by the way, i don’t have an umbrella, can you give it to me, i’m joking, of course, thank you very much , ms. natal snydenko, it was the velikiy eter program, i’ll forgive you until tomorrow, literally in a few moments the verdict program with serhiy rudenko, see you, good evening , we are from ukraine, today in... the verdict program with serhii rudenko, we are making kharkiv into a second aleppo. the russians are systematically destroying the infrastructure of one of the largest cities in ukraine. how to prevent a humanitarian catastrophe and whether the state is ready for a long war on exhaustion. hymars missiles flew to russia. for the first time, ukraine took advantage of the permission to hit military facilities of

the aggressor country with western weapons, what does this change on the battlefield and how can putin respond? not the highest level of american representation. biden is sending vice president garis to the global summit in switzerland. what results can be expected from the peace conference? glory to ukraine, this is the verdict program, my name is serhii rudenko, i congratulate everyone and wish everyone good health. over the next two we talk for hours about ukraine, about the world, about the war and about our victory. let's talk about how the chinese are trying to turn part of the world against the peace summit that will take place on june 15-16 in switzerland. about how the verkhovna rada of ukraine is already thinking about changes. deadlines for updating data

by servicemen, or conscripts, to be more precise, and how to extend this deadline for 150 days instead of 60, and the reasons why this happens, well , most importantly, in this program is how the armed forces of ukraine use the western weapons for strikes on the russian federation, more than 12 countries have already given permission for use. such weapons in strikes on the territory of russia. however, before starting our big conversation, i suggest watching the video of how the fighters of the 81st slobojan airborne assault brigade showed how they destroy the enemy near bilogorivka in the luhansk region. the defenders managed to eliminate hundreds of occupiers and burn dozens of pieces of equipment. so, let's see.

glory to the armed forces of ukraine and death to the russian occupiers. friends, we work live on the espresso tv channel, also on our youtube and facebook platforms. for those who are currently watching us on these platforms, please subscribe to our pages, and if you watch us live on youtube, please vote in the poll. today it sounds like this: do you understand the principle of reservation from mobilization? yes, no, everything is quite simple on youtube if you have your own. an opinion that goes far beyond these two two unequivocal answers, yes or no, please write in the comments under the video, if you watch us on tv, pick up your smartphone or phone and vote if do you think that the principle of booking from mobilization is clear, then 0800 211 381, no 0800 211 382, ​​all calls to these numbers are free, i want to introduce today's our... first guest, this is

pavlo narozhny, military expert, volunteer, founder of a charitable organization charity post. mr. pavle, i congratulate you, thank you for being with us today. good day. let's start our conversation. from this decision of our western partners, there are already more than 12 of them, who allowed to use their weapons for strikes on the territory of the russian federation, what does it change for ukraine and how putin can respond to the change in the situation on the russian-ukrainian border, particularly in kharkiv oblast and sumy oblast. well, let's start at the beginning. from what they understand, what was the situation in the kharkiv region in the thieves, concentrated, according to the supreme commander-in-chief of the president of ukraine zelenskyi, 90 km from the border, from the state border of ukraine in the kharkiv region, the thieves, 90 km away, are forming, well, a new group, some

there the concentration of forces is taking place there, and what were the means of the ukrainian army, we could only use soviet artillery, the range of which is 20, in some cases up to 30. km, at such a distance the enemy does not hold anything serious, there are no command posts, no fuel depots, no more or less serious ammunition depots, we could only hit manpower, well, some of the enemy's equipment, that's all we could do with the help of soviet barrel artillery, then we received permits from sweden, denmark and so on, these countries gave us long-range barrel artillery, well , for example, sweden gave us the archer. the range of a shot with the help of an excalibur projectile is up to 60 km, but it is still barrel artillery, it is a relatively small strike, these are very expensive projectiles, and therefore these strikes could not have any serious impact on the situation, we had to

get permission to use a heavier one, more serious artillery, we are talking primarily about the hymars, the hymars has two types of ammunition: what are our allies, the first is tsemerls, it is a projectile with a range of 84 km, it is a high-precision projectile that can hit hit a circle there 15 m with universal guidance system and gps, and the second more powerful one is the atakams projectiles, but it is known for sure that we have 160 km projectiles, and with some degree of probability, we have 300 km projectiles, well, there was a lot of talk about this, but well any confirmation, this is information from official sources... so far there has been no, and with the help of atakams shells we can hit very high-value targets, well, for example, we can reach the baltimore airport, which is located in the city near the city, well near the city of voronezh, and from which they are launched bombers dropping guided

aerial bombs on the city of kharkiv, well, so far we have not seen such strikes either, what have we already seen, what changes the situation? russian assinter published photos of a destroyed s-300 system, possibly a s-400 in the belgorod region. the russians, using this s-300 system, are firing ballistic missiles at the city of kharkiv, and several launchers were destroyed there, the control center was destroyed there, and most importantly, the radar was destroyed. well, we can say that this whole complex was put under the knife, and he will no longer work. what does this change the situation? this means that the enemy will not... fire ballistic missiles at the city of kharkiv, and when we see strikes on the airfields, it means that the enemy will have to transfer their planes to other airfields, here we are talking about the fact that they will be located already not 300 km from the city

of kharkov, they will be located 400-500 km away, which means that this means that the resource of aircraft will be used much more, they will not be about... 600 km to drop one cab, well there or several cabs, and they will be dropped, they will already fly there under 100-100 km. this is the fatigue of the pilots, this is the resource of the planes, this is the future possible mistakes of the pilots when resetting these cabs, well, that is, it all plays into our hands very much. germany gave, gave permission to use patriot missiles, which they transfer to us to shoot down planes in russian airspace. and this is very important, why yes, because the biggest threat that exists both for the peaceful city of kharkiv and for the defenders who are currently fighting in kharkiv region are the strikes by guided aerial bombs, these guided aerial bombs, their range, they're actually kb - that's not a very

technically correct name, it's actually a family of different bombs, and the range of these bombs varies from 60 to 120 km. 120 km is the maximum range, it is achieved with the help of a jet engine, which is installed on this guided bomb, and we need to shoot down planes, well , in order to protect kharkiv oblast, we can forget about it... exclusively from the long-range air defense system , it is either sumpti or patriot, we have others currently no f16 we haven't received yet so we don't have any other systems to shoot down at a long radius so this is very important when we start shooting down large numbers of aircraft then the enemy will stop using kabil, well that's in a nutshell what will change western weapons in the kharkiv region. mr. pavle, but here is the reaction of moscow even before the decision. of these decisions was quite so harsh, they talked about

the fact that we will also be responsible, maybe even not only on the territory of ukraine, and medvedev, as always threatened there, to the countries of both eastern and western europe. the chancellor of germany, olaf scholz, says that allowing ukraine to use weapons transferred by germany on the territory of russia will not lead to any harm. escalation, because it is about self-defense, in a comment earlier in the post he said, we are convinced that this will not lead to escalation, because, as the president of the united states of america also said, the question is only about being able to protect such large cities as, for example , kharkiv. in your opinion, will this opportunity of ours and our new opportunities lead to escalation when russia can pass to a new stage, or to a new level of shelling of the ukrainian territory, and these

threats that are being made towards our western partners, to what extent they can be implemented by moscow, well, first of all, what could be an escalation, the use of tactical nuclear weapons, well, about it has been said a lot, if russia starts using tactical nuclear weapons, it can already be considered. as an attack on nato countries, well, because it is impossible to carry out such an attack so that it is within a radius of 3-5 km there, so that there is no pollution, so that this pollution did not get there in other european countries, and so on. in addition, there are huge doubts that the enemy has this tactical weapon, it is in a combat condition, because it is known from official sources that by the year 2000, the warranty period for the use of this weapon expired, after that, again... these public sources did not have any information about the fact that they directed the funds to the purchase or support of these nuclear

weapons, chemical weapons could theoretically be so, because the enemy uses them in the war with ukraine, well, so far these are relatively small scale, they drop grenades with chloropicrin there, they have some not, well, not 100% confirmed information about the use of artillery ammunition with chemical weapons, but again, any. confirmation of the use of such weapons is a violation of a bunch of international conventions that were signed on the protection of chemical weapons, on the prohibition of chemical weapons, which russia signed and so on, all other types of weapons were already used by russia, they hit us with ballistic missiles, dagger, iskander, they were on our territory with heavy rockets anti-ship, such as x20, oh yes, x-22, if i'm not mistaken, there is a missile. which warhead is subton, and it is quite low accuracy, they hit, for example, a hotel in

odessa, with such, such, exactly such a missile, they shot zircons and so on, so at the moment i cannot imagine anything that the enemy can use and that maybe raise the degree of escalation on the territory of ukraine, because they have already used almost all types of weapons in the war against us, can they currently, do they have the resources to start fighting, well... a nato country, there, well, if we take it there, let's say, if germany gives us permission, we will start using their weapons there, or there, let's say, there the storm shed curtain, we will start hitting the airfields, according to the russian ones, i am more than sure that such russia does not have the resources to open another front and start a war with great britain or, say, france, and then the level of escalation will be different, and then it will definitely not be a war with great britain or france, it will be a war with the entire nato bloc, then it will already be to fight with... the usa, then the usa will already be used, and this is the most powerful

weapon that exists in the world. mr. pavle, zekonmist writes that thanks to the attack missiles with a range of 300 km received by the armed forces of ukraine, crimea has turned from a logistics center into a death trap for russian troops, i quote the publication. ukraine is trying to make crimea a liability for putin, and not... an asset. the goal is to isolate the peninsula, strangle it as a logistics hub, and thus push back russian air and naval forces from the south of ukraine. ot. well, taking into account how the conist evaluates crimea, and we understand that the crimean peninsula may turn into an island in the near future, how soon can the armed forces of ukraine turn crimea from putin's asset into a liability? well, what we

see now, well, first of all, there were absolutely official statements by kirill budanov, the head of agur, that... that the crimean bridge will be demolished as an illegal building, and apart from words, we have recently seen a very large number of strikes according to anti-aircraft defense systems, it was the s-300 that was destroyed, s-400, radars were destroyed, airfields and airfield infrastructure were struck, and so on. in addition, an attack was made on the ferry crossing. warehouses with petroleum products, which were obviously intended for their transportation to crimea, were destroyed, one steamer was sunk, and the other was damaged, it is important to understand which paths logistics is taking now, well, first of all , crimea itself is not so important, for them , zaporizhia and kherson regions are more important, so in order to bring any cargo there,

currently, there are two ways: the first is through the crimea, through the crimean bridge, or the slave crossing. or by ships, bring something to the crimea, then load it on the railway, bring it to a junkyard, unload it in a junkyard and then take it by truck to the zaporizhzhia region and or to the kherson region and use it there. way number two is to bring to mariupol, by trucks or by some other means, load it on the railroad there, or drive further by trucks. the railway that goes from mariupol to melitopol, it. is in range of ukrainian artillery, here we are not even talking about hymars, but we are talking about even the soviet barrel artillery, which can reach this railway branch from the city of buglidar. the enemy is now actively building a new branch from rostov through mariupol to berdyansk, well, it will go or is already going along the sea of ​​azov. but here again there are many questions. first of all,

there is a bridge under the granite in the donetsk region, which they are building and according to this... there were absolutely official reports of several strikes when it was destroyed engineering equipment and so on, therefore the existence of this branch, it is currently under great question, well, to what extent it is able to transport some cargoes and so on, and the main cargoes still go through the crimea, the enemy is afraid to carry cargo through the crimean bridge, because there was such one very successful strike, when a truck exploded on the crimean bridge, the sbu later confirmed that it was their special operation. the truck exploded, at the same time a railway train with diesel was driving on the bridge, the diesel caught fire and after that they repaired this railway branch for about six months, it was a very serious, very powerful blow to the military logistics of the enemy, they made conclusions, they began to transfer cargo with large amphibious ships and ferries, the large amphibious

ships were destroyed with the help of missile strikes, with the help of naval drones, and they have left... there is only one way, these are ferry crossings, by air, and it is absolutely impossible to transport such a large amount of cargo, so now there is such a big question, when will the crimean bridge be destroyed, and we see preparation for this, it is the destruction of the air defense systems, why yes, because we have such heavy weapons, we have a storm shadow with a warhead weighing 450 kg and potentially we have atakams missiles with a high-explosive charge, well, any official confirmation this is information. no, but it is possible from a technical point of view, and the question arises, when a blow will be struck in order to demolish the crimean bridge, then the enemy will deliver anything to the crimea, there will be only one way left, along the sea of ​​azov, along this unfinished iron road road, or trucker, it will be a very long, very problematic journey under the shelling of ukrainian

artillery under the strikes of drones and so on, and then 2 million people who... are in crimea, it will be a problem for them, well, because there was approximately, well, the population before the war, by the 14th year, 2 million, and approximately 1 million were brought by the russians after the occupation, how many there are to say, well, it is difficult, and it will all pass along the coast of the sea of ​​azov, well, that is, it will not just be a problem for the enemy, but simply catastrophic it is a problem from the point of view of logistics to deliver goods there. thank you, mr. pavle for talking to you, it was pavlo narozhny, a military expert and... we, friends, continue to work live on the tv channel, as well as on our youtube and facebook platforms, for those who are watching us live there now, please join our pages, and also take part in ours: interviewed today, we ask you about the following: do you understand the principle of reservation from mobilization in ukraine, yes, no, everything is quite simple on youtube, if you have your own

opinion, leave it, whatever please in the comments below this video, we are interested to know your opinion, if you watch us on tv, pick up your smartphone or phone and vote, if you understand the principle of booking from mobilization 0800 211 381, no 0800 211 382, ​​all calls to these numbers are free, vote, at the end of the program we will sum up the results of this vote . next , oleksandr khara, an expert on foreign security policy, the center for defense strategies, a diplomat, will be on our air. mr. oleksandr, i congratulate you, thank you for being with us today. good evening, mr. sergey, congratulations. let's get started i will start our conversation with what biden said, i have a different interpretation today. i have already read and listened to his statements about nato, ukraine and nato. in an interview with the magazine, he stated that ukraine's membership in nato is not necessary to

guarantee peace, quoting what joe biden said. peace looks like a guarantee that russia will never, never, never, ever occupy ukraine. this is what peace looks like, and it doesn't mean nato, that it, that they are part of nato. this means that we have the same relations with them as with other countries where we go we are supplying weapons so that they can defend themselves in the future, but this is not the case, if you notice, i was the one who said that i was not ready to support the natovization of ukraine. well, that's quite a heavy quote, and i don't know if the journalists presented what biden said correctly, maybe he did say that, but at least we translated it like this. does this mean that ukraine will not be in nato very soon, and these bilateral security agreements should guarantee ukraine support in the war with

russia? well, first of all, the translation is absolutely accurate, i read the original article, and of course, that this is not exactly a positive signal for ukraine before the day of the summit in washington, it is clear that we half expected it. a step forward, we understand that we cannot be accepted into nato now, but we definitely would like clear political guarantees that, let's say, something would be more than nato's door being opened for ukraine. and of course, this is a holiday for our enemies, because on the one hand, they will be motivated to continue this war, because they understand that nato will not protect ukraine, that we will not become nato members in the near future. well, on the other hand, you can. point of view , it is clear that this administration adheres to such a crisis management approach, and not to a strategy that would lead to the victory of ukraine and to the entry of ukraine in a full,

internationally recognized, i mean territorial, in, let's say, nato. it is a pity that this is so, and it is clear that joseph biden believes that these agreements that we have already signed with a number of countries and are going to sign with... with the united states are those that help ukraine in this war. i hope they don't see them as security guarantees, because in essence they cannot be such, but it is clear that in these conditions this is the maximum we can hope for, that is, to strengthen us now in this war and to strengthen us in the future, so that we are able to deter russian aggression after its end , that is, if you make a forecast for washington. the summit that will be held in july, the anniversary summit, obviously a lot of right words will be said there about the alliance and how it protects all and all

alliance members, so this is the warning to zelensky, which was written about by the western media, so that he does not torpedo the issue of ukraine's accession to nato at the summit, it is obvious, it corresponds to reality. yes, well, the position of the ukrainian authorities regarding both the peace summit and nato is clear, we are trying to increase the pressure on our partners, on those who are afraid of something, first of all, of course, it is the united states, but also germany, and in the case of the peace summit, we are trying to attract as many countries as possible, the so-called global south, and of course, we would like to see joseph biden, although from the mass media. i understood that the vice president, as well as the national security advisor, will be present at the summit, well, this may not be bad, because the level of the vice president is very good.

but to be honest, i would be more happy to see mr. blinkin, he is probably the only hawk in the current administration, and i understood that it would be a positive signal for ukraine, but in any case, i understand the ukrainian authorities, which are trying to use this moment to get the most out of the nato summit, to move on from the repetition of catchphrases that nato, nato's doors open that ukraine belongs. to nato, that there will be a moment in the future when we will become members of nato. of course, we would like more than these already somewhat, shall we say, far-fetched phrases. this peace summit that you mentioned, which starts on june 15th in switzerland, will not have china, but will have, as you said, vice president kamala harris and national security advisor jake.

what do you think beijing actually wants by refusing this meeting, is it a game for putin, or a game to still be influential pole of the world? china has its own interests that do not coincide with the interests of ukraine and our partners who support us, by and large, not all the interests of the russian federation coincide with china, but in this case... china is clearly the advocate of the russian federation, it is trying to create an alternative platform, i understand that the chinese are afraid that there will be such a large international coalition that will already fix certain positions of the ukrainian peace plan, and of course that it will be much more difficult then to help russia choose some of its own there positions, china is in fact the front, or rather, it

seems like that somewhere in the past. last week there was a visit of the chinese foreign minister to brazil, there was a joint statement where they said, well , the right things on the one hand, but they certainly do not apply to russia, that you cannot aim at civilian objects, you cannot kill the civilian population, here everything is clear, but russia does not comply with international humanitarian law, and it was said that there should be such a platform where the russian federation can also be present, we understand that there is no sense in this, because... russia will block any decision that could be made at such a summit, and most importantly, we understand that the russian federation is not interested in peace, it is interested in ukraine recognizing itself as defeated and accepting the new territorial realities, well, the list of what what they want in moscow is blocking our membership in nato, i am sure that there will be demands regarding the european union, and also many other things that would actually... grant

ukrainian statehood, that is, the chinese in principle support it, they would like to this war is over, but on the other hand they can't let russia lose this war and will support it at all costs, thank god they don't support with weapons so far, but they support very much with both normal trade and dual purpose goods and above all , microchips that make it possible to build missiles and weapons, that is, china is playing its own game. which, in principle, plays along with mr. putin, and also, as we heard that president zelensky during his stay in singapore, accused the chinese side not only that it tolerates this summit, not without participating, but also influences other players, well, we know that saudi arabia is not going to be there, probably the same brazil, because here the positions with china also coincide, i think that there are still countries. which

china has influence over, and of course they wouldn't want to see those countries at our peace summit, by the way, john kirby, the white house national security adviser, rather, the spokesman, says, despite the fact that there at this summit there will be no joseph biden, but he says that there is not one leader in the world who would support ukraine more and more decisively than joe biden, regardless of who... will represent the united states at this summit, and will be represented, by the way, by the vice president of the united states of america, it cannot be claimed that we have in any way departed from support of ukraine, well , it is clear that the most important thing in this story is to understand what the final of this peace summit will be like, mr. oleksandr, what do you think will be a success for ukraine.