here for a meeting, so gradually, well, once they uttered the word victory for ukraine, it was very difficult, they were silent for two years, somehow they couldn’t utter it, and now they said that the goal of our joint actions is the victory of ukraine, before that they did everything to help the russian federation not to lose and to ukraine, so that it does not win, and now somehow they are starting, maybe, but we are in words, this is such a thing, they also taught us, we... taught us to say victory is ukrainian, they could not to decide, not even that, but now me i think we will teach them to change the basic strategy related to the provision of aid, i.e. it should be modern, well, the weapon that we are such a warrior, but with a modern component, as they try to supply it to taiwan, israel, i.e. we in this team had to wait for six months, but israel was helped even during the break, and it was given in the 35th. not the f-16

and bombs of two types, here, but to taiwan, their secretary mcfaul of the security congress says that we will not help like the old weapons of ukraine, but we will modern ones, that's your relationship to ukraine, that's why you have to look at it, approach it pragmatically and increase your efforts regarding the fact that they are allowed to shoot, let them shoot everything in the 16th, they are six months, so. no one is holding them anymore, the problems were, are and will remain, when 10 planes, and 40 and 100, come, these are them, because it is a war, but it should have started six months ago, the first thing is to remove permits, remove prohibitions gripens, which are better for our conditions, to the swedes, not to ban them, otherwise the programs interfere with them, why f16 interferes, which is still not there, what is there?

it prevents him, it prevents them from training our pilots, they train thousands, and for us, for 12 pilots, the problem is that they try to do this themselves and again, they forbid denmark and romania, they also find artificial denmark, which switches to training in 35, so they cannot train , romania, that someone does not know what to invent to slow down these processes by teaching. it’s like petrima, they have tens of them, and they can’t decide where to take the second patriot, they tried to take their anti-aircraft missile system of the us army against the poles, territorial, which is in the hands of the poles, the american president made the decision, and president duda corrected him, saying: "no, this will not happen." and it didn't happen. here is the relationship between our allies, the strategic relationship with ukraine in this regard. on the night of june 18, mr. general,

there were explosions in crimea, the russian media reported that air defense was operating, in particular in the kerch region, the crimean bridge was blocked, aviation was lifted from the belbek airfield, the russians almost do not use the crimean bridge for military logistics , about this says the spokesman of the navy, dmytro pletenchuk, because that is why its destruction, by implication, the crimean bridge, would not have the same effect now, less than a quarter. the total load is borne by this bridge, the rest goes along the ferry crossing, which was recently attacked, so this bridge no longer has such tactical and strategic importance after the damage it received as a result of a joint operation by the sbu and the navy with a drone attack. at the same time , frederik mertens, an analyst at the haad center for strategic studies, gave an interview to the business publication the insider suggested that regular strikes on the russian. in crimea, ukraine is preparing the ground

for future airstrikes after the arrival of f-16 fighter jets, to quote mr. mertens: crimea is vulnerable, the russians have relatively limited room for maneuver on the peninsula, and putin has a lot to lose, both politically and militarily, therefore , if a limited number of fighters can have a real impact, then it is here and over the black sea, which becomes fully accessible after the air defense problem in crimea is solved. mr. general, what do you predict? the deployment of hostilities in crimea, on the crimean peninsula, especially f-16 strikes on military infrastructure, it is sufficiently ravaged and large in crimea, how quickly can this happen and what result will we achieve? well, first of all, this is happening, with regard to the kerch bridge, it must be said that it is being operated at... potential only for

a quarter, but this does not mean that it is impractical to at least damage it in order to cut this logistical artery altogether, this is from the point of view . military and logistical violations, from the point of view one must have a political, i.e., what is this sacred meaning for putin, he must be prepared, because you see what statements he still makes, this special person must be shot down from him, and therefore remember that it is important for all our ukrainian people to stop this illegally built bridge, but the question in that, by smaller means that we now have to use, including. and in order to form, close the sky over the temporarily occupied space, over the crimean peninsula, and this is happening, as we can see, location stations are fighting, anti-aircraft missiles are fighting complexes, and anti-aircraft complexes of the old park,

let's say, well, c300 for sure, c400 is a modernization, if, they are not able to cope, for example, with work on ballistic attacks, that's how it is... in order to somehow react and shoot down, in addition, these complexes do not see, we strike with unmanned aerial vehicles, there is a small surface for reflecting energy, that is, it is hardly visible, and therefore they get there with atakams and plus our drones, the result is achieved, we further... increase the potential of anti-aircraft of anti-missile defense in crimea, so exactly, well, not only in crimea, according to some objects on the continental part of the russian federation, but the topic of crimea is a separate strategic one, we mean the planned closure of the sky and

in general the transformation of this, as they say, unsinkable aircraft carrier, russians, do they have a fortress, so it is, if the aircraft carrier is a fortress. should be ours, and we need to work on this already this year, so last year we had significant shifts and achievements at the strategic level at sea, and now this year is the year of strategic shifts, primarily over the crimean peninsula, but it is definitely necessary to normalize at the front. thank you, mr. general, we have to finish the program, it was ihor romanenko, lieutenant general. rates friends, let's look at the interim results of the polls that we are conducting today, whether it is justified to raise taxes during the war, please show, 17% yes, 83% no. attention, mega sale,

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give their assessment and forecast of the development of events. if you want to understand how our today will affect our tomorrow, watch the saturday politics club, every saturday on espresso. events, events that from'. just now and affect our lives, of course, the news feed reports on them, but it is not enough to know what is happening, you need to understand, antin borkovskyi and invited experts soberly assess the events, analyze them, modeling our future, every saturday at 1:10 p.m. with a repeat at 10:00 p.m., studio event with anton borkovsky on espresso. greetings, friends, live on the espresso tv channel, the second

part of the verdict program, my name is serhii rudenko, and today we will talk about the following. in nato only after the end of the war. stoltenberg rules out membership in the alliance of the country with the frozen conflict. is it threatening? ukraine's partners have a direct conflict with russia? a potential moscow agent in the ukrainian government. 30 people's deputies from the former opzh remain in leadership positions in the verkhovna rada. does ukraine need a new lustration? electronic mobilization. 15 million ukrainians have already updated their data through the reserve plus mobile application. will the new mobilization legislation help to establish relations between the central committee and society.

we will talk about this and other things with our guests in the next 45 minutes. today it will be people's deputies of ukraine. however, before starting our big conversation, i suggest to our tv viewers and viewers to take part in our survey. today we're asking you if raising taxes during wartime is justified, yes, no, it's pretty simple on youtube, either yes or no if you have an opinion that goes beyond that. these two unequivocal answers, please write in the comments below this video, and in addition, if you are watching us on tv, pick up your smartphone or phone and vote if you think that raising taxes during the war is justified 0.800 211 381, no 0800 211 382, ​​all calls to these numbers are free, vote, at the end of the program we will sum up the results of this vote, i want to introduce... today's guests of our studio are victoria syumar, people's deputy of ukraine, member of the verkhovna rada committee on

anti-corruption policy. ms. victoria, i congratulate you, thank you for being with us today. oleksiy kucherenko, people's deputy of ukraine, first deputy chairman of the parliamentary committee on energy and housing and communal services, mr. oleksiy, good evening and thank you for being with us today. greetings, good evening. and we are still waiting for the inclusion of halyna yanchenko, people's deputy of ukraine from the servant of the people, representative. these heads of the parliamentary committee on anti-corruption issues, it will become obvious a little later, so ms. victoria and mr. oleksiy, how many times do we ask our tv viewers whether tax increases during the war are justified, let's use the blitz format, i will also ask you what you what do you think about this, ma'am victoria, you know, if we were alone, probably with the enemy, well, for sure. she would have to talk about mobilization, but when we see such serious support from partners and

when we see quite little reporting, where the funds go, how effectively the reconstruction process actually takes place during the war, well, there is one more point that is quite interesting, you know , that in the conditions of martial law, the withdrawal of capital is actually prohibited, and all this is recorded by the government as additional investments, and this is, in fact, yes... additional funds during the war, in this case, probably, the increase of taxes and excises, when people, well, extremely seriously depend on them, is sufficiently dubious and controversial. that solution, here i am now sitting without light, with a battery-powered, literally here lamp, pulling out the truth of the lti, thank god the ether, but besides that , the generator will have to be turned on there, and in the event of an increase in excise taxes on fuel, we understand that, well, that will be enough, you know , overhead, and if millions of ukrainians are hostages of dark

homes and cold winter and also with such electricity and fuel prices. can everyone pull it off, won't it cause more people to leave, or will it cause businesses to go out of business? there are a lot of questions, and it seems to me that the answers are not so clear-cut. thank you, ms. victoria, mr. oleksiy, do you think it is justified to raise taxes during wartime? blitz, yes, we did, we agreed blitz, well, a little, a little more than blitz, mrs. victoria got out, well, let's go, yes, blitz yes blitz, stadium, yes stadium, look, you can consider any-. such a model, because really war, war has its price, including a financial one, and it is life, and it is health, it is nerves, it is finances, taxes, probably, indeed, this is the price of war, but not in such a situation, not with such power as not with the construction of control over

public money that exists today, or rather, there is no control, in principle here i... agree with my colleague syumar, i myself much, well, i don’t want it there, i have my own additional information, it just confuses me and the audacity with which the authorities simply neglect elementary things, not allowing even elementary control over budgetary expenses there, starting with hiring, fortification, drones and so on, you see, energy companies are not allowed to be audited, every company... the energy company has completely closed its information, huge amounts of money are being spent on salaries, left and right, and all this closed, and all this later we see in the payments, you understand, and therefore under such conditions, of course, unfair, unequal conversation, society, of course, these taxes are annoying, they, well, they are

destabilizing factors, especially in conditions when business constantly withstands pressure from side law enforcement officers, a whole army of law enforcement officers from various structures, who today are deprived of their traditional incomes, you understand, for themselves, for their wives, mistresses, yes, we will, i don’t know, there, we will talk about the deputy prosecutor general, there and tomorrow he is in you will be glad, you understand, there you know this scandalous story there, the horse, this end of the world, and all this definitely causes opposition and probably correct opposition to the rejection of this tax policy. so -called by the authorities, here i support mrs. sumar. thank you, mr. oleksiy, to us halyna yanchenko, people's deputy of ukraine, deputy of the parliamentary committee on anti-corruption policy, joins. mrs. galina, i congratulate you, thank you for being with us today. i wish you health. well, since we 're asking our viewers if they think

wartime tax increases are justified. i will also ask you about this, since both victoria syumar and oleksii. kucherenka has already answered, let's do it in a blitz format, that is, without stretching this topic, just so that our viewers also understand what you think you about it to form your opinion for the answer? i have always been critical against raising taxes, but now given the colossal expenditures from the state budget on our security and defense, on the one hand, and on the other hand, given that, unfortunately, we cannot use either western aid or western loans to to pay. for example, the salaries of our defenders, or buying ammunition, this is probably a forced step. thank you, mrs. galina, and, ladies and gentlemen, let's start our big conversation, because of course, money, control over money, control over expenses, control, effective control over the effective use of money, information has appeared

that the council of the european union has created a commission to combat corruption and embezzlement . aid to ukraine, according to the resolution, it will function until june 30 , 2028 and will be based in brussels, while an auxiliary body will be located in kyiv. ms. victoria, does this mean that european countries, well, have reason to doubt that western aid in ukraine is being used as intended, and that there are any arguments for talking about... corruption or about the embezzlement of this western aid? i think you have seen sociological polls and their results and that corruption exists in ukraine, they believe there... more than 70% of ukrainians, this is an extremely high number, and people, unfortunately, believe that it increased during the war, well, i can say for sure that the lack of transparency has increased, and even

working in the anti-corruption committee, well, it is very difficult, frankly, to get a report, well, from the same ministry of energy, for example, on the protection of energy facilities, because there were declarations that billions of hryvnias were simply spent there, how effective the use of funds was, no one has said so far. the first committee invited mr. kubrakov and mr. nayem, but it so happened that the resignations happened earlier, and who is now responsible for this area is not known at all, we also wanted to understand what was happening with the fortification system, because there were a lot of investigations there public organizations, well, let's say, you know these from the demonstration of documents, when funds were transferred to some newly created companies the works were not completed and these were directly presented facts, i directed my parliamentary question to the head of nabu, mr. kryvonos, regarding whether there was any violation based on these facts when

the society provided these facts and it is obvious that the society is guided by them when it believes that there is corruption in the country, yes more than 70% of the people, i asked him whether you initiated any criminal proceedings in relation to the given facts published in various mass media, the answer was no, it is being checked, it was che... a month after publications on such a high-profile topic, on which people's lives directly depend, so it is obvious that there are problems, they are very significant, our european partners see them, they do not speak about it directly, because today they really support ukraine and do not want this was used by russia to, well, you know, increase skepticism in the world, and that is why all these conversations take place, let's say, more in such a private way. but the creation of such institutions as, in particular, these three auditors, who will monitor the expenditure of funds, they speak for themselves that obviously there should be transparency here, and since we are talking about

50 billion euros, this is a huge amount of money, i think that the work of such an institution as this supervisory board will only increase over time, now ukraine is only receiving the first money from this big package, but i think that everyone here... all ukrainian ministries, officials, need to start working transparently, because otherwise we will lose, god forbid, the trust of our partners, and it can turn into a disaster for the country. thank you, ms. victoria, mr. oleksiy, v in 2016, when a package of laws on the creation of anti-corruption infrastructure was adopted in ukraine, it was said that these laws are the best, almost in the world, well, yes, in europe. exactly why do you think, despite everything, despite everything, in ukraine, ukraine has questions about corruption, the existence of corruption, why do we

have to prove to our european partners, western partners, that we are using these funds effectively, why all this infrastructure is not working , to be a gentleman in front of mrs. holina, for the future i will allow myself to give advice, when we speak in the council, and there there is such a timer, there is a bell, right? and everyone is on equal terms, well, for the future, i just want everyone to have everything, so that everyone has time to say everything, it’s one or two times, answering your question, and when suddenly ukraine became a country in which, in which the laws are enforced, well, excuse me, i live here and my whole life has passed here and the last 33 years there, well, i don't remember anything from such a period, i will tell you honestly, when ukraine, in ukraine, the best laws in the world were implemented, starting with ours. the best constitution in the world. and now the last thing: i was on a week ago closed session of the accounting chamber on checking the expenditures of the armed forces of ukraine on

armaments. i was shocked, thank god, there were two deputies from yes and there was mrs. radina from servants of the people. ask them, shocked simply by the fact that they are talking about truncated money, about truncated time, in the near future this report will get to the verkhovna rada, it will be secret. i know for a fact that last week there should have been a recovery program hiring report, i know the numbers there already, i guarantee you that you will be shocked, and colleagues and society, you you will be shocked how much money was spent in an uncontrolled manner, if we are allowed to create tsk really under cover, it is not the ministry of energy, and kubrakov spent this money, and ukrenergo, but, but things do not change, you will be the same... how ineffectively they were spent tens of billions of hryvnias, therefore , the right of creditors and donors to control their money, i don't even dispute,

i don't even dispute, that's right. please tell me, but what we are talking about is that this whole story with mustafa naim and his two deputies, what are the grounds for having the prime minister had complaints against them, right? i, look, i was a government official, when you want to fire, do an audit, audit, listen to the report, and you have every reason to fire professionally and calmly and give a political assessment that we... fired nayem, that all responsibility is ours blink for this, who hired him? i didn't take him there, i'm sorry, to clean up, as they say, he snuck in and the entire government team is responsible for nayem and kubrakov, there is no one to point the finger at. thank you, mrs. galina, how are you? you understand the words of mr. oleksiy, monopower means monoresponsibility, and in principle, if there is a question regarding the effective use,

including of western... funds, then obviously this is a question for your team. colleagues, i believe that in fact, in any state, verification tools should work. do anti-corruption bodies work effectively enough in ukraine? well, to be honest, i think that not everyone is. i personally have, for example, very big complaints against bebu, the bureau of economic security and the army. this agency from search and asset management issues. for today. despite the fact that one and the other body, they technically belong to this supposedly anti-corruption infrastructure, in my view suffer from corruption themselves, so it is absolutely normal when allies, allocating large resources, huge resources, and regarding the allocation of these resources in their countries , there are big debates, especially in the states, especially in the run-up to the presidential elections in the states, when congress or... certain, let's say

, forces in congress prefer more of american resources to be spent precisely on solving internal american problems, but nevertheless, they allocate tens of billions of dollars for military and financial aid to ukraine, they want to control this process, including in order to report to their voters why they sent the funds of american taxpayers to help ukraine, after all, i am more than sure that the presence, active presence here of our western allies can only benefit us, why? because we spend a lot of effort, a lot of resources for to communicate the real current situation in ukraine, what the racists are doing, what war crimes they are committing, what other international laws they are violating, but when and

in fact, all these western ones. e western summits, such as the peace summit, such as the big conference, the ukrainian conference on reconstruction, which was in berlin last week, these are all efforts , among other things, to coordinate the efforts of our allies and to inform, but when they themselves proactively are interested in actually being in ukraine and to control, including the aid provided, it can be political for us, i think it's only good, because... they will be aware of what is happening. moreover, i want to tell you that, in fact, from my experience of communicating with many congressmen and representatives of the american government, the more deeply a person is informed about the internal situation in ukraine, the more he becomes an ally of ukraine. for example, i want to remind you of such relatively recent, well

, half-yearly ones, but for american politics. these are relatively recent events, when six months ago a new speaker of the congress was elected from the republicans, he was considered so anti-ukrainian, he did not support previously, as a congressman, various issues and initiatives related to ukraine, but as soon as he became the speaker, as soon as including various types of security services of america began to inform him about the current situation in ukraine. he has significantly, let's say, revised his views, so i personally am not that i am not worried, i may even be happy about the increased attention and presence of our western allies here. thank you, ms. halyna, give it to me god, of course, that our western allies and allies and partners are western, that they do not pay attention to the statements and demarches, including mustafa nayem, because before the conference...