yes 83% no, after 15 minutes of bbc news, we will return to the studio, we will have mps of ukraine, stay with espresso. for the first time in 24 years, putin went to north korea to build ties. to agree on weapons, how the negotiations in pyongyang can affect the war in ukraine and can short-term agreements turn into long-term cooperation? let's try to figure it out in today's edition of the bbc: i'm olga polamaryuk. russia needs weapons, korea needs technology, money. this is how the experts briefly describe the purpose of today's visit vladimir putin to north korea. the fact that this trip will take place became clear after his... in september of last year

, he went to russia, you remember, an armored train, rich treats, a tour of the cosmodrome, and nine months later, putin gathered in pyongyang, likely to agree on the supply of weapons. this is indicated by putin's article for the korean press published on the eve of the visit. in it, the russian leader thanked for, quote: "firm support of the dprk in carrying out a special military operation." end quotes well, if the leaders' previous meeting was intended to...lay the groundwork for their relationship, this visit demonstrates the progress that has been made. about possible topics for conversation. the bbc's seoul correspondent shaima khalil. this visit is important, of course, not only because this is the first visit of vladimir putin to piengnano in the last more than 20 years, but also because it is a big gesture to further deepen this alliance between the two pariah states. i think that apart from the picture that both leaders want to present to their peoples and the rest of the world, and especially... the united states,

that they are not isolated, that they have friends they can rely on. each of them knows that the other has what they need. north korea needs everything, food, fuel, foreign currency and satellite technology, especially after it failed to launch its spy satellite into orbit last may. it will rely on russia and ask for more support in this matter. russia, on the other hand, is extraordinary. munitions are plentiful, she needs to replenish the supplies that are being used up on the battlefield in ukraine, and despite objections, that we heard from plinian and moscow regarding the transfer of munitions, we have confirmation from the united states, which again accused both countries of this, but we also heard it earlier from ukraine, that russia used north korean ballistic missiles and munitions in ukraine. there are some limits to what these two can offer each other, especially in terms of... they don't want

to anger china, which they both rely on, but i think it's also a win-win situation for them, both symbolically, yes and from the point of view of further cooperation putin's visit to bhinyana is also closely watched in the west. john kirby, coordinator for strategic communication of the us national security council, believes that ukraine will be the first to suffer from the strengthening of cooperation between moscow and pyongyang. the deepening of relations between these two countries is not only because of the consequences it will have for the ukrainian people, because we know that north korean missiles are still targeting ukrainian facilities, but also because of the fact that relations of the type that will affect the security situation on the korean peninsula. we don't see any signs of that at the moment, but we'll be keeping a close eye on it. so what is known about it? visit,

i will say a little at once that it will last two days, and the main topic of conversation will probably be weapons, or rather, according to experts, the number of weapons that the dprk can provide to russia, and this is what orientalist andriy lankov thinks about it. russia has two main big allies: china and india, it is happy to sell them its oil and some other natural resources, and purely from an economic point of view, north korea has... for russia almost zero value, but north korea has something that russia badly needs, ammunition, primarily north korean large-caliber artillery shells, which are very much needed in ukraine on the front line, and this is the main reason, not economy, because basically the russian economy is in very good shape, the north korean economy is afloat thanks to chinese aid, but north korea has missiles that it wants to sell to russia, and russia in turn wants to buy them. and

pay good money for it, that's the main thing economic need, there are other reasons for this relationship, political and other, but this is probably the most important factor in the recent, i would say, revived one. these two countries. of course, there will be a lot of official rhetoric about the solidarity of the global south and about the struggle against american hegemony. this is to be expected, and there are already signs that such rhetoric is coming. speaking of more serious topics, the main question to which we are unlikely to know the exact answer for probably many more years is how much military technology russia will transfer north korea. personally, i am skeptical, or, if you like, optimistic. i don't expect russia to provide north korea. a large amount of military technology, because such a transfer would not bring much benefit to russia, but would instead create potential problems for the future. of course, the north koreans want to have them, but, but, so to a large extent we are talking about commercial transactions. north korea provides some munitions that

have been paid for, and there are also some other economic cooperation projects, but they are mostly are relatively limited in scope and value. and the fact that north korea already. supplies russia with weapons - this is not news, for example, last fall, south korean intelligence reported on the shipment of a million shells to russia from the dprk. for comparison, the european union promised to deliver the same amount to ukraine, but was unable to do so. and already last week , the ministry of defense of south korea announced that pyongyang sent russia containers with 5 million artillery ammunition, as well as dozens of ballistic missiles. earlier about... exactly the americans also talked about ballistic missiles, although neither moscow nor pyongyang would confirm this. but it is precisely kim chin-in who will gain from this visit, and here is the expert's opinion. kim has problems with satellite technology, because although he provides ballistic

missiles and develops sophisticated weapons, the north koreans have failed to launch satellites. they also want to try to build ballistic missiles behind nuclear warheads to launch. from submarines and they want russia's advice on this, but they also want food, they want currency, the country, this zombie economy, is starving, so north korea needs food, technology, and the symbolism of their meeting, epitomized by the expression lonely bromance, that these two can help each other, restore faith in each other and in their international positions, is should be a win-win situation , should the west be concerned, yes, as it will cause an escalation. actions and of course the reason north korea is under sanctions is because they are developing nuclear weapons that can reach america, so americans are worried if this will intensify the war on the korean peninsula, do we need another war on top of the war in europe and the middle east, so we expect a lavish

ceremony, because both these leaders, dictators with a taste for military spectacle, there will be a lot of symbolism and practical benefit for both leaders who isolated from the world, president kim. does not like to fly, he travels only to neighboring countries, china and russia, in his armored train. the two will meet a year after their last meeting, and they want to go strong. it is possible to worry, there is no immediate threat to the event, it is immediate there is a threat to ukraine. yes, and about the threats to ukraine, what do the experts say? if putin manages to agree with kemchin-in on additional weapons, what will they be? will be, whether it will be able to change the course of the war and how china reacts to these negotiations, and this is exactly what my colleagues asked the expert of the national institute of strategic studies, ivan us. why is putin going to pyongyang, what is his main

goal? look, putin's goal, i would single out several at once. the first is that he needs to demonstrate that he is recognized, because period. full-scale war demonstrated that putin, he tries not to leave the russian federation, the few times he traveled, that is, it was already said that there is a certain fear of putin to leave russia, because he is afraid that something might happen, that is, he still wants to demonstrate that no, he is not afraid of anything, this is such an image component, which concerns a more practical component, here it is more interesting, because... and the russian federation, it has significantly depleted its reserves for more than two years of war. and this exhaustion leads to what russia is now necessary shells and other ammunition in other countries. and north korea is one of

the few countries in the world where putin can get the projectiles he needs, because at one time north korea received these projectiles from of the soviet union, and then from russia, that is, they are suitable for russian self-propelled artillery and will be, as it seems to putin and his entourage, they will be. uh, a nice addition to the arsenal he has, and in order to get all those uh military components, that is, shells, first of all, he is ready to it is important to violate the un security council decision, which russia voted for. and this is where a situation arises when russia itself violates what it voted for, but putin does not care, he needs, after all, that north korea first gave shells, other ammunition, and such another scenario which

putin will probably talk about is the possibility of getting north korean military, but here everything may not be so simple, because now in north korea, not that now, we constantly have a conflict with south korea, it's just that in june 2024 again. aggravation already during this month there were incidents on the borders twice and there are certain expectations regarding the possibility of continuing the provocation, i.e. north korea needs resources for this, and sending both shells and people to russia now, well, it would be very dangerous, and if there are a lot of shells you can send with people, the situation is worse, because in my opinion, first of all, this is a demonstration... that the russian, russian warehouses are exhausted,

they no longer have the necessary resources, and now north korea may be almost the only a country that can save russia, and what are the biggest threats to ukraine from this meeting, what to expect, a weapon is a weapon, there are certain fears, just like ukraine, but let's, if we talk about fears, let's also mention the other side. i mean south korea, because russia will not, or rather north korea will not simply supply russia with shells, it will ask for something in return, one could say money, but i do not rule out that it will ask for certain types of weapons, which it does not have in north korea, and this is already a risk for neighbors, primarily for south korea, for japan, and you know, suddenly... it might be a third country, this is actually china, because if you read the us press now, it

is written there that china is not very happy with the rapprochement of russia and the north korea, because he also lists the risks that will happen if north korea at some point goes to a conflict with china, because after all , they don't like being constantly dependent on china, yes. ivan us, an expert at the national institute for strategic studies, and here is a detailed analysis of what putin wants to achieve in pyongyang, read in the article on our website why putin went to north korea and how it threatens ukraine. the author, a correspondent of the korean service of the bbc, juna moon, writes that moscow and pyongyang were brought closer by russia's war with ukraine. now, the article says, the russians need weapons, kimchin's regime, foreign currency. the difference between the current putin's previous visit to the dprk 24 years ago, in the fact that north korea now has nuclear weapons, which is

an additional factor of security risk, that's how, the journalist quotes professor seulsky university so, at this moment , putin's visit to north korea continues, two days of meetings and negotiations, while all that is known about this trip, experts assume that the two leaders will talk about weapons and money. putin will ask for ... help with ammunition for waging war in ukraine, kimchinin will obviously talk about technology, both countries are currently under heavy sanctions, as the previous expert said, dependent on china. well, that's all we have time to tell today. subscribe to our pages in social networks, just in case miss the most important news. mye is on facebook, instagram, tiktok, youtube, you can watch our episode if you missed it on the air. and we will be on the air tomorrow at 25. all is well,

congratulations, friends, live on the tv channel. the second part of the verdict program, my name is serhii rudenko, and today we will talk about the following: in nato only after the end of the war. stoltenberg rules out membership in the alliance of the country with the frozen conflict. are ukraine's partners in danger of a direct conflict with russia? potential moscow agency in the ukrainian authorities. 30 people's deputies from the former opzh remain in leadership positions in the verkhovna rada. does

ukraine need it? new lustration. electronic mobilization. by. mobile application reserve plus 15 million ukrainians have already updated their data, will the new mobilization legislation help to establish relations between the tcc and society, we will talk about this and other things in the next 45 minutes with our guests, today they will be people's deputies of ukraine, but before that , how to start our big conversation, i suggest to our viewers and viewers to take part in our poll, today we ask you if raising taxes during wartime is justified, yes, no, it's pretty simple on youtube, or yes or no, if you have an opinion that goes beyond those two unequivocal answers, please write in the comments below this video, and in addition, if you are watching us on tv, pick up your smartphone or phone and vote if you think that

raising taxes during the war is justified (0800-211- 380). 0800 211 382, ​​all calls to these numbers are free, vote at the end of the program, we will tally up the results of this vote. i would like to introduce the guests of today's studio, this is viktoria syumar, people's deputy of ukraine, member of the verkhovna rada committee on anti-corruption policy. mrs. victoria, i congratulate you, thank you for being with us today. oleksiy kucherenko, people's deputy of ukraine, first deputy chairman of the parliamentary committee on issues. of energy and housing and utilities, mr. oleksiy, good evening and thank you for being with us today, congratulations, good evening, and we look forward to the inclusion of halyna yanchenko, people's deputy of ukraine from the servant of the people, deputy head of the parliamentary committee on anti-corruption issues, this will become obvious a little later. so, ms. victoria and mr. oleksiy, how many times do we ask our tv viewers

whether tax increases during the war are justified, let's do it in blitz format. i will also ask you what you think about this, ms. victoria, you know, if we were alone, probably with the enemy, then we would probably have to talk about mobilization, but when we see such serious support partners, and when we see enough little reporting on where the funds are going, how effectively the reconstruction process is taking place during the war, well, there is one more point that is quite interesting. you know that in the conditions of martial law , the withdrawal of capital is actually prohibited, and all this is recorded by the government as additional investments, and this is in fact additional funds during the war, in such a case, probably, the increase in taxes and excises, when people are extremely seriously dependent on them, it is sufficiently doubtful

and a debatable decision, here i am now sitting without light with a battery-powered, literally here... lamp, it pulls out, of course, lti, thank god , the ether, but besides that , the generator will have to be turned on there, and in the event of an increase in excise taxes on fuel, we understand that, well, it will be quite expensive, you know, and if millions of ukrainians are hostages of dark homes and cold winter, and also with such prices for electricity and fuel, can everyone pull it off, will it not lead to a further outflow of people, or not it will lead to... closure business has a lot of questions and it seems to me that the answers are not so unambiguous. thank you, ms. victoria, mr. oleksiy, do you think it is justified to raise taxes during the war? blitz, yes, we did, we agreed on a blitz, well, a little, a little more than a blitz, mrs. victoria came out, let’s go, blitz yes blitz, stadium yes stadium, look, you can

consider any model, because really war, war has its own price, and... including financial, and this is life, and this is health, this is nerves, this is finances, taxes, and probably, indeed, this is the price of war, but not in such a situation, not with such a government, and not with such a structure of control over public money that exists today, or rather, there is no control, in principle, here i agree with my colleague syumar, i myself much, well, i don't want her there, i have my own. .. additional information, i am simply confused by the audacity with which the authorities simply neglect elementary things, not allowing even elementary control over uh... budgetary expenses there, starting with hiring, with fortification, with drones and so on, you understand , are not allowed to audit energy companies, every company

the energy company completely closed its information, huge amounts of money for salaries are spent left and right, and all this is closed, and then we see all this in the payments, you understand, and therefore under such conditions, of course, of dishonest, non -parity conversation with society, of course these taxes add up, they, well, they are factors of destabilization, especially in conditions when business constantly withstands pressure from law enforcement officers, a whole army of law enforcement officers from various structures, who today are deprived of their traditional income, you understand, for himself, for his wives, mistresses, yes, we will, i don't know, we will talk about the prosecutor general, the deputy, there and tomorrow he will be in the council, you understand, there there. you know this scandalous story about this horse konchazask, and this all certainly causes opposition and probably correct and opposition and rejection of this so

-called tax policy on the part of the authorities, here i support mrs. syuman, thank you mr. oleksiy, we are joined by galina yanchenko, people's deputy of ukraine, deputy of the parliamentary of the committee on anti-corruption policy, mrs. galina, i am you hello, thank you for being with us today, i wish you good health, well, since we're uh... asking our viewers if they think wartime tax increases are justified, i'm going to ask you that too, because and viktoria syumar and oleksiy kucherenko have already answered, let's do it in blitz format, that is , without stretching this topic, just so that our viewers also understand what you think about it, in order to form your opinion for the answer. i have always been critical of raising taxes, but now, given the colossal spending. from the state budget for our security and defense, on the one hand, and on the other hand, given that, unfortunately, we cannot use either western aid or western loans to pay,

for example, the salaries of our defenders or to buy ammunition, it is certain that the forced step, thank you, mrs. galina, and ladies and gentlemen, let's start our big conversation, because of course, money, control over money, control over expenses, control, effective control over the effective use of money. there was information that the council of the european union created a commission on fight against corruption and embezzlement of western aid to ukraine, according to the resolution, it will function until june 30, 2028 and will be based in brussels, while an auxiliary body will be located in kyiv. ms. victoria, does this mean that european countries have reason to be sad. that western aid in ukraine is used as intended, and that there are any arguments for

talking about corruption or embezzlement of this western aid? i think you have seen the sociological polls and their results, and that there is corruption in ukraine exists, more than 70% of ukrainians there believe, this is an extremely large number, and... unfortunately , they believe that during the war it increased, well, i can say for sure that transparency did not increase, and even working in the anti-corruption committee, well, it is very difficult , i will tell you frankly, get a report, well, from the same ministry of energy, for example, on the protection of energy facilities, because there were declarations that billions of hryvnias were simply spent there, how effective the use of funds was, until now no one has reported , the committee also invited mr kubrakov and mr. nayem, well, it so happened that... the resignations happened earlier and who is now responsible for this area is not known at all, we also wanted to understand what was happening with the fortification system, because there were a

lot of investigations by public organizations, well let's put it this way, you know the ones with the demonstration of just documents, when funds were transferred to some newly created companies, the work was not completed, and these were directly the facts presented, i directed my parliamentary request to... to the head of nabu, mr. kryvonos, regarding whether in general, it was instituted based on these facts, when society provided these facts and obviously society is guided by them, when it believes that there is corruption in the country, yes, more than 70% of the people, i asked him whether you initiated any criminal proceedings in relation to the facts provided, published in various media of mass information, the answer was no, a check is being carried out, it was a month after publication, regarding such a high-profile topic on which people's lives directly depend. therefore , it is obvious that there are problems, they are very significant, our european partners see them, but they do not they talk about it directly in their voice, because today they really support

ukraine and do not want it to be rushed... russia has become such, you know, skepticism, strengthening in the world, and that is why all these conversations are, well, let's say, more like this private key, but the creation of such institutions as, in particular, these three auditors, who will monitor the spending of funds, they speak for themselves, that obviously there should be transparency here, and since we are talking about 50 billion euros, this is a huge amount of money, i think that the work of such... an institute as this one the supervisory board, it will only strengthen over time, now ukraine is only receiving the first money from this large package, but i think that here all ukrainian ministries and officials need to start working transparently, because otherwise we will lose , god forbid, the trust of our partners, and this can turn into a disaster for the country. thank you, ms. victoria, mr. oleksiy, in

2016, when a package of laws on the creation of anti-corruption infrastructure was adopted in ukraine, it was said that these laws are the best, almost in the world, well, in europe so exactly, why do you think, despite everything, despite everything, in ukraine, ukraine has questions about corruption, the existence of corruption, why do we have to prove to our european partners, western partners, that we effectively... use these funds, why this the entire infrastructure is not working, to be a gentleman in front of mrs. halyna, for the future i will allow myself to give advice, when we speak in the council, and there is such a timer, there is a bell, yes, and everyone is on equal terms, well, for the future, i will simply so that everyone , so that everyone has time to say everything, this is once or twice, answering your question, and when suddenly ukraine became a country in which, in which laws are enforced, well, excuse me, i

live here and... my whole life has passed here and the last 33 years have been there, well, i don’t remember anything about such a period, i’ll tell you honestly, when ukraine, the best laws in the world were implemented in ukraine, starting with our best constitution in the world. and now the last thing, a week ago i was at a closed meeting of the chamber of accounts to verify the expenditures of the armed forces of ukraine on armaments, i was shocked, thank god, there were two deputies from yes and there was her... mrs. radina from and the servants of the people, ask them, shocked simply by the fact that they are simply talking about truncated money, about truncated time, in the near future this report will get to the verkhovna rada, it will be secret, secret, but you can get acquainted with it, i know for sure that last week i had there would be a report on hiring under the recovery program, that i already know the numbers there, i guarantee you that you will be shocked, and colleagues, and society, you will be shocked, how much money is generally

uncontrolled'. were spent, if we are allowed to create tsk for real shelters, there are no mines energy, and kubrakov spent this money and ukrenergo, but, but things do not change, you will also be shocked at how ineffectively tens of billions of hryvnias were spent, so definitely the right of creditors and donors to control their money, i do not even dispute, not even i dispute, i am doing it right, please tell me, but what we are talking about is that this whole story with mustafa... nayom and his two deputies, that there were grounds for the prime minister to have claims against them, right ? i, look, i was a government official, when you want to fire, do an audit, audit, listen to the report, and you have every reason to fire professionally and calmly and give a political assessment. shmygal fired the tenant in such a way that

shmygal is entirely responsible for this. who? i took him to work, i didn't take him there, i'm sorry, to clean up, as they say, the whole government team was sneaking around, and the powerful one is responsible for hiring and for kubrakov, there is no one to point the finger at. thank you, mrs. galina, how are you, do you understand the words of mr. oleksiy, monopower is monoresponsibility, and in principle, if there is questions about effective use, including western funds, then obviously this is a question for your team. colleagues, i believe that... in fact, in any state , verification tools should work, do anti-corruption bodies work effectively enough in ukraine? well, to be honest, i believe that not everyone, i personally have, for example, very big complaints against bebu - it is the bureau of economic security and the army, it is an agency for search and asset management. today, despite the fact that one and the other body, they are...