at least seven patriots are needed to protect ukrainian cities from russian attacks and to rebuild at least part of the destroyed energy industry by winter. kyiv's very specific needs were voiced in berlin at the conference on the restoration of ukraine, where representatives of more than fifty countries gathered. so what do they promise to help with, we talk about it on the bbc live from london, i'm yevgenia shedlovska. international partners know the needs of ukraine, they are not new and extremely urgent. now one of the key issues is how to protect energy facilities and restore destroyed ones. we will talk about energy in detail a little later, and now about the conference in berlin, where they will discuss. a lot of things - this is a two-day

event at which representatives of more than 60 countries, politicians, businesses, a total of 200 participants gathered, and what is important, they repeat that they are talking about the reconstruction of ukraine, which will be in the european union, this is the refrain of the first speeches, so about this was also said by chancellor olaf scholz, but the key statement came from the president of the european commission, ursela funderlajen. ukraine has completed all the steps to start negotiations on joining the eu, we need them to start by the end of june, said fonderlajen, but this is also about future prospects. ukraine needs help already, so how the donor conference in berlin began, more on that later. politicians, diplomats, businessmen and public activists are gathering for the third time to discuss how ukraine will be rebuilt after the war. in all, this is already the seventh such conference of donors, but what began in london in 2017 as a reform conference, after a full-scale second. became a conference on

recovery and reconstruction. ukraine this time presented at the highest level. we are honored to be here today. thank you for your attention to ukraine and ukrainians, for your support in our defense of life, life that must defeat the russian war. participants from all over the world will talk about ukraine's needs for two days. the first and most important thing is to strengthen air defense. according to the words. to protect volodymyr zelenskyi , ukraine needs at least seven patriot systems to protect the largest cities. and germany has promised to transfer one of these air defense systems, the third in a row. chancellor olaf during the conference, scholz announced that ukraine will receive it in the near future, as well as missiles and ammunition. the most urgent need of the ukrainian army now is ammunition, weapons, especially air defense. therefore, in the coming weeks and months. we will supply ukraine with the third

patriot system, airist, cheetah, missiles and ammunition. at the beginning of the full-scale invasion, one of the targets of the russians was energy facilities. ukraine has already lost half of all energy production. prime minister denys shmyhal spoke about this earlier. so now western partners think how to help ukraine survive the winter. given russia's systematic attacks on the ukrainian energy system, we have gathered. about 500 million euros for urgent repair work, in addition, we are providing another thousand generators for emergency electricity production, and thousands of solar panels are about to arrive in ukraine, and the current conference is not only about plans, but also about achievements, ursola fonderlands among other things, confirmed that ukraine has fulfilled all the requirements for the start of negotiations on joining the eu and that negotiations are likely to start already this month. so, in general, this is the seventh such and... the third after

the full-scale invasion of russia, when ukraine's needs became many times greater. but why talk about post-war reconstruction, investments, investing money when the war is still going on. a bbc correspondent in berlin analyzes what this will bring to ukraine. the goal is to unite the efforts of governments, various international organizations, and most importantly, business leaders, this is the main thing. this conference is often called a donor conference, but in reality no one is meeting for the next two days. to give money to ukraine, here it is more about saying business, so the state structures promised so much money, all the countries and foreign ministers were on stage this morning and declared that we promise so many billions for the restoration of ukraine, these are all the promises they make for the future, but what they do, they they say it's a good opportunity for business, and they also say that the government organizations, the taxpayers , can't handle it on their own, so the main goal is to bring back... the country of business representatives,

the time frame is the main issue because business leaders say it's all very well if we invest in infrastructure, but what if they get bombed tomorrow, and of course the longer the war goes on, the harder it gets. there are many other issues regarding the workforce, because a third of the population has left ukraine. another large part, almost a third, is at war with russia, so who will build this infrastructure? and that is why international aid organizations and non-governmental organizations are so important in this. so there are many questions, but i think they are trying to create a narrative of optimism at this conference. for example, ursula funderlajen said that within a month, the eu should start negotiations on ukraine's accession to the eu. it is incredibly fast, if ukraine does manage to break into the european union. this will certainly give business and non-governmental organizations a real push to become more involved in ukraine. so it's all about creating that momentum, but of course the longer the war, the harder it is. that is why

it is impossible to distance ourselves from the fact that all this is also connected with military aid to ukraine, which is of course a completely different discussion, but in some countries there is quite controversial and i think that's one thing. on key issues, no one will be against the fact that business helped rebuild ukraine. the real question is how much and exactly what kind of military aid should come to ukraine, what it will look like and how to effectively fight against russia. well, as olaf scholz said, the best reconstruction is the one that doesn't need to, so i think that's what everyone has in mind here. and if we talk about energy infrastructure, there are two aspects: how to protect what is left and restore it. destroyed, elena joins us from berlin pavlenko, president of the centerux group analytical center and one of the leading energy experts, ms. olena, you are participating in this conference, what are your impressions and how will the promises you hear turn into real help for ukraine? good evening, thank you very much

for the opportunity to speak today. first of all, right, today, all day, throughout the conference, there was a lot of talk about air defense and how much it is necessary to protect that generation. which already exists in our country, secondly, almost everyone talked about war insurances, about those insurances that can be obtained by any companies, investors, anyone who can invest in ukraine right now, thirdly, there are three decisions announced by the government at different levels in order to somehow prepare for winter, the first decision is to increase imports as much as possible. to increase opportunities for receiving electricity in ukraine. the second solution is to get the equipment that was destroyed in ukraine and that is not used in the european union. for example, tes, which work, thermal power plants that

worked in germany and now will be closed, may be useful for ukraine, in order to quickly restore the lost equipment. thirdly, now the government. will make a lot of decisions in order to quickly attract and import some simple solutions for small households, for small businesses, so that everyone can prepare for winter as much as they can on their own, eh, but we still need to add an important point that was not talked about a lot, but it is important to talk about it now, it is a necessity for every household, for every business. save electricity and to prepare for winter as much as possible in order to consume as little electricity as possible, if you can insulate, insulate, if you can switch to alternative sources, please switch, if you can bring

generators with you, please bring, that is, everything , what can be done in order to provide oneself autonomously with electricity, it is important. mrs. elena, let's see. together on the state of ukraine's energy system, that is, after russian systematic shelling, that's what we are heard a few numbers that president zelenskyy announced while speaking at the opening of the conference in berlin, so 9 gw of power was destroyed by russian strikes, while the peak consumption last winter was 18 gw, half of it is now gone, zelensky said, and another 80 gw were destroyed % of heat generation and a third of hydrogen generation, so here's how to restore. these lost capacities, that 's exactly the question, and going back to our conversation, what you already said, you mentioned these government programs, if this assistance comes, will it help to make it so that in there were no power outages in ukraine like now,

i don’t want to, i’m generally an optimist, but i don’t want to make empty promises, i think it will be very difficult to leave, enter the winter so that there are no... connections at all, -first, we won't have enough thermal generation when we consume electricity in the evening or in the morning, we won't have these additional... generating capacities that usually cover our peak consumption, so i think there may be questions and problems in the morning and in the evening, when we all join together with you light, we start cooking, eating, or in the evening we turn on washing machines or other equipment, secondly, we must remember that russia sees how effective the attacks were, it will try to repeat them, so it is so... international donors, with countries about the need to protect the infrastructure before

the winter, we cannot lose what we have now, and we must only add, then there is a chance that we will be able to get through the winter more or less stably, well, that's also interesting, president zelenskyy spoke about a maneuverable gas plant generation, so ukraine wants to build capacity up to 1 g this year, so he said, what kind of system is this. and how is it possible to do it when there is, well, half a year, actually? there are large gas generation systems, gas turbines, there are less powerful, so-called peakers, as far as i know, both of which are now imported into ukraine in order to maximize the amount of generation, the question is who can import all this, who can pay for such for such equipment. it is expensive and if it can, those companies that will bring it will be able to very quickly

to install these facilities, because in addition to bringing such equipment, it must be correctly located, correctly connected, get all the permits, and here it is actually very important that there is maximum support from the state, from the regulator, from the ministry, simplification of all procedures and assistance to any company that is willing to bring such... speakers, such gas turbines, to install this equipment as soon as possible, we do not have, unfortunately, a year, or eight months, or seven months, we have more than 100 days until winter, and everything we can make and install in 100 days, and we will winter with that. thank you, olena pavlenko, president of the analytical center, was in touch with us from berlin, where the conference on the restoration of ukraine began. thank you for joining our broadcast. but summing up what ukraine wants to get from this

donor conference, of course, more help and as soon as possible, but what will actually get, here is the opinion of the british viewer timothy. this is already the third such conference during the war. they are caused by the fact that if remember the second gulf war in iraq, the west forgot about recovery and reconstruction and focused on winning that war. this time, when it comes to the war... ukraine pays a lot of attention to what is happening while the war continues, as well as to the restoration and reconstruction of ukraine. and it's also about money, winning a war is very, very expensive. we spend about 100 billion dollars a year to help ukrainians in the war. recovery and reconstruction costs for ukraine are already estimated at approximately 500 billion dollars. the total cost reconstruction can reach about a trillion dollars. who will pay for it? this conference focuses on that, but also on the structure of the institutions that will decide. how to manage and coordinate these funds and regarding the use of frozen russian assets,

because the numbers are so huge, 100 billion dollars a year just to support ukraine in the war, to win the war, that's probably 150 billion a year, and then recovery and reconstruction, this probably another trillion dollars, where will the money come from? western payers they probably don't want to pay taxes. we had elections to the european parliament, where populism was very important. western jurisdictions have $330 billion in western bank accounts. assets of the russian central bank, which is the money of the russian taxpayers, there is a big campaign to make sure that the money is first used to win the war, to give ukraine the opportunity to buy weapons for its own defense, and then also for reconstruction and reconstruction. this will be a key topic of the g7 summit. the usa, canada, great britain are putting pressure on use of russian money. europeans, in particular the european central bank, are lobbying to prevent this from happening. they are less enthusiastic about it, but if that money doesn't come. ukraine can lose the war, this is a reality. well, that's all, see you soon.

greetings, friends, the second part of the verdict program is on the air of the espresso tv channel. my name is. serhiy rudenko, and in this part we will talk about the following: in time for winter, president zelensky in berlin called on... europe to invest in recovery energy sector of ukraine, what help can you count on? shameful practices of censorship. the ministry of culture claims that they did not know about the introduction of temniks in ukrinform. how can the government's information policy affect relations with western

partners? even hard and uncompromising. the majority of ukrainians. consider it necessary to criticize the government during the war, to what extent it is acceptable to rock the boat. we will talk about all this in the next 45 minutes, in the meantime i want to remind you that in addition to the live broadcast, we also work on youtube platforms and facebook, for those who are currently watching us live there. please subscribe to our pages and take part in our survey. today we come to friends, we ask you about this, are we allowed to criticize the government during the war? yes, no, please vote on youtube with the appropriate buttons, if you have your own opinion, a separate opinion that does not fit into these two unambiguous answers, please write your opinion in the comments under this video. if you're watching us on tv, pick up your smartphone or

phone and vote if you think it is acceptable to criticize the government during war, 0. 211 381 no 0800 211 382. all calls to these numbers are free, vote. at the end of the program, we will sum up the results of this vote. i would like to introduce the guests of today's studio, this is oleksandr mereshko, people's deputy of ukraine from the servant of the people, chairman of the verkhovna rada committee on foreign policy and interparliamentary cooperation. mr. oleksandr, i congratulate you, thank you for being with us today. thanks for for. rostislav pavlenko, people's deputy of ukraine from european solidarity, member of the parliamentary committee on education, science and innovation, former director of the national institute for strategic studies, mr. rostislav, i congratulate you and thank you for being with us today, congratulations, thank you for the invitation, i apologize, with the power out , it looks a little so steep, well, that, but this is

the reality in which we all live now, so thank you for being with us today, and we are waiting for the inclusion, yaroslav yurchyshyn, people's deputy of ukraine, chairman of the parliamentary the committee on freedom of speech, and the editor tells me that there is already mr. yaroslav, mr. yaroslav, we welcome you, thank you for being with us today, good evening, so gentlemen, as we ask our tv viewers about the admissibility of criticizing the government during the war , i 'm going to ask you in a blitz poll what you think about it, and then we 'll talk about the results... what kmis measured and what sociology says about it, but since we've formulated this question for our audience, i forward this a question for you, mr. rostislav, shall we start, shall we allow criticizing the government during the war? look, not only suppose it is a function of victory, criticism should not be

general and criticism for the sake of criticism, but show specific ... problems and shortcomings and suggest what can be done instead, this is the actual prevention of what, as they say, the government corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely, so of course let's assume, with one condition, criticize or suggest, thank you, mr. yaroslav, and this is one of the foundations of democracy, but i here, too, i agree with the fact that criticism is for the sake of criticism, just so that the authorities do not do it. everything is bad, because we are not the government, this is not the approach, and this applies both to the opposition and to individual representatives of the non-political sector, in principle it is better to start not with criticism, but to start with a proposal, and if the proposal is in principle, there is no reaction, only then to switch to the format

of criticism, it worked very well at the beginning of a full-scale invasion, well... but for any government, government in the broadest sense of the word, the whole parliament, despite this, the majority or the opposition did not relax, but of course it is necessary to propose, and constructively criticize, to fully accept. thank you, mr. yaroslav, mr. oleksandr, well, of course, it seems to me that here the question is not whether criticism is permissible or impermissible, within their limits, but... i would say yes, criticism is yes, but the spread of russian no propaganda narratives. thank you, mr. oleksandr, gentlemen, i mentioned this sociology from kyiv. of the international institute of sociology, and this sociology says that that ukrainians believe that the government should be criticized even during the war, but at

the same time 50% are convinced that only constructive criticism is permissible so as not to destabilize the situation in the country, and 31% believe that it is possible to criticize the government even harshly and uncompromisingly, because that is the only way possible mistakes can be avoided only... 13% believe that during the war one should not criticize the actions of the authorities in order not to destabilize the situation, well, here you gentlemen actually spoke in the context of political activity or opponents of the authorities or political forces or leaders of the public sector, quite a question broadly regarding criticism of the authorities, regarding actions, regarding criticism of the actions of the authorities, since... we are also talking about mass media, because here, mr. oleksandr, you are talking about not having these russian narratives, but well,

under this concept can be summed up in any way, say: well, serhiy rudenko is saying something against president zelensky, it is generally a russian narrative, and it is not unclear where he picked up this narrative, that is, where it is about the russian narrative. obviously, the security service of ukraine should work, obviously the security service of ukraine must give clear answers to who is doing it and how, and whether this is the narrative that someone is specifically promoting, or, let's say, the opinions of a certain serhiy rudenko there can be used, including by russian propaganda, after hearing on the air , they can replicate it, and then it will look like i kind of worked it out. russian narratives, where, where is the line in your opinion, when journalists criticize the government, journalists investigate, including

illegal enrichment there, as in the latest investigation of the deputy prosecutor general, or the questions that arise from journalists are quite logical to the representatives of the authorities about how they live during the war, what they do, how they are, whether they buy new houses. for 48 million hryvnias, who is buying these houses for them for 48 million hryvnias, will there not be such a thing here that we will talk all the time, or the authorities will say, listen, but this is a russian dog, in general, someone is driving them away, mr. oleksandr, well, in fact, it is the issue is resolved quite simply, there are legal mechanisms, which you also mentioned, by the way, that allow you to separate criticism, which is well a necessity in a democratic society. actually, we differ from totalitarian russia in that we have a democracy and there is criticism, this is a normal and desirable phenomenon in a democracy, and there is a court, there are judicial bodies that

allow resolving disputes related to the fact that criticism is allowed , which is protected by the constitution, or are these russian narratives aimed at discrediting, for example, the government, that is, in the end, in the end. in this case , it should be decided by the judicial authorities, with this, with this it is clear, but how to solve situations when we see or learn about the facts of censorship or interference in the work of the media or restrictions on the work of the media during the war, restrictions on tv channels regarding access to t2, attempts to introduce dark circles in the ukrainforum, attempts to influence the editorial policy or the policy of the republic. mr. yaroslav, where, where is this limit here and do we always have these preventive measures that allow

us to talk about the fact that it is not necessary to do this, and law enforcement agencies also must respond to attempts to censor or limit freedom of speech, the best countermeasure is this self-organization exactly. media regulation, and actually journalists even in ukrinform, not even in ukrinform, specifically in ukrinform , we are talking about this, because this is the most recent example, yes, but they decided not to go after the dark people, so in principle they chose the path without censorship, in relation to the actual cases, when someone there forgets that ukraine has gone through a sufficiently... difficult path from the kuchm times, from the movement without censorship, through the creation of a competitive and sufficiently free media market, and tries

to implement... some recommendations, who to invite, how to cover, then of course , this at least 171 articles of the criminal code, obstructing the activities of journalists, in ukrinform, in principle, we will raise this issue before the ministry of culture and information policy, there should generally be a supervisory board that can be appealed to in the event of such situations, from our side, as from the committee , so i know that colleagues and iryna gerashchenko are here... rostislav can confirm that they turned to the prosecutor general's office, the prosecutor general's office transferred this case to the kyiv city prosecutor's office for jurisdiction, we expect their reaction. in ukraine , any cases of pressure regarding the actual disconnection of the channels are not allowed. the case is now in the legal procedure in the courts. well, but it is very important

to talk about this, because in our courts... unfortunately, there is a tendency to drag out such sensitive cases under various pretexts, if the party does not appear, to occupy the judge and the like, that is why public attention to this process is critical is important, and i am convinced that the intensification of european integration will pose the question of a sufficient rube, and if there are no legal grounds, then limiting access, and the only legitimate now... the option to restrict access is to impose sanctions due to the affiliation of media resources to a russian propagandistic holding, i.e. to the russian propaganda machine, so in principle, other channels should have unlimited access to those frequencies and to those areas that they have in in our agreements, and therefore

, if we on the committee plan to raise this issue once again in the public sphere, so that we simply do not forget, public publicity and attention are very important here, well, it is unlikely that it will be forgotten, especially in the implementation oleksiy matsuka, i know how these temniks existed in ukrinform, so i remember very well the beginning of the 2000s and the temniks that were from the office of... the president of ukraine, which was headed by viktor medvedchuk and what a resonance there was then, people in in 2004, they were forced to publicly repent of the fact that they worked there in these dungeons. karandeev, rostislav, acting as minister of culture and information policy, stated in an interview with interfax that the department, which should, in principle, understand what is happening in ukrinform, did not know about censorship in the national news

agency. informm, although the ukrinform news agency is a state organization under the control of the ministry of culture and information policy, the ministry does not interfere in its editorial policy, so the ministry did not know about the existence of the lists of so-called unwanted speakers you mentioned. karandiev also expressed confidence that with the appointment of the new head of ukrinform, serhiy cherevaty, there will be no such practices. mr. rostyslav, well... that's what happened in ukrenform, v in principle, probably, if there had been no war, the publicity of this event would have been much wider, and yes, some people think, well, god knew, maybe censorship during the war, military censorship can be, and it is necessary, we understand that, but civilian censorship, censorship, when they say take this speaker for commenting, don't take that one, cover this event, this event...

don't cover it, in your opinion, if karandeev didn't know about it, could it have been the artistic amateur act of the former leader ukrinform, well, actually, maybe it's all on it will stop, look, thank you for the question about censorship, because here you really need to understand, because there are a lot of such general judgments that go against the law, because if you don't know. how to do it according to the law, paragraph one, the constitution of ukraine clearly states that the constitution says that censorship in ukraine is prohibited, full stop, there is no civil, military, military, gendarmerie, no, it is prohibited that censorship, which, i’m sorry, the constitution allows, it allows restrictions, dissemination of certain information.