the delay that ukraine had due to the fact that, in fact, the congress did not vote for aid to our state for quite a long period, how do you generally assess this meeting, biden's words, will we really have support? in general, i am very positive about any meetings of leaders of ukraine, in particular the president, with western leaders. and with the president of the united states, and with the president of france, and with the chancellor of germany, with any western leaders, because the west supports ukraine, and without the support of the west it will be very difficult for ukraine, it is impossible to imagine that ukraine will do, so that support is important, and it's important to keep in constant contact, in terms of the support of the united states, i can definitely say that if the current administration...she

will be in the white house, at least until january of next year, if she stays, there with possible changes, usually for the second term, then the support of ukraine will be the same as it is, because for joe biden this issue is valuable, and he really will never back down from supporting ukraine. and tell me, please, how do you perceive these words of biden in an interview with time magazine, which is much debated here, what he thinks. that the war may end, there will be no occupation of ukraine by russia, but at the same time it is possible to do without natoization of ukraine, without ukraine joining nato, how is that? this is the case, mr. vitaly, when i cannot agree with president biden. and i don't know why he thinks so, well, probably, his advisers paint such a picture for him, but i can't imagine how ukraine can be safe if it is outside nato, so that... that it is not

has security guarantees that are similar to the fifth articles of the washington treaty, because russia will threaten ukraine constantly, at least as long as there is a regime in power in russia, or any other regime that will pursue the same imperial policy as the putin regime, the kgb regime itself, the ussr, let's be honest, there and... there are simply no people around putin, and it seems to me that sooner or later president biden must understand this, because otherwise it will continue forever, if, if not a hot war, such a big one , which is now, then there will be constant, constant tension in europe, and nato, as an alliance whose task is... to

have peace in europe, it simply will not be able to fulfill its mission, because there will be no peace in europe unless this war ends, moreover, if it does not end with the defeat of russia, then ukraine will be a democratic state, part of the western world. i simply cannot imagine how it is possible to be a part of the modern western world in europe, if the country is not in nato. well, we have the examples of austria and switzerland, but that's such a separate, separate conversation. switzerland is neutral throughout century, and austria is neutral simply according to the state treaty that was signed in 1955, thanks to which austria got its own sovereignty, and soviet troops were withdrawn from its territory. and what is the purpose of such statements, it is some kind of political pass for russia and china. is it possible some kind of pass

to the voter, why now, because before that biden never expressed himself in such a way and always said that, well, in principle, ukraine will be a member of nato, but after the end of the war, what in your opinion motivated the president united states of america right now to make such statements? mr. andriy, i think that you and i will hear again that ukraine will be a member of nato during of the washington nato summit in july, but again, unfortunately, we will hear what will happen, but when it will happen, it is not known, at some point, what exactly prompted biden to say this, i do not think that there was any particular reason, well, in the united states, the vast majority people, it's nine out of 10 if against any military, military conflict between the united states and russia, that's for sure, but on the other hand. this is not a topic of the election

campaign, well, there is an election campaign, there is biden, and trump, and other candidates, because congress is going through and making speeches, this is not a topic of the election campaign. campaign, that is, i also do not think that this is some kind of a pass in the direction of russia, because there are other opportunities to make some kind of proposals to russia, because there are some contacts there at the level of leaders, development from time to time, well, biden said so, well, probably because he thinks so for many years years, he believes that... probably ukraine is not ready to be a member of nato there because of one, two, three things, maybe the fact that the united states and its main nato allies, they got burned in hungary, let's say, accepted hungary , plays a role in nato, believing that hungary will be a democracy, the same as

other western democracies, which hungary has turned out to be, we now know, that is , there may be different factors, but i definitely do not think that they have changed in any way. biden's position regarding support for ukraine, what do you think about this position of support ukraine, what will this security agreement between ukraine and the united states look like, which is to be signed during the group of seven meeting in brindisi? i would like it to be an international agreement that would be ratified by parliaments, rather than an agreement similar to the ones that ukraine signed with other countries. unfortunately, it seems to me that it will not happen, and if it does not happen, well, this agreement will be in force as long as the governments are, will agree on whether they should implement it, but i would very much like to the united states has undertaken, at least , the obligation to provide ukraine with weapons, so that it

will be such a constant support with weapons, modern weapons, more modern weapons than are provided now, at least so that there are any. mechanisms for immediate consultations, if, if there are threats to ukraine's security, but ideally we would like it to be not just an intergovernmental agreement, what is it, for it to be an international agreement that would have, that would give ukraine a guarantee of security , similar to the fifth article of the washington treaty on the creation of nato, this, this, we will not see there, unfortunately, but i would really like it if we were to... it seems that we have a little bit of some communication problems, but i think, mr. igor, i am you , i can hear you well, can you hear me, yes, yes, that's all right, please, mr. igor, what about the peace summit, the question,

the united states of america will be represented by vice president kamala harris, and mr. sullivan will also be coming to this important summit, this ... a normal level, sufficient, representation from the united states of america, and yet, why did the president of the usa decide not to come, and can it be considered that this is a lowering of the level, or is there an absolutely normal representation? i think that's absolutely fine, it's not a downgrade, it's a very high level of representation, vice president karis, she represented the united states with... just at the recent munich security conferences, and that's absolutely, absolutely fine, a very high level representations, i think it is much more important what will happen on the eve of this summit, precisely when there will be a summit of the g7, to which we are also invited of president zelenskyi, and that it is more important

to take place there, as more important meetings are taking place now, the swiss summit in switzerland, it is important that as many countries as possible express their support. to the ukrainian vision of what peace is, so that as few countries as possible express support for the chinese-russian vision of what it is, and representation at the level of a vice president is normal, because she represents the united states, that's what i said at, say, the munich security conference, and at many other such international events, international conferences, so this is what i think is normal, and what do you think, now president biden, we... we heard it during his european tour, says again that russia threatens the whole of europe, at least that was said just a few minutes ago during his meeting with french president emmanuel macron, to what extent do europeans hear such american rhetoric? mr. vitaly,

i think that someone hears, at least we hear from, let's say, some european defense ministers, that it is necessary to prepare for of a possible military conflict with russia, that... that countries should understand that they are in a pre-war state, we already hear such statements, i think that until now it is still possible, there was even no such understanding. more european countries are beginning to understand this, and by the way, if you go back to that interview of joe biden with time magazine, where he said that he, that he believes that there is a possibility that ukraine will be safe, even if it is not in nato, biden also said a lot there that russia threatens all of europe, the security of all of europe, that if it is not to stop in ukraine, it will not stop, it will go further, there he even talked much more about this than about the fact that he believes that security is possible in... countries outside nato, and it is good that there we hear, say, from the minister of defense

of sweden, even the minister of defense of germany, that it is necessary to be on the alert, that it is necessary to prepare for a possible military conflict, that now we hear this not only from high-ranking officials of the baltic countries and poland, but also from high-ranking officials of the countries of western europe, i would like to talk with you a little... about elections in the united states of america, this is an extremely important topic for ukraine, including, of course, and firstly, what can change the course of these elections, and secondly, what are the rating indicators of both candidates, biden and trump, that is, in general passage of the election campaign as of now? i would say that the chances of the candidates are 50/50 - it is absolutely impossible to predict who will win now, you will have to look at the polls in

the pig states, and start doing it somewhere from the second half of july, from the end of july, when these polls are specifically in the pig states will be conducted by many sociological services and often every week or at least once every 10 days, then it will be possible to generalize something, the main... topics of the election campaign today are from biden's side that the american economy has become stronger than it was, that it is growing , that jobs are being created, far more jobs are being created than are being lost every month, that the unemployment rate is the lowest it's been in more than 50 years, well, on trump's part, that's mostly his ot... ah, the talk that he, he won the elections in the 20th year were stolen from him, that

biden is persecuting him, organizing criminal cases against him, that here he is, he will come, he will take revenge for himself and for all his supporters, and so on and so forth. trump has many supporters, at least several tens of millions of people who will not back down from him. and this, this is absolutely obvious, but what can be a factor in the elections, it is not the participation in the elections of certain, certain categories of voters, for example, if the war on in the middle east, and if it continues as it is now, with israel unable to achieve decisive military success and the war continuing, it may lead to...left-wing democratic voters may simply not turn out in protest,

which biden supports israel and what it is not doing enough to stop the war. in the same way, trump has the danger that a part of the republican voters may not come to the polls, republicans who do not support him, but who supported nicky haley, say, classical republicans, such there is a minority of them in the republican party, but... this is also the case in both parties, these are 10 to 15% of dissident voters, so to speak, their non-participation in the elections may contribute to the fact that the opposite party, the candidate from the opposite party will receive victory, that is, this could be very important, two very important factors in the election, as far as the russian-ukrainian war is concerned, i don't see it being a campaign issue today, after the congress passed the aid law, the debate on this topic, they

somehow stopped, these far-right republicans, somehow they stopped, they used to say very often, well, roughly what we hear from trump, that we need to be there, we need to hold negotiations, we need to stop helping ukraine so that it agrees to negotiations and so on. now we don't hear that because the topic has disappeared, although going back to... your first question about the meetings in paris, they were very widely covered in the american media, that is , ukraine has again become, well, if it is in the center. for attention, then at least seriously such a topic, what is important, because it is important that western society does not think that something, something, that everything is over, or that everything is fine there, people simply forget about what is being done, and also the fact that ukraine was once again during the last days on the front pages of newspapers, and

the headlines of news, tv channels, this is important, but... tell me, have you heard from putin that he says that he doesn't care, whether it 's biden or trump, that's what he said these days said, you believe him, of course i don't, because he, he would, i think, believe very sincerely that trump would be useful to him a person in the position of president, well, simply because it was easier for him to do everything he does, as for him, as it was easier for him when trump was the president the previous time, you see, we know each other well. who is putin? putin - the kgb, who is he, who was the kgb, let's say, when he started working there, he recruited snitches, as, as they were called in the soviet union, that is, he, i think that the tick, which he is well aware of, is that the psychology of the people he needs to recruit, that is, how to talk to

trump, he understands well, he, he understands psychologically his portrait, and he. well understands that he needs to be told in order to get from him what putin needs, biden simply does not talk to him and will not talk, well, that's why putin, putin has nothing to offer biden today. thank you, mr. igor, igor eisenburg, professor at new york university. and now our interlocutor, a political commentator from france, denis kolesnyk, we will talk with him directly about all these, i would say, plots that are currently accompany europe. tour of american, ukrainian, and other presidents. congratulations, mr. denis. good day. good day. so, let's talk about normandy and ukraine. to what extent do you think parallels can be drawn in france itself between the allies who landed now 80 years ago in normandy, now it is being celebrated as an important anniversary and what is happening

around ukraine. well, the question is very difficult, it is meant to draw parallels where. there are different parties, there are different, let's say, you can talk about the general society, you can talk about the political narrative, you can talk about different parties, who exactly, which exactly, what exactly are the parallels, president biden draws such parallels, mitch mcconnell draws such parallels, he said that normandy fought back because american politicians in the 1930s were isolationists, and as a result , american soldiers had to liberate europe because they did not respond in time to the danger, there is a lot being said now, and by leading politicians. okay, well, listen, if you look at america like that, it still is remains essentially isolationist in some sense in relation to ukraine, it does not support ukraine in the full sense of the word, maybe you do not share this opinion, but if we are talking about the results of this visit

zelenskyi, the visit of ukrainian representatives to normandy, to france. in general, how would you assess the positive aspects, are there certain negative aspects, what results, relatively speaking, has ukraine achieved or received, according to these meetings, and what can we expect next? well well, look, if you basically want to say about normandy, about the parallels, one thing can be said, it's that in any case , russia increasingly considers ... a threat to the west, and even if you refer to biden's speech , he did not say that it is possible to compare russia with nazi germany, but still russia is a threat, and this threat has already begun to be perceived very strongly in france, it is also perceived in germany, the further we go east to the borders of russia federation, the more it is perceived as a general threat to

of the european union and for the western order as such in general, therefore, of course, it is in the interests of ukraine to help. basically any western country if you look at it from this angle. if we talk about ukraine, there were a number of announcements, there was even one announcement that was not, very unexpected, it was the sending of mirages to ukraine, 20035. a very interesting announcement, which, by the way, correlates with those messages that came from ukraine about the fact that there are not enough pilots for the f-16, which. which are now being trained by the west, for example, i know that america did not want to increase the quota training ukrainian pilots referring to the fact that uh to other countries and... have to train their own pilots which i think is a bit strange as an answer, but less than, less than, uh, from a good the russian delegation was not invited at all, although

even 10 days ago, it seems that at the end of may 28 , a russian delegation was also invited, not putin, of course, who is wanted, but the russian delegation was invited, and then certain changes took place, there were raids by the russians. the federation is enough powerful threats, threats towards france, there were declarations from the representative of the russian embassy, ​​mr. makagonov, who on the live air, it seems, on the bfm channel, he threatened also in the republic of rantzuz, and just then this changed, and they decided not to invite russia at all, to my opinion, this is positive, although it is also worth noting that russian soldiers still fought against typical germany together with others, that 's possible. you are also positive about the 650 million euros that will go to help ukraine, which france has with ukraine signed two agreements, 400 million will go to

aid for development, the afd fund, this is a french development agency that will implement certain projects in ukraine, and 250 million will go to support infrastructure projects directly in ukraine and to support energy. have you heard about the idea that there should be a tripartite summit of the presidents of the usa, france, and ukraine, but it never took place, by the way, no, it did not take place at all, this is actually a very interesting question, and although president zelensky, as far as i am concerned it is known that he met with under the amaha beach time, that's how he met, he had a meeting, he had a chance to talk to various leaders, including biden, but as far as i know, it's -- how do you put it, i think there's a certain thing that needs to be talked about, this is the peace summit, and there is a rift, in

my opinion, that has happened, there is america, which clearly states that ukraine should not be included in nato, or whether ukraine can be given, let's say, some other guarantees, it is not clear what, although today, nato is the only organization that provides real guarantees, although, by the way, what are they have never been tested. on the other hand, when it comes to the threat of a nuclear country such as the russian federation, but less less less, no nato country has been attacked by the russian federation, and the position of biden on the one hand, on the other hand also the election in the united states america, maybe they are making some adjustments and maybe after all they did not agree on some certain, let's say, things, the three presidents, moreover, everyone expected in france. these, speaking for france, of the announcement of sending troops for the training of the ukrainian military on the territory

of ukraine, but this did not happen, and there was a declaration that a coalition should be created, by the way, i said about this the other day that france is most likely, and it was logically on the side of france, not to go alone, and gather at least a small coalition of two or three countries, perhaps franconi. the german-polish coalition within the framework of the same weimar tripartite and then together to send instructors to train ukrainian troops in ukraine, especially since france announced the desire and readiness to create, train and equip a brigade of 400 ukrainian soldiers, so to speak, a french brigade, on the territory of ukraine. and are the germans ready to come here as instructors together with the french, do you think? and i think not very much. and i think it does not depend on the wishes of federal chancellor scholz, i think it depends more on how decisions are made in the same france, germany and

poland. we always, when we look at some decisions that are made in the west, we somehow judge, you know, as if everyone is somehow in unison everyone says that the procedures are the same everywhere, in fact it is not so, if france, let me give an example, if france, for example, when it provides weapons... then a simple decision of the president of the republic is enough for this, for this there is no need for any votes in the parliament, in the national assembly, the president of the republic says, okay, we are sending, so we will send, it does not work like that in germany, chancellor scholz can say that we want to send weapons, but if the cities do not agree to this, then it will not happen, here you are they mentioned the statement itself macron regarding the training coalition of the ukrainian military, about the transfer of mirage 2000 aircraft, right? we also mentioned the agreement that zelensky signed with macron regarding the aid, if i am not mistaken, for 200 million euros. do you consider such help sufficient and or not?

maybe france more, because we remember how a few months ago macron actually became such a newsmaker regarding the possibility of sending french troops to ukraine, regarding the possibility of some other levels of cooperation there, as of now, how is it correlated with those statements that were, well, at least earlier, well, let's be honest, if we talk about statements, it should be noted here that emmanuel macron did not say that... at the end of february 24th, he did not say that we would send troops , he said that such an option should not be ruled out, these are slightly different things, i understand that the media may have somewhat distorted him at some point in his declaration, but the declaration was such that there is no need, let's say, no need to draw red lines for ourselves , that this is also such an option should be on the table, as they say, the second thing is that with such a declaration, emmanuel macron really showed a certain leadership and he created

this... this strategic uncertainty, if before this declaration the russians were sure that there would not be any, let's say, sloppiness in the western troops in ukraine, here he says, ok, such a solution can be, cities can come and in my opinion, they will be diluted in ukraine, a training mission in any case, so that it does not happen sooner or later, if we talk about aid, it is not 200 million, it is 250. this is to help ukrainian infrastructure, especially in matters of energy, it is difficult for me to say how much it is or not, since i am not an expert on non-critical issues, i do not know how much it costs to replace certain or other capacities in order to restore ukrainian energy, but we should also not forget that what will be allocated 400 million euros for the af, for the french organization of the development agency that

works in ukraine, which will implement projects, again from the recovery in ukraine, so after all, it is not 200 million, but 650, in this plan, how will the situation change now in france, do you think, after the elections to the european parliament, there will be some political corrections, if you consider that marine le pen's party can obviously win these elections, well, it can't win, it will win by a very, very large margin... the last poll i looked at is 33% given by egen, hasamblimas, while the pro-presidential majority will get, it seems, 14.5 or 15, you understand, it is more than even twice to dig up, how do you say, the elections to the european parliament, they do not they do not directly and at least immediately affect some situations at the national level, of course, it will be, let’s say, it will be a certain blow,

to the presidential majority, but on the other hand , everyone understands that from the very beginning the rn theoretically had to win, i mean the very beginning, when the polls began to be conducted, so there is no surprises, the surprise can only be that they can gain even more at the time of the elections, it can be unexpected, and what is the general situation now, you mentioned the national level regarding the electoral support of france, in particular through the prism. elections to the european parliament, that is, as far as i understand, the situation is somewhat plus or minus similar, or is it possible that the preferences of the french regarding the elections to the european parliament and the hypothetical elections to the national parliament of france differ? well, you understand that if you look, she will vote

again according to the poll. in the elections, 48% of all registered voters in france, this is even less than half, which in turn suggests that society does not consider these elections important for the country, and this, in principle, is tradition, the turnout for european elections is always lower than for national elections, if we talk about the possibility, about the prospects of the next french parliamentary elections, it is still too early to talk about... any parallels, but it is worth noting that the aid in ukraine, this is not a key issue that worries the voter, the voter is worried about the rise in prices, er, danger, but not in the sense of geopolitical danger, but danger in the country itself, voters are worried about, for example, unresolved issues of migration issues, and so voters...