thank you so much for such an incredible trip, it will never be forgotten in my heart. let's together give memories that will warm hearts and help to survive these difficult and scary moments. every week, the saturday political club helps to understand the processes taking place in ukraine and the world. vitaly portnikov, khrystyna yatskiv and invited experts based on facts give their assessment and forecast of the development of events. if you want to understand how our today will affect our tomorrow, watch the saturday politics club, every saturday on espresso. congratulations, friends, in a straight line ether of the espresso channel, the second part of the

verdict program. today we have a traditional journalism club. my name is serhii ordenko, and today we will talk about the following. peaceful deviations of the aggressor. putin demands to hand over four regions of ukraine to him, for whom the dictator's appeals to nato countries are intended, to jointly build a new system of global security in eurasia. reconstruction without those responsible. the berlin conference on the restoration of ukraine took place against the background of personnel scandals in the ukrainian government. how to restore the trust of partners? mobilization tension in society scandals between the tcc and citizens do not subside. will economic booking help to resolve the internal conflict. about this and about. in the next 45 minutes

we will talk with my colleagues, i want to introduce them, this is olga musahirova, a correspondent of the new newspaper europe in ukraine, olga, i congratulate you, and andrii yanitsky, my colleague, a journalist of the espresso tv channel. friends, before we start our conversation, i suggest you, those who watch us on youtube, vote in our poll. today we ask you about whether victory is possible ukraine without putin's capitulation? everything is quite simple on youtube: yes, no, or your own version. if you have, write in the comments, if you watch us on tv, pick up your smartphone or phone and vote, if you think that the victory of ukraine is possible without the capitulation of putin, 0800 211 381, no, 0800 211 382, ​​all calls to these numbers are free, vote, at the end of the program we will sum up the results of this vote, well , on the same issue and will remain a dictator in the future in his country, well, and create sanitary this is the story, we see how our

western partners are constantly late, and with help, so there is no faith in this scenario, but today, why, why are we actually asking, to our tv viewers, i will explain that today the russian dictator once again repeated about , which is allegedly ready for peace talks, but for this ukraine must withdraw its troops from all of them. regions occupied by the russians, that is, not the russians should leave these regions, but the armed forces should leave, which the kremlin already considers its territories. let's listen to what putin said. and these conditions are very simple: ukrainian troops must be completely withdrawn from donetsk, luhansk, kherson and zaporizhzhia regions. moreover, i draw attention to this, precisely from the entire territory of these regions within their administrative borders, which existed on... as soon as kyiv will announce

that they are ready for such a decision and will begin the actual withdrawal of troops from these regions, as well as officially inform about rejection of plans to join nato, and from our side immediately, literally at the same minute, an order will come to cease fire and start negotiations. well putin's translation is much. was more emotional and correctly done than how boringly putin voiced it, but if we talk seriously about it, then this is another ultimatum for world peace and a peaceful ultimatum in quotation marks for the world and ukraine, because we remember how on december 15, 21 putin also issued an ultimatum in 2015, how does this ultimatum differ from the ultimatum of 21. this year, well, i would

say that this ultimatum, this speech before, if i am not mistaken, the ministry of foreign affairs of the russian federation. is, in my opinion, caused by that a peace summit is being held in switzerland, where , of course, russia was not invited and could not be invited, but before the summit, well, it happened, and i think that it did not happen by chance, a whole series of significant events took place, and i i think to myself, if all these events... were connected with real sanctions, with those things, there are bilateral security agreements, everything else, if all this had happened more than two years ago, would the situation have developed to such a tragic

end, on in general, we and the world are now, eh. this is a false start from mine on the other hand, putin agreed, because, of course, he says, this summit is worthless, why is it worthless, because russia will not be there, and everyone, therefore, is gathering, those who actually do not seek peace, but seek the continuation of the war , the death of the ukrainian people, about which he is very worried, and here he is proposing... general measures, but when we look at all these theses that he expresses, then i can agree with those colleagues who are already suggesting on social networks that today is the

reference point when the real agony began of the kremlin regime, i rather agree with this, because there is such a concentration of categorical statements, and at the same time, all the time it is repeated about russia's readiness for peace negotiations, with one hand he threatens almost with a nuclear baton, and with the other he says: but we are open to peace negotiations with ukraine, well, the truth is that zelensky is not the president, he is illegitimate, well, the truth is that we have such and such conditions, but all the time he breaks through, well, that’s enough, humiliation on the day, on the day of june 12 in the day of russia, the states impose sanctions, well, this, this is not possible it was imaginable even a year ago, yes, that is, it is

true that all these old principles of international partnership. or cooperation, they no longer exist, and therefore he is practically, practically hysterical, that you will gather tomorrow without inviting russia, so i will tell you how it will go on, well, the perception is appropriate, and there is already information that it is the day before same global peace summit is taking place, that there will be 100 delegations, 57 heads of state and government, 29 ministers of foreign affairs, six countries have sent. its authorized representatives, that is such a solid representative conference and this summit will be held tomorrow, but in putin's performance, peace and peaceful initiatives are a sign of equality, war, that is, what he is saying, if he is saying: "give us

the four regions of ukraine that we have already took away and give us guarantees, and give us guarantees that you will be a neutral state, a non-nuclear state outside of nato, it still means war, because hardly anyone in ukraine will agree to this, of course, he offers such conditions , which are not even worth discussing because he lost the only one the regional center, which captured kherson after the 22nd year, and now it has been standing in the same place for more than a year, and unfortunately, during the counteroffensive to the crimea, the ukrainian troops did not push back, at least the russian troops, that's why.. . the situation is deadlocked, but in my opinion, time is playing into our hands, because the military forces of ukraine are increasing, we are waiting for planes, and putin, of course, is trying to somehow protect himself, that is, it is rather a sign of his weakness, in my opinion, well and about such statements of his, well

, not exactly putin's, in general about russian statements and calls for negotiations, the late dzhakhar dudayev, president of tichkiri, said very well. that when russia feels weak, then it offers negotiations, after that it regroups, looks for weak points in its opponents and attacks again, so it is clear that there is no point in going to any negotiations there, well, the ministry of foreign affairs of ukraine made a reaction, i would expand it, to be honest, i will quote the ministry of foreign affairs of ukraine, how it responded that all these initiatives are aimed at disrupting the participation of the country's leaders in the global peace summit in switzerland, and the appearance of putin's statements on the same day before the start of the summit shows that russia is afraid of real peace. in response to putin, i would make a list of what we offer. for peace, i.e. you are releasing four, i.e. the reverse has been done, they voiced

their own, denazification of russia, demilitarization of russia, denuclearization, deputinization, i.e. i would turn this whole story upside down, i would say, well, we are ready, but our conditions are like this, and maybe our diplomacy, well, maybe they don't want to troll putin and make similar statements before the global peace summit. but it would right, because when he talks about giving me the four regions that we 've already captured, you're just rambling, and what's that anyway, and what kind of peace is this, if you've already bitten off the four regions, you want us to there was no army, so that we did not have nato, and that we accepted all your concessions, because he thinks that this is peace, but it is interesting that peace negotiations have begun. this is actually in the public sphere, that is, the parties have voiced their positions, well , ukraine will voice tomorrow, and well, in principle, we know which

the positions are ukrainian, this is not what happened in istanbul, when no one knew what was happening there, and the text appeared later, already after an attempt at negotiations, it seems to me that such open public diplomacy, it is much fairer, and it is clear for the citizens, this diplomacy, ulya, i think, gives an answer to why russia is not at this global peace summit. oh, and what is there to negotiate with them, that is, he made a false start, in principle, actually, and i wanted to say about it, which is probably the case, i do not agree with you, serhiy, that our ministry of foreign affairs has nothing to do with him in the polemic, and everything that putin says, he imagines that he is present at the summit in switzerland, where he was not invited, baba yaga came anyway, and here i will tell you what... say whatever you want , you are illegitimate as

president, well, that is known, yes, putin is just a usurper of power, and ukraine does not enter into negotiations with putin, unless it is negotiations about the capitulation of russia, what can we talk about , well, with this person who calls himself the president, let him call himself what he wants. especially since the packages of sanctions that are currently on happiness is great, both the states and britain gave russia a gift, well, he has something to think about, and a person starts talking about the ukrainian regions where russian troops entered, and on this basis they have already become russian regions, well, well, well, he well, what kind of controversy can there be with that. not crazy, because it turns out that he is proposing that the entire world community agree and record in

an agreement, in a security treaty for russia, that putin did the right thing when he took away a part of the state, and that part of the state is probably like several european countries, in general, for the territories, that is, he wants the world to record and put his signature and say that okay, everything is fine, and then, then, different stories begin all over the world, because such stories, when there one state claims the territory of another , there are many, chaos begins, because international legal relations cease to work, well, andriy, it seems to me that he does not think so deeply, that he is a bit like a bandit, he always shouts, that he is a lawyer and graduated from the faculty of law, lawyers, there are legalists and those who simply read the laws there according to... according to the letter, but not about the spirit of the law, they do not think about justice and not about the justice of the court, but are looking for

clues, how to use these norms, to their advantage, yes he is rather such a legalist, and a literalist, and as for his proposals, it looks like a bandit’s habit of simply taking a punt, and what is it called, well, he comes out and tries to intimidate you, and he already says: what this is the last offer, there will be no further offers it will be worse, let's agree to what i offer you, and if you give some slack, then it is clear that he will eat. and these four oblasts, and the next four oblasts, and so on until there is nothing left of ukraine at all, and we saw that on the day of russia they launched some kind of propaganda video, where moldova also got there, and ukraine, in colors, in russian colors in fact, the entire area of ​​the former soviet union, maybe only the baltic countries, for the balki,

with the exception of the baltic states, with the exception of the countries the baltic states, their goals are clear, they do not need any ukraine. neither in a composition without four regions, nor with these regions, it's all cossacks, what, what he offers, well, but olya, andriy correctly says that he behaves like gopniks, like a bandit leader, he repeats this phrase quite often , that 30 years ago the st. petersburg police station raised me, if a fight is inevitable, it must be. first, that is , he articulates his philosophy of life quite often, but in this situation what he does is not tyranny, it is terrorism and pure terrorism in relation to ukraine, in relation to the whole world, because it intimidates nuclear weapons, it is terrorism, and terrorists are dealt with very simply all over the world, no one talks to them, does not agree on anything, but

what is he actually counting on? that is, he is not afraid that he will be attacked as a terrorist. that is, i have to answer, is putin not afraid, yes, well, i am trying to explain, or find an answer with you to a simple question, why is a person not afraid that he will be killed simply as a typical terrorist, how do you do it, how is it done in the world , well, it's just elementary, maybe he is afraid, well, how can we know that, well, okay, after all, a person, a person with a completely... healthy psyche, i wouldn't call him now, among dictators who are guided by the idea of ​​a fix, and there the idea of ​​a fix - grabbing more space for the empire, they have a changed consciousness, and it can no longer be called so human, i am not a psychiatrist, but it seems to me

that this is very far from the norm of a normal such conscious person. man, well, he is progressing in this, in this direction, and i didn’t just answer your question on the blitz, that’s why that, of course, there is putin's entourage, there are elites, it is difficult to get into the heads of these elites, because they became elites thanks to their proximity to putin and resources. they supported, they are equally responsible for the war with ukraine, but everyone has their own red line, and i would rather think about what is now in the minds of the entourage of putin's wallets, those people who support

the regime with their powerful shoulders and finances , they are not afraid. they don't have children, they don't have wives, mistresses, real estate around the world, well, he's a bunker rat who's being herded into corner, they do not want to be bunker rats, they want to live as they are used to, and this situation leads only to the complete catastrophic isolation of russia, well, unless there are roosters there... korea, because china cannot be taken into account to name the current schedules, of course, chinese officials will now point the finger at russian officials, so go here, don't go here, do this, don't do that, well, because yuan, yes, that's already clear, and about this closest and

richest entourage of putin, well, it's unlikely that you can... like it, it's me leading to the fact that we ukraine must push putin's entourage for this, i don't know how to do it, if i knew, i would advise, but i would not reject such an option, that is, for us, in principle, any option, of course, of course, we we are not talking about a person who does not bypass us at all, who will leave after him, but... the situation is in chaos, without putin in russia now, she would, she would add pluses to this, finally. such progress, which is already demonstrated by the states and western countries, in principle, yes, they stopped going to such

half-measures, but just every day the good day, you get up and you're glad that oh my god, well, there's this or this meme or saying that the states always make the right decision in the end, but only after they've... tried all the wrong decisions for two-plus years , then delaying armaments for ukraine, then less money for weapons, then procrastination with important decisions, and here recently, there have been such statements and actions for which, well, ukraine has been waiting for a very long time, this already speaks from my point of view about. .. that, well, the same free world finally realized that, well,

balancing between containing russia and supporting ukraine further no, it will not work, here it is necessary to clearly take the side of the country that suffers from the fascist regime, and this ukraine suffers from putin's. fascist regime and do everything so that this regime, well, has no chance of victory, he wants to have a chance not only of victory, putin, i mean, he attempted to build a new system of ensuring global security in eurasia, calling to join it and nato countries. we have a small fragment of what the russian dictator said. let's listen. in the end because the selfishness and hubris of western powers have led to the current extremely dangerous state of affairs, we have come unacceptably close

to the point of no return. obviously, we are witnessing the collapse of the euro-atlantic security system. today it simply does not exist, it must actually be created anew. all this requires us and our partners, together with all interested countries, and there are many of them. we destroyed the entire security system that existed in the world and all the agreements that were after the second world war, and now we will build a new security system, and those who those who want, stay with us, those who don't want, stay with nato, and here, if i drown, you will drown with me, well , the multipolar world is trying... it will work out, well , probably there is a three-polar or four-polar, four -polar, and he is trying to gather around him

states that are loyal or dependent on him, we see that, unfortunately, in some countries he succeeds, how georgia is changing literally before our eyes, and this it's just unfortunate that the law on foreign agents has already been adopted there put forward... a bill on the banning of lgbt plus propaganda, and in fact they are following the same methods that russia has adopted, only much faster, and the same, i think, that he is going to do in moldova and in other countries where he will be able to get an electoral victory, but the elections are just right, well , what is the weakness of democratic countries, we know that these democratic processes can be influenced by authoritarian regimes from the outside and, unfortunately, here are the results of the european parliament elections, where we we see an increase in representatives of radical forces, which traditionally are sponsored from russia, says that in

european countries, the right or the left are radical ideas, they are popular, they are planted through propaganda, through social networks, intolerance, hatred, spread on tiktok, on other platforms and... as a result, we see such the results, as in the european parliament, and now the situation in france is very dangerous, the parliament has been dissolved, there will be re-elections, and uh, on the one hand, we can hope that the french will sober up, come to the elections, demonstrate a high turnout and vote for moderate pro-european forces, but if this does not happen and there is a repeat of the results of the elections to the european parliament, then there will be more radicals in the parliament, this is unlikely to be a change. the security system in europe or in the world, that is, stone by stone , he is trying to destroy the european project as a whole, but we

are still trying to build it. to rebuild ukraine, to restore, i wanted to propose one more topic, let's discuss it very briefly, because this forum is about the relationship of ukraine in germany, it was announced a long time ago, and the day before of this forum, mustafa nayem, our former colleague, and now his, also the head of the agency for the reconstruction of ukraine submitted his resignation, and this was quite a serious step on the eve of such a forum, a specialized specialist cannot go to... to the forum and shmygal him refused, but we had ivanna klimpushaze on the air yesterday, and she says that what happened with nayem, with his resignation, how he slammed the door, that it could lead to a loss of trust of partners, let's listen to what ivana klimpusha said , this scandal obviously made it worse

settings one at a time. to ukraine and the seriousness of the intentions of, say, those countries or companies that would be ready to talk about some current investments, about serious programs, projects, well, including aid and recovery. olya, maybe, maybe we put a lot of emphasis on the fact that there is mustafa and it all revolves around mustafa, but still what nayim did, he is a person that... western diplomats look to, and he is a marker in to zelenskyi's team, no matter what, and this is also a step, and this is also a demonstration of what is happening in ukraine, i am ready to say about it, you know, it doesn't surprise me anymore, because both social networks and the media drew attention to this situation at the peak of the scandal, here is such a statement

by mustafa and such a resolution. shmygalya, and what happened next, no one is interested in principle, very interesting things happened next, well, because many people said, well, now he will quietly go into the forest, no reports, nothing, he will go abroad, that's it 12 on the 1st, er, i refer to yemo's telegram channel, he reported on his work in great detail. with presentations, there were infographics, there were, well, such remarks that, let's say, the restoration and protection of energy facilities was underfunded, that is, it was financed only by a quarter, there were specific criticisms of the government and mr.

shmygal personally. .. in such a decent situation, now i would like to hear what the prime minister has to say about this, because here is the report you asked for, and there are a lot of well-founded claims, maybe i missed it, but i didn't see the answer mr. shmyhal, instead i read what was on this one conference, and the conference was recognized as successful, ukraine signed. more than a hundred and many multilateral agreements, i apologize for what mrs. klympus tsintsadze says is a scandalous situation and a loss of trust, that is, it is necessary to come to an agreement on the shore, so the hire did not work well, lost trust and they did not give us anything, no, they gave us more than we expected , she talked about the loss of trust that...