troops on the territory of ukraine, but this did not happen, and there was a declaration that a coalition should be created, by the way, i said about this the other day that france is most likely, and it was logical for france, not to go alone, but gather at least a small coalition of two or three countries, possibly a franco-german-polish coalition within the framework of the same weimar tripartite, and then together send instructors to train ukrainian troops in ukraine, especially since france... declared its desire and readiness create, train and equip a brigade of 400.5 ukrainian soldiers, one might say a french brigade, so on the territory of ukraine. are the germans ready to come here together with the french, what do you think of the instructors? and i think that not very much, and i think that it does not depend on the wishes of federal chancellor scholz, i think that everything depends more on how decisions are made in the same.

france, germany and poland. we always, when we look at some decisions that are made in the west, we somehow judge, you know, as if everyone somehow says everything in unison and as if everywhere the same procedures, in reality it is not. if france, let me give you an example, if france, for example, when it provides weapons to ukraine, then a simple decision of the president of the republic is enough for this, for this there is no need for any votes in the parliament, in the national assembly, the president of the republic says, okay, we send , we will mean send in, that's not how it works in germany, chancellor scholz can say that we want to send in weapons, but if the podistach does not agree to this, then it will not happen, but you already mentioned the statement itself macron regarding the ukrainian military training coalition, the transfer of mirage 2000 aircraft, we also mentioned the agreement that zelensky signed with macron, regarding aid to ukraine and the restoration of ukrainian infrastructure there, if i am not mistaken, by... 200 million euros,

do you think this kind of help is enough and can france do more, because we remember how a few months ago macron actually became such a newsmaker regarding the possibility of sending french troops to ukraine, regarding the possibility of some other levels there cooperation, as of now, how does it correlate with those statements that were, well, at least earlier, well, let's be honest. talking about statements, it should be noted here that emmanuel macron did not say that at the end of february 24th , he did not say that we would send troops, he said that such an option should not be ruled out, these are slightly different things, i understand , that the media may have somewhat distorted him at some point in his declaration, but the declaration was such that there is no need, let's say, no need to draw red lines for ourselves, that this this option must also be on the table, as they say, the second thing really. well, with such

a declaration, macron showed a certain leadership and he created this strategic uncertainty, if before this declaration the russians were sure that there would be no, let’s say, any, deployment of western troops in ukraine, then he says that it’s okay, such a decision can be made, the troops can come and in my opinion, they will be deployed in ukraine, training places in any case, so that it does not happen sooner or later. if we talk about aid, it's not 200 million, it's 250 million euros, it's for aid ukrainian infrastructure, especially in matters of energy, it is difficult for me to say how much it is or not, because i am not an expert on unusual issues, i do not know how much it costs to replace certain capacities in order to restore ukrainian energy, but we should also not forget that will be highlighted. for the french organization

of the development agency, which works in ukraine, which will implement projects again from the recovery in ukraine, so after all, it is not 200 million, but 650. in this regard, how will the situation change now in france, as you do you think, after the elections to the european parliament, there will be some political adjustments, if you consider that marine le pen's party can obviously win these elections, well, it's not that... it can win, it will win by a very , very large margin, according to the last poll, which i looked at, it’s 33% give egenblimational, while the pro-presidential majority will get, it seems, 14 or 15, you understand, it’s more than even two times, as you say, the elections to the european parliament, they don’t affect directly and at least immediately on some situation at the national level. of course, it

will be, let's say this, it will be a certain blow to the presidential majority, but on the other hand , everyone understands, from the very beginning ren's theoretical... the power to win from the very beginning, i mean, when the polls started, so there is no surprise here , the surprise can only be that they can gain even more at the time of the elections, it can be unexpected, and what is the general situation now, you mentioned the national level regarding the electoral support of france, in particular through the prism elections to the european parliament, that is , as far as i understand, the situation is somehow plus-minus illogical, or is it possible that the preferences of the french regarding elections to the european parliament and hypothetical elections to the national parliament of france differ after all? well, you understand that if you look, then

again according to the polls in the european elections, 48% of all registered voters in france will vote, this is even less than half, which in his... speech says that society does not consider these elections important for the country, and this is in principle, this is a tradition, always in european elections, the turnout is lower than in national elections, if we talk about the possibility, about the prospects of the next french parliamentary elections, then it is still too early to talk and draw any parallels at all, but it is worth noting that aid to ukraine is not a key issue that worries anyone. the voter, the voter is concerned about rising prices, er, danger, but not in the sense of geopolitical danger, but danger in the country itself, voters are worried about, for example, unresolved issues, migration issues, and therefore voters try to find the easiest way to

solve these issues, and the easiest way is provided, as a rule, by radical left or radical right parties, which give slogans and promise quick and simple solutions, which, as we know, usually do not work, you have pi'. mr. denys, we thank you for your thoughts and your analysis, denys kolesnyk, political commentator, france, was at a recent issue of ukraine magazine, the diary of the deceased paramedic iryna chakyi tsiboh, a story of courage and a firm stand, energy security expert andrian prokip with advice on how to withstand attacks on the power system. the story of ugandan dictator idi amin's ... road to bloody madness, interesting stories and quality analysis with the country at the center of the main events, buy from press outlets. fm halychyna.

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a non-committed view of football. football format every monday at 22:00 on the espresso tv channel. channel espresso and ukrainian. ben presents the project own names with myroslava barchuk. a series of conversations with ukrainian and western intellectuals who analyze and comment on the most relevant social debates. which exactly. the news will analyze the guests of the project this week, and we will find out who will be the guest of the studio this sunday. undoubtedly, the topics will be relevant, the guests - special. proper names with myroslava barchuk. sunday: 17:10 at espresso. sabbatical politclub, live ether, we're back and we have a little over an hour to... to chat with vitaly portnikov on all the topics that are most important

this week. mr. vitaly, you know, i will probably ask you the same question that i asked ihor eisberg, regarding, eisenberg, regarding, regarding biden and his statements, this is what has shaken, very shaken ukrainian society, all of it is very turbulent. discussed, biden stated that, in fact, ukraine may not necessarily join nato, or it does not necessarily have to join nato, about the fact that, in principle, it is possible to guarantee the security of our country, and without participation in the north atlantic alliance, many experts, including respected ones, say that how is it, how is it legally possible, yes. why such a statement by biden, this is his personal opinion, is it inspired by some

certain positions or certain, maybe, as i said, maybe a certain passport of russia, a demonstration of some political position for now, which was, first of all, the president of the united states there are no personal opinions, so if biden says he doesn't see ukraine in nato as a condition of termination. war, this means that this is the position of the united states of america. secondly, president biden told president zelensky during the last visit of the ukrainian leader to washington that the condition for ukraine's accession to nato should be ukrainian victory. but what is a ukrainian victory, this concept is abstract, as we know, in which everyone invests everything he wants. we know what a ukrainian victory is from the point of view of the majority of the ukrainian population, it is an exit to the borders of the 1990s year, about which we have repeatedly said that this is not necessarily the end of the war, but it can be considered a victory, but again it is clear that

if there is no end to the war, then there can be no accession to nato, so by and large , if remember all these conditions and the fact that consensus may be a condition for joining, then by and large nothing has changed, if there is no consensus among the allies and there is no end to the war, then ukraine's chances of joining nato are quite conditional. this may be to some extent a signal to russia that you never you will gain control over ukraine, but you can be content with the fact that ukraine will not join nato. the only problem is that russia will absolutely join nato regardless of ukraine or not. she wants to have it as part of her territory. and that's why, when all the americans tell the russians, ukraine can remain neutral. and by the way, it is worth reminding that this is exactly what putin demanded from the west in advance. attack, this does not stop putin at all, on the contrary, it increases his appetite, shows him that

he is doing everything right, that the west is already is making concessions little by little, and that by and large the real outcome of the situation may be a suspension of the war with guarantees that ukraine does not receive any real security guarantees, when putin will have the desire to end this war, because once again his behavior on petersburg economic forum. showed that he chose for himself the option of prolonging the war for an indefinite period, and now you and i need andrei to understand that there are two options for the development of events, in fact, in the global sense of the word, the first option is that the war is suspended or not is suspended, and ukraine receives some guarantees from nato, let's say there, or security guarantees in general in case of a truce with russia, if this truce can take place at all. or security guarantees for this territory, which at that time will be controlled by the legitimate

ukrainian government, with the fact that all territorially intact ukraine can join nato, there may be options here, or there is another option, also absolutely realistic, which , by the way, we all the time we also speak indirectly when we say that ukraine is turning into a kind of european one israel, what is european israel, well, from a security point of view, it is an effort to increase... the periods of peace and decrease the periods of wars, i have said this many times, you know how to solve the middle east conflict, you have a recipe, i think that he is not there almost nobody, nobody, every american president comes up with his plan that dies with that president's career, and then a new president comes up and comes up with his plan, and by the way, president trump, when he was in charge of the united states, it was a very good plan looked for opportunities for israel's reconciliation with neighboring and non-neighboring arab states, and achieved great success in implementing this plan, remember,

several countries recognized israel and established diplomatic relations with them. among them, such countries as the united arab emirates and morocco have returned to diplomatic relations with israel, and by the way, they now maintain these diplomatic relations, they were not even broken after the events in the gas sector, and before these events israel was getting closer to the diplomatic partners of saudi arabia arabia, it was already simple, you know such a jackpot, and what, it turned out that it did not solve the conflict, that is, it turned out that in fact the conflict was not between israel and... all countries, as it might seem for several decades in a row, but a conflict between israelis and the palestinians, who seemed secondary, i will tell you, now it is unpleasant for the ukrainians, something that they will have to face, if not today, then tomorrow, we have a conflict not with putin, we have a conflict between the ukrainian and russian peoples, and besides time until these two peoples

exist, they are unlikely to be able to find a common language among themselves, so our task is either to obtain security guarantees, which so far seems unlikely, or to agree that our main goal is long periods of peace and short periods of wars, that is, we need to free ourselves from illusions, that we are fighting here, and we will leave this war to our children as something of the past, as some historical fact, as the last meeting, it can be if we join nato, because this is already a conflict between russian. ukrainian peoples, and between russia and the west. if we don't we will join nato, of course, and the children of those who fight, and the grandchildren of those who fight, will fight, die in wars, there will be military cemeteries, there will be fortresses, there will be spending on defense instead of social spending, this will be everyday life, absolutely this, i would say, is trivial, so that even in our own

information tapes , the death of a certain number of servicemen on a line there will not be noticed. that's all it will be, i hope that they will notice, because this is life, but it will not cause surprises, it can also be, we we are just approaching this period, so we need such and such a period to be shortened, so that we have a period of real peace, tranquility, a certain stability, the strengthening of our army, the strengthening of our state, so that we can withstand the next war and that it... . is shorter than this one, but i always say that we have to think in terms of achievements, let's say, the first ukrainian independence has been there for two years, in fact, the second one is already 30, this is an achievement, this great war has been going on for 2.5 years, maybe three. , maybe five, it will be necessary to push back

from his to her term, so that the next war, which, let's say, will begin, whether in 10 years, whether in five, will be... no longer 2.5 years, or three, i don't know how long it will be, but a year , and so on, step by step, this is the future of ukraine in the 21st century, well, an unpleasant future, but there is no other country, and again, we must always tell our western friends that they will have serious problems when such a ukraine exists , because these are migrant crises, demographic issues, resettlement of people to other countries. there are many people in europe will want to live in such a country, some people will want to, they will think that this is their land and they have to protect it, but not all of them, the population of ireland, it is now, you know, the same as it was 100 years ago, it has not increased, but how many irish people live around the world, such will be the fate of the ukrainian people in such a situation, to what extent europe is interested in this, i am not sure, that is, we should

continue to insist on ukrainian membership in nato, not because, as you say, he told us yuriy fedorenko, russian army will come to nato countries, most likely he will not come, why fight for nato. but, in its action, it can cause a serious internal crisis in europe, which can be no more dangerous than war. this must be understood. here the question is that, if we follow the option you are talking about, the question here is that when we do not join nato, but we have these periods, we will... understand what we need help and support on an ongoing basis, we understand that without the weapons of the united states of america, without the weapons of the european countries union in essence. of course, it’s not easy, they are building military factories, look at the military-industrial complex of israel, it’s not socks that need to be produced here, socks can be bought in ukraine of the global south,

which will buy oil in russia, if we talk about jackets that will be produced in europe the majority of the population simply won’t have money, but the shells are not cars, but tanks, not refrigerators, yes, i’m sorry, guns instead of oil, a bad slogan that many who watch us don’t like, but they have to understand that they already live in this and there is nowhere to go from there, moreover, if it looks like this, then the whole of europe will be militarized, because they will feel danger all the time, but look again at the middle east, israel is in danger, but only it alone . that egypt is threatened by danger or saudi arabia or some other countries, but how much money do they spend on the military-industrial complex, it’s just that saudi arabia has a lot of this money,

but they are really busy all the time with the army in local conflicts, they just came out of yemen, when there is even one country that is a security issue for the entire region, it is not easy to live in all other countries, and in european countries, these are our people who will live in european countries, they will serve. in the army, when they receive citizenship, they will experience problems with social security, they will not have a good life, it will not, because the existence of such a ukraine will destabilize europe and turn it into a militarized continent as well. i don't know, i can look for some addresses that we would like to recommend to people who would like to live out the years that are left before some big war in peace and tranquility, no, well, australia, it is already allied with... the united states militarily, it is in a very dangerous region there to the asia-pacific, well, maybe some thailand, but i am also not sure that china

will be such a simple point in the future, that is, we need to sit down and look for some place where we could gather those who would like to live quietly, without being interested in political news and not fearing heart attacks, but such there will be a lot of places, such as the beautiful maldives, and the president, which now prohibits israeli citizens from entering. on the territory of his country, expels indian military personnel, invites chinese ones, and soon the chinese from the maldives will burn somewhere, and they will burn on the maldives, and instead of a resort there will be one bloody bathhouse, this can happen, and by the way, i will interrupt you, the second question , this is what i said about the first question, and now there is the second question, which is how many, if we have such periods, war, peace, war, peace, well conditional peace, how many people will remain. this is also very important, why? because russia has one population, ukraine has a different population, you and i, you and i said last saturday that we have

a catastrophic demographic crisis in ukraine, approximately 28 million people live in ukraine now, i can tell you how many there will be people left to live here, if there will be constant periods like this, somewhere up to 15-20 million, that much will remain. that is, if we are in nato, the population will increase to 35, well, some people will return, will return part of the people, of course, and part of the people, not you, who want such a more or less peaceful life will not leave, but even in the most destroyed countries there is a large number of people who have all left lebanon, no, many have remained, there are people who simply want to live in their own homes, even if they understand that a rocket will fly tomorrow, there are many such people, so approximately 20 million people will remain here in order to... at military factories, serve in the army, raise soldiers and so on will remain mandatory certainly, and these people, by the way, will be try to vote for politicians, how they will try to normalize relations with russia,

that's what is most interesting: the diaspora will be pitted against russia, and the people who will be here will vote for parties of a pro-russian direction, not a pro-russian direction of coexistence, but people, people who will be abroad , will vote for patriotism. and the people who will be here will be furious that some deputies are being imposed on them, who will again condemn them to a confrontation with russia, because they will believe that russia somehow can be negotiated, and it will also be a very interesting thing, when the fate of those people who will stay here will be decided by the people who will stay there, and these people will stand in queues at embassies to vote for those who will not be supported by those , which will remain here, it can also be, it is absolutely real. i think pro-european forces will win in moldova, because people in all capitals of the world, citizens of moldova stand in queues for 20 hours to vote for

maya sanda, and people living in moldova at least. to vote for a certain ihor dadon and then greatly offended that their countrymen impose on them a government which they would never have chosen if they had been given the vote themselves. this is how hocus-pocus can be, you have to remember it, but there is another side of the coin, there are actually people who went abroad, but who were complimentary towards russia, although they most likely will not vote, they will not vote , they will and they will go to the russian consulate, these people will look for russian passports, but there are those too. it is generally normal when we have deal with a state of forty million people recently, then of course there are people of different political views and different identities, even, of course there are, but again, if you absolutely do not perceive ukraine as a state, you see it as some kind of boil for the purposes of russia, like napoleon so

pro-corseco. by the way, your native, one, exactly the same illustration, yes, why will you go to its embassies in this ukraine, who will you vote for, you will forget about this ukraine a month after you leave, well, we already see such people , the truth is, have you seen that a huge number of people who left ukraine abroad, according to sociologists, in general, what percentage, 30% or 40, are not even interested in news from ukraine, i don’t know what is happening here, not just about they left and forgot and take their children to russian clubs and to russian schools, this is also a fact, because they did that when they lived here, well, that is, but we are talking about voters, these people are not voters, and these people who are patriotic and left are voters because they will be very afraid that their countrymen will bring to power those they don't like, and that's what it looks like,

so we're just saying... what we were talking about was the position of the united states of america only, but there's actually not only the united states of america, there is, we know that very well , the position , including that of other nato member states, who also believe that ukraine should not be a member of the north atlantic alliance, there are those too, at the expense of such countries, is there a possibility to convince them in the future? won't they, even if the position is the us, whether they will not become another stage of obstacles for ukraine to be able or not to join the northern part of nato depends on the leading states, these leading states are able to convince otherwise, because these others depend on their support. hungary may oppose ukraine in nato, but orbán knows very well that his nuclear powers are protecting him. if there is a consensus of the nuclear powers, then of course they

will not. protest, they can delay, negotiate, well, we have already seen how it works with sweden and finland, but turkey is a country much more more influential than hungary, and president recep tayyip erdoğan can be said to have squeezed everything he could out of this acceptance of finland and sweden into nato, and he conducted negotiations and signed defense agreements, and the legislation required them to be changed. but no one doubted, indeed, no one doubted that he would still make concessions, that it was just a cycle, no one in the united states, in sweden, in finland doubted that these countries would become members of nato, whatever did that it simply should be such a political process that should actually convince his compatriots in because he is a strong, independent, inviolable, international player, but he

knows perfectly well that he... he was not the head of a country that is part of nato.