greetings, this is svoboda live and my name is iryna sysak, fighter jets from france, a new aid package from the us and the construction of a factory from a french manufacturer of institutions. caesar in ukraine, these are just some of the results of the ukrainian president's visit to france. volodymyr zelenskyi's talks with french president emmanuel macron in the elysee palace are still ahead. our colleague olena abramovich worked in normandy and paris these days and is now in direct contact with us. congratulations, elena. please tell me the main thing. yes, congratulations irina, i will start with an emotional moment that spread throughout the world. media yesterday evening, volodymyr

zelensky was at a large international ceremony in normandy to mark the 80th anniversary of the landing of american and allied troops, which helped liberate france from german occupation in world war ii. and so at this ceremony there were old veterans, and the participants of that operation were already 100 years old, they were introduced to world leaders, and when it was the ukrainian president's turn, the veteran wanted to kiss his hand, that's how it looked. you save people no, it was you who saved europe, journalists in normandy shouted at zelensky the question of whether he expects one day the landing of western troops in ukraine, as it happened 80 years ago in normandy, he replied that he hopes for it, although today i am speaking in paris. .. che

in front of the french parliament, said that ukraine needs to be given more weapons, and actually long-range ones, so that they do not have to land troops later. can putin win this battle? no, no, because you and i have no right, no right to lose. can this war die out on lines that are now? no, because there are no lines for evil, what 80 years ago, what... what now, and if someone tries to draw temporal lines himself, it will only give a pause before another war. last week, the western media assumed that the french president could announce the sending of military instructors to ukraine precisely during the commemoration of this anniversary of the landing of troops in normandy, but the day before emmanuel macron said that he would coordinate this issue with his allies, and this is an important moment, because for...

the introduction of troops unilaterally paris does not formally need nato's permission, but a collective decision can already mean the entry of the alliance into war, and germany, for example, and the united states are categorically against it. so far, macron has announced the provision of fighter jets. we are going to start a new cooperation and announce the supply of french mirage 2005 fighter jets, which will allow ukraine to defend its land and airspace. and so, starting tomorrow. today we are going to launch a program to train pilots and transfer these aircraft. exactly how many planes will convey to france how many pilots it will train and when exactly, macron did not specify, but according to him , pilots will be trained on french territory, as well as a brigade of 4,500 ukrainian soldiers. according to macron, there is currently no french instructor in ukraine. another important meeting of volodymyr zelenskyy was with american president joe biden. biden announced a new... aid package worth 225 million dollars,

in fact, this is a part of this big package, for more than 60 billion, and for delays, which the american president drank today. i sorry for the weeks when i didn't know what was going on with the funding and because we had trouble because of some of our very conservative members in voting on a bill that we had to pass that had money in it. but we finally did and since then, including today, i have announced six significant funding packages. the united states and ukraine are now negotiating security guarantees from the united states. previously, zmi wrote that these will be the strongest guarantees compared to all other similar bilateral guarantees agreements, they will sign them most likely during the next bilateral meeting between biden and

zelensky , it should take place in italy joe biden announced with volodymyr zelensky, it will amount to 225 million dollars, in it, as reported by the media, there will be missiles and ammunition for the hymers stinger missiles, we will talk about this further with ivan kyrychevsky. an expert defense express military portal. ivan, good evening, i congratulate you. good evening. let's start with the new aid package that joe biden announced during his meeting today with president zelensky, as i mentioned in france. the package is worth 225 million dollars and will include

ammunition for hymers, rockets, stinger, javelins, mortar and artillery shells. how do you rate this package? well, let's say that if there were only missiles to the hauk. because the most important thing, in my opinion, is given there, if we take the situation with a critical one infrastructure, then even there the most important thing is missiles up to 23 havoc complexes, which can shoot down, at least subsonic cruise missiles and rockets, but roughly speaking, if it were only these things, it’s all the same, it’s all the same, it would be a very valuable package, if we talk more in detail, then there was even a strange and specific story that the pentagon decided in this case to lay out even quantitative indicators. this package, that is, not only the cost of the aid, but also what is transferred there, before the official announcement that in principle, it turned out quite strange, because lately the pentagon had not disclosed this quantitative nomenclature at all, there they decided to show at the same time that these m113 brand representatives are given somewhere like this, well, for

two mechs or even for six mechanized battalions in our state, because there are 200 cars, well, why are these numbers open in your opinion this time, well, obviously just... maybe the argument for the negotiations was what was supposed to take place there or took place there between zelenskyi and biden, so let’s say so, if there was still talk there just about some there the current needs of closing the front, well , shells are such consumables, unfortunately, that we need constantly and in very large quantities, armored personnel carriers too, and even ammunition for the hymars, there was a figure, in my opinion, from the rend corporation, what do we need for this, for this year, purely for defense, 800 such ots will be needed... to hymers, if we proceed to offensive actions there, then all 25 00, despite the fact that only next year the us military industry will be able to make a maximum of 11 00, that is, you know, if at first glance everything is really worth its weight in gold, and considering the fact that there are rockets to hawks, in fact, it’s just a lie, and

what kind of missiles are these, you mention them as a great advantage, what makes them special, please explain, well, because what kind of... missiles for medium-range complexes , which allow you to shoot down either shaheds themselves or subsonic cruise missiles, these are old complexes, the missiles are old for them, accordingly, no one there wringing their hands in the west will ask the question, my god, how is it so old, old there or cheap shoot down a russian drone with a very expensive anti-aircraft missile, there the missiles are the same as if they were there, first of all , to be written off or shot down, but secondly, they still have the appropriate combat power, so it is good that they are given to us, just to shoot them down, as far as... the package will cover the shortage in the ukrainian army, you already mentioned that there is a constant need for shells, is there any way to close this shortage with this package? you know, i suggest, in principle , with regard to any aid package, even if the united states suddenly decides to pour in 20 billions at once, not to raise the question

of whether it will be enough or not, because the east the answer will be sad, it will not be enough, for us, if we take the current needs, you know, to close them state by state, it is necessary to literally strip the us army there of tanks, shells, supplies, roughly speaking, well, give all their property that they have now everything to us, leave the us army literally to the holoibos, and it still won’t be enough for us, but the paradox is that even if we literally take away the resources of russia and china, it won’t be quite enough for our needs, so in in this case, it is not necessary to measure in the style: "oh they gave, well they gave not enough, in this case you just have to focus on the fact, it's good that they gave, because there is an alternative of not getting anything at all and at the same time forgetting that... let's put it this way, quite often our soldiers at the front have to to fight with maxim machine guns, which there remember the second world war, but if we take such a bar that the minimum is that we fight even when we are maxim, and the maximum is that we constantly need a lot of things, then any package of military aid from the usa , on the one hand

he is not able to cover all our requests, but on the other hand, he is still precious, well, because there are things that are still needed for yesterday, then i want to talk to you about military aid from france, the day before... stated that france will provide ukraine with modernized mirage fighters 2005. what kind of aircraft is this, can you tell me what it is for? let's put it this way, if at the moment... then there would already be an official announcement on the planes promised by macron, what kind of planes, in what quantities, it would somehow be easier, so it turns out, we will be with you, well, trying to literally guess with a finger in the sky that these should be such at all, well , because taking into account the fact that there is a very large scattering of options for the french only for these mirages 20, it somehow becomes wildly inconvenient, especially since if one the same option can have different functionality for the french air force and for the export air force, well, as an illustration. hmm for some reason, let's say this, it is mentioned that macron spoke specifically about the mirage 200 dash5 in half of the sources, in other

sources that it is simply about the mirage 2000, and there, why is it important that if, the mirage 20035 in the french air force cannot carry scalp missiles, but the mirage 2000 tiri5 in the greek air force can carry just scalp missiles, but even if we assume that they will give us, well, the mirage 2000 is, you know, in the basic configuration, which , well, is more under fighter missions, then... then there is the provision of air defense, well, all the same, this is a good aircraft, which, well , first of all, for the protection of critical infrastructure precisely in the rear areas, there it is conditionally west of the center of ukraine to shoot down subsonic missiles or the same martyrs, well, because in general, we have it the problem is, we need more planes, well, and secondly, even if we take the minimum equipment, well, if we have sub-soviet planes with hummer bombs, french controlled ones, then you know, somehow french bombs are still better dropped from french planes, if only for the effect. more, but if suddenly there, as part of some of

macron's political preferences, they give us mirage 2000 planes that can carry scalp missiles, then this opens up a lot of interesting prospects, well , apart from the fact that if the delivery of french democracy by the corresponding russian object, so at the same time it turns out that we have su-24 aircraft released in theory, yes, which could be given for the pitaurus upgrade and , accordingly, at least one argument why scholz does not need to be shaken... the taurus is also removed , that is, as i understood, these planes are suitable for the defense forces, because earlier the former spokesman of the air force, yuriy ignad , called this plane an outdated model for ukrainian aviation, saying that the f16 is a priority, so the question is whether this plane or this version is suitable for the armed forces , or it depends whether or not 2000 or just 2004 is going to be outdated or not, in your opinion, you know, i still remember his rant. a quote for one of the publications, which are mirages, as much as possible, but who else would know that, let's put it

this way, in our case we have to rely on maximalist wishes, well, maximalist wishes look like f16, block 70, aka viper, but there the queue is scheduled for after 2035, seriously, well, because a plane under commercial contracts and there is a dozen worth a billion dollars, well, of course, you can dream how much whatever, give us more in 16, and let's say this, and in this case there is something that did not bother us, that with all the desire to fly the latest f16, we will fly f16 produced there in the 80s and 90s in european factories , he was not embarrassed by the six, again, if we talk about , you know, some desirable and real, to whom , let’s say so, well, let’s simplify the presentation in this way, you can take the maximum bar of desire, you have to push back from what, let’s say so , the least powerful, which is currently proven our pilots could fly, provide air defense, it could 20... 9 ub, well, training fighter, which literally has no radar. structurally, the soviet designers

did not foresee, accordingly, in theory, such an aircraft, training combat, it can even shoot down air targets there in the rear areas, but for this you have to literally visually see a rocket or a cruise missile. of course, before that, a lot of commentators said that, oh, the mirage 2000, it’s somehow not like that, to lead against russian planes air combat, it is not suitable and the like, but the nuance is that the french did not create it for this, they created it just... strike missions were created with the same success, you can ask the question: why is the su-24 a bad bomber, what are we we don’t shoot down air targets on it, so what, you can also hang an r60, an air-to-air missile, well, it just shows at the same time, if, you know, this, let’s say, there is another important point here, for us , in fact, here are the western allies, understanding about the fact that yes, we need objectively 200 combat aircraft, we were offered this option with several types of aircraft at the beginning of 2023, if, let's say, we would take a more constructive position, well, there could already be british gripens and eurofighters, which

the british themselves do not need, well, they live well , and the same mirages are in 16, well, we here, let’s say so, even at the level of the official course have steamed up, no, give us only in 16, accordingly, we have that a year and a half has passed, well, we are still waiting for f16, well, i think that if we need to stop a little with a course, so that you see something old, you know, it is good that in this case, that at the same time these mirages are handed to us as before... well, because even used mirages sometimes france manages to sell in such a way that, well, for the price, you will be as guilty as the earth collective farm, of course there may still be people who ask the question that with the same success, let's say... this is how you can buy old airplanes somewhere, well, there is one more nuance, different, to put it briefly, different specialized analytical agencies, claim that we tried to buy planes in some third countries warsaw standard, but, judging by everything, russian intelligence was able to prevent this, so you know, we are not in the situation where we can sort out that some plane is bad, some is good, give us a better good one, we are in that situation where we

planes are needed for yesterday, if he can fly and bomb, everything is fine, let's go. you say that we have been waiting for the f-16 for a year and a half, and these planes, do you think, will be faster from france, do you think? well, in theory, that is, you just need to train the pilots, which is also promising to do macron, well, you know, in theory there could be different terms, because if macron declared about six months, and maybe these six months can be counted only there from today, but well, these same beautiful epic, this beautiful epic quote, what merages, well, as much as possible, it arose against the background of the fact that in... the french media there were making various reports, saying that somewhere there our pilots in france are in the chat using the mirage 2000, so you know, if one side immediately wanted to some such pessimistic level that they say you have to wait at least six months, and maybe there if we didn't have to wait, and our official spokesmen were nervous for a reason, because rather not because they didn't want to get some planes there, but

maybe because something came out ahead of time. thank you, ivan, it was ivan kyrychevsky, an expert on the military portal. fens express, thank you, and about the results of volodymyr zelenskyi's visit to france, about his meeting with us president joe biden and with french president emmanuel macron, we will now talk with maria zolkina, head of the regional security and conflict research of the democratic initiatives foundation named after ilko kuchariv. good evening to you, i congratulate you. mrs. maria, please tell me what is for ukraine? does participation in this meeting on the occasion of the 80th anniversary of the landing of allied troops in normandy mean at all, what is it symbolic of? well, of course, it is symbolic of the fact that ukraine expects that it will not be the only country that will fight against russia, although today there is no question at all about the participation of other countries, contingents of other countries in the war directly with the russian army on

territory of ukraine, but in one way or another ukraine promotes the idea and finds, for example, partial support. president macron wants everything to start with trainings, then military personnel of individual countries of the european union and nato may appear in different capacities over time directly in ukraine, that is , of course there is symbolism in this, but in my opinion the purpose of the visit was actually something another and more ambitious. by the way, observers who followed the events in normandy generally had the impression that ukraine was there yesterday in... the center of attention, do you think this impression is wrong? i would not say that ukraine was in the center of attention, at least if you look at international news about it, of course there were some such shots that directly attracted attention, but the assessment in principle that it was, i would not say that it

such coverage of events was ukrainian-centric, rather simply because there was enough'. the high level of the meeting this time on the sidelines of this event itself, in particular with biden, with macron and a speech directly in parliament, the french, in this way, really managed to organize a sufficiently rich visit for the ukrainian president. today , presidents zelenskyi and biden already held talks in paris, what was agreed upon by the leaders of ukraine and the usa, can we talk now about the results of the meeting and what they are, if we can... i would consider this meeting , first of all, as a preparation for the global peace summit , which will take place in a week, and we know that there are a number of problems, in particular , a big problem for ukraine is that president biden himself will not be at this meeting, and it is perceived directly as a political decision on the part of washington, since even

physically biden will be very close next week in italy to the venue. summit in switzerland, and i think it's more related, this meeting, it was related to that, so it's more about setting the clocks, why and how, we know that the position of the united states over the last few weeks became more direct, in particular in the issue of the upcoming washington nato summit, in the issue of how to exit ukraine from the current situation on the battlefield, when it is obvious that ukraine's allies, partners of ukraine, including the united states is not ready to provide such a volume of support that would be sufficient to defeat the russian army and liberate the occupied territories of ukraine, these are a few issues, nato membership in... biden's participation and in general, the united states' view of the global peace summit, and the third strategy towards russia in general. i think these are the three critical points that now

largely divide the view from kyiv on how to act in this war with russia, and what solutions should be adopted, and how it is viewed in washington, because there are disagreements, and i think this meeting, its main result was actually to talk about it, and not about... to hear assurances that support will be to be provided to ukraine in the future. well, but we didn't hear any statements after that. what could have remained behind the closed doors of this meeting between biden and zelensky? perhaps, i think, behind closed doors, i think there was clearly a repeated message that ukraine should not postpone the issue of receiving an invitation to nato at the washington summit, because last year, such a sufficiently provocative, assertive position of ukraine and president zelensky himself, it caused these... a series of conflicts, actually behind the scenes of the vilnius summit, when it was obvious that ukraine was not ready to include the invitation in the communique of the summit at its request, but at the same time

, ukraine pressed to the last and did it publicly, and then the problems were actually not only between kyiv and washington, but actually also between the eastern flank of nato, in particular poland, lithuania, which supported ukraine in this and they used their diplomatic arsenal, but they did not achieve anything from the position of washington and berlin, but in order to prevent such scenarios, i think this is definitely not a topic for public conversations and not for public statements. and the second point is to actually explain what is happening with the topic of the global peace summit, because according to the documents that ukrainian journalists received, the amendments that are being made to the final communiqué by other participants of the summit directly contradict what ukraine is so... . left this summit organized, in particular, there appears the idea and position that other formulas for peace or the approach to peace should be considered, and we

know that the global peace summit is actually for the purpose of leveling other proposals, focusing specifically on the ukrainian 10 steps, and the second point is about the organization of the second peace summit, because the position of the americans, the american administration, is to continue to support ukraine in doses, but at the same time... to analyze the possibility of starting negotiations with the russian federation, and so on in fact, the prospect of a second summit, at which some or some representatives of russia may appear, is actually something that is still not publicly discussed, but could definitely be the subject of closed-door negotiations between ukraine and the united states. you also mentioned the global peace summit and the communique that will be issued after this summit on the three points that remain from this peace formula. president zelenskyi. the day before, by the way, dmytro kuleba, minister of foreign affairs, denied this information and explained that not everything is so bad, and the summit will be successful for ukraine, but do

we understand why ukraine agreed to reduce these items, or can you explain? well, the fact that there are three instead of 10 points was really a conscious position, because in order to attract as many countries as possible from latin america, africa, asia, for this it was necessary to exclude some issues on which these. .. countries do not support us, and this very peace formula of the zelenskyi presidency is like a menu, as the representatives of the authorities themselves called it, where you can seek compromise and support from other states on the world stage on separate points, not necessarily on all ten, that is , three out of ten, it was deliberate, but the fact that there is now a proposal of invitations to directly mention that russia will be invited to the next such summit, about the fact that not only ... the ukrainian peace formula, but also other proposals can be considered, this is dangerous for ukraine, because we remember that there were proposals from china and brazil,

there are also from representatives of african states under the weight of steam, and they are all different, and russia i am interested in the fact that there should be a dozen such proposals, of which there is not a single priority, and it is necessary to come up with something average and cloudy. to catch, so to speak, something that will be beneficial to russia, this is the goal of russia, therefore , the danger for us lies precisely in this, and until the final document is made public , actually according to the results of the summit, we will see that these points are not there, i would did not say that this risk was removed. and why was it important for ukraine to hold this summit right now, given the difficult situation on the battlefield, including why there was such a rush to conducting? well, we were in a hurry. i wouldn't even say that they were in a hurry, because the idea of ​​holding this summit in the 24th year was already being discussed since last year, in fact, that is, this idea was voiced back in the 23rd year, and why?

that's why, well, in my opinion, the logic of the ukrainian and mfa and the president's office was that precisely because of the lack of opportunities to break through the russian line, the russian defense, problems with maintaining one's own defense, in some areas, in particular in the context of the recent events in kharkiv region, exactly because of this, the idea was to make it as loud as possible, to collect as much as possible. the number of countries to show that if negotiations do begin, or if any talks about the possibility of these negotiations are put on the international agenda, then it should take place within the framework in which ukraine sees it, which conflict resolution ukraine sees in accordance with the norms of international law and according to the un charter, not with the general principles, not with the general declarations, so it seemed to me like a certain

security cushion. to start the process to set clear markers, which should fundamentally be included in the negotiations on the negotiations, otherwise a situation may arise when the subject of negotiations is not necessarily direct, absolutely not necessarily direct with the russian federation, but the subject of negotiations on the end of the war will not be the ukrainian vision, but will be , for example, some kind of hybrid between all those several n who were already the most active in their plan, of course, of all the players who presented it, china is promoting it. you mentioned that joe biden will not be attending the global peace summit, which will be held in switzerland, and why, why the american president did not show a desire to come, but sent the vice president. how can this political step be explained? i have, i only have an assumption, which is confirmed, for me as an analyst, by a number of other

actions. in the united states for the past few months, if there is already talk in the air , so to speak, the topic of the possible beginning of probing for some kind of cessation of active hostilities has been flying. this does not indicate a political agreement with russia federation, but about the cessation of active hostilities, about an attempt to cease fire, about this even behind closed doors. they speak openly, more cautiously in the public space, but also this topic is already being discussed more actively than now, and let us imagine that this, against the background of possible preparations for such conversations or for such negotiations, is already certain, it cannot be afforded by the american the president, cannot afford to come and without appeal with his presence to support that peace formula in

which everything is very clear... rigid, in which it is about the mandatory and immediate withdrawal of the russian contingent, about the restoration of the territorial integrity of ukraine, because if the conversation turns to a ceasefire, no matter how absurd it may seem from the ukrainian point of view, but it is not so absurd from the american point of view, then how in this situation can you insist on absolutely all absolutely all points of this form. of peace, although only three will be discussed directly at the summit. that is , you are assuming whether i understood you correctly or not today, behind closed doors, joe biden could persuade volodymyr zelenskyi to make concessions, i heard you correctly, to ask, at least to ask about the situation on the battlefield and whether ukraine should think about one of the possible scenarios, as one of the possible scenarios, an attempt to organize stabilization.

the front line by a certain not indirect agreement on a situational ceasefire, because in american circles, in particular among american analysts, this idea is heard enough, quite actively already, and this actually not the last meeting between president zelenskyi and biden, before next week they will have another meeting at the group of seven summit, and a bilateral security agreement will probably be signed there, what are the prospects for this meeting and this agreement? this agreement will definitely not be any alternative to nato membership, which is not on the agenda, this is another very important recent statement in biden's interview a few days ago, and these are pieces of the same picture. on the one hand, no drastic measures are taken in terms of providing ukraine with real ones security guarantees, because the bilateral agreement will not provide for paper'.