of the peyskyi union, you guys are still there, well , there are a few 3-4-five points you need to bring to the fore and after that we will start negotiations, well, i think that somewhere it will go in the same way, not to say that no, we, we, we, we, no, we do not start negotiations, but at the same time say, well, literally do one more time, two or three times, what has probably already been done a long time ago, and then we will start after six months these processes, and in these...years, i think, mr. serhiy, a lot will change, but i have already spoken and written about this many times, in i have a feeling that in these six months, somewhere until october november, we will be happy for one big, one big event that will take place in the south, and now we are witnessing that this process is happening point by point so far, and with each subsequent one day, it will have a more and more systematic character, meaning crimea, which will gradually be

cut off from russia, and then the question will arise before this criminal, either to release him, or to demonstrate a gesture of goodwill once again, or to put a cross on this the whole, on this whole body of troops, because it will be destroyed, and if, or rather... when that happens, then the questions about all the following political things, i think, will be decided much more quickly. another event, which is happening literally before our eyes, is the formation of the so-called sanitary zone, but already on the other side of the border in the territory of rossi , he wanted a sanitary zone, well, let him get it, he says that we allowed the ukrainians to beat deep for 200 miles is 320 km, and it is obvious. it can be seen that this is also one of

options for how the security of ukraine can then be organized, in relation to the russians, well , we will not get anywhere from these neighbors, they will always be close to us anyway, maybe this is a zone of 200 or 300 km, maybe this is one of the options for arranging this , here i will not agree with you, although you and i always stick to the same line, i think that security will be when this... does not happen, let me be criticized for this and considered too radical, but as long as this country will be from the baltic to the pacific ocean and it will have nuclear weapons, neither we nor the west will have one hundred percent security, so i think that the best option is the disintegration of this country under international control, its denuclearization, demilitarization... and

the creation of a certain number of countries on the post-russian territory that will sometimes, certainly not immediately, gradually transform into something similar to the civilized world , maybe a couple of generations will pass, but for history it is a small, small, as they say , time intervals, so if the geography remains the same, then muscovy will be formed, which this war criminal putin talks about with horror, so will muscovy, because it is... but there will also be opportunities for other peoples understood by this muscovy to say that we want to live an independent life, we have all the economic and other opportunities for this, why not? that is, you believe in a black swan that will fly in and destroy it there, i believe in the objective course of history, the same objective course that...

buried the soviet union, the same objective course of history will also bury russia, because it is an ear of corn on clay feet, and you just need to find a pain point now, along which hit, and she, you know, like a bridge, they say that there is one point in the bridge that holds the whole structure, but this structure will collapse as soon as we find this point, i think that the liberation of crimea will be the beginning of the end, well ... i think that the liberation of crimea will be accelerated when f-16 aircraft reach us. the minister of defense of the netherlands, kaisa olongren, said in an interview with ukrainian pravda that her country will already hand over the first fighter jets to ukraine this summer. let's hear what she said. there will be more and more planes, and this will strengthen yours air force i can't name the date, so i say: this summer. we are following this

plan now, while you will get the planes from denmark first, we will be after denmark, but it is a joint plan. well, the actual answers to the questions. when crimea will turn from a peninsula into an island, because if f-16 planes and long-range weapons appear 200 miles by 320 km, this is exactly the crimean bridge, and in fact history will repeat itself, because the russian army and the russian navy more than once fled to the sea and drowned there, well, i don't know mr. serhiy, will the heroic sinking of russian warships be repeated ? won't even happen, but i think that the combination of all these things, yes plus really,

well, at the first stage, the implementation of the sanitary zone concept only on that side of the border, all this will have devastating consequences for russia and... despite the fact that now there, well, this criminal harakhori, this one talks about his plans there, about the fourth place of russia, in terms of economic development, listen, well, it's not even funny anymore, then i think that a combination of all these things, and it's very good that our colleagues, well really really help us, here the only question is whether we have a sufficient number of well-trained pilots, this is a topic that is actually one of the most important, so i think that when all this starts to be realized, in this bunker, there will be few opportunities to continue this war, well, unless he once again

releases his eternally drunk former deputy and partner medvedev into the arena, who will again shout that tomorrow on... we will press the button, well, but i think that this is even for our frightened westerners partners is no longer working, that is, according to your forecasts , the fall of russia will begin in the fall of the 24th year, which will end with the disappearance of this great russian empire from the map, and in fact, the point of no return will be precisely october-november of the 24th year, well, you know, once upon a time... the great russian scientist lomanosov said that the power of russia would grow in siberia, so here i am, if you rephrase it, you can say that the collapse of russia in crimea will grow, and this is really

true, because it sacred for them, it is for them fantastic, and so on, and so on, as soon as crimea falls, a chain reaction will begin. when it will happen exactly and how many post-russian countries there will be, no one can say today, but the main thing is that the process begins. on this optimistic note, mr. volodymyr, we will end our conversation. thank you for the conversation, it was volodymyr ogrysko, politician, diplomat, minister of foreign affairs of ukraine in 2007-9. friends, during our broadcast we conduct a survey, we ask you about the following, do you support the idea economic reservation from mobilization, let's see the intermediate results. poll please on the screen 41% yes 59% no, this is the results of a tv poll, the same poll will be in the second part of our program, you have news from our partners at the bbc ahead of you, but i will be back in the studio in 15 minutes, i have a guest there will be

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discounts that represent unbreakable discounts on tablets citramon darnytsia. 10% at travel pharmacies for you and savings. vasyl winter's big broadcast. two hours of airtime. hours of your time, two hours to learn about the war and how the world lives, two hours to keep up with economic news and sports news, two hours in the company of favorite presenters, presenters who have become like family to many, as well as distinguished guests of the studio, the events of the day in two hours, vasyl zima's big broadcast, a project for smart and caring people, in the evening at espresso. achieving peace requires the participation and dialogue of all parties. this may be the position of the world after the talks in switzerland. very soon

, representatives of hundreds of countries will meet there to discuss peace in ukraine. what will be the results, why actually ukrainians may not like the result of the swiss summit. all the most important today at 21:15 in the project says velikiy lviv. on the air of the espresso tv channel. greetings friends, the second part of the verdict program is live on the espresso tv channel, my name is serhiy rudenko, and in this part we will talk about the following. trial by hire. the berlin conference on the restoration of ukraine was held without the director of the relevant state. how will the public conflict between nayem and shmyhal end? the actual

vice president of ukraine? the western press writes about the concentration of power in the hands of andrii yarmak. who is he, the head of the president's office, gray cardinal or usurper? economy booking. the verkhovna rada may consider a bill on deferrals for employees. the real sector of the economy, whether mobilization will become fairer, we will talk about this and other things in the next 45 minutes. let me remind you that we work not only on the live air of the tv channel, but also on our youtube and facebook platforms. for those who are watching us live there now, please subscribe to our pages, take part in our survey, today we ask you the following, do you support the idea of ​​economical booking from mobi. it is about the fact that the company, according to the draft law that has already

been submitted to the verkhovna rada of ukraine, will pay uah 20,000 per month for its employee, and in this way will book its employee, so we ask you if this idea will be approved, or whether this the idea will be for public discussion, do you support the idea of ​​economic defense against mobilization? yes, no, everything is quite simple on youtube, either yes or no, write your comment if it goes out of bounds unequivocal answer under this video, and please like this video, if you are watching us on tv, pick up your smartphones, phones, vote: on the numbers 0800 211 381, if you support the idea of ​​economic reservation from mobilization, and if not, then 0800 211 3802. so, friends, at the end of the program we will summarize the results of this vote, we will see the full

picture, whether you support economy booking or not, well, i want to... introduce our guests now, this is maksym rozumny, a political expert , doctor of political sciences, mr. maksym, i congratulate you, thank you for being with us today, good evening, and volodymyr fesenko, political scientist, chairman of the board of the center for applied political research penta, mr. volodymyr, i congratulate you, thank you for joining our broadcast, i congratulate you, well, since gentlemen, we ask our viewers and tv viewers what they think about economic booking from mobile. i would like to hear in the format of asking questions and your answers to these questions, do you support the idea of ​​economic reservation from mobilization, mr. volodymyr, let's start with you, i i support, i even proposed such an approach, so that the opportunity to receive a reservation was not given to an individual, as previously proposed, then it would be

unfair, well, those with high salaries, they pay the highest taxes, well , they receive. reservations, now reservations will be received by companies that will pay additional funds into the budget, they will decide because they need workers, there at the new post office, i know, metallurgical plants, agricultural businesses, they need workers, some drivers, some welders, some people who work in the logistics business, so i think that it is fair, you should help the country, or at the front. or through the payment of taxes, and this is to promote the economy, not to evade mobilization. the problem is that the cabinet of ministers needs to get things in order with the reservation in general, because there is now, sorry for the politically incorrect term, a real mess. thank you, mr. volodymyr, mr. maksym, is it about justice when or injustice

when it comes to economic reservation and about what actually in society can... think, how society will perceive it, i can predict that the idea of ​​accompanying the reservation of payments, financial, monetary, will be perceived as a blatant injustice, as a property sense, and in this sense, it is unlikely that this the idea will be very popular in society, but in general, the logic that is ... seen in this question, it starts, so to speak, from the moment when what the previous participant in our conversation said, the mess that exists at the level of decision-making, at the level of regulation, at the level of defining strategies and

the tactics of conducting that mobilization, that is, when it spreads to lower and lower. levels, that is, when the authorized bodies cannot make decisions and implement effective policies, then they begin to appeal to the concept of justice, well, that is how it is established in ukrainian society, it is very difficult to find justice, because here the interests of some people are opposed to other people, and , accordingly, the understanding of justice itself among different groups and categories of the population. are different, so this whole question descends to an even lower level, who will redeem himself and who, so to speak movyt lobbies in relevant bodies and relevant institutions for a profitable solution, unfortunately, this algorithm has already been tested by many of our problems, and it cannot be said that it is successful. and can i repeat,

yes please, yes, this is exactly what is happening right now, exactly. so when they lobby and dubious structures appear that get the right to evade mobilization, there are various gambling companies and so on, but a purely economic, clear, transparent approach is offered, you pay a legally operating company, you pay additional money, and for those workers you want to keep for your business, and that's fine, it works for the ukrainian economy and additional money for defense. the topic of justice is such, i would say, a whim. in fact, those who criticize are against mobilization as such, that's the problem. by the way, i wanted

to explain to our tv viewers why we started with this topic, because a bill on economic reservation was registered in the verkhovna rada of ukraine, and this was reported by people's deputy natalukha, he was always quite active in favor of this economic reservation, which provides for this draft law, which is already in... in the ukrainian parliament, every business entity that pays an increased military levy in the amount of uah 20,000 per month per employee, has the opportunity to reserve it. the payment of the increased fee is not made by the employee, but by the business itself. well, the head of the parliamentary committee on national security and defense, people's deputy from servant of the people oleksandr zavitnevich said that the idea of ​​economic reservation from mobilization is accurate. will be introduced in ukraine, but it is not yet completely clear, y in what format it will be implemented. mr. volodymyr, you talk about the fact that you have always been a supporter of this economic

defense, but when it is for companies, not for individuals, when it is not an individual who is being bought out, a legal company pays, that is the meaning, well, let's put it this way, if there is a fop, then he has at least five employees and he can book his employees and... for everyone, so that they are booked and work in the enterprise, this, i understand that this idea is not very well accepted by the government , and the office of the president, solely because it creates unequal opportunities, or creates a certain, shall we say, social tension, because people who do not work, or people who do not work in such companies, who are willing to work for someone, they will be in unequal conditions, that is there will be some. mobilized, and others will simply pay into the budget, well, conditionally speaking, this military levy and be calm, but now, what is the injustice, because they mobilize those without any payments to the budget,

they mobilize those who legally work for the same new post office, at the same metallurgical ones factories, at various legal enterprises, that's what's unfair, the state doesn't get any money and takes people who work legally, but you, who doesn't work legally... works in the shadows, they're not taken for some reason, and that's unfair, that's what should cause, let's say this, about social tension, these are mobilization methods, but if you want to relieve social tension, engage in mobilization methods, regarding dissatisfaction, i don't know what the president's office thinks, i haven't heard their opinion, but regarding the cabinet of ministers, my opinion is that there are people who decide manually the issue of mobilization, or rather in armor. from mobilization in manual mode, that's where exactly the same lobbying is, and i'm afraid that these people simply make banal money on this, and that's why we need

simple mechanisms so that some person in the cabinet does not decide the issue of reservation, there was a clear mechanism, which professions, for example, how many drivers are needed at the front, how many drivers are needed in the rear, how many doctors are needed at the front, how many in the rear, it is not... business, but institutions, state, well , social institutions in general, but for of business yes, it is necessary to give an opportunity, they want to keep the minimum of their employees, critically necessary, yes, well, if you have the opportunity to pay additional money for these employees, it is normal, and the state will benefit from this, and the business will benefit from this, and the money they appear for the front, and this is fair, but when they take those who work legally, the state does not get a penny. does not receive, and social injustice still exists due to bad mobilization methods, this is unfair, mr. maksym, it is clear that

now there is this shadow circulation of this military collection, but it does not get into the budget, that is, if you take into account that several hundred thousand men went abroad and in some way, different way, through the yew tree, through bousiks , some kind of... , because of the way of the time , such a system was big enough when people tried to avoid mobilization, went to the west and did not come back, could it be that this idea of ​​economic reservation may not pass solely because there is a large layer of illegal, illegal, illegal ways. uh, avoiding mobilization, and that this, this big win , no one wants to share this big win, because if there is

an opportunity for the company to get its employees, let's say, not engage in illegal smuggling of people across the border, so that they were engaged in legal smuggling through the road, the same system worked and it allowed, small campaigns were engaged in this, it was engaged in, excuse me, banal corruptors, both in public structures and in our state structures, when i spoke about large companies, i had on in mind not the company from the point of view of structure, and companies of people, big companies that make money from it. mr. maksym, do you think that this could become an obstacle in the implementation of this mechanism? well, this story is not new, after all, this analogy with the legalization of prostitution, to be honest, also occurred to me , but i did not voice it for ethical reasons. in general, it can be defined as

a certain... corruption rent or corruption market, whatever you call it, it exists in most spheres of our life, economic, social and so on, but it is a pity, that it has spread, so to speak, to the sphere of homeland protection, i see that we have a consensus, an understanding that in this conversation, that such a market exists and we should not turn a blind eye to it, but there is a question that... what about this to do, i would still suggest approaching this issue from the head, that is , starting with the fact that the cabinet of ministers, the ministry of defense, local authorities begin to fulfill their duties, in particular , they begin to forecast and plan what personnel are needed , for which industries, for which areas, that's what the doctors and

defense workers were talking about. enterprises, i don’t know, educators, well , all the categories that are socially recognized as useful and necessary for the peaceful part of our life, but they must, so to speak, be agreed upon and a decision made at the administrative level, what if this does not happen , then the question is to partially legalize the corruption market in this area, it will not solve the problem, of course, when... you can, so to speak, bring money to the wrong representative of the tsc, directly to the head of your enterprises in order for him to ban you, well, of course, this is a simpler, easier and safer way, but the effects are social, including military, how will it affect mobilization, they will not be

positive, except that... yes, certain, so to speak, criminal-corruption chains may be broken, but, mobilization, the return of the motherland will ultimately become a matter of such, you know, social consequences, but these effects must also be taken into account, thank you, mr. maksym, mr. volodymyr, you wanted to reflect on something, yes, i was just saying that we should start by eliminating this mess and that... this manual reservation system, that's where the problem is, i said about it that this is the first thing that needs to be done, exactly there is not just a mess here, but i suspect there is huge corruption there , nevertheless, i do not agree with the fact that it is about the fact that there is criminal rent, corruption, and the state wants to take this money for itself, i think that there is banal, let's put it this way, there is a desire to find agreement, agreement with

business, legal... systemic ukrainian business, i can...