well, if there is such a zero ground floor in this construction, peacebuilding, and peacebuilding, uh, and after it, maybe we can expect some next steps, the ukrainian leadership announced the holding of the second summit, as you said, president zelenskyi, not in years, but in months, or in months, and that this is already the second summit should coincide with the end of the war, this is what we wanted to hear, of course, all ukrainians wanted. to hear that this is not a matter of years, but of months, and this is what our, our western partners wanted to hear, that it will also not be very long and exhausting, and their efforts will not be wasted, but the position of the aggressor country and the position of its senior partner china, as well as the position of other brics partners who were present in switzerland but did not sign. consciously

refrained from actually supporting ukraine with their signature in the final communique, they tell us that everything is so, everything is not very simple and not as rosy as possible, as the participants of the conference themselves are telling us about it now, in particular from the ukrainian side, i honestly fear , that this block, china, the russian federation and... the so-called leaders of the global south, and these are the brics countries after all, first of all, they will try to seize the initiative, but now this conference in switzerland is an attempt by ukraine to seize the peace initiative, well, in general, the plan of ukraine itself, about 10 points of the peace formula - it was an attempt to take over the peace initiative, it had to be diplomatically accompanied by the formula, it had to be accompanied by military actions and military... victories on the battlefield,

the formation of a so-called negotiating position, a strong negotiating position for ukraine, and it was imagined a year and a half ago or two years ago as the success of the ukrainian counter-offensive, and accordingly, here is the ukrainian peace formula, this is how it was conceived, but the counter-offensive did not go as well, and actually speaking, the diplomatic process was not as successful as it was conceived, well, we failed to conquer... the global half must be recognized, admit this, well, this bitter truth, they, well, they either do not care at all about what is happening in ukraine, many countries do not care, well, it is somewhere far away in europe, ukraine , russia, they do not and do not see any threat to themselves are concerned, and the countries of the same brics, such as china or brazil, well, maybe even india, they are not... trying

to play in this situation at all, they are not very interested in ukraine either, they are interested in the struggle for a place in the world with the united states, especially china, of course, china competes with the united states, and just as russia does not see ukraine as a subject, it is fighting when russia is fighting in ukraine, because it actually sees the united states as its potential partner in negotiating the division of the world , then e also has approximately the same approximate optics communist. china or imperial china, if you want, well, actually speaking, this does not give us any hope that the further track after the swiss, swiss conference, it will follow our, according to our plan, yes, well, the chinese will try to seize the initiative, maybe it will already happen at the beginning of july during the sco summit of the shanghai cooperation organization, which will be held in astana. in

kazakhstan, it appears there on july 3-4, by the way , a little bit on july 4-5, but on the eve of the washington nato summit, they can in principle speak there, actualize this the chinese-brazilian plan, as they call it, consists of six points, not 12, and in fact it is a russian plan, it is a plan in russian interests, yes, which would consolidate russian conquests, at least territorially. well, i froze and on this line, if it will not be in shoos, no, they will not have time, then somewhere at the end of august, the beginning, well, the beginning or the whole of september, the date has not been determined, the brics summit should take place already in russia, more precisely in tatarstan, the capital of tatarstan, kazan, and there may be an attempt to seize the initiative, well china will do this only when it understands that the majority of the countries of the global

south will be in its position, and the pressure that chinese diplomacy and the russian military have exerted on the countries of the global south will have some effect still gave, if, if we did not fight with it, we successfully countered it, we must give credit to ukrainian diplomacy and the efforts of switzerland itself and our other allies and partners, but this event showed that our closest partners and allies are the west, are there are countries and states and peoples, political leaders of europe, the european union and north america, the united states, canada, well, also japan, australia and all that we call the global system, regardless of geography, these are our reliable partners, these are the countries of the state and including taxpayers, who provide us with real, real help, thanks to which we can and still protest russian aggression and,

in my opinion, have not lost either the initiative or the chance for a final victory over and punishment of the russians. mr. volodymyr, you already they mentioned, among other things, that higher officials. people of ukraine and officials of other countries talked about the next peace summit, that is, which one will be there, someone said in 5 months, someone called closer to the elections or after the elections in the united states of america, but we have putin's position, he expressed it last week, he said whether he actually cut himself off from any such negotiations, such peace summits, even tentatively speaking... to invite russia, as switzerland wants to do, what would that bring, or will it lead to at least some minimal changes, your opinion, well, and one more question, if we are talking about some dates, after all, before the presidential elections in the usa or after

, a similar global peace summit may take place, where at least the states of the civilized world will gather , well, first of all, if... putin will be seated at the negotiating table for a peace conference, this will mean that this conference will have the same consequences and will take place in the same way as the munich conference of 1938 , which actually opened, opened the way for hitler to further aggression on the european continent. this trend is after the swiss conference, if the situation goes, well, the process is exactly on this path, so let's plant it. everyone at the negotiating table, it will be the munich conference. putin's words, spoken the day before, actually cut off any hopes and expectations for finding a compromise. russia will not make any compromises until it is defeated on the battlefield. this is their

strategic culture, they have always acted this way and will continue to act, they simply cannot imagine another way of acting, a mode of cooperation. they consider everything else a weakness. and that's why they don't show this weakness as much as they can do it, that's why our, as i said, the closest and most important partners of the western countries are still in some kind of internal illusion, the illusion that it is possible to reach some kind of compromise with putin. unfortunately, we cannot reach any compromise, at least officially and publicly, because the plane for... some concessions or points of contact in the russian-ukrainian existential conflict simply does not exist, western leaders do not pay attention to this, they think that they can still talk, but even in such a situation, conducting a dialogue is

better than not than conducting a war, well, from the point of view of a tactical delay , it is somehow justified, but strategically it is does not solve the problem, but mr. volodymyr, lately we have been witnessing really fundamental decisions, some of them would have been hard to believe just a few months ago, well, first of all, the decision to provide ukraine with 50 billion in profits from russian assets confiscated, which remain frozen this is a very important point, which can be recalled from the last one, it is actually a good thing for us to hit on russian sovereign territory, and azov. finally allowed to use american weapons, and this is also a revolution in the minds of the western world. recently, i see more and more signals that it seems that not only the russian federation and putin are ready to escalate with a known goal, but also

the collective event itself already understands that dialogues, soft power, coercion are soft. , it doesn't work anymore either, and we probably do we should be already. tougher in their decisions and rhetoric, isn't it? i completely, completely agree with you, these events that you listed are very positive, and they happened literally days, weeks ago... in the last, last weeks, let's say, and this is a very serious shift in the strategic thinking of our western partners , this is all very good, the only bad thing is that it is happening in the second or third year of the war, and time is being lost, and time is a resource, which is a resource that cannot be renewed, unfortunately, and this is the evolution of the strategic thinking of our western partners, it lags behind the russian... actions on the battlefield, unfortunately, i think that to consolidate this positive

course, this positive transformation, and the thinking of western thinkers, politicians, strategists, has everything - the realization that it is impossible to come to an agreement with putin, he must be defeated, and if you do not go to the new munich conference and put putin at the negotiating table, then you need to organize the process so that, first of all, military actions and support for military and security support of ukraine in such a way that the next conference will not be analogues of the munich conference, but the historical tehran, yalton and postdam conferences, where these will be international conferences dedicated to the topic of how to organize the space of northern eurasia after putin's defeat in this war. by the way, in the context of what... what khrystyna said, and in the context of what you say, mr. volodymyr, about raising these rates,

about the fact that the event, relatively speaking, is gradually maturing to what is needed as much as possible deter russia, well, here is one of the latest news, nato is negotiating the deployment of more nuclear weapons against the background of the growing threat from russia and china, in particular, consultations are actually ongoing regarding... the removal of missiles from storage and the transfer of these same missiles to a state of combat readiness missiles, nato secretary general jen stoltenberg said in an interview with the telegraph. let's see the quote now. what he said: i quote: "i'm not going to go into the operational details of how many nuclear warheads should be in the combat stockpile, how many in storage, but we must consult on these issues and precisely. this is what we are doing, that is, it reaffirms that not only is russia raising

the stakes during the great war that it started in 22, but the west is also raising the stakes, and in fact for russia, it is to some extent a kind of survival, and for the west, it is survival, that is, we see a situation where, as they say, who is who, and this can continue in reality. quite a long time, in your opinion, this is the position, who who, how long it can last, can this increase in rates be for another six months, or can it be, relatively speaking, extend for several years, for a year, two, three, five, well, one cannot help but welcome the words of general secretary stoltenberg, he is absolutely right about this, but he, too, in fact, this is not his initiative, it is... united the states are reviewing the capabilities of their nuclear potential and the military

is thinking about it and working on it, and this is all very right, very good, the only bad thing is that these decisions and actions have been delayed for two years, this is the reason why the world is now facing a very long confrontation, which is already resembles a cold war, and it can turn into a hot, third world war. unfortunately , this strategic reassessment and reassessment of strategic thinking, first of all, of the leaders of the united states of america, it has been going on for a very long time and is now entering the phase of the election campaign, and it is not yet known how this process will end and end, because the internal political struggle will restrain restrain these these. decisions are political, strategic, it will simply divert attention, as a resource political from this, so how long can it

last, can it last a very long time, i think it will not end quickly, with russia we consider ourselves to be in the phase of a war of attrition, but china is behind russia, and if we this war of attrition we can win only at the expense of western resources. money and technologies, then russia may also find itself in such a situation that it will turn to china for help, and this may then last a very long time, perhaps even indefinitely. i don't know how, well, in our life, such a new one is long, cold a war between two blocs that will form around the united states and china, the european union and ukraine next to it somewhere in the american camp, and the russian federation , respectively, in the chinese camp, and india may try to try to restore its influence through

the so-called non-alignment movement or the third world or as the global south is now saying, that taking some kind of neutral position can really last a long time, it is important for us to endure, to persevere in this war, because the active phase cannot last long anyway, cold the war can last a long time, the active phase of the war does not, and it is important for us to endure it, and it is important to use this time to join the western, first of all, european economic and security structures. nato is the task that is now a matter of life and death for us. with regard to the nuclear issue, it is generally accepted that at a certain moment, in a certain episode of the russian-ukrainian war, it was china that acted as the factor that calmed putin from thoughts about the possible use of nuclear weapons on the battlefield, or somehow

in a different way than china will build now. its dialogue directly or indirectly with the western world after what stolternberg remarked, and mr. volodymyr, here are some more questions, in particular from our viewers, the page of andrii smoliya is actually showing this question: oleksandr lytvynenko, chairman of the national security and defense council of ukraine in an interview yu the times, did not exclude that putin may resort to the use of nuclear weapons, but this is, let's say, at the moment when he will understand that everything. lost, if hitler is a bullet in the head, then u for putin, it will be the use of nuclear weapons, and we don't need svitber from russia, why do we need him? i thought about another option, it should be a nuclear bullet to putin's head, in a bunker, but the thing is, i don't think that was a very good statement by our current

secretary of the national security and defense council, even if he thinks so, then, in principle, public to the west. the audience could not have said this, it is what scares our western partners, they are afraid of nuclear escalation, accordingly there will be more to put pressure on us in order to force us to make concessions, even to the end of the conflict on russian terms, from a tactical point of view this is not very correct, as far as china and its participation in nuclear policy are concerned, they really counted on the fact that china could influence . .. russia and deter it from using nuclear weapons, at least tactical ones, why, because china positions itself as a responsible state on the world stage, and all their statements about nuclear weapons were previously so peaceful, why? because china has the third largest nuclear power in the world potential after the united states and

the russian federation of the current former soviet union, and this potential is many times over. smaller than the american or russian, so china does not see itself as a leader in the nuclear club and, accordingly, is against the fact that the leaders use their own arsenals, but the latest trend is such that the internal decision that china made was to increase the number of nuclear warheads for itself somewhere around a thousand by 2030, they need it, again, to reach the level of the united states... well, the level of both russia and russia is comparable, and even then we can speak from the position of equal strength with our three partners and competitors at the same time in the nuclear club, so it is not worth relying on the fact that china will deter russia from a nuclear strike for a long time, but for now in this can and

should be used in the coming years. mr. volodymyr, thank you for... your thoughts and your analysis volodymyr horbach, political analyst of the institute of euro-atlantic cooperation, expert on foreign and domestic policy, well, we will move on, but first of all, let's remind you that we have a survey going on, and we are interested in your opinion, your belief in how effective in practice the global peace summit that took place this weekend in switzerland will be, and of course you can vote... i emphasize again, that this survey is purely by telephone and if you agree that this summit can lead to real peace then please call 0800 211. 381 if you think not it is not to be hoped for then 0800 211 382. under

the broadcast on youtube on espresso, we are glad we will accept your comments, reflections, maybe even questions, which we will try to answer already in the second part of our program today, a new week, and now about the situation at the front, and we already have a new speaker. oleksiy hetman, reserve major of the national guard of ukraine, a veteran of the russian-ukrainian war, is already in direct contact with the espresso studio. mr. oleksiy, good evening, glory to ukraine. glory to the heroes, good evening. mr. oleksiy, i would like to talk with you first, probably about the missile a terror that has unfortunately intensified in the last few weeks. we saw regular night strikes on both starokostyantynov and vasylkov kyivska. oblast, poltava oblast was struck today, we see that the russians are probably hunting future

f-16 bases, we see that the russians continue to hit ukrainian energy facilities, infrastructure facilities, if we are talking about these massive shocks or point shocks, how much their intensification can be expected ... in the coming days or the coming weeks, in particular, in the context of the same energy sector, well, the russians have set a certain goal for themselves, to destroy our energy sector as much as possible so that we do not have much time left before winter in the winter, although it is only the beginning of summer to prepare, as they say the sledges must be prepared in the summer, well some energy-generating facilities, we , as experts say, are able to quickly repair or restore at all, there is sometimes a conversation about the need to build the latest, that is, they focused on energy-generating, not on

energy-distributing facilities, this more it is dangerous, it can lead to the fact that in winter, in addition to e and in autumn, in addition to power outages, there may also be heat outages, this is extremely dangerous, well, if in the cold there will be no warm water in the pipes for at least... a few hours, but it will be cold, it will freeze, the pipe will burst, we know how it sometimes happens and what it leads to, so they are trying to achieve their goal by destroying our energy supply, which is one of our airports, where we are, well, not necessarily in 16- and where do we even keep our planes, all these cities you mentioned, well it's not big, not at all secret that there are airfields, military airfields, and they are trying to destroy in this way, if not the landing strip, it can be repaired there quite quickly, namely the infrastructure of these er er airports,

communication systems, er, repair bases, bases , where you can hide them, well, they don't just stand there for a while, well, they often don't stand just for a little while, so their logic is quite clear, it's on the eve of our receipt. eh, well, we hope that it will still happen in the 16th, the ruin of the cities where they can be located, and in terms of energy, this is nothing new, they continue to gradually and methodically do this work, destroying these objects, so should we expect an increase, well here you can, here an increase is not necessary, if our energy infrastructure continues to be destroyed in this mode, then we will have very big problems starting from the month of october and... and here is a clarifying question: can the russians return to strikes on power distribution stations, actually, because this was their tactic in

2022-23 in that difficult winter, now we see, you already it was mentioned, a little different tactic, but many people ask and think about it, whether this very tactic can become a double -double. both the first and the second? no, well, the distribution stations will be destroyed after they have destroyed those that can be destroyed by generating, well, this is obvious, that is , what starts is beaten, what gives us heat is attacked, and well, we understand that they will destroy everything they won't be able to, but we will redistribute, we will turn off and on the electricity there, so i think we will do the same with heat. somehow to ensure er heat and electricity to the country, so the next step is that they will try to hit the distribution stations to prevent us from doing it, this is a difficult procedure for us to...

it is planned, because redistributing electricity and heat, well, it is extremely difficult, we have to look for ways there , according to which you can do it, well, everyone can think about it and understand how difficult it is to do, when everything does not work, you have to transfer from one to another, there are many things that need to be taken into account, if you hit somewhere else and on the distributor, then you can spoil it well, the logistics of, let's say, the distribution of the energy that... we are still generating or that we can get from, in the extreme case, from europe, well, it is clear that they have plans, whether they will succeed or not, well, it depends on how much we have these objects are protected, how protected they are depends on how much we have to protect, which is anti-aircraft missile systems and aircraft, because in all nato countries, in the united states, in israel,

including only in the country. at least 70% of air targets should destroy aircraft, yes written in their combat charters, remember the attack on israel, how many more than a hundred planes were raised, which shot down more than half of the air targets that flew at israel, exclusively with anti-aircraft missile systems, no matter how many we have, without air support, we will not be able to intercept everything that the russians attack us with, so we need planes not only as a means there... of big strikes there and also to listen to everything, everything they say, how we are going to use, we are going to use, first of all , as means against pitri nabrona, let’s see further, look, mr. oleksiy, we are supposedly already on the threshold of handing over to us, at least the appearance in ukraine of those long-awaited ones, we have been standing on the threshold since last year, something threshold is very long , something, a very long threshold or high and we cannot cross it neither we nor our partners can, i agree, but nevertheless...

we would like to understand the amount by which we can now, let's be optimistic, calculate how effectively it can carry out our air defense, and whether after , how do we get these planes, it would be appropriate to return to the question, close the sky over ukraine, which i mean, it is no secret for anyone that fogg rasmonsen from a few months ago, or last year, i can't remember exactly when, but theoretically thought about this. when nato actually closes the territory controlled by ukraine, so that russia cannot destroy our infrastructure, our generation, or so on, at least over the west of ukraine, do you remember these, do you remember these discussions, so about the west of ukraine, well, if we have these planes, it means that we even theoretically, we will not be able to return to this conversation with our partners, well, if they don't, if there are something, you somehow i didn't

understand the question, if... they will be us or how, if they are not, because we are standing on the threshold of the end , well, since the end of last year, to destroy enemy targets, which are illegal targets, illegal aerial targets on our territory, they have illegally violated our airspace, and we have the right to ask anyone in the world to protect our skies and destroy valuable laws, goals, we are not, we are not proposing to attack, as mr. biden says, the kremlin or moscow, we do not propose to attack... some objects, even military ones, on the territory of the russian federation, if for our partners it is some kind of red line there, or they are afraid of displeasing putin, i do not understand this logic, we ask to close our sky, they closed the sky over israel, and this is not a violation of any international rules, laws, it is our right to ask our partners to close our sky, to use even not only their anti-missile systems, not only f-16, but -35, any aircraft that are in our partners and with their pilots, this does not

mean that... go to war, they protect our, our our skies from targets that have illegally crossed our borders, from violators, they and we even emphasized that, emphasized the topic , that we won't have any claims if some destroyed missile falls into the links, an enemy missile, and something damages us some object and causes some material damage there, we won't have any claims, that is, you know, it's some kind of grimace democracy, as they said earlier in it is difficult for the soviet union to understand, well , israel was attacked, israel has a small territory, the kyiv region is more, they raised 100 planes, these were not israeli planes, they were american planes, they were french planes, they were british planes, and they were american, french , british pilots, and by doing so.