no 0800 211 382, ​​all calls to these numbers are free, vote, at the end of the program we will sum up the results of this vote. our guest today is volodymyr ogrysko, diplomat, minister of foreign affairs of ukraine in 2007-9, head of the russian research center. mr. volodymyr, i congratulate you, i am glad to see you. congratulations, mr. serhiy, good health. let's start our conversation, mr. volodymyr, with the conference on the restoration of ukraine. which ended today in berlin, and it aimed to outline the possibilities and the main needs of ukraine in the restoration of ukraine. what prime minister denys shmyhal said at this conference, he says that ukraine needs up to 30 billion dollars of annual investments in the next 10 years, that is, 300 billion dollars. we need reconstruction, access to foreign markets and improved logistics on... we need external

investments and technology transfer from our partners. ukraine needs from 10 to 30 billion dollars of annual investments in the next 10 years. however, mr. volodymyr, i wanted to start not with our needs, but with how we came to this conference, how did we conduct it, and how exactly before this conference , the head of the agency for the reconstruction of ukraine knocked on the door, and how? in your opinion, such nuances, such details affect the very atmosphere of the conference, the trust of our western partners, in the ukrainian leadership, and whether it was possible to avoid this conflict, a public scandal, and which then spilled over into the western media, well, regarding the conference, it is not the first, it has already become a tradition, and it is very good that our allies. partners find opportunities for

to get together once again, discuss what is needed, define priorities, and it becomes such, you know, a good tradition, and under this tradition we see that, well , real funds will be allocated, which will go to reconstruction, but well, let's be to be frank, first we need to defend what we are going to restore, that's why it's all great. but this is already so to speak for the day after tomorrow, for tomorrow we still need to finish off the russian hydra in order to have something to restore, well, by the way, in relation to these numbers that you mentioned, well, the same the prime minister mentioned our numbers, the numbers of the damage caused by this wild country, which is still called the russian federation, is from 700 billion to 1 trillion dollars, well, you can. let's face it, these, these, these, these

are fantastically large sums, so it is certainly correct to call the numbers that in order for us, at least in some medium-term perspective, to reach something more or less normal, it will be a colossal job, and it will require a lot of money. there are certainly risk-taking investors who won't wait. some things, and here i am today saw the information that already some people want even in the odesa region, which is constantly under shelling, to invest anyway and so on, what does this mean, it means that not only politicians but also businessmen believe in ukraine what you are saying is absolutely, well, it goes beyond the bounds of common sense, it is when we ourselves... put up some

artificial obstacles, but to be honest, i also cannot understand why it was necessary, well, in fact, to behead this is the whole direction of reconstruction, first of all, to dismiss the minister, and now to make it so that the hire is released on its own, does anyone think that this helps the same trust, but definitely not. yes, the german colleagues diplomatically said: well, of course, there is a large delegation, everyone came there, everyone, everyone, everyone, everyone, well, there will be no hiring, well, no one will die and so on, and of course no one will die, but are we thus turning our western partners towards ourselves, that is the question, i.e. why are we creating obstacles for ourselves, you know, once in soviet times they said that the armenian komsomol members would first create the problem, and then the yogis... pass it on, well

, that's about the same thing that happens here, i just don't understand why we need these heroic attempts to overcome the problems that we create for ourselves, but for me. it's honestly a mystery. mr. volodymyr, but obviously we are not talking only about kubrakov and nayem, when we talk about the perception of ukraine by the world, we are also talking about the general situation with corruption, the general situation with democracy, the general situation with court decisions and those verdicts that are issued in court sessions. obviously, our westerners partners want to see ukraine as a projected state, because if... shmyhal is talking about 30 billion annually for 10 years, obviously those who will give money will also demand that the ukrainian state fulfill certain requirements and conditions will be set, whether you see now that ukraine

is ready to change and to make these necessary changes, and not simply not to concentrate power there. in the hands of five people, but to create a system that would allow not just five managers to manage ukraine, but would allow ukraine to live fully, and all these spheres, about what i'm saying, and the norms, they would follow regardless of whether someone there presses a button in the president's office or dials some public or other head there or ukrinform and something. will this system require, how long do you think it will take for this system to be viable and to suit our westerners, you know, mr. serhiy, what i honestly, well, really hope for, and if you want, what i sincerely believe , is that this month we have to start

accession negotiations, despite all the obstructions from hungary, i think so or otherwise, well, he will be asked to... go out, wash his hands and drink coffee at the moment when some decision has to be made, i think that this is how everything will be done, you see, now on the example of how he behaved with stoldenburg regarding the fact that he will not help, but he will not oppose, i think that this is the correct formula, which will be applied in relation to the european union, and this is what we have, we have from, let's say, from july the beginning of very specific negotiations on all parameters... of our life, because what we will have to do agree, it's everything, starting from ecology, ending with a conditional space there, because we will have to be so one hundred percent integrated into the european body that there will not be, you know, left to right, because there is

a straight road, either yes or no, here you already know, it won't work to sweat between two drops of rain, and here i have a lot of hope that these five managers of ours will have to understand that it will not work to be managed by buttons, european law will govern, and if this law will be accepted and we will live by these rules, then five managers or 25 managers in principle do not play a role, the laws will simply work, or they will say, dear guys, if you feel that way about what we offer, well then you will have a very long time to... approach european standards and so further, i think that these mechanisms will ultimately force a transition from this micromanagement to the fact that the country will really start to change, well if, well, if we 're talking about the economy, well, sorry, no one

can control how they should act the same ukrainian entrepreneurs, if they are clearly i... says that we are, so to speak, entering european law, well, if we agreed to it, that means everything, we cannot work in any other way, and no matter what anyone calls or says , whether he hinted or eliminated someone, well , well, instead of one, they will put another, but he will still be forced to live within these frameworks, but to be honest, this is my main and only hope, because otherwise it will all just be people will change, but the system will not. well, in other words, there should be such a system in ukraine, which will be unchanged during a change of government, during a change of presidents, that is, it should be a system that allows ukraine to be open to western investors and to our western partners,

and of course there will not be, conditionally speaking, five managers who solve all issues in the country , because no one in the west like that at all , we will take, mr. serhiy, your sphere, that's it. to imagine that from some, from some office, someone writes down what to say to whom, well, that's it and who not to hire and who not to interview and so on, well, it's simple, well, well, well it. this is not impossible, well, it is impossible to imagine in principle, so if the rules of the mass media are agreed upon, then everything will mean that no dark people or anything like that will automatically disappear, well, because if something similar appears somewhere, it will mean , that there will be a scandal, it will be a nuclear explosion, and anyone who risks doing it will simply be burned in one second, well, let's hope that our path to europe will actually help the european union and help

ukrainian society, because here we are talking about that's exactly it, of course, and you know, i still believe that there are two components, strict rules and civil society, if it all comes together and including the mass media, it will be that, you know, that bad dog, sorry for that comparisons that... will bite and show what is wrong and why it is not so and so on, then these five managers will simply have to hide under the table. well, for now, these five managers, big managers, are having a big foreign policy week, because this is the week he is busy, the conference in berlin, the g7 summit starts tomorrow in italy, and then there will be a global peace summit in switzerland, tomorrow at the g7 summit. as the united states promises to announce new sanctions and export

control measures against russia during this very meeting, white house spokesman john kirby says: "we're going to continue to increase spending on the russian military machine." and this week, we're announcing an effective new set of sanctions and export control measures. these actions will respond commitments that the leaders of the group of seven countries have undertaken. they will target... organizations and networks that help russia buy what it needs for war. well, besides that, a plan to create a $50 billion fund to help ukraine will be announced at this summit, well, the most important thing is that tomorrow, biden and zelenskyy will sign a security agreement on the sidelines of the g7 summit, so there should be very powerful signals for the world. .. which is what changes the

g7 summit and this security agreement with by the united states of america, what signal are the big seven and biden sending to russia? well, the signal is unequivocal that russia hopes that someone is tired, someone has forgotten what is happening, these are all vain hopes, the only thing is, you know, that's the same in life and in diplomacy. there are different tactics of conducting affairs, well, you can organize the case in such a way as to quickly overcome the enemy in front of you and put an end to it, or you can do, you know, the process of such a gradual strangulation, that is, well, every one, well, the americans like to say, boil this frog, so that she does not understand that she has already been cooked, well, it seems to me that this very principle has become the main... him in the position of the western countries in relation to russia, so that she suffocates

gradually, so that she has less and less oxygen and that in the end she account, well, she survived this finale, but she didn't even realize that she was already clinically dead, well, you know, this topic is about the assets of russia, which are frozen, but not confiscated, well, they were gathering everyone there. and lawyers, and diplomats, and experts and so on, and the mountain gave birth to a mouse, well, sorry, this is my personal impression, yes, ukraine will receive one and a half to two, well, a maximum of 3 billion dollars every year, this is income from assets, that is, assets, that is , this whole big, well, so to speak, this bank remains untouched, but what this is the solution. problems in essence, but of course no, this is again the eyes, you know,

this is cooking by half a centimeter, by half a degree and so on, well, how much will it be possible to cook it then, this is despite the fact that russia has committed an act, no , committed an act, committed the crime of international military aggression, and that's all it is written in all documents, that is, there is no need to look for something, you just need to take the un charter, several conventions and write... that we cannot work according to our democratic standards with a country that destroys and destroys these standards, we need to make political decisions, and here we come to what we... you and i, mr. sergiu, have been talking about for a long time, there is no political will to make drastic, but very necessary decisions to quickly put an end to it. well, because of this, we return to the fact that this frog is cooked, cook, it will cook, there is no doubt about that, but here, you know, er, at the time

of the last spoonful, when they give you drop by drop, so that you... hold on and gradually grind this enemy , well, it’s at the expense of our lives, it’s at the expense of what you showed today before the beginning of our conversation, when, when the rashists kill civilians, when they destroy cities, when they erase the land, settlements and so on, well for for some it is a statistic, but for us it is our pain, and i think that we need to explain and that to show our event every day... to partners , this is what is happening, well, they saw kharkiv, they woke up a little bit, but what is different about the crooked horn, that people do not live there, so i think that we should translate all these things exactly about such, you know, general conversations about the fact that we are gradually, now there will be another round of sanctions, and that it is not possible to sit down with a reasonable head and deal with

these sanctions once and for all, yes, you can, but it is already starting here, and i don’t would like you to sanction... there, say, there aluminum industry, and i don't want you to authorize processing, there are jewels, diamonds and so on, and it all starts, well, well, listen, you can also draw the line endlessly, and where will the result be, and the result is that we are losing our sons and daughters, well, in this case, our western partners do not make drastic decisions, because... behind them is the big business of their countries, and this big business is also probably afraid of the confiscation of assets on the territory of the russian federation, because and the united states of america, and germany, and france, after all, they invested quite actively in russia before the great war, and quite a large business is located there even now, some of these businesses left, some

remained, that is, they rely on the opinion of these big internationals. corporations, companies, and want to protect them from this in this way, or do they still expect that at some stage this frog they are cooking, who already has an international criminal court warrant in his pocket, will start croaking and sit down at the table with them to agree on something or something they want, well, you know, the role of these powerful economic giants, they certainly cannot be ... thrown off the scales, they are influential, and it is true, but if we compare what the west has invested in russia and these frozen ones, let's say, only these 300 billion, because in reality there is much more, it's not the right order of numbers, that is, the west loses an order of magnitude less,

there we are talking about numbers that are really not critical for the west as such. but they are also afraid to do this, because, well, who is some, well, some conditional, i will not name, the austrian big bank, which does not want to leave the russian market after two years of war, and is dragging it out all the time, we still need to do it, we still need to agree on it, and thus continues to work there, as if nothing has happened, and so on and what will you say then about the position of this country, if , one way or another, it is influenced. this is precisely the position of one of the largest banks in this country, so, unfortunately, where profits are 300%, they once said, they can sell their own mother. another event is important enough for of ukraine, and perhaps not so important for part of the world, judging by the statistics that

are already available, this is the global summit of peace and switzerland, the number of countries and organizations that have confirmed their participation in themselves. those of peace in switzerland decreased from 93 to 78, this was told to radio liberty on the condition of anonymity by several diplomats of eu countries familiar with the progress of the conference preparations, we know that china will not be at this conference, wangyi, minister of foreign affairs of china in nizhny novgorod at a meeting of foreign ministers, said that china, which refused participate in this summit. miru again proposed his format for negotiations between ukraine and the aggressor country of russia, quoting vanier. the crisis in ukraine is still protracted. china supports timely convening. a real peace conference recognized by both russia and ukraine with equal participation of all parties and a fair discussion of all peace options, vanier says. well, that is, beijing

says that for us both russia, which attacked ukraine, and ukraine, which is currently fighting for survival, are equal, that is , the most important thing for us is the principle of sitting down at the table the two sides began to negotiate peace, and he that is, this rhetoric, frankly speaking, well , it gives a clear idea that our european colleagues and biden over the past six months have not been able to convince dzimpinna that he should influence russia and clearly articulate his position on ukraine. why do you think xi jinping in this situation cannot... take the side of the civilized world, still tries to support putin in this situation, well, regarding your first question about the conference that will be held now in

switzerland, you know, whether it will be 78 or 85 or 105, i don't think it is of such an extremely fundamental importance, even if it will be 78, as they are talking about it now, although... uh, i think that during these next one or two days, the situation may change both here and there, but believe me, this means that a huge number of countries have responded to our proposal, that one way or another the countries of the developed world, so to speak, will be represented there. and the countries that are trying, well, so to speak, well... they're called now, the global south, the third world and so on and so on, i.e. this breaks the main thesis of moscow, that

zelensky is gathering a summit of the rich and the great, and the whole world, the rest of the world, the poor and the dependent, who suffer from poverty, who suffer from neo-colonialism, and so on and so oppose him so on and so forth, that is. this, well, such a number of countries will mean that this myth is falling apart, that is, and this, i think, is the most important victory, and i will tell you frankly, to gather such a number of countries, well, it is necessary to work quite seriously, this it is not done just like that, even if you are right, russia, both directly and through china, has done and will continue to do until the last. everything so that this summit would fail and so on, well, you see, it got to the point of curiosity when lavov was awarded the order of the stallion in west africa, well, i guess, i

don’t know if it was such subtle trolling, or after all it was a coincidence the situation, but you see, he did everything in order to somehow restrain one, two, or three countries , to remove them from this list, and so on, well, well... the visiting faso, well , tell me, please, that will be big for us a tragedy, yes, no, china will not come, a country of a different, so to speak, level and strength, and what if he would be there and some kind of general declaration would be adopted, something would fundamentally change in the situation on the battlefield, no, therefore, i think that we should treat this event from the point of view of political dividends and practical, if we take political dividends, then this is a success, a success, i would say that already today, even before beginning of this conference, it's good, because the world

responded to our proposals, to ours they don't all agree with them, yes, but it means that the world hears, hears the voice of ukraine, the practical part is a little different, i'm more of a pessimist here, a pessimist than an optimist, because to get something like that... concrete and immediately it won't work, well, let's also be realistic, let's talk honestly about what will happen, yes, if, excuse me, we can feel some elements for our words, on which we can move forward, thank god, well, the topic of the exchange of prisoners of war, well, holy thing, they say, there can be nothing here, it will be possible to take a few steps so that through someone there, through qatar, through saudi arabia, through the devil's name, it will be possible to return ours. people, well, that's all, this, this is already a result, if we show the same western world, or rather, the south, that we can work on food

security, this is... already a result and so on and so forth, that is, we will not to run ahead, but i think that the very idea has now confirmed that it will be a diplomatic success for ukraine. by the way, you mentioned saudi arabia, there was just a report that the president zelensky arrived on an unannounced visit to saudi arabia, the plane with zelensky landed in the city of jeddah on the coast of the red sea, and it must be said that this visit to saudi arabia is enough. important, because zelenskyi said that a meaningful and energetic meeting with his highness crown prince muhammad bin salman al saud took place, they discussed the bilateral relations of ukraine and saudi arabia, noted the good dynamics of the implementation of our previous agreements, but at the same time , zelenskyi added that at the meeting they discussed preparation for the global peace summit, its expected results and their possible

implementation. saudi arabia plays a rather important role, mr. volodymyr, in the world and in terms of influence on russia, because the exchange of prisoners of war, among other things, took place through the mediation of both saudi arabia and kuwait, and we see that the saudis have influence on russia. why and what can change this unannounced visit of zelensky in this situation, because of course, he is in a rather er... a short period of time, all visits are made, because tomorrow he has a global, not global, but the g7 summit, today he completed a forum on the restoration of ukraine, so he flew to saudi arabia, can saudi arabia influence and does it influence the policy of russia, including regarding the future of russian-ukrainian relations, you you know, i think that neither china nor saudi arabia, to the extent that we dream about the position. putin

has no influence, well, china has its own interests, china does not want to lose its ideological and dependent partner, well , let's put ourselves in china's place, why should i lose a chinese person to russia, when she and i, especially since i can influence this russia, can jointly oppose the hated west, well, i will not make this partner disappear somewhere, somewhere... on the contrary, i will to help him quietly, calmly, under the table, anywhere, so that he holds on, holds on and we are together, but if this partner is cooked, well, then a completely different situation arises in china, then, then i myself, a chinese, will oppose everything western world, there will not be enough strongmen, so we will have to negotiate, and believe me, as soon as possible russia will fall, china will love ukraine very much and

will say that this is what it was... this, well, it was a mistake, it's some people there, they will shoot him there or shoot him publicly in the stadium and so on, and so on, they will make a sap happen , you will say that this was not really an official position, but that these were some revelations of the party line on the ukrainian issue, well, honestly, that is, you understand, china is playing in its national interests, and it is now more profitable for it to stick together with russia than to help ukraine, and no saudi arabia no... no one no, the united states of america, until the ukrainian warrior puts an end to this story, well, it will not affect putin, only in this way you can put all the dots on the i, so we will return again to this very topic, that in order for everything the world has changed, we need to defeat this cursed half-empire, after that the situation in the world will be completely different, and china will not be able

to play on... no harm, it will look for ways to negotiate with the same event, because it is ultimately for him account is more important than to play against each other. i have already mentioned this meeting of brics foreign ministers in nizhny novgorod, and obviously, obviously, at this meeting, it was about brics and the countries that are included in it, well, except for india, which india will be represented. at the global peace summit, and this has already been confirmed in delhi, and well, in this story, putin is trying to create a certain coalition of states and hold an alternative summit of some kind, making peace or talking about this peace, because the president of brazil , luiz inacio lula da silva, he is on the phone in a conversation with putin, he supported the proposal to

organize peace talks with the participation of russia. and ukraine, that is, putin.