serious illnesses, disabilities, that is, we can imagine, in fact, in what conditions the occupiers keep our people there, and in comparison, in what conditions ukraine keeps those russians who came to our land, who are also kept in our specialized centers, to things, if we talk about it, then we know that we need to build a third center right now, that's actually the number. the russian occupiers who are now being held on the territory of ukraine, and we have seen the conditions in which they are being held, most importantly, you know that what we have seen and the fact that they have access to the international committee of the red cross, which actually monitors that, yes, these are conditions corresponding to international humanitarian law, the russian federation did not grant such access, and ukraine also created a special commission to identify the wounded among these people, or the same... yes, those who have chronic

diseases, and such people, according to the conclusion of this commission, can be sent, for example, to the russian federation without these procedures of mutual simultaneous release. russia has not done this, and it does not give the opportunity international red cross full access to all places of detention, and many of these places of detention, they are illegal, especially in the occupied territories. absolutely right here with you. ms. maria, please tell me at what level negotiations between ukraine and russia are often conducted, are there possibly any mediators, well, we know that there are some mediators, yes, is it only the state conducting, or is it some private people, structures lead to return both civilians and military personnel. in fact, it is only state bodies have information, and no one can go there... learn from

outsiders, we know that there are, sometimes there are certain stories, such as a field exchange, for example, but this is all done very secretly, often no one knows about them doesn't know, folks , very often they ask state bodies to join the changes, they believe that they can somehow influence it, but in reality we cannot understand the logic of how exactly these exchanges are carried out and how exactly certain people get into this exchange. we are in media instivi, we often communicate with those freed from captivity and we ask them what influenced your release, did relatives who often talked about you there in social networks help, did some international actions, trips help, and these people, they do not know why they were exchanged, because they say that, for example, i am completely healthy, but the person who sat in the cell with me is already almost disabled, but he was not exchanged, but exchanged... me and they, well, they

do not understand what affects their exchange, nor can we trace why russia does not hand over civilians, why does russia not hand over the seriously wounded, we know that there are still people there who have amputations, there are still a lot of servicemen of the azov brigade who survived the terrorist attack in olenivka, they are still in the territory of either russia or the temporarily occupied territories , and we don’t even know where they are, so we know that both the state and... er, the patronage service of azov and the ridny, they are fighting for their return, they are trying to negotiate their exchange somehow at different levels, but unfortunately , it will soon be like the third anniversary, but none results, and can it be influenced by some such symbolic things for the occupiers, for example, they understand that this is azov, and this is some other structure there, so they hate azov with simply terrible hatred, for example, if it is a different structure, then they are more somehow... they behave differently, do

they possibly have other approaches, they look at social networks there, well, why am i saying this, because you said that there is no understanding why some people can be fired and others cannot, there are some thoughts or maybe some information, but actually, and that sometimes these are really random lists, and because a lot of the snake guys were released in this exchange, and they've been in captivity since the... day one of the full-scale invasion, as well as the national guardsmen who were in the emergency, we know that they were in a very terrible state, psychologically and physically, but why is there such a gap between exchanges, for example, azov has not been exchanged since may 6, 2023, then there was the last omen with the people of azov, just as much... there are a lot of people in polonia

representatives of the 501st marine corps battalion, and they are still in polonia, the last exchange, it was either january 31. if i 'm not mistaken, then one representative of the 501st battalion was fired, and even his relatives did not understand why he was fired, because the 501st battalion is not exchanged, but he was fired, fortunately, but there are still a lot of guys, and we know that there are already the dead from this battalion in captivity, their bodies are returned, but they are not exchanged, and despite the fact that public organizations, and the state, and relatives at various international meetings, and at public and... on the independence square they go out and shout about them everywhere, it has no effect on russia, there are also a lot of servicemen of the 24th brigade named after king danylo, the 56th brigade, so they are not exchanged very much either, why? well, this question is still open, we do not understand why they

are not exchanged there and in general no one knows about their location, but here it is important to understand that there is one more point, they became military personnel. condemn, and we remember this court that she tried to arrange in mariupol, that is, they have this symbolic hatred and attitude towards particularly bright persons, one of them is maksym butkevich, a human rights activist who only in 2018 won the european court of human rights a case against russia, accordingly, as soon as he is captured by them, they simply their media sphere is bursting with stories about how he... is a nazi, a fascist, a propagandist, and in fact, that is, for them, these are especially sacred figures, whom this russian ideological symbolism is so- called, and they directly condemn them, that is , they also want a show in the form of a court, them i want to show that what is punishment

comes to these people, and in such cases, when people have already passed the day and they fall into this system, as, roughly speaking, as criminals for them, no, not as prisoners of war, here they fall into the general system, the general system of control over everything, this is the federal correctional system, and there, for example, even if it is possible, for example, correspondence, and here you do not understand whether it is better or not better, because every time the investigators they say that the court agrees, plead guilty, then you will be exchanged, and we maxim can see that nothing is happening, at least... someone is exchanged after these so-called courts, or is this already the worst option? we do not want to say the worst option, but so far there is not, unfortunately, there has not been such a question, which states facilitate, as mediators

, for the return to ukraine, whether prisoners of war or civilians, but perhaps recently, even russia itself, they... said that these exchanges were supported by the united arab emirates, when on september 21, 2022 there was one of the largest exchanges among the azovians, then the participation directly turkey, because the commanders of azov were transported to turkey, and also, probably, someone can remember, there was an exchange that even ukraine did not know about, it was still there. last year, then hungary took 11 representatives from transcarpathia, they were servicemen of different brigades, but hungary considered them ethnic, as hungarians, although they are representatives of ukraine, citizens of ukraine, and it happened through the orthodox church, and it happened through

the orthodox church , and then there was a lot of indignation, because no one talked about ukraine informed, and we often, when we visit some foreign a... events, we go to the osce there, we try to draw the attention of various representatives of various countries to the fact that we ourselves cannot cope with the return of these people, and we really need some country that will agree to take on this role of some kind of mediator, but for now we still expect that someone will agree to be this kind of mediator, russia must understand that if some country, well, other countries will stand up for our military. and these prisoners are repatriated to that country, this is a guarantee that these people will no longer participate in an armed war, that is , they will no longer return to the battlefield, and we guarantee this, but for russia, our guarantees, the guarantees of some of our international

partners, they are absolutely, that is, here , if i may add, that is, what does it mean that ukraine offers support in the format ukraine concludes a treaty with such a country, and this country should conclude a treaty with russia, that is, it is not just the desire of this country, this country must be, why arab countries are very often here emerge, this country should be of interest to russia, that is... the usa or switzerland, which traditionally acts as such a country between the conflicting parties, russia is rejected. switzerland has signed a treaty with ukraine, but russia has not confirmed switzerland because it considers it an unfriendly country. that is, it should be a politically neutral country that is accepted by russia, not just neutral. that is, austria is a neutral country, it has such a status. the vatican is a neutral country. switzerland also officially has the status of neutral in oona. such countries in europe, which were finland, sweden, now we understand that they have joined nato,

ireland, but ireland too, as well as switzerland, immediately came very clearly on the side of ukraine, that is, it must be a country with which russia is interested , but at the same time, we can be sure that they will be neutral, and not just on the side of russia, so there is qatar, turkey, the arab emirates, all those countries that have. interest from russia, hungary is the same, yes, which we clearly see, politically with russia maintains contact, and here too this moment is very important, that this is a third country, after all, well, there was a situation with hungary that, for example, there were conditions that these soldiers do not return to ukraine, they have families, well, that is, what does it mean that they do not return to ukraine, and this, and these are such details in international humanitarian law, they are also prescribed, and in the end such a third party can... the international committee of the red cross, if it sees that everyone has refused other countries,

the international committee of the red cross can too to become such a third party, well , we do not see such processes yet, they are neutral in all directions. i would also like to talk about certain practical things, because very often our citizens see their relatives and loved ones in so-called propaganda videos, yes. what to do in such a case, if a person saw either a civilian or a prisoner of war, in any video clip, whether it was an official resource of the occupying state, or in some channel, in some social network, that do where apply, that is, first of all, of course, it is easiest to apply to the police, all this information will eventually come into contact with the national... the national information bureau is a special body that appeared in our country,

unfortunately, only in 2022 , maybe in 2014, but in the meantime, and this information, it gets there, but like the media initiative for human rights and the center for civil liberties, we help relatives, we accompany them in all these processes, because it is worth to apply to the coordination headquarters for the treatment of prisoners, it is worth applying to of the international red cross, write a letter to them, because they are the ones who still communicate with the russian side, the national information bureau, and a criminal case is opened, respectively, this is the police and the prosecutor's office, but we understand that a lot people are now moved from their place and so on, then public organizations are ready to accompany, help, in addition, it is very, very important to actually have your own community, many relatives, prisoners, both civilians and marines, residents of azov. they have already grouped themselves and help each other, including if suddenly they see a photo or a video where

it may not be their relative, but a relative of someone with whom they communicate in this community, they, this is the best system of actually finding information from open sources, these are relatives , who are motivated, and that is why this information is exchanged, in addition, it is important to support, in fact, relatives suffer and... no less than those people who are in captivity or in prison, because this is not yet a certainty , you don't know what state your loved one is in, and that's why it's so important for them to support, and here ukraine can do it, because these people, they are at home, they, they are ours, and that is why it is so important to do this, and for example, at arsenal we presented such a project called we hold on, we hold on, this is poetry, and partly - in part, these po... poetic, poetic numbers were based on those poems that were sent to us from captivity, because people

could already write from there, and such things, they are super important, symbolic support of relatives, so there is somewhere to turn, there is a whole instructions, we published them directly, but you have to remember that this support from us, from the ukrainian society, should always be a relative. ms. maria, do independent searches take place, it happens that people independently on... try to look for their relatives or just an acquaintance, and there is another question, professional, tell me that it is not possible to publish... what information is not can be distributed, as with the so-called independent search. and i will also add that to the photo you mentioned, this is such a practical tip, usually when videos and photos from captivity appear, you will not see it there civilian, so for civilians this is a big problem, however, if your relative is a prisoner of war, a soldier who is

missing and you saw his photo or video on russian resources, then you need. contact the coordination headquarters, they have a defense attorney's office where you can upload these photos and videos, the coordination headquarters will review it all, identify it, if the photo is unclear, you can contact your investigator who is handling your criminal case, conduct a match examination, or indeed it is this person, and then the coordination headquarters in the same office will change the status of your relative from missing to... captured, therefore, this is just one of the searches that relatives are engaged in independently, they monitor all russian resources, because, unfortunately, this so far one of the most effective methods to find your relative, eh, because we often help relatives write requests, they hire some lawyers who write requests

in the territory of the russian federation or in the occupied territory, and often these requests just go nowhere, so what... the answer is there alone, there is no such person here, so these searches are for relatives, namely the monitors of these telegram channels, we also know from the experience of some groups of families with whom we help, but recently we had a press conference with the 57th brigade, they there is a lot of experience in searching for their relatives, there are a lot of missing people, a lot of missing people in the luhansk direction in the period... that is, from february to june 2022, and there are very few confirmed prisoners of war there, and the relatives tried by any means find, enter somehow to these positions, they somehow contacted the people who still remained in these territories, asked them to visit these e positions, so yes, natives on their own, they conduct a lot of searches, they

monitor almost everything, and often we are faced with that relatives have more information than they do. our state body , by the way, about your article and about the 57th brigade, i would like to ask you separately, the situation there is special, because in reality, well, let's put it this way, more than 100, 120 are considered missing, so approximately, one is one episode only, for one episode, but for some reason, for example, the red cross only confirms 12, as far as i understand. yes, why does it happen that we understand the real number of people is 100, 200, it may be more, for example, officially the red cross or another public organization confirms there 12, 15, 20, it is interesting to hear your opinion, because you about it wrote, you talked about it, why

so in fact, but if we talk about this case in particular, they were there... for example, on february 24, the 57th brigade is a settlement of trechbank, there are many confirmed prisoners, they are still in captivity, they exchanged very few, if we take the period of novotoshkivka and toshkivka of the luhansk region, there were very heavy battles, there was a cauldron in toshkivka in june 2022, there is an area of ​​high-rise buildings where our military occupied their positions, they fell under heavy weights. riz shelling and it is still impossible for search parties to get there, we also know that wagner and the akhmat unit were opposing the 57th brigade at that time, and we managed to talk to one demobilized from that period, he was not confirmed, he

was received in luhansk sizo, and he did not see any of his brothers during this period, while... he was in captivity, and russia, it does not confirm these people until now, respectively, that's why only 12 were confirmed, so russia reported only 12 people, we don’t know anything about the rest, it’s been two years now, where are they, are they still somewhere in luhansk , or have they been transported to russia, released from captivity, when we ask, have you ever seen the 57th brigade, they say no, accordingly, if they were captured there by the lpr, then there were some... videos with them, natives found these videos, we talked there with a few released from captivity, but those who were captured by wagner, here the situation is already completely different, because wagner in general... does not inform about who, whom they capture, and 57 was also in the donetsk direction of bakhmut, they had a very difficult situation there, and when wagner left

bakhmut, they took the prisoners with them and that was the end of the story, because no one knows where the prisoners of war were taken. mrs. oleksandra, in conclusion, a question about relatives, about a psychological one. support, this it is extremely difficult when relatives realize that - someone from their family, someone from their acquaintances is in captivity, how is psychological support, contact with people, support in general for them at any stages, relatively speaking, search and return prisoners of war or civilians, well , most often this support comes through ngos, that is, these are... public organizations that directly find, look for some money in order to work as psychologists, and

we must remember that this it's called there trauma of the second circle, that people, even in whom someone has returned from captivity, still continue to be under stress and need rehabilitation and support. let me remind you that we have certain rehabilitation programs for prisoners of war. they are also not ideal, but they exist, for civilians they do not exist at all, and this, and this is a huge question for us, as for the state, as for ukrainian society, that we have to prepare for the fact that such people, in order to to return them, and maybe we want each citizen to was effective, generated financial flow, raised the economy, raised the demographics, well, for this, people need, people need to be rehabilitated, and psychologists. physically and physiologically , health care is meant, directly the restoration of this health, because we have had cases when a mother finally survived her son's captivity and died of

a heart attack literally a week later, because this is an emotional and physiological stress, and that is why it is so important for us to think about it, including to think emotionally, that is, a lot of people go on sundays to support their own azov er, here are the demonstrations , yes, upon the return from captivity, and this is important not only including a way of solidarity, to understand that these are problems not only for relatives, but that the whole society supports them, and therefore psychologically it will be a long way, but if we start it now, it will happen faster, and at the same time we have. .. to remember that it is really important to talk about it on the international stage, we do not know at what moment putin will want new negotiations, not with ukraine, but with some

germany or france or the usa, and there the first point should be civilian prisoners, prisoners of war and, of course, children who are stolen, well, today we simply do not this is the topic, and that is why it is so important for us to remember that this fight continues and that... and this is our fight. i am sincerely grateful to you. oleksandra romantsova, human rights defender, executive director of the center for civil liberties and maria klymyk, journalist, representative media initiative for human rights. thank you again for this thorough conversation, a difficult conversation, an important conversation, because we have to talk about this, we have to talk about this, and as a state, as a society, to do everything to bring back our and... prisoners of war and civilians from of russian captivity, stay on the espresso channel, see you, try fladia

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it's 5 p.m. in ukraine, news time on espressu tv channel. in the studio of iryna koval. greetings to all the viewers and i will just now tell you about the most important events. it is loud again in the belohorod region of russia. local mass media report on the hit in the raketian district. they also publish footage fire, which continues together with the detonation. it was likely that it got into the ammunition warehouse. meanwhile, the governor of the region wrote on his telegram channel that there is a fire in the raketian district.