let's try to use this one, how can you say a track in which not only western countries participate, but also non-western countries, but we have to be aware that it will be, that it will be uh too very not easy, and again, if we 're saying the next global summit is going to be... in two months, i think we need to clarify here what we expect from it, whether it's going to be a peace summit or whether it's going to be a level meeting advisors, or working groups will work, so that they are not created again high expectations, and then we start to get disappointed, and why didn't this, and why didn't that, again, that there were 90 countries, even 92 countries, yes, that's not bad, that... 80 countries signed the communique is good,

well, but it doesn’t end there, well, here the question is why we had inflated expectations, it’s not only us, western politicians all the time assume that russia will sooner or later be ready to negotiations, but do not explain the mechanism of russia's involvement in real negotiations, not in talks about putin's ultimatums, but about... in real negotiations in which we, ukraine, and russia would appear to be equal parties, and russia would at least accept the fact of ukraine's existence. well, i could already, i think that in western countries there would still be a turning point, if it happened, yes, but some western figures and leaders, well, the pope himself, yes, i think that he has this the breakthrough did not take place, that is, yes, there are people who continue to believe that it is necessary to sit down... to give ukraine to russia and

speak directly, as the president of switzerland has been saying all the time, that this is all being done in order to imprison russia and ukraine is not ready for direct negotiations, but what will it do, especially given putin's recent statements, that is, yes, i think that in the minds of some countries they still have a misunderstanding that one cannot simply sit down as a victim. and to agree on something that the aggressor does not want to agree on at all, that it is necessary to continue pressure, pressure in various forms, if this peace summit is, will become such a tool of pressure, maybe, well, at least partial, then it will be a plus, and if it it will simply turn into conversations about the fact that we are there at the next one we will sit in the meeting, we will invite russia, we

will also be among the participants, and we will negotiate with it, well, it is unlikely to give results, well, then the question arises, in principle, how do we assess the possibilities of international pressure on russia in the near future, how do you imagine them , i think that this pressure, well, we see from the side, from the side of the western countries, it is increasing, and in particular the fact that there will be, well... it looks like, finally, the supply of weapons to ukraine will be paid for with interest on frozen russian assets , so this is a plus, of course, which will increase in general, if military aid to ukraine, that is a plus, and that the economic sanctions will deepen, that is pressure, and my god, there may be, maybe... there may be

pressure also, let's say, in the legal sphere, well , putin's announcement, putin's announcement, putin's arrest warrant , yes, what kind of international criminal court has been implemented, but, that is , the pressure can be such, but at the moment it is not enough, so far not enough, although i listened carefully to the experts in your program, they say that it is gradually. .. it gives results and will give results, well, but it is gradual, it continues already too long, of course, we would like it faster, and what are the chances of speeding up, what is needed, what should be done in order to speed up, if we speak, well, the supply of weapons, economic, i think that this is the solution. really

about the use of frozen interest on frozen russian assets, this is a very, very good step, they gather. more weapons for ukraine, well, this is done primarily by western countries, yes, but here is the country of the global cock, we can still hope for some, some moral, moral support, well, of course, there are ways, putin is counting on that putin is counting on the fact that each of these countries will have their own national elections for western democracies. and they will one way or another affect the alignment, the alignment of forces, well, of course, the results of the elections in the united states will have colossal consequences, the results of the early parliamentary elections in france, well, here is

the truth, the president heads foreign policy and security policy, the president is his sphere of activity, but if some... some government is created with the participation of lupin, either it will be a minority government or there will be no stability in the french parliament, of course, it will make life difficult for macron as well, which will force him to, let's say, more cautious statements there, or to maneuver, if both were to be satisfied. the electorate, because the 27th election seems far away, but it will really be a test of the party of the whole party of macron, macron will no longer be the president, but will this party be able to hold on without macron? this will be a big, big question.

i want to return to the global south, you were in south africa, you spoke there with politicians, and here the question is, are we able to influence such countries as... that some serious political changes are taking place there, we somehow did not notice this change these days, cyril ramaphosa was just re-elected for a second term as president of the republic of south africa , but for this re-election, before after the last parliamentary elections, where the african national congress sar did not receive the majority of votes, he had to go to the creation of a government of national unity from the democratic alliance party, that is the liberal party, its leader john stahay. was in ukraine during the war, by the way, one of the few african politicians, not leaders of the state, namely opposition leaders, visited ukraine, was in lviv, met with politicians there, expressed support for ukraine, and if such parties have a clear position on the war get power in the countries of the global

cock, even a part of the power, can we use it? of course, i would just like to clarify here that the new... the re-elected president, he did propose a government of national unity, yes, but his pro-russian opponents, they did not agree with this, and that is why now there will be a coalition government with, first of all, this is with the democratic alliance, which takes sufficiently pro-ukrainian positions, and secondly, the second will be a partner, rather, the third partner is inkatha. the inkatha freedom party, yes, that is, it is a party based in kwazulu-natal province. so, this pro, this coalition, it will definitely be more favorable for ukraine,

that is, we, i don't think that we can expect any quick turnarounds, you know, any, but what will be. changes, i think that they, that they will be, that's why this party is really , it is permanent, by the way, it is the ruling party in the province of cape town, but i forgot whether it is the western cape or the eastern cape, but in in any case, in cape town itself, they have been in power for many years under the power of the parliament building in blue and yellow colors, that is , their position... it is pro-ukrainian, it is known, that is why there are changes, there can be changes here, of course, but these changes can be as in plus and minus, so we don't know well, for example, the president of chile borych, who is

a leftist, who takes a pro-ukrainian position, who was at the summit, but, well, it is possible that they will come in the upcoming elections. parties to power, right-wing parties to power, and then we will have to find a common language with them, that is, such an option, such an option is also possible, that is. that's why we say that democracy is always a problem, as we see it, and unfortunately, we cannot fully predict how it will develop, but we are able to influence, again, we should not overestimate our ability to influence these countries, and more moreover, we must understand that sometimes, you know, attempts to solve some problems on the spur of the moment. or to blame these countries for not supporting russia enough,

blame it on them, here it can play into the negative, you have to be very, very, very, very careful, again in those countries, especially if we are talking about asia , about africa, there is indeed a very strong anti-westernism, in latin america it is anti-americanism, so it is deep in them... they are right, and therefore, we also need it, we also need to take it into account, but i gave the example of qatar, yes, that is, saudi arabia refused to accept the communique, and qatar on the contrary, that is, we know that there are contradictions between these countries , including for leadership, so perhaps such things can also be used. but again, this is very, very careful and very tactful, but on the other hand, you see that

the president accused, the president of ukraine, accused china of trying to disrupt the peace summit, but today he said that ukraine does not consider china an enemy, i just wish he was a friend, so to speak such a formula, well, well, the formula, the formula is good, but we understand that china was actively working. worked with these countries so that they either did not send their representatives at all, or sent delegations of a lower rank, or, for example, like brazil itself, it was simply represented as an observer, and we understand how close the relationship between brazil and china is here, unfortunately, at lula and sidzin'. lula also talked a lot about

the future settlement of the multipolar world and so on and so forth, but this too of course, these are these conversations right now, they are playing along with china and they are playing along with russia as well, how much do you think these countries are now dependent on china, by the way, those countries that... are between china and russia, specifically, they just did not come, however, the countries of central asia, mongolia, they simply did not come, well, we can even there, i think that these countries are under the influence of russia and china, and to a large extent under the influence, and under the influence of russia, yes, i think , that even russian influence here would be enough for to prevent them from, uh, coming to this one. to this summit, it is interesting to look at southeast, east asia, yes, where are the countries

of southeast asia, they, well, cambodia, malaysia, did not go, thailand was there, thailand went, but refrained from joining the communique, by the way , singapore came, there was little hope for that, yes, that is, working with singapore, it... will play along with russia, this is obvious and the rhetoric used by china in the world, but - american policy can affect it, well again, we are we know that the americans also say that china does not supply weapons to russia, but dual -use goods do, and here we need to see whether there will be a backlash or whether the position will actually become tougher. and the usa and the west in relation to china.

china can maneuver, of course. and, but, well, now i don’t see any reason, again, in prolonging the conflict, he, in principle, he will win so far, so far he will win, the only thing is when russia starts rattling nuclear weapons, then china can say together with india , no no no. well, so far they are, i think will win if the americans and the west as a whole take more ee. a strict position on the relations of chinese banks with russia, on the export of dual-purpose goods, well then i think that certain restrictions are possible, but again, try to control all this, if he says, that is, i look, i know, i always want to comment , to be

more, to be more positive, but here it seems to me, when we talk about... and this topic of the global summit for the participation of the global south, about the participation of china, it seems to me that our comments, they should be very, very measured and careful, again, so that we do not create some, some inflated expectations, we do not need to shout that china is our enemy, maybe in this sense the president is right, but ... that , that in reality china has played along with russia recently, well, it is true , to what extent do you understand the meaning of the fact that india has so lowered its representation on this forum, well, by and large, india should just be a competitor of china, for it there is no need to refrain from presence on this forum, nevertheless

as you can see, she was represented at the level of deputy minister of foreign affairs. case? well look i think it's good to say what was presented at all i would say yes because the mod keeps talking about the politics of multipolarity they even have their own special term for it if i say it plurilateralism oh i said it and modi, modi constantly shows that he takes an independent position, he again takes advantage of the prices at which india can buy russian goods, and at the same time india needs western technology and innovations and weapons, why, because the main

competitor is who, the main enemy for india, here we can use the word enemy, it is china. but india, that's why india is afraid of it, it needs to be friends with the west, and be friends with russia, and in order not to strengthen, let's say, an alliance along the lines of china, pakistan, pakistan, by the way, did not come at all, bangladesh did not come, nepal did not come , that's why i think that if, let's say, it was a higher level of representation, well, for fashion it would be... it would probably be too radical, a radical change, a change of course. again, this position is very careful, cautious, pragmatic, well, cynical in certain things. again, what i am saying is that our diplomats cannot say about india's cynical position, but experts, they can. but i understand that

this is primarily a position of economic benefit, because when nata became cheaper in the gulf countries, india... calmly refused to purchase russian oil, without even thinking for a minute, absolutely fair, but i say that russia is a problem russia is not only, it is not only oil, yes, it is not only goods, this is this strategic quadrangle: moscow, islamabad, beijing and india, as well as delhi, new delhi, that's why every step here must be balanced somehow. by some other steps, by the way, the indians still remind us, but you sold tanks to pakistan, i mean, when was that? well, in the early 2000s, i say, so what, well, they sold, yes, you see, you sold tanks to pakistan then, well, it’s clear that these are also denials, but if stereotypes at

the level of these countries also exist, and relations between india and pakistan, they are extraordinary. extremely tense, so where do you think russia will act to create some new conflict after the ukrainian middle east, india, pakistan, the balkans, the caucasus, where is the most favorable zone for a new war to break out? you really want me to give such advice to putin, no, well, we can just look at the most risky places, he himself knows what to do without our advice. well, i think again, it's africa, it's the middle east, yeah, so it's countries where it's a lot to do. easy enough in latin america, well, it's just difficult to do, yes, because, well, in latin america, to organize some kind of conflict between

interstates, interstate conflict is difficult, in the middle east and africa, well, i think it's easier, but the balkans , you know, in the balkans i still... hope that, well, maybe, maybe, yes, but i still hope that the role of the west, including the european union, will be more like this here deterrent, and the balkans are closer to europe, and on the one hand, it may be more painful for europe, but on the other hand, it is will mean europe's attention to these countries and try to contain the situation, and we see

that, for example, in the same africa, yes, these opportunities are limited, yes, becoming limited, or, or in the middle east after what happened after the attack by hamas , after the breakdown of the agreement between israel and saudi... arabia, that is, there are fewer such opportunities, and you yourself know very well what the situation is there, you constantly talk about it, that the situation is so complicated that it is even hypothetical to imagine how to find way out of this situation is very difficult. well, by the way, the minister minister of foreign affairs of serbia was at the peace forum in switzerland, also such an interesting telling fact, and next to him was the president of macedonia and the president of slovenia. the prime minister of croatia, the president of montenegro and the president of kosovo, so neither the prime minister of albania nor

the president of albania, it seems to me, was, well, this also says a lot about which side of the balkans and a member of the presidium of bosnia and herzegovina , that's how i want to finish, by the way, armenia was there, but azerbaijan was not there, it was not, although azerbaijan is our strategic ally, the scientific director of the democratic initiative fund named after lko kucheriv was on the air with us on the on-air politclub program on the tv channel. attention, a profitable offer: order a smart light bulb at a special promotional price of only

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it's 2 p.m. in ukraine. news time on espresso tv channel. in the studio of iryna koval. just now to the most important events. so, let's start with the fact that the russian troops concentrated their main efforts on the pokrovsky direction, gathering the majority of their shock brigades there. and regiments, said the commander-in-chief of the armed forces oleksandr syrskyi. for him words, fierce fighting continues in the areas of the settlements of hlyboke, chasiv yar, staromayorske, robotine krynka and near the islands of the left bank of the dnieper. the occupiers are making efforts to expand hostilities in order to exhaust the defense forces and prevent their offensive. russia understands that the arrival of western weapons, in particular the f-16,