zelensky and putin's war. the world is divided over the end of the war in ukraine. the results of the global peace summit and the kremlin's so-called peace initiatives. a million dollar prosecutor. after the incriminating publication in zma, nabu started criminal proceedings regarding the illegal enrichment of deputy prosecutor general verbytskyi. how will the case end? wartime censorship. the western press writes about the deterioration of the situation with freedom of speech in ukraine during zelenskyi's presidency, is political interference in the work of zmi justified during the war? friends, i remind you that we are working live on the espresso tv channel, as well as on our youtube and facebook platforms, for those who are currently watching us on these platforms, please subscribe to our pages, and also to the survey, today we ask you about , do you feel? are you worsening

the situation with freedom of speech in ukraine? yes, no, everything is quite simple on youtube, if you have your own separate opinion, please write it in the comments under this video, and don't forget, please, like this video, and for those who watch us on tv pick up your smartphone or phone and vote if you feel that the situation of freedom of speech in ukraine is deteriorating (0800-211-381), no 08... 211 382. all calls to these numbers are free, vote at the end of the program, we will match the results of this vote. and i want to introduce our experts today, they are the best political experts of ukraine, viktor boberenko, an expert of the bureau of policy analysis. mr. viktor, i congratulate you and thank you for being with us today. good health to you. ihor reiterovych, political scientist, head of political and legal programs ukrainian center for social development.

mr. igor, i congratulate you, thank you for joining the broadcast. congratulations! so, gentlemen, since we are asking our tv viewers and viewers whether they feel the situation with freedom of speech in ukraine has worsened, i will also ask you what you think, how would you answer this question. let's start with mr. igor. well, we can really observe a certain deterioration, the only thing i would separate here is that there are media that are more connected, let's say, with the authorities, state media, but they are certain... the pressure is political, feels political censorship, this story with dungeons for ukrinform, it was still very revealing. on the other hand, when we talk about independent media, the situation here is still not bad in the sense that there is an opportunity to communicate, there is an opportunity to express one's position, there is an opportunity to conduct journalistic investigations, publish their own results and receive from society and not only from society , sometimes from authorities. certain feedback on these

investigations, but in general and the trend which we can see, if we compare it there, for example, with 2022, it certainly cannot but cause some concern, and this is clearly a reason for a serious conversation and making certain decisions that should improve the situation in the information sphere of ukraine. thank you, mr. igor, but i just have to note that since the 22nd year, three tv channels have not aired in t2 and no one can explain. espresso is the fifth and direct why we were disconnected from t-2, and until now we do not have an answer from the authorities. mr. viktor, first of all, i agree with igor on that in terms of being close to the president's office, mass media feel the pressure of censorship, that is, editorial censorship, for example. they have a very categorical,

for example, there is a list of experts who are not allowed to go there, er, that is also compared to the 22nd year, for example, in sumy oblast, when we were surrounded and there were no other bridges there, in including pro-government channels, they were happy to talk about the situation in sumy oblast, including me, but the situation only got better, they kicked me out, well, i'm not here... not that i don't regret it, but also thank god, maybe, but in the meantime it is indicative, er, as for the er, if independent mass media, then there is also pressure on them, and it happens in what way, this pressure is just that they are left without ee platforms, yes communicative ones, yes, that is , t2 has been turned off, for example, eh, or somehow there, including ee... and they are chasing

local cable networks yes in cities yes there that is why, for example, in my house and that network which in our country, there is , for example, a tv channel. espresso, here i am now just in one of the communities of the sumy region, and you won’t believe it, there is espresso, that is, on the cable network, but it is there, that is, i can now look at myself, yes, here, but meanwhile the pressure is also on the owners of these networks, and so on again, and we also have to pay attention to the fact that bot farms, for example, are blocking opposition to the government and bloggers and so on and so forth there and on youtube channels, this is also a method of pressure or they try to make many of their platforms, including reforging some and

local and local media, such as, for example, of the four tv channels that previously worked in sumy, there is a public one and there are three that show a single marathon, well, there and there with inclusion in their news, but they are also pro-government, because they are controlled, if they were pro-government figures, that's it that there is no pressure, it's direct pressure, that is, they take away the opportunity, well, the platforms from which you can shoot, so i would say that compared to the 22nd year, and even more so to the 19th year, it's a regression, it's a rollback back and trying to control all the information. politics in ukraine, everything is there to be according to the principle, either it is at the only marathon, or it should not be heard, by the way, the same is noted by the new york times, one of the most influential and popular media in the united states of america, this media

published an article based on the opinions of ukrainian journalists, on the worsening situation of freedom of speech in ukraine, and the increasing pressure on journalists and political interference. in zmi's work, i will quote from the new york times. journalists and groups monitoring freedom of the press beat us to the punch because, according to them, the numbers during the administration of president zelensky in ukraine , the restrictions and pressure on zmi are increasing, which go far beyond the country's needs in wartime. gentlemen, how about this comment from the new york times, which will obviously be read by both congressmen and senators in the united states of america, how will it affect the decision. of ukraine as a democratic state and whether zelensky will be asked questions about freedom of speech and freedom of the press, although, well, i am asking a rhetorical question, because the previous report of the state department for the 23rd year

was, in particular, devoted to restrictions freedom of speech and state intervention in the media, as it is important for our western partners who want to see predictively. power, projected democracy and ukraine as a democratic state, mr. igor. well, here it is actually a very simple situation, if our partners pay attention to it, then it is at least important for them, and they do it more than once, and i will remind you that it is not only about the statements of, for example, american senators and congressmen, on reports being prepared for the state department or articles in american media, we have a fairly similar situation with europe itself. by politicians and the european media, who have repeatedly raised these issues, that is, the issue of freedom of speech even during the war is one of the key ones for our partners, since it is not the first time they have spoken about it, the key problem here is that despite all these remarks, which are given with certain

arguments, they are not anonymous, that is, it is either the statements of some specific western politicians there, and they are based on, well , let's say so. the information they receive for example, from ukrainian journalists, and if mass media work there, they also actually communicate with their colleagues there, so the problem is that when this information is voiced, we do not see a sufficient reaction from the government itself, well, specifically in this case first of all, probably the office of the president’s office, because it’s interesting here, western journalists, i don’t know if it was intuitive for them, or if they got to know in more detail with... with our power structure there, they are primarily they use the name of the president of ukraine, as the guarantor of the constitution and, accordingly, the guarantor of freedom of speech, and they understand that the office of the president, who works there, is currently dealing with issues including freedom of speech in ukraine, so

there is no reaction to these remarks, the report of the state department, he remained practically without comments, there were very cursory comments from certain people who position themselves as advisers to the deputy there. or the heads of the office or advisers of advisers, and they had comments, well, excuse me for such a word, quite primitive, they were almost talking about some kind of russian ipso, and this path is really going nowhere, because... dissatisfaction will grow, it will reach, let's say, a new level, and when, god forbid , some critical the situation, for example, in the relationship there between ukraine and our partners, on an issue that will be far from even the issue of freedom of speech, we will immediately remember freedom of speech, how in principle it will be done, well, hypothetically, trump, if he becomes president, he will have to something to cling to, he will have to strengthen his negotiating position, and he will remember that there are violations, there are prisons, censorship, persecution of journalists, surveillance of

journalists, let's not forget the story about the bigos, yes, how they were followed and the entire department of the security service of ukraine was engaged in this, and in this context , this is really a very, very, very big problem for us, it could be solved very easily, that is, to pay attention to these comments, to really carry out a certain transformation of the information space, to abandon some practices that no longer work. . that the effectiveness that they gave there, for example, in the first six months of the large-scale invasion, to return the channels, to explain why they were carried out, i am already silent there about bringing to justice those people who actually did it, because most likely it will not happen, but at least you can admit your mistake, and in this way the government would gain even, would even gain a strong position in the sense that it would definitely not weaken its presence in the information space of ukraine, and on the other hand, well... they had would be better face to our partners, but i understand that they are not going

to do this yet, and there is such a hope that , unfortunately, under the guise of war to some extent, a similar situation will continue in the future, and the goal here is obvious, the goal is very banal: to preserve this control, to maintain this monopolization to a certain extent for the period after the end of the war and the actual election period, because we are immediately waiting for elections at all levels, and it is clear that... well, you know, the temptation to control the information space is huge, and that is why the government will maximally this to drag out the story, to call all those who do not agree as representatives of the aggressor country there, or as those who do not really understand the situation that has actually developed in ukraine. mr. viktor, what do you think about the government's ignoring of these remarks, hints and already direct conclusions regarding the restriction of freedom of speech, how long have i been president. the team can behave like this, it is clear that at the beginning of the great

war, zelensky demonstrates the ability to destroy the canons that exist in diplomacy, in the international community, that is, he is trying to change diplomacy, to behave a little so, let's say, belligerently towards our partners, to demand more. it is not diplomatic to talk to them, if they talk to him like that, what will happen, i call this method the zelenskyi tam alo, why are we not in nato, yes, why are we still not in nato, they think that it works, the same , how they change, well , even uniforms, yes, everyone at the summit of switzerland was in suits in cribs, only green ones. with yaremak in some fleeces, yes, but what needs to be said, we have to

to note that the state of ukraine is fighting for europe, well, for civilization in general, yes, for the values ​​that we call universal values, yes, including freedom of speech, without confessing it, which is probably an idol for zelenskyi there is, well, either orban, or lukashenko’s father, well, we don’t want... putin, but in fact they behave like this, and besides, as my colleague did not prove, yes, let’s name the heroes, these are the advisors of the advisors, yes there, or positive bloggers who say if you say the only marathon, it it's bad, you're doing ipso, you're a scumbag, that is, if you say that the state of ukraine is being stolen, then what are you? for putin, maybe you will stop stealing simply and that's all, you will stop living on

kickbacks, well, there are two versions of what is happening, yes there, that is, this or here, well, now i am traveling around all the front-line communities there the front line, and there, well, in a certain project , we are distributing kits for the affected households, yes , there is such a volunteer project, and... i see all the buildings, including, well, including a banal banal example, there i bring two guys to the nearest community and they simply ask how much they pay you, they say, they pay you in cash every day... a thousand a day, do we work, do we not work, or are we idle, that's all, my exit to work, for conditional 10 working hours somewhere, there with delivery from home to home, there it is 100 hryvnias, but as cash, as cash, and how about you, if you do not work officially, how can you be smeared by the tsc there, there it is, well, somehow, i don't know, they don't touch us, that is, it's not

corruption, you want to say, and if i'm talking about it i will say now, and seryoga will say, this dog, he works for putin. well, if seryoga eats , give two more a ride, they will tell you the same thing, that is, they accuse others of their sins, that is, profiting during war is the norm, and talking about it is treason, that cannot happen, that is and that's why we have to say in the end what we're saying, that it can't be bad to say that... that they don't actually profess democratic values, that the office of the president acts, well, at best, like the orbán regime, in worst, like lukashenko's parents, ihor absolutely right, we immediately understand what it is for, to then manipulate a certain part of the electorate and hold power forever, yes, well, well, because

the loss of power, at least, if not for zelensky, then for yermak. may end with him being caught, but they stick to it and violate, yes, violate the standards, and in this way they simply destroy our relations with civilization, and they will be told about this, and not only that, they will use against them, but one should not complain, not allocate, not talk about treason, but simply stop doing it's not clear, but they... can't do it, because they can't, because they are, no matter what, they are still ideologically, they are closer to dictatorial regimes than to civilization, such is the paradox of ukraine, so the paradox is in the thing about ukraine is that it is a new political generation, that is, it is relatively young and the newest, yes, but it is more

prone to authoritarianism and dictatorship. regimes, you mentioned, gentlemen, about corruption, about the level of corruption in ukraine, and of course, without mass media, well, probably we would not have known about the deputy prosecutor general dmytro verbytskyi, who became a figure in one of the journalistic investigations, the prosecutor general of ukraine andriy kostin did not come to the verkhovna rada to provide explanations regarding the origin of the wealth of his deputy dmytro verbytskyi, despite an official summons. in a letter addressed to the chairman. verkhovna rada ruslan stefanchuk. the prosecutor general suggested postponing the debate in parliament until the results of the official investigation are received. according to the facts published in media, regarding the property of deputy prosecutor general orbytskyi, i have appointed an official investigation, which continues today. subject to the above-mentioned circumstances, it seems appropriate to postpone the discussion

of this situation in the verkhovna rada of ukraine until the results of the official investigation are obtained. actually, what is it about, that my colleagues. journalists recorded that the girl, deputy prosecutor general dmytro verbytskyi, has wealth, great wealth, she bought a house during the war, and for 48 million uah, and drives a luxury car, she explains that she she earned all this before the meeting with dmytro verbytskyi, there are different explanations, but the fact itself remains the fact that... the deputy prosecutor general of ukraine, well, he cannot explain the origin of these fortunes, andriy kosti does not come to the verkhovna rada, he also does not explain about what is happening with his deputy. the public inquiry has just come out. the deputy director of the sbi lives in an apartment for 900 thousand dollars, although he declares a rented apartment, we are talking about

oleksandr udovichenko, the head of the main investigative department of the state bureau. investigation, he lives in an apartment in one of the most elite housing complexes in kyiv, and the official's declaration mentions real estate, there is no information at all. at the same time, there is also information from the american chamber of commerce, they wrote an article and calculated that the shadow trade in tobacco products in 2022-23 led to budget losses in the amount of 42.5 billion hryvnias, which is more than 1 billion dollars, and the chamber calls on the authorities of the state authorities to start a real fight against the shadow economy, and they say that it was possible to use the funds of the wall trade in cigarettes b... buy 30 f-16 fighter jets, well, all this information and publicity, or rather this information indicates that if there was no

freedom of speech and if journalists did not work, maybe we would not know about it, but since there is freedom words and even in a limited or censored version in state media, private media still provide this information, and mr. igor, how is this information? nation is perceived by our partners and do they understand and know about the scale of corruption in ukraine, because when we start talking about corruption in ukraine and in people's deputies in my studio, especially from the servants of the servants of the people, they say that we exaggerate when we talk about the level of corruption in ukraine, and that they say that journalists specially emphasize this, which is not so great in our country and corruption. i am here, unfortunately, probably for the people's deputies from the servant of the people to agree with them, i cannot agree, i can agree in the sense that some of the data that is given, for example, about

ukrainian corruption in some western media, is even before the beginning of a large-scale invasion, they were really exaggerated to some extent, that is, it was such a, well, you know , a topic that was very well dispersed, warmed up, and it created a very unfavorable image for ukraine, almost the most corrupt country in the world, but this does not... really cancel those facts , which exist today, and which, again, unfortunately, only intensified during the war, especially in the last one and a half years, and how our partners react to this, well, first of all, i am convinced that they are absolutely in courses of all that what happens is, secondly, they make certain conclusions for themselves, and these conclusions are not only of such, you know, theoretical nature, there are also practical, let's say, consequences related to creation. and additional bodies that check, for example, the aid that comes to ukraine, and the conversations that are being held about the fact that when it comes to the real reconstruction of our state, then most likely

, the funds for this reconstruction will be taken care of again, there will be some a specially created body, well, in the form of a commission or agency, it does not matter here what it will be called, which will again be fully controlled by our partners, they will control where these funds will go, this is certainly not a very positive moment, because it says: that certain institutions in ukraine, institutions , they actually do not work, despite statements about very significant reforms there and so on, and the government is primarily responsible for these failures . just reminding our hon tv viewers that as of the beginning of february, the beginning of february 22nd, well, that is, there a couple of weeks before the start of... the large-scale war that russia started, ah, so it was opened in nabu, in the nazk, in the nazk more than 100 cases have been opened, there are 104, it seems, cases

of 104 people's deputies from the servant of the people, which were related to, well, let's say, inconsistencies in their de there were checks, then the declarations were closed, then they were opened relatively recently. and we see that now there are already criminal cases opened there, because they cannot explain the correspondence of their actual wealth to the income they received, the situation, for example, with the deputy prosecutor general, it is blatant, not in the plan, of course, this the court, there should be an investigation and so on, it may not even reach the court, we understand all the specifics there, but it is blatant in the sense that, unfortunately, may the people's deputies forgive me, who really work from morning to night, but about supreme once again they simply wiped their feet, because this is not even disrespect, it is a demonstrative rejection of the key, well, right and duty of the verkhovna rada to exercise proper

parliamentary control, including over law enforcement agencies, i think the prosecutor general did not have well , it wasn't a problem, a long time ago, to get the results of some official investigation, because this information is in zmi, it's not the first day and not the first week. appears, and in principle, he does not need much time there to bring this investigation to some logical conclusion, if he is not going to, let him go, that he should have come to the verkhovna rada and said, we have already checked everything, everything is fine, but he does not do this, because he hopes that all the situation somehow, you know, will simply fall out of this information stream, it will no longer be so relevant, maybe he will no longer have to come, report and tell what is happening there with his deputies, although now in... the council and in in principle, there is an opportunity to call him once again, only in a stricter and certain format, if not, then to make some decisions, including those of a personnel

nature, to appeal to the president. because this is an absolutely unacceptable situation, the council of the eu created a commission to combat corruption and embezzlement of western aid to ukraine, does this indicate that they do know about this corruption and embezzlement of western aid? well, of course, they know, they keep their finger on the pulse, i'll say simple too in words from my own experience, yes, if eh, well, i’m regional, well, an expert who lives there in the region will return, i’m not... a kyivan , yes, and if some ambassadors come to sumy, then they, of course, of course , what 's their business, they make an official visit there to the regional military administration, somewhere to the mayor, then they will show them where else what the authorities can show, they usually show some potomkin village, or there the beauty of ekiban, which look, it's cool, it's cool, it's cool, it's cool, but then m... definitely

the ambassador or there are representatives of large international organizations there, there are many of them here, yes , who work in ukraine, they want to meet with scientists, with us from the media, with some, well, investigative journalists, with public activists, in the end they go there and do several such meetings, including there, for example, lunch or dinner, and where everyone just talks: if the head of the administration says: everything is cool with us, we are the whitest, the fluffiest, and then we show the facts, so look, first, second , third, fourth, plus they are something in embassies read from open sources, they make a picture from activists, and not necessarily uh, well, that is, i think that they draw conclusions not based on a single marathon, yes, including on this one, on this

program, yes, there like... and they make some conclusions, prejudices, of course, they, like reasonable people, check whether the true fact that that journalist said is true , whether bigus has it, whether boberenko said something, of course, it is from many sources, but if they have information from many sources, and all, and everyone says that there is something wrong there, and then the deputy will return, there is some woman for... the successor of the general prosecutor cannot explain where she got such beauty, and there are such cars, such houses, such apartments, and in the same way with 104 people's deputies, the conclusion suggests itself, that is, as in an old russian film, they judge you, but you don't steal, but it can't be otherwise, and that's why , of course, when they...

decide that we will have a special commission that will be there until june 30, 28 monitors constantly, and they will have a permanent office in kyiv, then there it’s like, well, if you don’t spin, that is, you either have to change yourself, because this eternal thing there will not pass , like, what, what will you do to stop helping us, after all, what is ukraine's problem in the grand scheme of things that comes... a certain misha podalyak and says: volodymyr oleksandrovich, what will they do to us? they will still help us under any conditions, because we are fighting for civilization, that's why there is like kroy vaska, there is no god, yes, this is something from dostoevshchyna, yes, we got it, there we are like we can do what you want, because there will be no responsibility anyway, we will not be ordered in any way, because when ordering the people of ukraine, the government of the state of ukraine is actually ordering, they

are ordering the people of ukraine, they are on...