic on the surface in kharkiv for many years, and in 2004, we then supported the orange the museum of the orange revolution, that's all of us, it was very difficult, well, that's from ours. by our previous government, it was very difficult, it became easier to keep this kharkiv on the surface in the 14th year, because the context changed, and when those who looked around,

they wanted to pull themselves out of this russian culture, where, who can give, who can give us something else, we are here, we say, come to our museum, and we have greatly expanded the circle of those active kharkiv residents who started coming to the museum, we started doing something together, because we kept it, and you know, when someone recently gave an interview about the house of words, well, not from experts, ours is: why weren't we invited, people say, well, we they worked for this for 30 years, so that every resident of kharkiv could talk about the house in a word, which is happiness, without affecting you, for example, sometimes the same current or the same wave, they are interpreted too linearly or too often unfairly. this is already a matter of interpretation, and it seems to me that the more different possibilities of different interpretations, the better. i'm in favor of polynarrative, i'll be honest, i'm in favor of a field of narrative, but you always need

to keep an expert opinion. we still need to leave that expert environment that can give, well, professionally, precisely based on scientific analysis, give certain information, and not just what you want, what will happen later. artists will interpret in different ways, well, that's great, the main thing is to keep this professional environment, why is it important for us that iryna tsymbal come to the residence and make this book about the house of words, it is very important for us, and we will do it together iryna tsibbal is a literary critic, a researcher of the literature of the 20s, she knows this period very well, she popularizes this period very well period, so i'll be honest, right now i might not personally like some works. that came out, well, i interpret it differently there, i perceive it differently, sometimes it can even make me so angry, well, why exactly, but i don't like it when we

are included in this paradigm again. the executioner is the victim, well , we are in this paradigm, as museums lived and worked for a certain time, and then we realized that the 20s should be told about as a period of extraordinary changes, and not as about those who were killed, well, that is, exactly why they were killed well, we need to talk about this period as a period of extraordinary achievements, yes, when we were subjects in fact, yes, when we proposed. not on accomplishments, on death, well, it annoys me a little, i'll be honest, well, it's somehow very easy for us to slip there, it's so comfortable for us to be victims, well, that also annoys me, but the fact that there are a lot of such

products is this. .. truly a joy that we can as museums? right now we want to organize a professional discussion of the film house of the word in our museum, and we are currently working on it, i hope that at the end there will be such a big event in june, and we will be able to express ourselves, we will talk professionally, not at the level of dubious debates, but rather try to put something on the shelves and talk about what, and can i ask your opinion professionally about this film , well , again, i... i was affected by exactly what the emphasis was on, well, i still, when we talk about the house of the word, i would like more on the joy of that period, and not on, well, this is actually a film about methods, it is actually a film about methods kagibists, well, only one such line was taken there, and not about, well, for me it's not about the house of words, it's about the nkvd. tanya,

we have two minutes left, i want to sum it up with this question, but when pen and i travel around ukraine, we have the penivsk unscored libraries program, we go to communities and regions, and we feel that people are far away from philology, far from literature, they feel that the actual point, the point of strength, is culture. do you feel it feels now that's how you as people started it in kharkiv among the people and how it is, how to notice it and how they talk about it very briefly, the question began, and why did this happen , and then and then you start to spin, and looking for an answer to this question, why russia attacked so brutally, you start to spin this

question and with "it turns out that... your heroes are completely different heroes, that your writers are completely different writers, that your names are completely different names, proper names, and people begin to be interested in this, and understand that subjectivity, it goes through the culture, that's it therefore, and what exactly they are aiming at culture, it is amazing how late and at what high cost we found out about it, but we found out. thank you for the conversation, tetyana, tetyana pylypchuk, the director of the kharkiv litmuseum, was our guest, we will see you in a week, thank you for being with us, thank you, are you out?

why did the first officer of the greek air force come to ukraine, what fake russian propaganda was crushed by the naval forces of ukraine and about the consequences of his arrival in the still occupied soledar. the news editor will tell you the most important thing for the day that passes. annaeva melnyk is with you, my greetings. ships and... men of the naval forces of ukraine continue to protect our maritime borders . the navy command refuted the fake spread by russian propagandists about the alleged destruction of our ships. they noted that the occupiers had once again hit the civilian port infrastructure. it is being investigated whether there are victims among civilians. our sailors also urged citizens not to spread russian fakes and to trust only official sources. a powerful arrival in the occupied area

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