on which china has influence, and of course they would not like to see these countries at our peace summit. by the way, john kirby, adviser, or rather, spokesman of the white house on national security issues, says: despite the fact that joseph biden will not be there at this summit, he says that there is not a single leader in the world who would support ukraine more and more decisively than joe biden, regardless of ... who will represent the united states at this summit, which will be represented, by the way, by the vice president of the united states of america, it cannot be argued that we somehow somehow moved away from supporting ukraine, well , it is clear that the most important thing in this story is to understand what the final of this peace summit will be, you, as mr. oleksandr, what do you think will be a success for ukraine. is it already a success

for ukraine that 106 countries of the world agreed to delegate their representatives there, this is already a success, or some decisions or communiques, resolutions that will be adopted at this peace summit, when we can say that this peace summit was successful? well, you know, the main tasks of the ukrainian side for this summit are these actually stimulate our partners. who have supported us until now, we must do this constantly, we must not look at the support of even the countries of the free world as something that is taken for granted, and the most important thing is to unite the countries of the so-called global south. it is very important that we actually fix, you know, nail down certain points that we are not going to deviate from during the next summits or negotiations, and of course... during possible

negotiations with the russian federation, i don't believe that this can happen under the current regime, but in any case, we really need these countries to sign up to our certain points, and we will have the moral, diplomatic, let's say, influence, so that they do something about it, and the most important thing is that ukraine has its own peaceful plan, anyone else, including china, have no such plan, they have a political position on the settlement of the ukrainian ... crisis, as they call russian armed aggression, and no one else has any realistic proposals on how to do it. the russian federation cannot put forward such a plan for obvious reasons, because it will not comply with the norms and principles of international law, and of course, it will be simply impossible to fix it, so it is important for us to consolidate support, especially to attract those who have not yet expressed such support. with

the possibility to put pressure on them later, and in fact to stake a single peace initiative behind them, a real peace, that the ukrainian peace plan does not contain anything that is not in international law, in the un charter, the final act of the csce and other international documents, to which russia is also a party the federation, and china, and other countries that have already said that they will not participate in... in this summit, or may refuse to participate in this summit, so this is an important thing, important from the point of view of consolidating support for the position of ukraine and well actually supporting ukraine not only with words and declarations, but with arms, weapons, humanitarian aid, economic aid and isolation of the russian federation. also, mr. oleksandr, an important event, or rather, it is stretched out in time, this event is the granting

of permission to the armed forces of ukraine to use western weapons for strikes on russian federation. we have already seen how hymers works on the s-300 and s-400 installations located in the belgorod region, which are shelling kharkiv. the minister of defense of the netherlands, kaisa ollohgren, said that her country will give ukraine permission to use the transferred f-16 fighter jets, including for strikes against... targets on the territory of russia. we apply the same principle to aircraft as we apply to all other arms shipments. since we handed it over to ukraine. ukraine decides how to use it. we only ask to observe international law and the right to self-defense, as defined by the un charter. this means that they can use the weapon to hit military targets that it needs to hit in self-defense. mr. oleksandr, what happened? it is so fundamental in

the perception of our western partners of the russian-ukrainian war that they took such a step: shelling kharkiv, attacking kharkiv. is it possible to have any additional data that they have there intelligence data that they have received? well, first of all, it should be said that this is a completely unsuccessful strategy, which from the very beginning applied to us and the russian federation in washington, that we cannot strike on russian territory, and i want to remind you that in 22nd year we were not even allowed to strike on occupied crimea, they were afraid of russian escalation. walkie-talkies, but first of all, ukraine crossed these red lines, they did not violate our agreements with partners, we did not use western weapons on russian territory, they were what we had, and also not ukrainian, actually russian freedom fighters crossed the state

border with the russian federation was also indicated there order in regions adjacent to ukraine, this is one story, that is, when we act as an actor. another story is how the russian federation is acting, how it is escalating, and in fact it is a story since 2014 that i keep reminding that the first serious sanctions against russia were not imposed because of illegal the annexation of crimea, not with the crimes that the russian federation committed on the territory of the donetsk-luhansk region, but in connection with the downing of the malaysian aboing, that is , every time the russian federation... commits some incredible crime, our western partners are horrified and cross the red lines of fear of their internal fear that russia can somehow escalate the situation. if we are talking about this very permission, the only thing is that in the public space there are different readings of this,

we do not know whether it applies to the entire territory of the russian federation along our border, or only around the kharkiv region, but it is clear that... in washington, they absolutely realized the fact that the non-supply of weapons to ukraine for almost six months gave the russians an advantage, they grouped together and threatened kharkov, i’m not talking about the fact that they actually wipe it out every day with their bombardments, and of course, not wanting, let’s say, to give the russians a head start and the opportunity to seize certain positions around kharkov, the following decision was made: what, well, half-hearted decision, but thank god that even if it was such that we could destroy the accumulation of forces and means of the russian federation, which were then used on our territory there to the north of kharkiv. i hope that there will not be any other terrible tragedies related to

ukraine, so that in the end the american partners overcome the remnants of all these fears and already allow ukraine to fight. in full force, using all available means, especially since ukraine, first of all, has never violated its agreements with its partners, that is, it has not used western weapons in a way that we were not allowed to do. second, our strikes on russian territory have never violated international humanitarian law. we do not destroy civilian infrastructure, we strike only those facilities that feed this war, or feed economy in order to kill ukrainians. thank you, mr. oleksandr, for the conversation, it was oleksandr khakhana, a diplomat, and we continue to work live on the tv channel, as well as on our youtube and facebook platforms. for those of you watching us live right now, please

subscribe to our pages, like this video, and vote in our poll. today we ask you about the following: do you understand the principle of reservation from mobilization. yes no, everything is quite simple on youtube if you have your own opinion a separate one that goes beyond these two answers, please write in the comments under this video, if you watch us on tv, take a smartphone or phone and vote if you understand the principle of reservation from mobilization in ukraine 0800 211 381, no 0800 211 382, all calls to these numbers without are free, vote, at the end of the program we will tally up the results. of this vote, ihor reiterovych, political scientist, head of political and legal programs of the ukrainian center for social development, will be in touch with us. mr. igor, i am you congratulations, thank you for being with us today. good evening. let's start our conversation with how ukraine is currently experiencing strikes on

the energy sector of the state, and we have the consequences of these strikes, long-lasting, the russian federation for several months. in recent years , he is actively trying to break up the energy sector of ukraine, and we see what is happening in cities and villages. turning off the lights because there isn't enough electricity for everyone, what do you think the world can do in the current climate given that what they do the russian occupiers leads to a humanitarian disaster in ukraine, and this is a violation of all absolutely international rules and the conduct of war, well, it is even possible to some extent. count as one of the manifestations of genocide, if you look very carefully at the documents that regulate this

issue, then such things are directly related to this, and what can the world do, well, there are three components here, the first component is, of course, maximum help ukraine in the restoration of generation, the maximum decentralization of this generation, i.e. those the funds that we currently receive for the restoration of this entire energy infrastructure should be significantly increased, and in principle , countries should focus here... on helping ukraine to restore this generation as quickly as possible, well, to be more precise, not quickly, but as much as possible rather, because we understand that there are certain objective points, and these points must be taken into account, this is the first thing, the second thing, well, this is an understandable increase, well, such a serious pressure, actually, on the russian federation in order for it to stop these strikes , i won't even to talk about the sanctions that have already been imposed on moscow, because we see that the world is quite difficult to implement these things, but there are certain areas, a seriously more or less substantiated and backed up threat to introduce sanctions there could really influence

the russian federation and force her, well, at least for some period these blows should be stopped. for example, this is the field of nuclear energy, which is very important for russia and against which no sanctions have been introduced at all. therefore, in this context, of course, it is possible to work in this direction and force russia in this way to reduce those barbaric absolutely terrorist. which it inflicts, well, and the third most important point, we gradually began to solve this issue, but it is not enough, we need more, this is the provision of such weapons to ukraine and permission to use weapons on the territory of the russian federation itself, so that we can minimize the blows that russia inflicts, not destroying rockets in the sky over ukraine, because we see the situation in the dnipro, in other cities, in kharkiv, which are constantly shelled, debris falls and debris is carried also a great danger, and for this to happen on the territory of the russian federation itself. for this to happen, well, like strikes on launchers and planes and on many other

points, these three components in combination can lead to a certain effect, because there are simply some calls to russia not to do this, well, they do not work, we see , what do they care, the russians respect only force in this regard, and combined these stories they can influence russia in such a way that, well, at least hits on a critical infrastructure it will stop. there is no generation left in kharkiv. of electricity , the mayor of the city, ihor terikhov, said in an interview with the estonian publication er that a very difficult heating season is ahead, but kharkiv is counting on the help of the government of ukraine and foreign partners to purchase many small power plants. let's listen to what terikhov said. we will spend funds from both the city budget and the future government subvention. i have such a hope. in addition, we have agreements with berlin to sign an agreement on giving us 25 million euros for these purposes. the ebrd

has already sent us a draft of such an agreement. i am counting on these funds to purchase such equipment, but i want to note that it is a very complicated process, because such equipment is produced for several months. well, mr. igor, the government plans to make it easier to import energy equipment for the project into ukraine. i also spoke about terikhov and supporting small generation, denys shmyhal, the prime minister of ukraine, said about this today during the government meeting, let's listen to shmyhal. removal of customs and bureaucratic barriers for import into ukraine of generators, solar panels, accumulators, inverters and other equipment and parts for such equipment. support for consumers who will install their own generation, in particular through the provision of concessions. credits, each regional center must have installations for powering critical

infrastructure, we are talking about dozens of mini- heat stations across the country. mr. igor, it is clear that the current situation arose due to the aggression of the russian federation, due to the strikes of the russian occupiers on our energy-generating companies, but at the same time, judging by what terikhov and shmyhal say, that... we do not have enough of these mini-stations, mini-power stations, that is, the problem was in monopolization, that is, there were monopolists who held and continue to hold this very electro. er, energy infrastructure, as a result of which, in fact, the derivation of several theses or theses leads to the fact that the lack of a sufficient amount of electricity leads to blackouts. in your opinion, was it possible to avoid such a situation and is this what we have a consequence of this

oligarchization of ukraine, when several large financial ... industrial groups simply made money from this and kept it all in their hands, not allowing the development of these and other small stations. listen, any person who works in the field of energy, and not in the highest positions, will tell you that the situation is precisely this, that there was monopolization, and due to this , the opportunities for these mini-stations, which by the way, many very well representatives of other areas of business offered me there. when we had a boom and this one the boom even continued to a certain extent after the beginning of the war in general, which russia started against ukraine, that is, from the 14th year for the construction of, for example, cottage towns and so on, they very often offered to build such objects together with them, but they did not they could do it because the legislation was written in such a way that all this belonged to several or even one large company, this

monopolistic company also issued invoices and actually carried out, well, the authorities failed on their own. generation, that is, before what was being built, well, and afterwards they made good money on this, so on the one hand, shmyhal, he states that we have negative consequences due to the lack of political will to change this situation, the problem here is another, why is this question being asked in the third year of a large-scale war, because in fact, since in the 22nd year, the following warnings were sounded by specialized experts, who said that the government should first of all prepare for such an opportunity, maximize the potential of this field and give the opportunity to import, including small generation facilities, which will be possible later use. currently, we have reached a critical situation, not having the appropriate regulatory and legal framework, this is a very important moment, having monopolization of the market, it takes time to overcome it, because it is not done quickly, plus now we still have to look for

western suppliers and partners, who will be ready to do it and bring it, well , because they also, in principle, need to make money from this and we need to create the appropriate conditions, and look, there is another very important point here, purely social, unfortunately, we did not hear much that's about it from the lips of the prime minister, and it was necessary to start with this, i am not talking now about the increase even in electricity prices, in the end one can find here many different explanations why this happened, and not all of them are of a subjective, let's say, nature , is really objective, the question is different, when we have such a problem, the mayors of big cities talk about it, they talk about it... the prime minister, now we need to think about how to solve it from a social point of view, because we have a huge number of people who are low-income, this is the first retirees are next, and they already need to think about how to help with some portable things that will allow them to be without electricity, well, in the coming months, because they, for example, do not have the opportunity

to buy even a basic power bank, that is, for you know, it's such a purchase, well, from the category of something sky-high. that is, it is a lot of money, and it is necessary to start, including from this, to remove customs duties for the importation of similar goods there, so that a part of ukrainians, those who can afford it, yes, they also bought all this and were prepared just in case for the problems that we will actually have in the energy sector, and the prime minister said today that we have to get used to the fact that we will live with these problems for the next few years, and therefore, there is a social aspect here, it is also important, in addition to deoligarization. demonization, making certain decisions, and solving this problem by simply creating a large number of suppliers who will provide these services. the only thing you know about me is such a small clarification, i would really not like this demonization or de-oligarchization to turn into such a very primitive, well, let's

put it conditionally, nationalization, and then some new owners will come, and we will replace one oligarch, conditionally speaking. on the other, because on the other, because such ideas were circulating, and in principle, well, there might be an attempt to implement them, so we hope that this will not happen after all, because, well, it would look very bad, especially during the war. well, so that it does not turn out like with a single telethon, when a single information flow is controlled by several people, but we have deoligarhized, that is, eh, and these people actually control these channels. look, another interesting statement was made by... the secretary of the national security service oleksandr lytvynenko, he says that russia is determined for a long-term war with ukraine, and in the worst case, it can turn kharkiv into a second aleppo, about that. he stated in an interview with the wall street journal, he recalled that in aleppo, russian aircraft destroyed the electricity and water supply systems, as well as bombed hospitals and

school then the population of the city decreased to a third of the pre-war level. they simply displaced people, this is what they want to practice around kharkiv, litvinenko believes. obviously, russians think not only about kharkiv, maybe they think the same way about kyiv, maybe they think the same way about the dnipro, big cities. without electricity and without water supply, they will turn into cities where not many people will live, i.e. one-third of the people there, two/thirds can go somewhere to live in the village or to the west of ukraine, and this is obviously putin's tactic, i started our conversation with this, i will still continue with the same, can the world community now intervene in this, because in the case of zalep they did not do this, they bombed this city, nothing there is nothing left of that city, we see how

we already have ten aleppos in small towns, bakhmut, avdiyivka, and many, many different smaller towns and villages in the east of ukraine. uh, when the world finally starts talking to... russia as a criminal, a war criminal, a war criminal a criminal who is right now, well, if it is difficult to prove that this is a genocide of the ukrainian people, because it is a long-term procedure, but from the position of power, when he will force ukrainians not to be put on the edge of survival, well, this is actually an interesting question, i think that the world is gradually starting to deal with it, and we see it and... according to the latest statements and the latest decisions, of course, it is not happening as quickly as we would like and as it would be in fact, well, but

there are certain attempts, certain efforts at least in this context, so it is necessary here still take into account that ah, some changes we are seeing now, they are not yet of a tectonic nature, but they are, maybe, well, one, let's say, a reason that will make the world think about it sooner, i would very much didn't want to... believe in the implementation of this scenario, but this scenario foresees an increase in the number of refugees there, for example, from ukraine, several million more who will leave there for european countries, and then they will really have to react differently in some way , well, the only other point here is that, of course, this is not syria, there is a lot of attention we will get more shackles and much more help, so here we just have to start calling things by their names, that putin is an outright terrorist, and the world should be interested. and to stop it now is the democratic world, because if that doesn't happen, i'm here, by the way, to agree with the maxim that biden expressed in the last interview, where he said that if

ukraine does not stand up and we if we help her win, poland or some other country will be next, where russia will actually come federation, it should be based on this that we need to talk more about this on the example of ukraine, i think that we need to pay more attention to this, including at the state level, because with all due respect to the really... important forum, summit, or rather, peace, yes, which will be held in switzerland, this is a necessary thing, and a lot of effort has been invested in it, and so on, but at the same time, it is necessary to hold a similar summit in relation to those war crimes and genocidal practices, which terrorism, which applies the russian federation, on the example of every place, include the heads of cities there, let them tell stories, show photos, there, they shoot videos, and right from the street, what is happening, that is, we should also focus on this , because it is about... a global humanitarian catastrophe, which, look, there can and should be even a certain cynical calculation, can directly hit the european union, including at least, and here

we must approach them from this point of view, you do not want to help put pressure on as much as possible, if you could, so you will pay twice or 10 times more in the future when it comes to you, or refugees who simply will not be able to hold on there in ukraine will flock to you, so you need one of these there will probably be moments even then. demand from the world a completely different reaction to what is happening now? it is clear that the world will treat ukraine accordingly, if ukraine also makes efforts to develop democracy, to fight corruption, that is, there is a whole set of options that our western partners also want to see in ukraine. there are fresh data from the kyiv international institute of sociology, etc... the results of this survey indicate that 43% of ukrainians believe that during the 5 years of zelenskyi's presidency, the situation with democracy in ukraine has worsened, 28% of them. are convinced that this

happened due to the authorities' efforts to curtail the rights and freedoms of citizens, while 19% of ukrainians believe that the situation with democracy has improved, and 29% that it has not changed. mr. igor, do you think the situation with democracy in ukraine deteriorated during the 5 years of zelensky's presidency? i think it got worse, and i'm not one of the 11% who say that... that the war is the cause, i would divide, it got worse after 22 objectively because of the war, but it got worse very rapidly until 22nd year, not because of a large-scale war, but because of certain actions, well , actually by the authorities, and look, here you can make a sad joke, well, only the office of the president can be congratulated for the fact that they outdid even the war, and this is actually very an indicative moment and a very dangerous moment, and adequate authorities must react to it,

draw certain conclusions, because this is a very alarming bell, which actually says that ukrainians are well versed in what is happening in the country, there is this study, it is detailed, there we are talking about the forms of government and about many other things, and there are also very unambiguous answers, and by the way , one more interesting point, if in the 22nd year in the same survey, the kms, which conducted almost more than half, a little more half of the ukrainians said that they are not against a strong hand now, well, because the war and so on, after a year actually in 20, well, the 23rd came, and in 24 there is practically no demand for a strong hand, it is much smaller than the demand in general, just for a normal democracy, and this is also indicative, it is also a signal to the authorities that you had a certain credit of trust there in the 22nd year and you did something with it in the 23rd, in the 24th, somehow you destroyed it and clearly not exclusively for the protection of the country, and therefore these data, they are very telling, i am afraid that they are, by the way maxim, i saw it already today,

the russians are also starting to use them, well, they are from their own country. point of view they do it, they start trying to spread certain theses on the western audience there and so on, they don’t read into the details there, they take some kind of general picture, but this is also a signal for us, on the one hand it pleases, therefore that it can be seen that citizens are sorting things out, trying to evaluate and reach, well, certain conclusions, to convey some signal to the authorities there, on the other hand, well, it is disappointing, because the authorities, such polls seen in previous years, and there was also a certain tendency to reduce democracy there and so on. and the fact that there are now more people who believe it has gotten worse shows that the authorities in previous years did not jump to conclusions. thank you, mr. igor, for the conversation, it was igor reiterovich, a political expert. friends, we continue to work live on the espresso tv channel and on our youtube and facebook platforms. now we will look at the interim results of our survey, we are asking you today about this, do you understand the principle of reservation from mobilization, the results of our

tv. vision survey 5% do not understand, 90, 5% understand, 95% do not understand. the same survey will be in the second part of our program, which will start in 15 minutes, after the news release from our colleagues at the bbc. yevgenia kravchuk, people's deputy of ukraine from servant of the people, yaroslav zheliznyak from golos, people's deputy of ukraine, mykhailo tsimbalyuk, people's deputy of ukraine, will be in the studio . motherland, stay with us, stay with espresso, it will be interesting from now on, see you in 15 minutes.

the zsu corridor in the black sea, how ukraine managed to restore trade on its own during the war, we are talking about this on the bbc, live from london, i'm yevgenia shedlovska. many people... missed this victory, but it is extremely important for the ukrainian economy, because it was possible to restore the main trade route through the black sea and export not only grain and agricultural products, but also restore other ukrainian exports. how did this become possible? remember, there was the black sea grain initiative, it was signed in istanbul for mediation of the un and turkey, separately with russia, separately with ukraine, in the summer in the first full-scale year.