tion of anti-western forces, anti-american, anti-european, well, of course, about the events in ukraine, about the fight against corruption, why blinken told zelensky that the problem of fighting corruption is quite relevant now for the ukrainian state, and what consequences it will have, not the fight actually with corruption, we will talk about it all during the next hour. our guests will be people's deputy of ukraine, former head of the security service of ukraine valentyn nalyvaichenko, diplomat oleksandr khara and chairman of the board of the institute of world politics, viktor shlinchak. however, before starting our big conversation, i suggest you watch the video of how the defense forces of ukraine carried out drone strikes on russian oil depots in adygea, krasnodar krai and tambovsk this night. oblast, let's see how it was,

where is the ensky bridge, here it is, it's burning, it just recently blew up.

by the armed forces of ukraine and death to the russian occupiers. friends, we work live on the espresso tv channel, as well as on our youtube and facebook platforms. for those currently watching us live on these platforms, please subscribe to our pages, like this video, and also take part in our vote. today we ask you about this, do you see in ukraine? strengthening the fight against corruption, yes, no, everything is quite simple on youtube, either yes or no, if you have your own opinion, please leave it in the comments below this video. if you are watching us on tv, pick up your smartphone or phone and vote. if you see the strengthening of the fight against corruption in ukraine, call 0800-211-381, no 08021-382. all calls to these numbers are available free, vote, at the end of the program we will summarize it. voting, i

would like to introduce our first guest today, people's deputy of ukraine, former head of the security service of ukraine valenty nalyvaichenko. mr. valentin, i congratulate you, thank you for being with us today. good evening, glory to ukraine. glory as a hero. let's start our conversation, mr. valentin, with the strikes of the defense forces of ukraine on the russian oil depots, this night there were strikes on the oil depots in... gays in the krasnodar territory, as well as in the tambov region, the blows were powerful enough, and the russian public responded quite actively and users of social networks commented on what was happening there, does this mean, mr. valentin, that the russian war machine may run out of fuel, and this is a systematic work of destruction. logistics, military logistics

of the russian federation, which they worked out a long time ago, which works on the russian-ukrainian front. this means that russian aggression has returned to the territory of the russian federation itself, this is the first and most important, and indeed, the armed forces ukraine now manages to solve two very important tasks for the liberation of ukraine with high-precision weapons. the first task is destruction. oil, gasoline and other fuel capabilities of the aggressor country, because it is not a secret for anyone in the world that it is at such oil refineries or terminals that the enemy stores and manufactures fuel, diesel, everything that is possible only for aggression, for invasions, for refueling their endless these old soviet tanks, battleships and everything that temporarily occupies the ukrainian land, this is... the first task, which now

finally, thank god, and thanks to our partners, we have more opportunities, our armed forces, to destroy, thereby reducing the pressure and aggression on... on our defenders. the second task, which is solved by such high-precision strikes of the armed forces of ukraine, is the task of deterring the enemy, deterring, advancing. this is not just logistics, this is, you know, a word for, perhaps for tv viewers, most of them are not completely familiar, but the fact that the enemy cannot advance further, is not able refuel at least one tank, that means we saved at least one company of our defenders, especially if... we are talking now about the eastern direction, the kharkiv direction and so on, these are the tasks that are very important, and such high-precision strikes allow the armed forces of ukraine to complete these tasks solve. mr. valentine, us senator john mccain once said that russia is

a gas station, a gas station country, then he actually clarified that it is a gas station that is controlled by the mafia and pretends to be a country, can we talk now. that everything is in russia after all, there is much more power than we are hitting these refineries and oil depots, that they have this infinity of gas stations that will allow them to continue the war? i myself have met with senator mccain several times in congress when he was alive and i confirm that he had a strategic vision and knowledge of the opportunities and lack of opportunities in the russian federation since... since then the following has changed: in russia there have been much fewer opportunities, there are no basically new technologies, especially those previously imported by american and british oil refining and oil mining corporations, and therefore russia cannot extract what putin and his regime used to produce,

much less than before, and even more so cannot increase production of either oil or gas. the second is during the putin regime. and especially the last two years and four months , putin and his regime, his war criminals, spent on the war against ukraine, not only oil and gas reserves, not only technical capabilities and defense capabilities, but also even their financial, as they called the fund there, and everything for long decades of excess profits from gas and oil trading on the european and world markets. postponed, as it now turned out, they were postponed, but not for russian citizens, not for the country of the russian federation itself, but postponed for aggression against ukraine, so this also ends, but what, mr. serhiy, is also important, that there will be no replenishment of this money , this fund and

there will be no increase in oil and gas production in russia, to be precise, on the contrary, collapse, decreases, and their economy, especially in the most sensitive segment. from the production of gas, oil and other minerals is actually decreasing, as well as the profit is decreasing, and the last, today's decision of the ambassadors of the eu member states, all 27 countries decided to introduce the 14th package of sanctions, and it will precisely, in particular, concern the transportation of russian liquefied gas through finland, sweden, where there were still loopholes, and the russian federation, citing... relying on previous long-term contracts, actually tried and supplied their lng continues to be the world market, and now these loopholes are also covered by the latest 14th package of sanctions of the european union

against russia for its aggression against ukraine. against the background of the sanctioning actions of our western partners, which have taken place over the past two weeks, we see that... the russian federation does seek to destroy the energy infrastructure of ukraine, this night equipment was damaged at facilities in vinnytsia, dnipropetrovsk, donetsk and kyiv regions, this is reported by ukrenergo, that is, russia deliberately leads ukraine to a humanitarian disaster, strikes civilian objects, violates international law, and generally all, all, all rules of warfare. and in this situation, i will ask you, as a diplomat, whether the un should convene an urgent meeting of the un security council or the un general assembly, because it is clear that what putin is doing, he

simply wants to force the ukrainians , to put pressure on zelenskyi and push him to the so -called peace talks, turning the civilian'. the population is held hostage, held hostage by the fact that there is no light, no water, perspective that big cities will find themselves on the brink of a humanitarian catastrophe very soon. first and foremost, the country must be immediately recognized as the aggressor country, russia, as a terrorist country, because they are a terrorist country, because the strikes, including today's night, their most extreme strike, by shaheds in the kyiv region, vinnytsia and others, with rockets on our energy infrastructure, this is another act of terrorism, but you know, during a large-scale aggression, all this in the... other than the genocide of the ukrainian people, and it is being carried out on the personal orders

of putin's russian federation military, and they are deliberately destroying civilian infrastructure. i mentioned all this in order to clearly and unambiguously, without any doubts, qualify such actions of the russian federation as terrorism. united nations. september of this year will be the general assembly, regular, annual. i am among those people's deputies. who insists, and we will definitely do it so that it is clear at this general assembly: firstly, russia is excluded from of the security council, secondly, that it should be recognized as a terrorist country, thirdly, that during this summit the general assembly should still hold a second global peace summit at our proposal, after the first summit, and already at the second summit a tough decision was definitely made ... partnerships and russia with the un immediately stop the war and stop

the war, pressure and reparations and all that the russian federation has to pay later, how to pay the aggressor, must also be decided, and without delay i will repeat this in september of this year at the un general assembly in new york. such decisions are urgent. and very briefly about energy, mr. sergey. today, in the verkhovna rada, we just passed the law by which we are removing, removed. all payments, vat and so on, from energy equipment, from equipment for water supply, drainage, which is provided by our partners, as humanitarian aid, simply put, directly, immediately from the countries, our partners in the anti-putin coalition, everything that is needed for water supply, water drainage of cities and villages of ukraine will be supplied directly with and without taxes delays this is how we should act. moreover, support from international partners not only does not decrease, it does not even remain at

the previous level, it increases precisely in those matters that concern energy equipment, all tools that are needed for repair and even increasing and in a more modern form, providing equipment for our communities and cities throughout ukraine that suffered or continue to suffer from russia's terrorist missile and shahe attacks. well, against this background, of course, we are all waiting for the july summit of the north atlantic alliance nato secretary general jens stoltenberg said that at the upcoming summit in washington , we should not expect concrete statements regarding ukraine's membership in the alliance, but there will be a clear message about the prospects of our country's membership. let's listen to the secretary general of nato. we've seen new announcements, and i expect there will be announcements. on providing greater military support to ukraine. i am sure that we will also

have wording that ukraine will become a member of the alliance. the precise wording of exactly what we will agree on is currently being discussed among nato members, but i am sure that by summit we will have a good agreement on the solution. mr. valentin, taking into account the fact that last week was such a large ukrainian one. such a week in europe and in the world, because there were many summits, meetings, the big seven, rammstein, and of course, what jens stunterberg says, hinting that there will be some positive news for ukraine, is encouraging, because after the statements of joe biden, that he is against the natovization of ukraine, here it seems that some hope is given to the ukrainian state, and obviously we are talking about the military help and... and apparently, i think so, about nato military instructors who may

appear in ukraine, am i wrong, you are not mistaken, and not only instructors from nato member countries will appear in ukraine for training our defenders, especially those who are now mobilizing, because a trained defender is a protected defender, but for our television viewers, let's give an exclusive, nato has already started concrete steps today, the first... step is the united states of america, its manufacturers of patriot missiles and anti-aircraft systems patriot defense, the most effective, as it turned out, countermeasures against russian missile terrorism. manufacturers, according to the decision of us president biden and his government, now prioritize supplies to ukraine and the armed forces of ukraine. those european and other customers and their contracts that existed before that, which are suspended and moving in time, will supply ukraine in the first place, i repeat, both missiles and

patriot air defense systems, these are american partners, nato members. the second, today's decision is also planned. preparations for the nato summit in july of this jubilee year in washington. the second solution is that the american, british and other partners worked, as we, by the way, worked with the south korean government, not to be confused with the north, and the south korean government lifts restrictions and bans on the supply of high-quality, modern armored vehicles, missile equipment for ukraine. and i, as a specialist. i assure you that the south korean missile systems, especially their armored equipment, produced by north korea, are of an extremely high level, and such equipment, by the way, is used in nato, in countries nato members. among the main customers, come to think of it, such equipment from south korea, they dream and order and pay, are the poles,

poland, and here ukraine also takes the first places and, we hope, as much as possible. more will be supplied for the armed forces. i cited all this as today's fresh examples of the fact that preparations for the nato summit have already begun. one more thing is very important: the nato fund, which was announced by secretary general stoltenberg and , by the way, he agreed with us president biden in washington, will also be created, i think it was launched already in july this year at the anniversary summit of nato. this is another, if you will, this, you know, more serious step for... our membership in nato, i'm not talking about the fact that nato member countries have just agreed and the next new secretary general of nato will most likely be mark rutte , this is the prime minister of holland, as you know, of the netherlands, and of that very country, and this is exactly the same high-ranking official who supported and supports the provision of f-16 universal

fighters to ukraine, before that the netherlands transferred patriots and the system and missiles and continues to transfer . i myself have met with the delegation of the netherlands several times, they come to kyiv quite often, and they are our serious partners, and the prime minister of this country, the future secretary general of nato, a serious ally and partner of ukraine, this is all that encourages us and that makes us stronger even before the summit in july. thank you, mr. valentin, for the conversation, it was valentin nalyvaichenko, people's deputy of ukraine, former head of the security service of ukraine. friends, we continue. vati live on the tv channel, as well as on our platforms in youtube and facebook, for those who are currently watching us on these platforms, please subscribe to our pages, and also take part in our survey, today we are asking you what you think about corruption, how effective it is in ukraine, whether do you see the strengthening of the fight against corruption in ukraine, yes,

no, vote on youtube with the appropriate buttons, if you have a separate opinion that does not fit into unequivocal answers, write... please to us under this post or under this youtube video, if you watch us on tv pick up your smartphone or phone and vote with the appropriate numbers, yes 0800 211 381, if you see an increase in the fight against corruption in ukraine, no 0800 211 382, ​​all calls to these numbers are free, vote, at the end of the program we will sum up the results of this vote . next, we will be in touch with oleksandr khara, diplomat, expert on foreign affairs. and security policy of the center for defense strategies. mr. oleksandr, i congratulate you, thank you for being with us today. good evening, mr. sergey, congratulations. let's talk, mr. oleksandr, about putin's trip to east asia, north korea, vietnam, before that there was china, and there is already a reaction from our western partners who say that putin

is trying to create a coalition of anti-western states, authoritarian states. nato secretary general jen stoltenberg also talks about authoritarianism and these authoritarian states. he says that the treaty between russia and north korea demonstrates the mutual support of authoritarian states. let's hear what he said. north korea has provided russia with a huge amount of ammunition. we actually see them loading containers with ammunition into trains in north korea. and these trains go all the way to the front line, there they are unloaded and these ammunitions fall directly to the front, hitting the ukrainians. of course, in response, russia surrenders to north korea. we are very deeply concerned about the possibility of russian support for their nuclear and missile programs. mr. alexander,

given the list of countries, plus iran and plus syria, does this mean that putin is trying to create some kind of alternative to the north atlantic alliance and create such a military bloc with the participation of countries, asian countries and... countries of east asia? well, even if he wanted to, he wouldn't be able to do it, because there is a more powerful player there, china, with whom all these countries count more than the russian federation, of course, what he has, there is a coincidence of interests with china for sure , but there are also disagreements, and to be honest, i can't even imagine how much beijing gave birth to this security agreement with kimchenin, and how happy they are that the russian federation is ready to share with this short dictator in exchange for... ammunition and equipment and rocket technologies, space technologies, and possibly even nuclear technologies, if

we are talking about nuclear submarines. so i think it's an attempt, or at least to make it look like it's not in isolation, that it doesn't need the west, it can rely on the so-called global south, it's such a rather... washed-out term and in fact there is no global south, well, he is trying to create such and such an impression, and the actual meaning of this visit was to gain support, i think that, first of all, i am from north korea, in vietnam, for the most part, his were interested in energy projects, it is clear that the loss of sales markets in civilized countries pushes it to look for new partners, well , also in... we have traditionally been, shall we say, an important buyer of russian weapons before the large-scale invasion, almost 80% of what was imported by yes, it came from

russia, so it really is an attempt to formalize in a certain way this axis of evil, the anti-liberal axis, but i don't think that anyone sees such a capable leader in russia, and someone wants to create certain blocs in order to to... fight with the countries of the west, primarily with the united states, but north korea, it is one of those countries against which a lot of sanctions have been imposed, and it is an exile country, well, an outcast in russian , it sounds better, probably understandable even in this situation, that is, north korea is an exile in the world. and putin does everything in order to justify authoritarianism, dictatorship, kemchynin, and does everything in order

to explain that the west, they say, behaves unfairly with north korea, today he was in vietnam and said to journalists that the sanctions against north korea remind him of the blockade of leningrad, well, that is, some kind of comparison, to be honest, something that... you can compare, as ivan stepanovych, plyushch said, you can't be pushed away by those who don't move, well, it's about the same, you see, he took and compared some two different situations, but the very fact of putin's stay in north korea is a sign that he wants to use the military potential of korea, north korea, which has 80%, probably , of what they produce in the country, this weapons of various kinds. this weapon, well, we know that grandfather a native of kimirsen, he was already a captain of the soviet army, well, the impression is that it is all similar to what putin is trying

to do in the post-soviet space now, that is, somewhere these bitterns were scattered around ukraine and did the same thing. yes, by the way, unfortunately, the agreement signed by north korea is not yet publicly available. the russian federation, and it caused such a response in the expert environment, since there is a clause that in the event of an attack on one of the countries, the other will provide military and other assistance, it is true that there are provisions of national legislation and article 51 of the un charter, i.e. the right to self-defense, but by and large , these are all wordings, they are taken out of the closets. in the 60s, when there was an evil empire, the communist evil empire, and there were such satellites, and it is clear that putin is constantly trying to invent something new. looking at

what the soviet union did at one time, and if we are talking about north korea, well , it is clear that they are renegades, you are absolutely right, but already recently, well, after the sharikamash invasion, there have already been several times when the russian federation, as a permanent member of the security council, actually blocked the continuation of sanctions against this regime, that is , it is trying to use its, let's say, formal ... status of the russian federation in order to help the north korean dictator to help he is in the war against, but you know, there is also a positive thing in this agreement, which is that south korea will probably revise its, let's say, views on the supply of weapons to ukraine, if until recently it was non-aircraft weapons, then taking into account such the approach of north korea to the russian

federation, perhaps we can... count on south korean weapons and ammunition, and they are in large quantities, first of all, and secondly, they are of no worse quality than the americans, mostly they produced under license, and there are, of course, his own developments, that is why such a move by putin may turn out to be positive for him, or rather positive for us, negative for him, of course there will be other consequences, first of all... all the countries of the region will understand that russia is increasing its negative influence , trying to blow up security, although if you look at the joint communique after the visit to vietnam, there is such, you know, pharisaical phrases that both countries will contribute to the establishment of a multipolar world, justly, which is based on the un charter, on the rejection of threats of use strength

moreover, the use of force in the world, he says the right things that are written in the un charter, but in reality we understand that neither he nor you, with whom he signs such documents, are certainly not those who follow the letter and the spirit of the un charter. mr. oleksandr, today at at the end of his visit to vietnam, putin spoke a lot, including about ukraine to journalists and commented on his so-called peace initiatives. with which he came out on the eve of the global peace summit, and what he said, he said that the reaction of western countries was predicted, and russia's proposals regarding the future of the russian-ukrainian war will change depending on the situation on the ground, this is the first, second, that for russia , a strategic defeat will mean the end of its statehood, if the west wants it, then they will fight to the end, because there is nothing to fear

and you have to go to the end. and the third thing that putin said is that if ukraine expects that russian troops will leave the territory of the ukrainian state, then this will never happen. well, actually, he clarified his so-called peace plan, which actually means a war plan. well, that is, what he said a week ago, it was simply a challenge to our western partners and ukraine, er, and his conditions, they were. unacceptable, does this mean that putin has enough strength and opportunities for a long time to participate in the russian-ukrainian war, to wage this war, and most importantly to preserve his large military contingent on the territory of the ukrainian state, on the temporarily occupied territories, and you know, i think that he himself does not know whether he has enough forces, because

it is clear from the fact that when he accepted. decision for a large-scale invasion, that he does not have adequate information and understanding about his own forces, about ukraine, well , they miscalculated the reaction of the world, first of all, of course, free countries. the second point, it is clear that he will pretend to be someone who has set himself up for a prolonged conflict, that he can use all the available resources to mobilize for the continuation of the war, eh, but this may be an illusion, because... of course, there are interesting examples from the history of the same soviet union, which fought in afghanistan, and the efficiency of the economy, which was absolutely insufficient for all those, let's say, expenses to support the eastern bloc, to participate in various projects in other parts of the world.