land occupied by the russians, but it is simple, i say, this is the logic of the middle east conflict, why it cannot be resolved, because, say, there, the main idea of ​​the palestinian movement, and this brings it closer to russia, is not the denial of israel's right to existence, you can sit down, as it has happened a million times, draw some maps, do something there, there will be so much here, there will be so much here, there will be such control, here there will be... all kinds of control, then a simple thing is proposed, and let's you recognize israel's right to exist, well, no one is peaceful for such political power the so-called palestinian population will not vote, it will lose the elections, and because of that, there is no way to solve it, just to achieve a ceasefire, which is currently happening in the near future, and don't you think that putin is actually trying to achieve that with such statements. .. a cease-fire, that is, he

raises the stakes here, look, we claim that part of kherson region, zaporizhzhia, donetsk region that is not occupied, but, listen, let's go to some kind of peace conference, yes, and let's say we agree on, i think, that it is not quite so, andrei, he creates platform for such an opportunity, if the need arises, he does not believe that he should have any victories with ukraine. he believes that he can dictate a certain decision if he has this need. for him, ukraine is not a subject of negotiations, but simply some territory there, conditionally speaking, which is under the control of the west, and he can offer the west such an option if he needs it at the moment, if he decides that there will be a further war, it is not, it cannot happen, let's say, the war must freeze, and i am the president zelenskyi says, we can't

afford to freeze the conflict until... putin can't either now, but this is not a case when he decides that he can, that the conflict can be frozen, and that in this situation of freezing the conflict on the contact line, wherever it takes place then, it will be a better case for ukraine than the continuation of hostilities. that 's all. how should the west react to it, or how will the west react to it? these statements, and how should ukraine react, and we see how the west reacts to any statements, the west increases rates, the west strengthens sanctions against russia, the west allows ukraine to strike with american and other western weapons on the territory of the russian federation, the west supplies v-16, the west is thinking of increasing the supply of air defense systems, and what can another west afford? he cannot recognize

the fact that the regions of ukraine are occupied by the russian federation and are the territory of russia, how can he do that? even if someone had a great desire, it is impossible because it undermines international law, you can see that even those countries that are in better relations with the russian federation, let's say, the country of the global rooster, they do not say, let us sell, let ukraine recognize its occupied regions, a part. well, even china does not say that, it does not say, it says that we want the cessation of hostilities and further negotiations, but here is this idea, even no, china will never say that, because for china the very idea that it recognizes the annexation of foreign territory is dangerous in terms of its own territorial disputes with other countries, i.e. no country, only some country which completely dependent on moscow, can afford the luxury of recognizing... occupied

ukrainian regions as russian, but again, what kind of country should it be? here is oleksandr lukashenko, he was in crimea, he says all the time: invite me to crimea, i will go to crimea, i will fly to crimea through russian airspace, but i will not fly there, uh, it has been 10 years since lukashenko, who can just be driven across the table with his face, but not even him, he was even forced to meet with the president of abkhazia, he met in private. the truth of the order of the president of self-proclaimed abkhazia, aslan bjania, he came to see him in minsk, but abkhazia is a self-proclaimed sovereign state, and a meeting with its leader may appear to be within the framework of some kind of peaceful effort, the search for dialogue, whatever, although he did not recognize her independence, he was just holding a private meeting, but no. does not

talk with the head of state, there were no flags there, you understand, and he still did not recognize abkhazia and south ossetia, did not open belarusian embassies there, it would seem, lukashenko. then the question arises who can force it to admit? north korea, well , north korea is not something to force, north korea can north korea, i think, recognized the independence of the dpr, lpr. but she did not recognize their fact of joining the russian federation, they did not make any statements on this matter. well, as they say, everything, everything, everything in the future you can, well, it's true, but you see, but even they don't do it. the republic of south ossetia, maybe it is... they recognized both that and the other somewhere, but it is also not a state, at the level of states that have places in the united nations organization, it is very difficult to do everything, and putin knows this very well, and therefore it is very important for him that ukraine itself, but if ukraine recognizes its

regions as russian, this opens the possibility for wide recognition of other borders of the russian federation, as you say, from an international point of view, but also. you know, you know, this is also a question, because many countries may believe that ukraine did it under duress, and still will not recognize it, if we are talking about sanctions, an interesting thing, i asked about this mr. volodymyr orysk, and here we are back to the sanctions pressure, and this week this sanctions pressure, it has significantly increased, because the united states of america has imposed sanctions against a number of legal entities and individuals of russia, and by the way. against the moscow stock exchange, we saw what was happening there, as well as against a number of legal entities, china, turkey and a number of other countries there, which as third parties supplied

russia with certain parts, certain products, which are now prohibited for supply on the territory the occupying power. new sanctions like you... them do you also assess what might be the next such powerful sanctioned strike against russia, which could cause, well, if not devastating damage, then at least significant damage. i think that there may be many more such steps, they are clearly in the american arsenal. and in general , the introduction of sanctions against mosbirzh shows that the americans are not just getting impatient little by little, but that they are taking a whole series of different decisions to show that they will act more harshly. that is, how if you are unable to listen to us, we will act without any regard for the consequences our actions this is not only, i say again, this is not only a sanction, this is permission to strike on russian territory, and by the way, what was said in berlin about the need to supply more air defense systems and so on and so forth. i think that

all this is in the logic of escalation, you see, these two, well, almost two and a half years, yes, it will be 2.5 years in august, they took place within the framework of the fact that russia... raised rates every day, and the west kept saying, let's be careful not to let a serious one happen escalation, now there is no, by the way, it started two years later, two years of the great war ended, and french president emmanuel macron, in fact, the first among western leaders, said that he wants russia to live in a situation of strategic uncertainty , because until this moment the west itself was living in a situation of strategic uncertainty, and now it can be said that they have all changed roles, now russia is also living in a situation of strategic uncertainty by and large, the russians do not know what will be used against them next, or will some western missiles and bombs fall on their heads, will foreign

troops appear in ukraine, probably not, but then again, what is no, when they could have said before, probably not about western weapons, however, if they asked their generals, and they can hit us with yakimo. missiles, but no, well, they will be afraid of each other, that there is nothing to even think about, it turned out that there is something, and this happened because the west stopped being afraid of russia, yes, that is, i don't think that he was afraid, i think he thought the russians would come to the understanding that they cannot fulfill their goals, that these goals, which putin has set for himself regarding the absorption of ukraine, are unattainable, and therefore it is necessary to agree on some... positions that will fix this fact, let's say this, and putin is not ready to understand it, well, if he is not ready to understand it, he will be made to understand it by various means, from economic to military. that's the whole story. and china, we see that here

gradually, very carefully, very small steps, after all, the united states of america, not europe, but the united states of america, not european union they are trying to put pressure on china, that is , with such small microsteps, such small, small movements, to send messages that, well, listen... there is no need to help russia, china will react to this somehow, at least now we do not observe that there is such reaction, this will mean that the united states, perhaps allies of the united states of america , will increase this pressure on china. i think that this is due to the same attitude towards moscow that we talked about with you. do you understand? when the secretary of state of the united anthony blinken of the united states was in beijing, he publicly...warned the president of the people's republic of china sidzheng pinnes that if chinese companies continue to do

business with moscow, the united states will do what china is not doing, let china itself end cooperation of their companies with the russian federation. as far as i understand, the american secretary of state was not heard, was not heard precisely from this point of view, from which putin did not hear, does not hear the west. the west will not dare, they will not be able to. it is not profitable for them they will be careful, these are not exactly sanctions against china, as you understand, well yes, these are sanctions against chinese companies that cooperate with russia, but with russia it was also like that at first, of course, the 14th year, of course, yes, this signal, by the way, if we read this communiqué of the group of seven, the cooperation between russia and china is mentioned in the part that talks about the war in ukraine, and it is mentioned about... let's talk about china. and by the way, there is another very important decision, which is

the introduction of a european customs duty on a chinese electric car. up to 10% duty, which existed until now, added another 38% duty. well, now imagine that you are sidzimpin, that you feel how many billions of dollars are floating past you on the river, on the yangtze river. there is even a blow to companies that are residents. of the european union, for example, germany, we know that in germany, which is dumb, that german car manufacturers are in china, that is, they have their factories, and there too, although not so significant, but the customs duty is also, and by the way, olaf scholz tried to do everything possible to resist this decision, and in his it was his birthday, they sang happy birthday to him there, olaf, everyone there stroked his fox, everyone was very friendly, but at the same time they absolutely did not agree with his proposals to postpone this decision, and now,

as you can see, he also has to block sanctions against russia in the european union, now germany is blocking the sanctions, not hungary, because it is again afraid that the introduction of new sanctions may hit its own business, but i am sure that this resistance of germany will be overcome, because we live in a completely new logic, if... talk about the peace summit, an event that is happening right now, and by the way, you can watch a live broadcast from switzerland now in our half-window, the speeches are taking place, the heads of various states, so the event is important, extremely important, and we have already determined it, but we understand very well that the peace summit will not lead to peace, well i think that is important here. you see , we don't need to call security agreements an agreement on security guarantees, because this is not

a security guarantee at all, it is an agreement that stipulates that the states that sign them with ukraine they will help ukraine in the event of future wars with the russian federation, and this is not bad, because it is better than not helping, because we understand that it is still in the future, again, if we do not step into nato there will be many, they will be destructive , they will be brutal, and the more weapons and aid we have, the more... the more likely it is that russia will either localize these wars, or not wage them, because again, the russians do not attack the strong, the same and the peace summit, if it were to be called a support summit, may not have invited anyone of conflicting emotions. it is absolutely obvious that the peace summit in switzerland cannot lead to peace, i think i explained in this program why a peace agreement between russia and ukraine is unattainable, and the idea of ​​peace as a political one. the decision must be left in one's own head for the next decades of the 21st century

, there will be no peace between russia and ukraine, peace between russia and ukraine is not achievable, but the greater the support of ukraine from the world, the greater the chance, firstly, of a high- intensity war in a low intensity war, and that means fewer casualties in the coming years, and that means fewer bombings, and that means fewer casualties, and that means... a return to more normality of life in the 20s and 30s of the 21st century, and secondly, it may mean ending the war, of low intensity, it is clear that no one likes the logic behind the conflict, but when we all come to the conclusion that the freezing of the conflict may be the only chance for survival for both ukraine and russia, we can in principle see that in that the situation in which we we are, we can achieve our goals, but the freezing can also be on different conditions, you see, the freezing in which we will receive security guarantees is not at all the

freezing in which we do not receive them, because what is the freezing of the conflict with guarantees security, ukraine is invited to nato. security guarantee for these territories that we control at the moment, it is important that they are larger than now, but that too, in a war, no one can say what will happen in the future, but this basically means that we let's go out on the track of returning our territories politically , and we are part of the defense union, and our allies will also do everything to ensure that these territories are returned politically. way, which means the pressure on russia will continue even after this cease-fire, or there is another freezing of the conflict, which is simply a cease- fire, we will get nothing, except for these agreements, which promise us that the next time you are attacked in half a year , or in a year, then we will give you weapons sooner, that is, it is a matter of survival, because we we understand that this is a war - this is a war that will

answer the question of whether in the coming years there will be a ukrainian state on the political map of the world, or whether the russian federation will cover all its borders and begin to implement the project of the soviet union 2:0. this is all a very simple thing, a thing that can turn into new millions of refugees and new hundreds of thousands of victims. this is also a reality. this means that the greater the support of the world, the less chance russia will have to freeze the conflict on its own terms. it's a very simple, simple formula. 56 on this peace summits of heads of state, presidents, prime ministers, some of the heads according to the constitution of this country, defined as follows, we are now seeing the speech of president macron, which means that in fact only those who consider themselves to such a civilized

world, to of the western world, yes, but if we are talking about a part of up to 30 representatives there, these are ministers of foreign affairs or of a lower category, by the way, this also refers to the civilized world, there are allies of the west in various regions of the world, we have seen president of kenya, i think he is was the second or the third, whether the president of argentina or the head of ghana, they are the first, well, let's say that now argentina is trying to classify itself as civilized correctly, the civilized world is not geography, it is values, that is, we are not really talking here about the fact that... everyone who is west of ukraine is there, but less so, we talked about the fact that some of the representatives who are currently at the global peace summit may not agree, may not sign, this is possible that is, that is, after all, some number of countries, relatively speaking, will be limited only to presence, but presence

is support, what documents will be signed there does not matter, these documents do not mean anything in particular, do not mean anything. of course, because what was important for russia was not what would be signed there, but who would come there, russia is absolutely uninterested in the content of any documents of the summit in switzerland, russia can only consider the fact that someone is present there as a fact of support of ukraine, because if ukraine organizes a peace summit and you come there, and russia tells you not to go there, that is not summit, ugh, that he does not decide anything, that there is no need to go there, that zelensky is illegitimate, and you are here... going, then who do you support? of course, if you lower the level of presence, then you can bow to russia, as the presidents of brazil , south africa did, well, in general, the president of south africa was taken over today, i 'm sorry, i don't really understand how he

came, even if i wanted to, he would need to at least become the president again, and then go somewhere else, right? well, it is already valid, it was re-elected today for the second term term, but why did i mention the president of south africa, the assassin afos, this is also an important point that we may not notice, but today the re-elected president of south africa, whom you know, has always treated putin with more respect than westerners leaders, but he was re -elected in exchange for the creation of a government of national unity with the party whose leader was in ukraine during the war, came on his own initiative, met, he came to lviv, i think he met with the leader. lviv regional administration with the mayor of lviv, andrii sadov, and he said that this is an unjust war, that russia occupied ukraine, that south africa should

support ukraine more seriously, and this person was then the leader of the opposition, and now the logic of the government of national unity, of course, leads to that south african politics itself will begin to change, it just needs to be realized towards a greater understanding of our vision of war, because cyril. phosa, if he wants to sit in the chair of the president of the country, in the chair of the president of the country, i will convince him that he wants, who does not want, they say, if you have already been president, then he will take such points into account, and this will happen in many places, because the political process itself dictates a change in priorities, so we are now saying that marine le pen can win the parliamentary elections in france, her party is national unity, but earlier this would have been an accurate diagnosis of what is winning... russian political power, but now marin lifen makes pro-ukrainian statements, says that russia has carried out the occupation of ukrainian

lands, speaks practically, not with such strong statements like president macron, but with roughly the kind of statements that macron advocated two years ago, and which were considered strong at the time, it means that everyone realized that this is the way to go, that russia is on the right side of history and... those who want to be with her, they also find themselves outside this side and outside the possibility of civilized cooperation with the west, the majority of economic potential is still concentrated in the west, these are the people who met with zelensky at the summit near brindisi, they are definitely the people who control their governments , most of the world's economy, despite such a large number. population in china, india, after all, most of the world economy is the seven, not china, and for now, even those who have other political values ​​and priorities will have to reckon with it.

glory to ukraine, dear ones. viewers, on the air of espresso tv channel, studio zahid program, we will analyze the most important events of this week, in particular, how international politics may or may not affect russian aggression against ukraine, and of course, we will to analyze the so-called alternative summits that are being talked about in beijing and moscow. our guests today are roman bezsmertny and andriy pionkovskyi. and now roman bezsmertny, an iconic ukrainian politician and diplomat, will work on espresso tv channel. glory to ukraine, sir. rman, i congratulate you, heroes, glory, i congratulate you. mr. roman, the swiss summit, history is extremely important, we understand that not all issues that should be discussed there publicly and

get to kumenike will be there. but on the other hand, we understand that there will be another part non-public, and we understand that our friends and allies will shape their agenda, which, unfortunately, is not accepted by china, and china wants to create or wait for a situation when... there will be a need to create a so-called other summit with the participation, in particular, russia, this is the official position of beijing, and accordingly i would like to ask you, well, the threats here are obvious, what are the possible solutions, how should we do it right, well, because the swiss summit is mainly our allies or states neutral to us, but there are also russia and china, which will be try to push your agenda, mr. antin, if you look at this week that we have now passed, starting, let's say, from the press conference of viola amhert, the president of switzerland and what she said

after the summit, and the reaction that was from beijing, from moscow, the reaction that was heard at the meeting of foreign ministers of the brics countries on the preparation of the upcoming summit, first of all, we must thank the swiss, they are very... already maturely carrying out their powers, that is, they keep in touch with everyone, not with who not they rush in and don't close the door, you have to give credit here, and it's obvious that this is a school, this is a decade of the position that switzerland takes, and they know how to do it, and i would not scold them very much for what the minister of foreign affairs said there ignacio's business about what is happening today and what will happen tomorrow with russia... you see, i wouldn't quarrel here, because this is switzerland, and these are the swiss, they should be thanked for what they are doing. now, as for this side? i am convinced of that, as the meeting

of ministers. of foreign affairs in brics was the preparation of an alternative summit of the global peace summit was submitted, and this role should be played by the brics summit in august-september, the date of which has not yet been determined. i will remind you that we draw and proceed from the fact that there are at least five of them, and there are already 10 of them today, because the united arab ones have already joined there. emirates and saudi arabia, and egypt, and ethiopia, and at this meeting that took place in moscow, they all talked about it, and i don’t attract so much attention there, here are the statements that sound calm, because here the sos summit is also added, and when they talk about it, they are currently looking at whether to do it at the brics summit or at the sos summit, but whatever,

they have dynamite, because it's the same thing. in the case of india, and here it may happen that this summit will simply fail, in principle, as soon as they start to drag the issue of an alternative conference into it, and there the disapproval of the central asian republics, everything is not as smooth there as they wanted, to hold the third summit, after russia spent trillions of rubles to the st. petersburg international conference, and now holds the brics sports... games, they are going to all industry exhibitions there, it is unlikely that they will be spent on this, china itself will not do this, so i would accept these conversations about an alternative, simply as so far , the information that needs to be followed, and i will tell you this, if it was possible to further promote this meeting that was held in moscow, the technical meeting on the preparation of the brics summit.

because for the first time in history i have seen that such importance was attached to the technical meeting the opening speech of minister lavrov, where he talked about global ideas and so on, that is why it is necessary to treat it as such for the time being, whether it will be or not, but the fact that this is an appearance, let's say a summit in switzerland and an alternative controversy... this is evidence , you know how the rome, berlin, tokyo axis was formed there at the time, and the alternatives to this are, let’s say, allies, there are three allies, vital or four, here are allies, that is , positioning, what does it indicate, what is going on if a split, this split positions and groups forces, on the one hand, is being formed into... evil, on

the other hand, the forces of good, and this only proves that the situation in the world , both at the continental and global levels , is intensifying, and in principle, this is the road, as we understand it, to the expansion of the conflict , and if we answer the question, what is this, then this is not an alternative summit, no, it is a kind of chain. as, by which they continue to keep a certain group of countries in their environment, because from the point of view of the system of relations that is currently being formed between russia, china, iran, these are all the others, like this, north korean, that sends garbage there to south korea and so on, and it is unlikely that

such a forum could be held between them. because, well, these are clearly not equal, not relative values, to arrange this for billions, as was the case in st. petersburg, when the president of zimbabwe and the president of bolivia were imprisoned together with the führer of moscow, and this was the highest achievement, i am not touching now, no , well , zimbabwe is one story, and the people's republic of china is another story, as well as its non-appearance in switzerland. they justify the fact that they see the creation of such a platform on which the victim country and the aggressor country would be represented, this worries me, because this is the official beijing position, and we understand that some countries will try to listen to or play out similar stories, we understand that this is not only a matter of pressure, but also the issue, so to speak, of the so -called countermeasures by china, which may...