to france to discuss ukraine's support with macron and to find out whether there is any basis for rumors about tensions between kyiv and washington in relations with zelenskyi. competition of peace formulas. china has already gathered more than two dozen countries under an alternative plan to end the war in ukraine. what to expect from the global forum in switzerland without the participation of xi jinping. economic reservation prospects. ukrainian business warns of a catastrophic situation that is developing in industries due to the mass mobilization of men. how to avoid a crisis in the economy? glory to ukraine, this is the verdict program. my name is serhiy rudenko, i greet everyone and wish everyone good health. for the next two hours , we will talk about ukraine and the world. about the war and

about our victory. during our two-hour conversation, we will talk about democracy during zelenskyi's presidency, how ukrainians assess the state of freedom of speech and, in general, the state of freedom of people in ukraine, and about the upcoming summits in president zelenskyi's schedule, this is the peace summit that will take place june 15-16, july summit... in washington the nato summit, and a meeting with biden, two meetings in june will be held with the ukrainian president on june 6 in france and on june 12-13 in italy, where the g7 summit will take place. one, before starting our conversation, i suggest watching a video of how ukrainian border guards and fighters of the 28th separate mechanized brigade repelled a russian assault in the direction of bakhmut, they managed to burn a tank. the t-80's knocked out t-90m broke through,

three enemy btr-82s were blown up thanks to remote mines, and attack drones destroyed the damaged armored personnel carriers. let's watch this fireworks video. glory to the armed forces of ukraine and death to the russian occupiers. friends, during our broadcast we are conducting a survey, today we are asking whether authoritarianism threatens ukraine. quite a simple question, yes, no, the answer is on youtube, either yes or no, your comment, please write in the video, in

the comments below this video, and if you watch us on tv, take your smartphone or phone and vote 0800 211 3881 if you think ukraine is in danger of authoritarianism, no 0800 211 382 if you don't agree with the fact that authoritarianism threatens ukraine. i want to introduce our first guest today, this is dmytro razunkov, people's deputy of ukraine, chairman of the verkhovna rada of ukraine in 2019-21, mr. dmytro, i welcome you, thank you for being here today. with us, good evening, thank you for, we ask our tv viewers whether ukraine is threatened by authoritarianism, you, as a person, experienced and informed, what can you say about this, whether ukraine is threatened by authoritarianism, the desire for authoritarianism to exist in ukraine, always appears in certain politicians, fortunately, so far it has not been successful, and this regime has not taken root in us, those who do not believe can ask yanukovych, but...

there is always such a risk, and today it is precisely when people ask what ukraine is fighting for its land, there for the future, that's all, but it is fighting not to become russia in terms of how elections are held there, as democracy is held there, as there is no freedom of speech, no rule of law, huge corruption, so we have to do all that not... tarism, not all those things that i am talking about just noted, they were not in ukraine, and ukrainians are such a nation that this history does not survive, but it is definitely necessary to work to ensure that it never survives, why i am actually asking, because there is a fresh sociology of the kyiv international institute of sociology, and this sociology shows that 43% of ukrainians believe that during the 5 years of zelenskyi's presidency, the situation with democracy in ukraine has worsened. of them, 28%

are convinced that this happened due to the authorities' efforts to curtail the rights and freedoms of citizens, while 19% of ukrainians believe that the situation with democracy has improved, and... this is 9%, which has not changed, however you would characterize the situation with democracy in ukraine, over the past five years, you came to power with zelenskyi's team, and obviously you can divide there into several periods what what has happened in the last five years, for the last 2.5 years you have been out of zelenskyi's team, and maybe more, maybe even more, as it were... you commented on this sociology that 43% believe that after all , the situation with democracy in ukraine has worsened, well, i would classify myself as 43%, which has worsened, moreover, if we talk about stages, there was a stage where it definitely improved at the beginning

of the term of office of the president, the verkhovna rada, and the cabinet, i remember, and in relation to many processes, it was absolutely not the same, you know, not no... as they say, it was human, and then attitudes began to change, and today i, i am not only talking about the president, i am talking about the system as a whole, and i believe that we have problems with democracy , we can immediately mention about them the lack of freedom of speech, including in relation to your channel, it is not at all in which gate does not fit in, and yes... the same situation regarding the attitude to any other opinion, we can also talk about the only marathon that destroyed or is destroying television today, and this is not my opinion, your opinion, it is the opinion of our international partners , you have seen the statements of the state department of the united states, and

embassies, etc., we can talk with you about the lack of democratic principles, about the fact that any other... opinion or reference to the problem today is perceived as ipso, and you see how is a disinformation center, or the disinformation action center, i don't know how to call it correctly, it actually tries to turn everything that the authorities don't like into some kind of treason, but it's definitely not the case, because there are a lot of people who absolutely don't have to prove their patriotism, their... devotion to this state, they tell the truth and for that they get paid, excuse the slang, but nevertheless, the truth is something that must be fought for, and that is exactly what the armed forces of ukraine are fighting for today, what do they i would like to thank you, you started ours broadcast with the 28th brigade, first of all

, they recently had an anniversary, and this is a great brigade, and there are a lot of good officers fighting there, including kamrich, but look, we are talking about democracy, how do you personally... now you feel yourself in the media space, you are now on the espresso tv channel, which does not air t2 and to which there are probably claims in the office of the president or in the council of national security and defense, which turned us off illegally in april 22, are you invited to those channels that are in a single telethon, and how you perceive it, that is there are, if they are not invited, then this is a restriction of freedom of speech, a restriction of the freedom of speech of a people's deputy... of ukraine, a restriction of the freedom of speech of a ukrainian politician. let's break it down, part one: as a guest on tv channels or on tv channels that work in a single marathon

or broadcast a single marathon, because unfortunately, i'm sure, they don't affect the editorial policy, i haven't been in a very long time , i think somewhere around plus or minus april. of the same 22nd year, and i know for sure that there were dungeons, there were direct prohibitions, blocks on for me to appear on the air of these channels, now the only place where i can appear is when there is a meeting of the verkhovna rada, and they are forced to broadcast it, and thus forced to broadcast what i am trying to convey to the people's deputies in the walls of the parliament and to the people so that they see that , first of all... there are and are adequate proposals, adequate ideas that should be implemented in life, including showing those pitfalls that the representatives of the authorities really want to hide, starting there from raising taxes, increase tariffs, corruption and many other things that

they would like, well, no one to see, no one to hear about it, and to pretend that it does not exist, but it will not, therefore, within the framework of the tv channel. sometimes i also have to appear on this channel, and yes, thank you for the invitation, but you and i are somewhere plus or minus in the same boat, because it is also... illegal and wrong, but nevertheless, we live, we survive and we will win, but tell me, well, i want to understand the logic, if it is clear with petro poroshenko, that is, he is the opponent of volodymyr zelenskyi in the 2019 elections, why exactly is zelenskyi's team fighting with dmytro razumkov, do they think that you are a competitor of volodymyr zelenskyi in the elections of 20 or 30 or what year, i don't know, they really like to fight with those. who does not dance to their tune, frankly, and, but they

do not succeed, i will still work to ensure that we bring to a logical end all the tasks that society set before us and we set before ourselves in the 19th year, unfortunately, a lot has not been done, a lot has not been done on purpose, and someone will need it to do, that is why i and my colleagues from smart politics will do it, look at the promises, there is again... the sociology of the kyiv international institute of sociology 50% of ukrainians are convinced that president zelensky has not fulfilled any or a minority of his pre-election promises. 18% of respondents answered that zelensky fulfilled most or all of the promises, almost as many believe that he fulfilled about half of the promises, but the most respondents, 50%, explain the failure to fulfill promises by the presence of dishonest, corrupt people in the team the president further, with approximately the same result of 26-32%, there are explanations such as

lack of competent people in his team, full-scale invasion, own inexperience, influence of oligarchs, fewer respondents spoke about personal corruption, influence of other countries, shaking of the opposition situation, unrealistic promises, etc., i.e. but judging by these numbers, it is clear that no matter how the single telethon works there, this is a sign of equality, that non-fulfillment or not completely... to the fulfillment of all pre-election promises of zelensky, and a sign of equality, full-scale invasion, there is no equal sign, that is , people still understand that there is a full-scale invasion, but there are promises made by zelensky, why do you think people do not notice that he did not fulfill any of them or fulfilled only a minority of his pre-election promises promises, well, i think that it is also unfair here, there he fulfilled some promises, he did not fulfill a large number, and here we just need to... sit down, analyze the program and really draw conclusions, what was fulfilled, what was not fulfilled, something was fulfilled under

by name, but not in fact, but the fact that there is 50% they call the team, well, the leader is always responsible for his team, and the president selects his team, any president, including president zelenskyi, by the way, he said that he has a small team, five or six managers, and it seems to me that with a team of five or six managers it is normal to fulfill all the promises that were made. posed is simply impossible, it is not, in this case i am not even criticizing, but objectively, because it is impossible to execute and manage the state in a command of five or six managers, this is a non-working mechanism, this is a non-working system, which sooner or later will cause a global failure, it will not be the problem of the president or his team, it will be a global problem for ukrainian society. and for the ukrainian state, because everyone has their own approach to forming

a team, with whom you work, i, for example, believe that the more smart people around me, the easier it will be for me to work, and the more, the more they will be to strengthen me, but for the president, i think that a different approach is possible, i don't know, every leader you determine for yourself the principle by which you live, someone says ahead, someone says after me, how about... in the current situation it is quite difficult for ukraine, now the government should act, well, the general government, i am not saying whether the opposition is there now, or there those who are part of the monomajority, or those who oppose the monomajority and are not in the opposition, it is clear that the powers of the verkhovna rada have been extended, the powers of the president of ukraine have been prolonged, until the end of the election war there will be neither the president of ukraine nor the verkhovna rada, and so where. this is the balance where power is impossible to change, on the one hand, and on the other hand, that

the government must understand that it can be changed after all, well, you understand what i'm saying, the government must and must be changed sooner or later, but if you ask me a question, is it possible to hold elections today, i believe that no, objectively, if we are talking about the verkhovna rada, there are no questions at all about... powers until the end of martial law, this is clearly written both in the constitution and in other laws. there are various discussions about the president, some believe that he should have transferred his powers to the verkhovna rada. someone thinks that it was necessary to go, i believe that it was necessary to go, get a document in the constitutional court, and moreover, the office was very afraid that there would be some kind of internal mutiny, someone there would take people out into the street, tell them that there is someone there for the present, not real , no, this is not the problem, the problem is another, how it will be perceived abroad, including how it

will affect our international support, if not at all, then okay, well, god forbid that it be so, but i ... always in this regard , i try to insure myself in order to have such do not create problems either for yourself or for the state in which you work, but the government, elections will be possible only when there is a permanent cease -fire, well, that is, the end of the war, victory, there, i do not really believe in a long-term cessation of the conflict there , because i believe that economically it will be very difficult to maintain the situation, because the army will have to be kept in the same direction, but when, for example, stefanchuk spoke to us there, what he was studying, when it was convenient for them, because look, in my position does not change from seats, or from the level of people's support there, i, as in the 22nd, believed that it was impossible to hold elections during hostilities, and

now i believe that it is almost impossible to do so, if you and i are talking about... the authorities, the authorities had a different story, they did as follows: they wanted to hold elections first in the fall of 22, then in the fall of the 23rd, then in the fall of the 20th parliamentary or presidential elections, all, all, all, yes, then, in the fall on the 23rd, then in the spring of the 24th, and now they don't want to hold elections at all ever, they, well, that's why that today is the level of support, that is, you have confirmed data that they are in these periods. were going to be held, well , the deputies also openly talk about it, well, the president did not call me directly with confirmed data, but in the monomajority, it was not hidden, you can ask them, i think they will confirm, and i remember these bravado reports that we will now win the elections, we will enter again with a monomajority, well, okay, and then it didn’t happen as expected, today they

no longer want to hold elections, but what do i care stefanchuk, at one time the chairman of the verkhovna rada, started saying this, he... spoke about the fact that he was studying international experience, how to conduct elections during the war, something was studied in such a way, studied that they had already forgotten, that is, when it was necessary, they studied, and when they already saw that the ratings were not the same, they stopped studying, this is a story about the seat, determines the place of behavior, behavior, but i always had a very simple formula for holding elections for those who want to hold them, if you want to hold them , you take and go to organize... an election the process, for example, at that time i offered them during the time of the fyar, now i can offer new york, but new york is not the same as in the united states of america, in the donetsk region and show how elections should be held there, if they can to survive and win, well, then okay, then the elections can be held, if not, it is more likely, then

it will probably be very difficult to organize this process today, plus the electoral system that exists today does not allow it to be held. er elections in the state in general, because we have so- called open lists, they are tied to territories, well, for example, how to organize the election process there in donetsk region today, there is no way, plus the people who live there, many have moved, we need to work on going to the election process on closed lists, if we are talking about elections, because to return to this system, it is necessary to return the people. to return them to the territories where they lived, lived, plus we have a big problem with those who went abroad, and at the rate that the authorities are doing today, they are trying to cut them off as much as possible so that they never returned to ukraine, i don’t know, but i don’t have an answer to the question of why they do this, because it was an extreme electorate and extreme people who supported

the government, they were ready to vote for them, because they watched the only marathon, where every day they told what... what a good government, they didn't see the level of corruption that happens here, they didn't see other things abroad, still they thought that the government there was good, after they were outlawed, i will repeat once again, i do not want to embarrass anyone now, to get out of the way blow, because they tell me there, you help or support dodgers, no, i'm against those there who run across the border, swim across the yew, it's a bad story, it's a violation of the law, but let's talk. about those who left there 10 years ago, those who paid into the budget, those who have an enterprise here, live there, those who left after the start of the full-scale invasion, they were released by the state, released. the government, those to whom this government, well, let's call things by their names, sold white flowers, gave the opportunity to leave along the way and many other things, well, it wasn't you

who gave such an opportunity, it wasn't me, yes, it was someone who issued such a document, and it's the vertical of power, not mine, not yours, not other journalists, or those who are watching us today , so first of all then let's understand the question of who allowed it, and then, as they say, present to those who left for... so what is happening today is the maximum cutting off of people from returning in ukraine, well, you understand, you can introduce any norms, any laws, but you must understand that if you say that at the age of 17, your child must come to ukraine, be registered and after that we will not release him, then in most cases with a 99% chance this will not happen, you, if you believe that , you are either a fool, or you do it on purpose so that people just say: no, thank you, we will never go there again, now we will find some kind of citizenship of another country, we will live there, or receive, as germany already gives there, other countries europe's

certificate of existence, stay, because it is not a residence permit, yes, and they will continue to be on the territory of these states, plus processes are already taking place to simplify the acquisition of citizenship of other european union countries, and well, we have to... you understand it, see it, and instead of creating conditions for people to return, if not now then after the end of the war, in order to restore the state, they returned with their wealth, their knowledge, their families, because we will have a catastrophic demographic crisis, we already have one, we will have a catastrophic history with people who are ready to work in country and work for the country, because in order to attract people to the public sector, to the recovery sector, it will be necessary to make such a frantic effort that today

it is even difficult for me to evaluate it, we may know, and once a blogger, i heard, he said that we may win the war but lose the country, and every day i remember his words more and more, you know, i'm going to ask you a question that maybe someone is already asking you. during the war, but you were removed from your post on the eve of the war, it was in october 21st year, october 7, 2020, a gift was given to you, also the power of the symbolists, in principle, well, look, would the verkhovna rada, under your presidency during the war, have been different than the one we see under ruslan stefanchuk, i think it was b, but not for long, because i tried not to do stupid things even when i was the head of the verkhovna rada, i basically try not to do such things all my life, and recently

a colleague from the parliament came up to me and said: god, what are we voting for, such, such rubbish, we are forced to vote in walls of the verkhovna rada, i say what you know, and i had to add, you don't even understand how much effort was put into preventing this garbage from entering the walls of the verkhovna rada, and you didn't vote for it. but to be honest, many of my colleagues have asked this question, journalists have also asked it, and i understand that i would not dance to the tune, i would still defend common sense and the right things, and for some reason i think that i would also left office, but a little later, and it would have happened more calmly for the authorities, because therefore everything that is not is happening, the best is happening, therefore... from the point of view of preserving the institutionality and independence and adequacy of the verkhovna rada, it seems to me that this is my personal opinion, i would

do more, but history cannot have either, or, or, but and therefore, yes, of a conditional way, that is why there is what is, and therefore it must be. to go further and reach new and new heights and new tasks for yourself, you have already mentioned mobilization, it is now quite an active and lively topic in ukrainian society tck, booking, then the topics are already starting about the need to extend the deadline for updating data, because they do not have time for 60 days, we need 150 days, we said this on the eve of the adoption of the law, that this is not possible, that is, very, very many such things arise that, well... it would be possible in the principle of predicting and saying what it could be, or, for example, the issue of reservations, where some very strange gambling companies arise, or where they

book theirs. employees, and now those who go to reserve immediately receive military summonses, that is, that's all it turns out that this is what they were preparing for this mobilization system, updated, that it does not work as we wanted, no, it does not work at all as it should work, and yes, well, in principle it is possible to get the opposite effect, and already we will get this opposite effect, we see that many people are trying to find some way to solve it anyway. that in the poltava region , there are 30% of the tsk, which are unsuitable people who, according to the vlk, are in the poltava region, apparently went there, because it is difficult to solve the issue here, that is, the system has not changed anyway these tsk and vlk still decide, still try to do something, still this system works, or can we say that this system

was created in order to be this system. and continued to live, well, that is, these are all the changes, they are aimed at the fact that a person who does not have time, starts to bring someone there, he is standing in a queue, he cannot go to the tsk, he has to give it to someone, in the lc, he cannot pass on time from limited fit to fit pass, and this system still goes, goes and it continues to work, well, look, i must have it is beneficial to say that they passed this law so that she would continue to work, no, i don't really believe that, i believe that they... didn't understand what they were voting for and what they were accepting, because when , for example, you know, we started talking about mobilization in the 22nd year, but not such a ridiculous idiotic one that has been adopted now, but because, well, first of all, this is a lie, mobilization has been going on since the beginning of a full-scale invasion, every three months we we continue the president's law on martial law and on mobilization, that is, they all have it the powers were without this law, but

they... everything they could do bad, they did with this law, when in the 22nd year they were told that let's not cut off all the people who come to the ccc on their own, let's prepare them , let's train them so that we have a reserve, so that we have those who can rotate for those units that are already at the front, we don't need it, we've calculated everything, we have people, we don't need anything, i say, well, you... don't know how long the war will go on, let's do it more systematically you come, and they lived in the regime for two or three weeks, and this story, it is like a contagion, how a disease spread through society, why? because when they tell you that sergey, don't worry, we'll be at the border for two or three weeks, we'll be near moscow for another two or three weeks, and there for two or three weeks, well four at the most, and the urals are ours, and you

're sitting in kyiv and you think: so, and there for two months, and the war is over, firstly, i will not have money, firstly, i will live as i lived, thirdly, yes, they are doing without me, why should i go there to serve, why should i prepare, why should i do anything else to do, i will live peacefully, then the following happened, these stories from tsk that we see every day are one side of the coin, the other side of the coin is that people... do not want to fight, yes, we see a lot of people , who don't want to, why, because they don't understand how it will happen when we proposed a system, including rotations, you, part of the time, well, like, for example, it's with the border guards, they have three months each , and there for the armed forces we offered, for example, 6 months, six months, you are on ppd, you can visit your home, you can stay with your relatives, six months, you stand on the northern

border, or on... a shipment, if we take those who are mobilized, there you prepare for three months in the west, three months you stand by, next to with those who know how to fight on the northern border, yes, there are no such heated battles as on the eastern, then you come to the brigades, and i believe that the staffing should not have been more than 50%, that is, 50% of those who already have combat experience and 50% have... maximum, better 1/3 of those who only joined the ranks of the armed forces of ukraine in order to to be told, to be taught, to be sometimes brought to your senses, because you know when they say that one of the scariest things is the first battle, so that someone can take, excuse me, the ear, and sometimes with a kind word to explain what needs to be done and thus save your life. no, no one did it, the system was not built, then brought to the situation.