to use the interests of countries, that is , to use all possible ukrainian resources in order to work, including in the chinese direction, we should not let go of this direction, here it is simply necessary to achieve a dialogue with china in other ways, well, that is what concerns the global summit of peace, as the president of switzerland viola amhert says, in the next peace conference... russia can take part, i will quote the president of switzerland. it is clear to us that we will not sign a peace agreement based on the results of the conference. for peace both parties must sit at the negotiating table. russia could be present at a possible next conference, in its opinion, the swiss summit will become the basis for further negotiations. in this situation, viola amhert says that peace must be signed. between the two sides, although in our

understanding, it should not be peace in the classical sense of switzerland, nevertheless there should be capitulation of putin in the current situation, there is a difference, mr. valery, between the fact that russia should, well, capitulate in the current situation , and the two sides should sit down and sign a peace agreement. well, to be honest, i see a different scenario than capitulation, for now... let's be honest, we don't have such factors yet to talk about capitulation, but about the de-occupation of the territory of ukraine and compensation and everything else, it is necessary to stand on this and move on, is it possible to talk about it with putin at the negotiating table, well, i think not, i do not imagine such a situation either from his side or from ours, that is, is it possible to do it? way

, you can, of course, you remember istanbul these grain agreements, but formally there they did not sit at the table behind one, they signed two different agreements, but in fact they made such a multifaceted deal, that is why i think that the mechanisms are there, i am a supporter, or rather i think that this war, if we are not talking about this stage of a large-scale, but long, long war, which may decrease in intensity, it... will not necessarily end with ukrainian-russian negotiations of some kind, as everyone around now wants, if you really create a coalition and put pressure, i don't remember something i'm waiting for negotiations well, history will judge us later, we have to erect a barrier on our existing borders with russia, so that this evil will never enter our territory, and if it wants to try, well... it got in the face again, so what do we do

it has to be done, i want to separate myself from them, maybe it's my emotional wishes, let them live there as they want, just don't come near us. at the very end, very briefly, if possible, a phrase about biden, that he was always against the natovization of ukraine, does this mean that in the near future the invitation ukraine will not join the alliance? i don't know what president biden said, i... i remember that we had statements, we have a charter signed long ago between our countries on strategic partnership, and in joint statements the americans always said that ukraine would in nato, so i think that he spoke in the context of a specific issue, i would not focus on it now, we understand that certain conditions must also be met for this, and it is obvious that this is not ... the statement that could would

stop the future historical process. thank you, mr. valery, thank you for the conversation, it was valery chaly, diplomat, former ambassador of ukraine to the united states of america, chairman of the board of the ukrainian crisis media center. friends, we continue to work on the espresso tv channel, and now we will look at the interim results of our survey. today we ask you about whether you are ready for long-term blackouts. so 19% yes, 81%. no, glory to ukraine, dear tv viewers, on the espresso tv channel, studio zahid program, we will analyze the most important of the called high security international policy. our guests today are matthew bryza. and oleg rybachuk. our first guest is

matthew bryza, former adviser to the united states secretary of state, former director of european and eurasian affairs at the us national security council. glory to ukraine. mr. ambassador. glory to heroes. well, the key story is the huge diplomatic negotiation circle we are walking on now. we understand that the g7 meetings are to take place, yes? in particular, between the president of the united states biden and president of ukraine zelenskyi. we understand that the g7 will be a key platform for discussing security issues and, at the same time , the so-called swiss peace summit, dedicated to, in particular, is approaching. in how to stop russian aggression, of course, russia and its friendly china will not be there, i would ask you to outline a certain diplomatic-military-political outline of the situation in which ukraine is now. i think that we will see a very strong and unified

support of ukraine at the meeting of the group of seven countries. problems in the west from the point of view maintaining this support for ukraine, primarily concentrated in budapest. will probably come to some package of economic support for ukraine. i hope that there will be progress on the issue of using the profits from frozen russian assets located in brussels and providing this money to ukraine. as for the peace summit in switzerland, it is very important that it obviously takes place without russia. it would certainly be better if china was present, but china chose a very cautious path: to say that china is an ally of russia is... to say nothing. china and russia undoubtedly have common interests in trying to counter the us and its allies. however, given the ongoing discussions between china and russia over natural gas supplies, china is clearly the more powerful partner and is pressuring russia and

gazprom to get a much lower price for russian natural gas than russia wants. therefore, i think that geopolitical forces will be deployed both at the g7 meeting and at the peace summit. in favor of ukraine. yes, well, but on the other hand, we understand that china's position is largely what concerns geopolitical, possibly security issues, it is related to the position of russia, and beijing has voiced what we would not like to hear, in particular, beijing says that in order for the negotiations devoted to russian aggression to be successful, there must be presented and russia, and this is china's position, and that is why china is absent from switzerland at this... summit, even as an observer. what should we do with china's security position? china's position remains the same as before. let's recall when he announced his so-called peace plan for ukraine, the first point was preserving and restoring the territorial

integrity of ukraine, which russia did not like very much. we also know that china and xi jinping later reportedly warned president putin to stop making threats. using nuclear weapons, saying that china is categorically opposed to russia taking such a step. china, by the way, has been considering ukraine as an important trading partner for many years, but, as i have already said, china's deep security interests lie in undermining its leadership the united states and the so-called rules-based international order that the united states actively helped to create, so china will be opposed to the united states, along with its european allies, insisting that ukraine win the war with russia, instead , china will be very happy if the united states and their european allies will continue to be preoccupied with a terrible war in ukraine, while he strengthens his geopolitical position in the middle east,

especially in relation to saudi arabia and central asia. the second, mr. ambassador bryza, i would like to ask you in general about the parameters of the current changes, we understand that... part is public, there are certain resolutions, so it will be at the g7, it will be at the swiss summit, that is, public statements, public handshakes and at the same time part will be non-public , when politicians or representatives of governments will talk about what is called a possible, i emphasize, a possible peace framework, and we understand that most likely after the swiss summit there will be another summit and maybe not one, but the key story is certain parameters. and in one of their own in recent interviews, the president of the united states , joseph biden, has either slandered or hinted, as he says, that in order to ensure the security of ukraine, it is not necessary to join nato, somehow, it is not verbatim, and we understand that there may also be certain i don't know,

soundings, certain probings of such things. so, first of all, i would ask you to outline a potential framework for negotiations. president biden's comments about ukraine's possible membership in nato must be interpreted in the proper context. the first part of this context, as everyone keeps repeating high-ranking us officials, consists. in that the decision made in april 2008 at the bucharest nato summit remains valid. ukraine and georgia will become nato members as soon as it is determined that they have met all the criteria. this is the policy of nato. another part of this important context is that putin is constantly trying to intimidate the us's european allies and break them away from the united states. claiming that the us is acting recklessly in ukraine and is leading the entire alliance into a... war against russia is not true, but putin is using the fear that the us will drag nato into

a war with russia as a way to strengthen its position in russian politics, portraying itself as the savior of russia in a defensive war, which is simply ridiculous, because it is a war of aggression that putin himself dared. in addition, putin is trying to scare european allies into thinking, wow, nato is at war with ukraine, and if this is highlighted by the possibility, or even ... by biden's announcement that ukraine will become a member of nato, then it will feed those fears. so, biden is playing international politics by saying that the us does not insist on membership of ukraine in nato today. he should have said: i don't see that happening right now. he was not careful in his statements, but this is not the first time he has done so. the bottom line is that one should not attach too much importance to his statement. if ukraine. continues to meet the criteria, then after the end of this war, ukraine has a very good

chance of quickly joining nato. yes, these are extremely important signals, but for example, if we talk about the specifics, we understand that the guarantee for those conditions or those parameters to be acceptable for us, this means the liberation of our territories temporarily occupied by the enemy. another point is that the enemy included them in its composition and even voted. well, the so-called voting procedure in the state duma, when we talk about our temporarily occupied territories and we also understand that the rest of the issues there are already auxiliary issues, so to speak, the key story is the territories, and we see that the enemy is only increasing his presence, conducting extremely active hostilities, where do you think putin will now try to pull, is the reality of this the terrible invasion that... started by putin. he started an aggressive war, violating international law and occupying ukrainian

territory. he continues to take steps to legitimize illegal political arrangements in these occupied ukrainian territories, which is a further violation of international law. war is the continuation of politics by other means, so putin uses the war against ukraine to achieve his political goals, including the occupation and integration of these ukrainian territories into the russian federation. no one in europe, the united states or our other allies around the world will ever recognize such actions by russia. ukraine can settle the situation in its favor only by winning on the battlefield. and that is why it is so important that the ukrainian armed forces grow in numbers. the troops fighting on the front lines are exhausted and need rest and rotation. therefore, ukrainians, first of all, men, should join the lavmia. we are in the usa and europe. should provide ukraine with more weapons that it needs, do it on time, and not with such long delays of six months,

as last time, this is unacceptable. we should have done a long time ago what president biden eventually agreed to do, which is to allow ukraine to use the provided weapons to retaliate against russian forces on the territory of the russian federation who are planning or have already launched another attack on ukraine. yes, this is an extremely important point. well, at the same time, we are grateful to the american administration and personally to president joseph biden for his efforts, which he has already demonstrated, when we talk about money in the amount of more than 61 billion, and about weapons, and now we see that the united states will most likely mature to allow the use of american weapons on russian territory, we are not talking about temporarily occupied ukrainian lands, actually on russian territory, this is a lot. an important point, we understand that no one is going to attack lenin's mausoleum with atacamas, in particular

, we are talking about specific military objects that are located near the border, but it is still an extremely important military-psychological decision. in my opinion, this step is long overdue is ripe, it is utterly absurd that president biden has allowed himself to be held back by cold war-era fears that russia might provoke a strategic nuclear confrontation with the united states. because of the war in ukraine. it is clear and absolutely obvious that biden was guided by these fears. putin's threats clearly affected him. and i understand what happened is that secretary of defense general austin, chairman of the joint chiefs of staff general brown and national security advisor jake sullivan came to the same conclusion that i just came to formulated: ukraine must be able to defend itself in the event that russia resumes its attacks on kharkiv from russian territory. according to international law, ukraine should be able to strike russian

military facilities and personnel if they are preparing or have already launched attacks on... the country, striking the ukrainian military or, worst of all, the civilian population in kharkiv i also understand that after secretary of state blinken's last visit to kyiv and his discussions with president zelenskyi and others, he returned to washington, convinced that it was time to go to president biden and tell him that it was time to make a different decision. thank goodness president biden was persuaded and finally agreed to do something that made sense from the beginning. now i believe that what the usa had to press, put the american leadership of nato in a bad light. i was in london last week and spoke to some senior officials there, and it was clear to us that it was foreign secretary david cameron, nato secretary general stoltenberg, and earlier it was done by

french president emmanuel macron. they all seem to have backed president biden into a corner. allow macron. that it is possible that one day french troops may end up on the territory of ukraine, and cameron and stoltenberg emphasize that ukraine should be able to use the weapons we provide against russian forces that are preparing or have already attacked ukraine. if biden continued to resist these important nato allies, us leadership in nato would be under threat questions in the end, he made the right decision, but unfortunately, so much damage was done to the reputation of the united states. the leader of nato, as usual, in poor ukraine, for all these months, while it could not strike military targets in russia. yes, thank you very much, this is an extremely important analysis of what is happening now. on the other hand, you mentioned president macron. i sometimes have the feeling that i'm watching the mtv hit parade, we hear very loud statements, see

very cool videos, but in fact, instead of italian restaurant, then we go somewhere and eat pizza, then... then we would like to get even more, on the other hand, we understand that the realities in our country are quite difficult, and if, for example, we talk about specific bold decisions by president joseph biden, on what we could hope for and what we would have the right to demand, taking into account that the process of negotiations regarding the signing of a security agreement with america is currently underway, and we understand that the key story of filling any agreement with very ... concrete, real things , yes, but we also understand that the war must be ended sooner with our victory. key story how to do it as soon as possible. at this stage, it is important for ukraine to insist that president biden clearly and publicly declare that the goal of the united states is the victory of ukraine, that is, not simply avoiding defeat and not worrying about

escalation on the part of russia. speaking of president macron, in his infamous statement he said that russia should not be humiliated. so, russia is humiliating itself, and we should not care if it is humiliated or not? russia can put an end to its own humiliation by returning to international law and stopping the killing of ukrainian civilians and the destruction of ukraine's energy infrastructure. russia is defeated on the battlefield, and thereby also humiliates itself. therefore , i believe that it is very important that all nato allies, as well as us allies. in australia, south korea, japan and other countries clearly stated that ukraine should win and russia should lose, period. as for what could be included in a us-ukrainian security agreement, i don't know what exactly is being discussed, but it all has proceed from the fact that ukraine must win and be able to permanently prevent russia from

restarting and repeated attacks on ukraine. my former colleagues are now actively working on the details of this. of course, i don't , since ukraine is not yet a member of nato, but i expected guarantees like article five, certainly there would be elements that would include providing advanced american weapons and allowing them to be used on russian territory if necessary to stop and deter further russian attacks. convinced that in the security guarantee will also include some military training. dear mr. ambassador, i agree with you, on the other hand, we understand the key. history is a matter of terms, the terms of the end of the war with our victory, and we understand that now the president of the united states biden is not in the best electoral situation, i for my part... wish him victory, he is predictable and a decent politician, on the other hand, we understand that , that there is also the team of president biden, and there is also the team of one

of the candidates donald trump, well, maybe there is such a feeling that the team president joseph biden is getting ready to pass the baton to donald trump's team saying, well, you said you know how to decide, well, and in a few months, the team... will be required to try to speed up our victory, so how do you feel about this scenario, in general, if we are seriously talking about deadlines, how long do you think the russian aggression against ukraine can last or how quickly our victory is approaching, well, because we understand that the situation on the battlefield looks extremely difficult. a discussion about what will happen to us policy towards ukraine if trump will come to power is the opposite of what you're talking about, it's not that trump's team knows better how to end the war by ensuring the victory of ukraine. no, the concern is the opposite. trump has said he will end the war in one day, which

means he will pressure ukraine to end hostilities. trump, most likely, will not maintain the level of support that was provided to ukraine by the administration of president biden, even despite the fact that the provision of weapons was delayed and there was a ban on the use of these weapons on territory of russia. instinct. will push him to conclude an agreement with putin over the heads and behind the backs not only of the leaders of ukraine, but also of all our european allies. marik's trump policy shows above all that he does not care about nato. he does not like our european allies and went to confrontation with them as soon as he came to power, saying that nato is obsolete. when trump remained in power and the burden of responsibility fell on him to be not only the leader of the most powerful country in the world. but also the most powerful military and political alliance, his behavior has changed somewhat. he was the first president to offer javelin anti-tank missiles to ukraine. thank

god he did, but his rhetoric suggests that he would once again prefer to strike a deal with his much-admired friend, vladimir putin, by forcing ukraine to cease hostilities and cede its territory, which would be in ultimately a complete geostrategic disaster. and for russia itself, i mean it could lead to further conflict between russia and the west, as a result which russia will be completely defeated. thank you very much, mr. ambassador, for this extremely important conversation on the air of the tv channel, i want to remind our tv viewers that matthew bryza, ex-adviser of the secretary of state of the united states, former director for european and eurasian affairs, in the us national security council, was currently working for them. thank you. glory to ukraine. glory to heroes. when you sleep on an uneven surface,

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yatskiv and invited experts based on facts give their assessment and forecast of the development of events. if you want to understand how our today will affect our tomorrow, watch the saturday politics club, every saturday on espresso. and now oleg rybachuk will work on the espresso tv channel, ex-head of the presidential secretariat. yushchenko, former vice prime minister for european integration of ukraine and co-founder of the chesno movement. glory to ukraine, mr. olezh, i congratulate you. glory to the heroes, congratulations. well, june is extremely busy when we talk about conversations, public and private, between the administration of president biden and the administration of president zelensky. the exchange of certain opinions in the public space, and of course, this is all happening on the eve of the big g7 meeting, which will smoothly move

into... the swiss format, where there will be to discuss the peace formula, what is being talked about publicly in your opinion, and what is most important being talked about privately when we talk about certain parameters of the security situation. it should be noted that in such a surge of international activity, in particular, in the schedule of the president of ukraine, two meetings with president biden, then a representative forum in switzerland is expected, we can say how far-reaching he is there, what issues he will solve there, that's another matter question, but as they say about the elections, the turnout there will be quite high, and that's it key story, the swiss peace forum, what issues will be discussed, we understand that three key cases will be discussed there, yes, in particular, they will talk about nuclear security, well, in particular, about the prospects of using or not using nuclear weapons by the chinese and.