congratulations too, because it is your day, so very, very carefully, because i want to ask you personally, i also have many friends, including historians, analysts and journalists from donetsk, and since such a holiday is dangerous today, the question, as they say , from the crowd, and where do the matsuks come from, good afternoon, first of all, i also want to join in congratulating the journalists, who during the war were not just nicknames. perform work, and unfortunately, due to russian aggression, are forced to be in life-threatening conditions, and unfortunately, give life regarding your question, yes, i come from the city of donetsk, and accordingly, it is in this context that you asked, i think, in fact, that we are in such a time in ukraine, and over the last 30 years we have repeatedly faced attempts by the authorities to another way of control. the agenda that

exists in the information society, for example, when it was introduced at the end of the 90s under kuchma temnyka and under medvedchuk, then of course it was not some kind of innovation and invention, these are all scenarios from soviet times functioned when there was ot1, ot2, when there were specific topics that need to be considered, how they need to be considered, messages that need to be conveyed to society in a propaganda way and, accordingly, no freedom of speech, in the early 90s we tried to form, under different governments we returned to trying to control it, well today we obviously have, i would say, another iteration of trying to control our agenda, and it has several, i would say, found in our present, you mentioned ukrinform, which has become very loud history, which is suggestive in the return of the prisoners, but here it is definitely worth mentioning that when these prisoners appeared according to the investigations... in the 23rd year, then we also

saw, for example, a story with journalists, independent investigators bihus- information that was monitored on camera for months was filmed, and as of now it is also being investigated, we also remember the attacks on journalist yuri nikolov, who investigates corruption in general , even regional centers were hit with our money, so it is as if such , i would say enough unpleasant bells that concern freedom of speech in general. in our society, and which indicate that the government is trying to control it in one way or another, we can also mention in this context that, for example, the parliamentary tv channel rada, which was created to cover the activities of our verkhovna rada, it has significantly changed, let's say, his broadcasts and now does not look like the parliamentary tv channel, but what can we do at this moment, when we clearly understand, here is the parliamentary media. it

is unique to the media, it is different from all the others, because it should work exclusively for the coverage of the parliament, and it has been turned into a big budget black hole, where millions should go to film production, and from time to time ivanov, petrov, sidarov have to go to the tv channel to make scandals and again enter into some kind of iceland love, that's what we can do with such a thing, because it's one thing to be a public broadcaster, and when there are any. joint publicity, but with such narrow and cunning ways to start a political trick in the form of a television and mount it in a single telethon. to me it seems that it is inappropriate to have state, state media in independent democratic ukraine, because after all, the reform of public broadcasting took place precisely to convert the state broadcaster into the format of a public broadcaster, that is, in 2017, 2016, 2017 this reform took place, which in the end was being prepared for years, at least since the times... in orange orange, and then

the revolution of dignity, accordingly, the tv channel of the rada, it really functioned as just an information channel, which on a permanent basis talked about the parliament, its efforts to essentially turn it into a state broadcaster again, this is something, it seems to me, that society should oppose, yes, that is , it is clear that the signboard has not changed, but in terms of content it will be returned to the state broadcaster, now, for sure, that is probably not it is a very appropriate time in order to - let's say, come out with some active actions in this regard, but we need to remember this, this threat, and at the right time we should ask the question that the rada tv channel should return to the format it was in was thoughtful. when the chekists they once made a system of denunciations, because without it the cheka and the nkvd would not have been able to cope on the scale of a large occupied country, nothing would have happened if there had not been a couple of million denunciations of good citizens, no prisons in... the times

of vasiliev and medvedchuk have not survived to this day , if there were not a large number of matsuks and other characters. what to do with these characters? and i think that... this is really what you are saying, that is, well, this system, it is based not only on those who can lower the blackheads, yes, but also on those loyal, not very conscientious journalists who are good its this temnik, this temnik to use, and actually act according to it, and well, i think that there are two points here, firstly, we saw that now, after all, society reacted in a fairly healthy way, i.e. .. what we can see now from the reports of ukrinform journalists, they did not carry out these temniks, yes, that is, they had a meeting at which they reported to the former ukrinform leadership that we received them, but we consider it censorship, we do not carry them out we will on the other hand, we have, we know

there are a number of examples of commercial channels before a full-scale invasion that worked in the interests of various oligarchs, oligarchic groups, i am also convinced that there were desired and... desired topics, desired and unwanted speakers from political groups that were in opposition to this group of influence, and, accordingly, they used these temniks whether internal or non-internal, vocal or non-vocal. what does society need to do, i think, society needs to develop information hygiene in itself, that is, there is a public broadcaster, and we we know that a public broadcaster, for example, works in the interests of society, that is, it is... a mediator who reports on this or that topic in the interests of society, and there are, for example, conditional media a, media b, which are not mediators, which illuminates the topic, and which is a refractor of this beam in the interests of the customer of information, and accordingly he tries not

to inform society about this or that problem, to influence society in his own interests, maybe even some propaganda, if it is even a state broadcaster, propaganda in in interest the information hygiene of one or another person in power , that is, there will always be unscrupulous actors, and the recipient of information must understand where he gets this information from, understand it well, actually it was mentioned that society should react, but whether can our society today, if it can, in what way react so that it is not that these dark people are completely absent, that... they are not used, journalists of various media do not listen to them, but that the media market itself, itself change the situation with zmi to a more democratic side, i am talking about the same channels that are here and the state ones on the one hand, and on the other

hand, they perform some very strange tasks often, and about the same single marathon, well, look, now, as far as i understand, the kyiv... prosecutor's office is investigating the situation with ekurinform, and i heard the speech of yaroslav yorchyshyn, the chairman of the verkhovna rada committee , he decided to be with us, by the way, and maybe he will just add that, in his opinion, it is appropriate to violate here criminal proceedings on obstruction of journalism activities under article 171, that is, it is really a criminal violation if it took place, if it is proven, and i am convinced that similar, for example, proceedings, if they are proven. to a logical conclusion, they should also become a safeguard for repetition. secondly, for all conscientious journalists, this should be an example, it should not be hushed up. if this mystery has come to you, you need to signal immediately. they are trying to limit my journalistic activity and publicity

will always stand in the way. sergey, you are the head of the analytical department, and this is actually content analysis, and you talked about hygiene. more than one study, and we have from... feedback media media that have certain regulation, certain standards and legislative eyes, you are in second place, or maybe third, because the telegram channel broke out and many telegram channels, and all studies show that it is not the lack of hygiene, but the lack of common sense and the function of the pituitary gland is reduced to zero, the left hemisphere is not knows what he is saying right, because in those studies in... that there is a huge percentage, almost 90% get information from telegram channels, while of those 90%, half of them say: there are lies, there are manipulations, there are fakes, and here is this mental effect of passers-by who poked, cried and

climbed the cactus further, it does not indicate either common sense or informational hygiene, well, this is a topic that is often raised recently, because... it really is information problem in our society, but here you need to understand that, unfortunately, traditional media will always lose telegram, first of all in terms of efficiency, because according to journalistic standards. you need to check certain information from at least two or three sources, if there is no confirmation, then refrain from submitting information, and telegram is really such, i would say, a garbage can where absolutely all rumors are dumped, absolutely all not only rumors, and special manipulations, well, society will read it, well, here it is obviously necessary to look in two ways again obviously, one way is, for example, restrictions. programs in one way or another, at one time we limited russian social networks, we had such an experience, well vkontakte,

vkontakte classmates, in 2017 we got rid of them, and i don’t think anyone is crying a lot about them, as for telegram, there are probably also certain nuances here, but on the other hand, why don't we use other messengers that provide the same, for example, functions as messengers, but they are not a spreader, you say in theory, but people don't want, people sit in telegram channels further and more... the worst thing is the multiplication of lies, because it is fakes that spread the fastest, much faster than real news, and these channels are really multiplying like mushrooms after the rain and people love to read them, but i think, oh well the first way is regulation, the second way is once again media literacy and media information, telling people more about who to trust and how to critically perceive information, well , i don't see another option now. this is very similar to the story we were talking about yesterday, when it is border, front-line friend,

i apologize, who is shelled, shelled, shelled, people make sure that it is easier for our front line, that it is easier for our military, they work for the front, well , not because, because it is the only way to earn money, and then they go to church and just the other day they opened a new church in... this mp, i.e. this is pro-critical thinking, here too, probably, the media should somehow influence it, we have information that the head of the parliamentary committee on issues of freedom of speech, people's deputy yaroslav yurchyshyn, mr. yaroslav, we are glad to welcome you, good afternoon, and congratulations, in the studio there is also serhiy stukanov, the head of the analytical department of the content analysis center, so we will talk at four o'clock, and you know where we stopped at now, we stopped on... the fact that it was ukraine that was supposed to shoot the film "don't look up, don't look up", but it was shot by

some incomprehensible people, because in our country they earn a hryvnia a day in druzkivka, because it is the only income, there is something wash, help something, put something together for the front, but then take these hryvnias and free time to go and open a new church of the moscow order of lenin patriarchate, and this is at the frontline druzhkivka, and this is about schizophrenia or. information hygiene or about stockholm syndrome or other possible psychiatric diseases, we don't know, we serhiy and stokanov haven't gotten to the answer to this question yet, how do you explain it? well, we are evolutionarily very complex, if creatures, so it is very difficult to predict, but in many ways it depends on the fact that for a long time we simply allowed moscow's propaganda to be washed away... our brains, and because of that , a lot of stereotypes and stereotypes were deposited there, which

simply need time to overcome, i remember a little more than 20 years ago, when i moved to kyiv, i could not imagine that we would leave stepan bandera avenue there to roman shukhevych street, but it happened, happened and is happening, unfortunately, at a very high price, well, it's important here. of independent media, the importance of actually presenting a real full information picture, and not keeping information lagoons or some warm government baths there and allowing again, russian propaganda will continue to take root, because the moscow order of lenin, as you say, an agent network under the cover of the church, is actually about the possibility of the enemy. on our territory, most importantly in the minds and souls of our citizens. yes, i am asking

you now, and serhiy will also tell you, but what about, for example, now, when we have seen all this not in theoretical models, but in practice, i am asking you first, mr. yaroslav, because there are those sitting next to you who should have been convicted, and we should have said which sentence of the court, which article about treason or other deliberate acts of sabotage, and they are sitting. nearby is called, for example, opzh, that's how the party of regions was renamed at one time, and nothing, they are next to you in the session hall, how can we journalists be next to others. ma matsuks and other shepherds? well, in relation to the fact that there is no more opzhz, it will ban the outfit. and legally, we have basically taken the first step, why not take the second step? because there are also criminal

proceedings against some of these opzhzeshniks, why were they not mechanistically removed from work, and we cannot deprive the mandate does not yet have a sentence in a criminal case that has entered into force, but it is quite realistic, due to the decision of the regulatory committee to take away, forbid attending meetings of the parliament there, why this is not done, this question is rather, probably, to the majority and the lack of votes for various strange uh, let's say, legislative initiatives, yes, but with regard to matsuk-foot soldiers, well, first of all... here is a very important point, this is not a political issue, this is your question, a journalistic one, that is, as ethical standards , handshake, in principle, that people who lost their, their, their good name, did not get into the media, well at least

respectable media, and remained there in tabloids or in telegram channels, well... this is, in principle , more for the journalistic community, and i i remember how the movement without censorship was formed, when in fact the owners of commercial media fell under power, and how it saved ukrainian democracy, i am convinced that the path of self-organization, raising standards, is the path that should be followed, it is not state, it's a process, it's very hybrid there was an option when uncensored football began. no more corruption, no more censorship , the leshchenkos ran, and the other hires, and that's why it somehow turns out like this, serhiy, as for the deputies, maybe the regulatory committee, criminal proceedings, then there will be a court, we often say that liars and all sorts of salami and skabeevs will be caught to the tribunal, but they should be tried, so why should russian liars be tried, ours should be subject to ethical

obstruction, give a hand there, sit in the same row. at the press conference or to leave it, it's a kind of double standard shock therapy, in one fell swoop to take, cut off, do, no matter how painful, but to get rid of all this once and for all and the dogs, fakes and work of our ukrainian people, maybe criminal proceedings, i think, look, i think, the first thing is that not everything is in order with us, even with the institute of reputation, because we at... indeed , we have repeatedly seen how these or that blacklists, who at a certain stage of their lives tarnished themselves, then incarnated, reincarnated into others media people are quite influential, and society is about it i forgot that their biography, their history was not so cloudless, for example, some journalists from medvedchuk's tv channels are now quite normal,

do you remember vasya balabanov, who went to the bank, who behaved with murayev, made streams from shareem, now... an absolutely reliable face of ukrainian journalists, that is, journalists who worked on the channels of murayev or rabinovych or medvedchuk, they, some of them, yes, some of them, they may have waited, they may not have waited, they, let's say, are fine they feel, well, even on tv channels, i would said, oligarchic, the same 1+1, which was by no means objective, let's say, frankly, before the full-scale invasion of the latter. loved dubinsky's programs, yes, that is , and actually these journalists, some of them, they managed to express in their biography and now they feel good, so i can't even say that everything is fine with the institute of reputation in the journalistic environment, maybe after all, then the codes should work as codes, so here i think, look, our society is a bit traumatized,

we are afraid of pressure on journalists, yes, that is, in unfortunately, there have been murders of journalists in our history, we remember. heorhiy gongadze, but he was not the only one like that, and in our country we constantly talk about the fact that there public law enforcement agencies can put pressure on journalists, so obviously this is such a fine line, to which our society is not sure what it is ready for, but the parliamentary committee probably has the answer, how not to cross this line and that on the one hand the law works, and on the other hand there is no under the cover of codes, and massacre or not to run after journalists to punish them with protection homeland in the form of a summons, mr. yaroslav, what do you say, how not to cross this border? here is a very important point: in our legislation, there are articles that protect journalistic activity on the one hand, but there is also a definition of collaborationism, and in principle,

some of the people you mention, well, do they completely fall under this definition, unfortunately, not all, we do not have a definition of propaganda, and accordingly there is no possibility, if it were, to be held responsible for such activity, and here is a difficult... moment, because we need to define ourselves with the journalistic community, and how to distinguish between information and disinformation, because freedom of speech and freedom of lies are two big differences, elections in the united states, constant attacks on us, on the baltic countries, this clearly shows in which direction we are now we work, mainly in disinformation, in propaganda, especially in social networks, an active role is played by synthetics, i.e. all these bots, fake accounts, yes, on which one... the mouth is included there and already legalizing what synthetics have worked on, that is how to define this moment of syntheticity and

connect it with propaganda activity, now we are actively looking for mechanisms in this direction so as not to cross this limit, well, if any weapon there depends on who holds it, we can do a perfect mechanism for countering propaganda, but... it will be used against political opponents, but information and propaganda, you are currently working on mechanisms on this border, but you actually said correctly that we have an article on collaborationism, and here we want some to understand the logic, if diana panchenko, a black-faced supporter of the civil war, flees to the occupied territory, an article is applied, a criminal case is opened, the sbu is looking for her, absolutely identical messages from e. di arditsa, who is hiding under the name max nazarov, he is fine, he sent the same messages here, he just didn’t run away, and this article no longer applies to him, it turns out

that there is an article, but the standards are double, but the standards are not double, because you quite reasonably criticized diana panchenko for the action, and not for the statement itself was persecuted, that is, if she had not gone to the occupied territories, she would not have started making excuses there. war, most likely there would be the same complex system, there is also podioridi, if there are proceedings, there is work, there is blocking of his channels, but there is a very clear limit, and, that is, not for the content of diana panchenko, in principle they try now to prosecute the content, there is more of an argument that it really has grounds, that's why i'm actually talking about the fact that we need to try to distinguish infaga. information and disinformation, so that we can also work on those who have not escaped yet, as soon as we have such a thing, and something i predict that there will be a large turnout, yaroslav, thank you for

participating in our broadcast, yaroslav yurchysh, people's deputy of ukraine, chairman of the verkhovna rada committee on freedom of speech, and we have literally 40 seconds left, mr. serhiy, so the summary is short, i think that the best summary of the journalist's day will be to once again pay tribute to our colleagues. which despite everything, despite the difficulties, despite, maybe the pressure that the authorities are trying to exert, but they perform their work qualitatively and convey true information to society. respect to you, dear colleagues, including you, dear friends, may journalism in ukraine develop and be democratic and free. yes, and i would very much like your words, and the words of yaroslav yurchyshyn, about the great exit of collaborators from the profession to take place, if only for the consequences of everything. to what we have experienced in these years and what trials we still have to endure. serhiy stukanov, head of the analytical department of the content analysis center was with us,

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