the work of the coordinated work of the cabinet of ministers and the parliament, i always prevent corruption so that it does not exist, look, imagine a dam, a big dam, here we need water, which should pour on the rotor, and provide electricity, but in these this dam has holes, corruption, from which a huge amount of scarce water is pouring out, to the point that the power plant stops working, what should be done? first of all , law enforcement agencies testify about these holes, they say, look, they are stealing here, and we detained him, they are stealing here and we took him to court, they are stealing here and we have already put him in prison, and the government should think about what to do to make it impossible to steal like this, because in my history there were four heads of the regional gas company in one region who stole at one place and another himself, or there was a famous state enterprise of horses of ukraine, there were 16, it seems like a joke, but 10... tons

of land, where every new director, after the previous arrest, did the same thing, planted wheat illegally and put it in his pocket. so what should be done about it? the cabinet says what needs to be done, and the parliament accepts law, and this loophole is closed. we closed such holes according to the analysis of western experts during poroshenko's time for 4 billion euros of annual losses. it was a good job, but of course it was not finished. to date, this is already the case. there is no image of a dam with individual holes, there is a huge pump visible to everyone, which absolutely brazenly pumps state water beyond this dam into someone's private pools, right in front of everyone, and this pump works even more powerfully than in yanukovych's time. i, this is me, the person who sat behind at the direction of yanukovych, now i catch myself thinking that his corruption was... not as

terrible as it is today, because then from the small district police department or the city health department and even schools, everyone collected a tax and sent it upstairs, leaving for themselves a certain percentage, this is a state mafia, but there was still some order in it, because the state economy was spinning at the same time, one way or another, and yanukovych's losses from yanukovych's rule amounted to one annual budget, that is, in four... years, he stole from ukraine one annual budget, but what is happening today is simply destroying the economy. ask any businessman when the worst times were for the system to function. the fact that today the war is of course a terrible reason, but there is no purchasing power, but at the same time the state is pressuring business like never before. the brutal controlling structures, completely uncontrolled, grab everything that is available, not in order to transfer it to the mountain, but simply to ...

rob, and why do they do this, because there is complete irresponsibility, the most terrible thing in a situation with corruption, when the bottom official the apparatus feels complete impunity, if billions are stolen on the mountain, then i have the right to steal a million, and i will not get anything for it, because we act in the same way, under yanukovych they transferred everything to the mountain and were controlled, now they keep almost everything to themselves in their free time . from corruption for the higher echelons, and this contagion has covered the whole country, moreover, the cabinet of ministers at the same time issues simply crazy decisions to finish off business, well, think about it, now it turns out that they are going to punish businessmen for exceeding the noise at the operation of generators, that is, the state cannot provide energy, it could not protect it by stealing, well, actually throwing half a billion bucks into the wind, but you are a businessman,

pay for the noise in your small cafe, this is the businessman on whose shoulders, in principle, the whole state rests, well, this means, there will be inspectors who will go around and take money, or, for example, you, a businessman, have to fulfill our presidential function on mobilization, now they are obliged to serve subpoenas, how does it end, they they release these people, you know, but against this background, i wanted to ask you at the very end of our program about how people's deputies are trying to take over the powers of other... including security agencies, this is the story with mykola otyschenko in dnipro, when there was a conflict with the former military personnel of the kraken unit, and he came there to smash some call center with some guys there, and there was no reaction, today i watched, i was interested in the sbi, the police, the prosecutor general's office, well, somehow they should react to this, what was it anyway, i knew that sergius, that you can't not be asked this. in fact, this is not a shallow and not a funny

event, i will always remember november 23 , 20. of the second year, when there were very hot events in the defense of bakhmut, just as the first wave of wagners rolled in, and i saw in our machine guns, we were flying drones nearby , but the machine gunners are standing waist-deep in water, and the trenches were passing through the city dump, there was swimming in this water, well, i guess that he is all black from the powder gases, his teeth are white, his eyes are red from...

that nasty material, what was it made of? servant, he is a pure bull, who just demonstratively spits on everyone and does what he wants, well, he was not molded in the servants of the people, he was an obolon puppet, but he was not there, he molded some restaurants, did not return loans to banks, somewhere there was a small group of six in the kyiv, savlohov ba... that’s it and here he became a deputy and also the best man, well, that’s all, he got carried away, this is one symbol, well, we’ll say the best man of ermak, that’s for sure that he guaranteed any irresponsibility, he donates bulletproof vests to the checkpoint, which are 20 years old, which they can't even withstand a pistol bullet, he

gets away with it, he goes to thailand under the curfew and on the beaches there, he gets away with it, he is engaged in pure violations of the law in transcarpathia. a mercenary, not a syrian, not there sodulya or ot. she bombs the army, she bombs not other generals, she bombs the entire leadership of the armed forces, claiming that they all continue to call the words criminals, butchers, and alcoholics, and everything that whatever, she just... criticizes the armed forces of ukraine, and now today i thought, they are among themselves, by the way, they are enemies, don't you think that they are two sides of the same coin? kolya tishchenko, nicknamed kotleta, attacked a military serviceman with

aunts who guard his fat body on the streets of dnipro, and there is no mention of call centers, it is about something that is going younger... a guy, a veteran, a volunteer with a nursery school in a stroller, makes a remark, why people walk in supposedly military uniforms, with weapons exposed, without tardy signs, and at the same time they knock him down in the presence of the police, who are standing and are afraid to touch this madman, i'm just holding back a bit now to avoid saying the words that are aptly used here, how it ends, only a complete idiot, even a bigger idiot than the champion of wednesday... can contact a krakin veteran walking with a child. so here is my word now, as the ex-minister of internal affairs and ex-prosecutor general, or the ministry of internal affairs according to its jurisdiction, this is the third section of the criminal

code, freedom, honor and violation of the freedom, honor and dignity of a citizen, and the sbi according to its dignity, appropriation of power , because they completely took care of themselves. not your own he will be a black swan cutlet, we have the authority to open a criminal case and they will all be arrested, the public prosecutor's office will sign the cancellation, or the cutlet will become a black swan for the authorities, and it will be huge us, let them finish, thank you for the conversation, glory to ukraine, dear tv viewers, on the air of the tv channel west studio program, we will analyze the most important events of this week, in particular, we will talk about the results of the swiss summit and we will analyze putin's visit to his henchman kim

jong-un in north korea. ours today guests, former minister of defense of poland, chairman of the senate committee on european integration bohdan klig, as well as a member of the russian opposition. grace former member of the state duma mark feigin. and now there is an extremely important conversation on the air of the tv channel. our guest is bohdan klich, ex-minister of defense of the republic of poland, chairman of the senate affairs committee. of the european union. congratulations, mr. bohdan, glory to ukraine. good afternoon, glory to ukraine. glory to heroes. well, the key story. the story with the poles was extremely painful in ukraine patriots, perhaps not fully understanding what they mean, i would accordingly ask you to tell me. what is the position of poland, do we have a chance to get american patriots or polish patriots and in general, what do you think of the concept that poland, perhaps together with the rest of us... western allies, would cover part of our ukrainian sky from

russian missiles. first of all, it should be said that polish-ukrainian military cooperation has its own history. i myself am responsible for part of this story, when i was the deputy prime minister of defense in 1999-2000. and later, when he became the minister of defense, believing that there is no safe poland without an independent ukraine. and this opinion is supported by a significant number of the polish political elite. and since 1991, it has been steadily implemented. and especially now during the war, and the first war, and the second war of russia against ukraine. that is why poland is one of the main donors when it comes to military support for ukraine. i mean support with military equipment and ammunition. days after february 24, 2022.

there is the question of the aviation coalition, the armored coalition coalition, there is the question of the coalition on munitions, and obviously there is the question of the anti-aircraft and anti-missile coalition. and i understand that it is about the last one that you are asking, since there are gaps in your sky, while it should be as closed as possible. and that is why poland supports all the actions of those countries. which have anti-aircraft means aimed at the needs of ukraine. we ourselves delivered part of our anti-aircraft weapons to ukraine, when we still had more of them in storage. the question about polish patriots is a false question, because unfortunately we only own two patriot batteries. yes, we don't have them anymore. in this regard, we cannot afford to open our sky. but the americans stationed in poland. have several batteries, so the protection by one american battery announced by president biden will be

essential for ukraine. and i understand that the americans made such a decision, but it cannot end there, since president zelensky expects more and is right in these expectations. must install their anti-aircraft and anti-missile systems defense, also those with such advanced systems. i mean our nato allies. from the west, well, we know that there is, for example, spain, there are many other countries that have patriot systems, we understand that they may not need them as hotly as we do, so we understand that russia has begun to conduct the so-called syrian approach before the war, that means strikes on civilian cities, on civilian objects, killing civilians, this is barbarism, this is an atrocity, but the russians are going for it, and accordingly, the key task is to convince... our western friends and allies to help us strengthen, as you rightly noted, our air defense, well

, accordingly, there are patriots in many countries, but it is difficult to get them, and this is not only a question of money, maybe there are some additional tools besides purely moral ones , well, but the russians are killing kharkiv residents, for example, they hit a supermarket on the weekend, there were people and they dropped a guided aerial bomb, this is barbarism, this is an atrocity, but it happened, this is not a matter of the last days, it is the matter of two whole years that terrible, brutal war that putin started against ukraine. i am aware of it, and so are many of my friends, not all of course, that this is a war to destroy the ukrainian state. this is not just a war for territory, it is a war whose primary goal is to destroy ukrainian statehood, but also to destroy the ukrainian people. and this is not the first time that the russians are trying to... destroy the ukrainian people, because they have already done it in the past, if only remember the holodomor, it was the biggest example of that

in stalin's time. so there are two goals of putin, when it comes to ukraine, and about this, most of us have no doubts. if it is possible to convince others that putin has two more goals left, which directly concern europe and nato, then it may be easier to look for such weapons as you are talking about, after all. putin's next two goals are the destabilization of europe and the paralysis of nato. once again, the destabilization of the european union and the paralysis of the north atlantic alliance. among us, we are aware of this, but again , not all of us. in connection with that, your rhetoric must ensure that the awareness of the four goals that putin has set for himself, once again, the destruction of the ukrainian state, the destabilization of nato and the destabilization of the eu, the paralysis of nato and the destruction of the ukrainian people, which are all goals that threaten not only

the residents of kharkiv, kyiv or lviv, but also threaten residents of madrid, lisbon, london. nights of rome. this is our common threat. and accordingly, what should we do, how should we correctly build a tough response to the russian aggressor. why am i talking about tough? because it has to be on one side a joint decision of nato member countries, well , at least on the european continent, because in a few months the situation in the united states may change. and we don't know what the situation will be like in the united states when donald trump becomes president. but president macron is already preparing for certain scenarios. in lithuania, in latvia, estonia are also preparing for certain additional scenarios, as far as i understand, they are preparing in poland for what might happen, we understand that russia does not need to curtail its aggression, because they are involved in the so-called long war, and a long war means large resources, a large number of losses, and we understand who, in the event of something, will be the first additional victims

of russian aggression, are these the above countries, poland? lithuania, latvia, estonia. we have not realized this since today, that there is a threat from russia, but it is good that nato now has a broad understanding of this. please note that during the summit in madrid, a new strategic concept was adopted, in which it is said, i am speaking from memory, that russia is the immediate and main threat to the entire north atlantic alliance. not only for the eastern flag. poland, lithuania, latvia and estonia, and for the whole of nato. so over the years, this awareness has taken root, and secondly, the decisions taken at the same time, taken by nato, are important, namely increasing the level of cooperation with ukraine to the nato-ukraine joint council, where ukraine has the right to participate in decision-making. this is no longer the nato

ukraine commission, this is the nato council, ukraine. thirdly, the fund that nato created for ukraine and which will be increased within nato by the european union is also important. i repeat everywhere that the eu has experienced a copernican revolution. i deal with the eu from 1994 and never before saw the european union act so quickly and so decisively as in the ukrainian issues. never before. is it possible in matters of the coronavirus? the union was also determined. but now i spoke at the conference here in lviv about the fact that, if eu decisions usually take two months and three months, and sometimes even longer, then regarding the issues of ukraine they are adopted within two weeks, from two to three weeks this is the speed of formula 1 to mercedes. the eu also made a decision financially support the transfer of weapons and military equipment for ukraine. who would have

thought that the eu would be involved in such things, it has never been done before. even you... used a special mechanism for what is the european peace facility, from which money goes to reimburse funds for the transfer of weapons and military equipment to those countries that do this, that is, the eu is directly involved in the supply of weapons and military equipment, that is, ammunition for the ukrainian military who are fighting. and finally the third moment, this is a whole system of sanctions, both eu and american, which worked much faster by agreement, because... the first package of sanctions was launched by the european union on the eve of february 24, that is, before the start of the second russian invasion of ukraine. if you are asking about those sources of military aid, then it is obvious that you need to remember the americans who delayed for a long time. it was a very long pause, but in the end,

the us congress allocated those 60 billion dollars for purely military aid to ukraine, and they are already being implemented. so ukraine did not leave. and on its own, neither by the states, nor by nato, nor by the eu, nor by individual countries, such as poland, which has been a donor of arms and ammunition to ukraine from the first days, and such countries that joined later, such as germany or france. the polish-ukrainian-lithuanian brigade, so we understand that the story of the polish-ukrainian joint brigade is extremely important, it was created and you, one of its co-authors, and accordingly wanted to... ask what it is, where it is, how is she now and are there any chances to finally create a powerful, you know, military subdivision of the triangle of poland, lithuania and ukraine. there was such an evening when i was sitting at... at a table littered with papers and at a certain moment i received information about what was happening with the polish-ukrainian and polish-lithuanian battalions, because such battalions had previously

functioned, especially with regard to the military mission in kosovo or in bosnia and herzegovina. and i thought to myself, why not make a joint polish-ukrainian-lithuanian brigade? why not transfer these three lines of cooperation to the military sphere as well. in connection with that i have certain copyrights. ride on this project, we discussed it with colleagues and presented this idea to the ukrainian side and the lithuanian side, and it was received favorably both in vilnius and in kyiv. at the end of 2009, we signed a memorandum of understanding in this case with the ukrainians and lithuanians, and in a few years the brigade was ready to carry out operations, and it has existed for about 10 years, only at this moment since the start of another war. against ukraine, it gained additional meaning. i can only say that she is involved in support of ukraine with weapons and ammunition and does it effectively. but it is also worth saying that

everything cannot end there, that is, there are further levels of military integration into ukraine. and i believe that such a brigade should be raised to the rank of a division, and that division should consist of brigades, which would be assigned separately. countries, and perhaps in the future it would be possible to create a corps that would include divisions of individual countries. the problem is only with the lithuanian side, due to the fact that it has smaller armed forces, but there are no problems with the ukrainian and polish sides. such a corps or such a division, and then the corps has its own meaning, because it is an excellent transfer of all knowledge about how nato works to the ukrainian and lithuanian military. however, at this moment, after yours. experience from the battlefield, from a real war, because it is a terrible but real war, transfer is possible in the other direction as well. now we in nato can learn a lot from you. my conclusion is as follows:

until ukraine formally becomes a member of nato, such communication channels should be created so that nato soldiers learn from ukrainians, and ukrainians from nato soldiers soldiers, and to integrate these armed forces as much as possible. so. an extremely important signal, i heard you, well, we are keeping our fingers crossed so that the division really rises first, and then, perhaps, the corps, but if we talk about such small steps, president macron began to talk about the prospects of foreign instructors on our territory, we understand that these will not be the people who will try to teach ukrainians to shoot, so ukrainians shoot no worse than the french or poles, but it is about the possible maintenance of high-precision objects. these are military airfields, yes, because we are waiting and we are hoping for aviation, f-16, french mirages, that is, there is such a hope,

but this story goes on for quite a long time, and we understand that it is also a question of pilots and a question of air defense systems , which should cover airfields, cover military airfields, because the enemy will, of course, have somewhere to aim first of all, at the locations of aircraft deployments. there are several coalitions that should work better, or one of them is the aviation coalition. let's list for sequences: there is an armed coalition, a coalition on ammunition issues, a czech initiative, there is a coalition, which we have already mentioned, of anti-aircraft and anti-missile systems, that is, an anti-missile coalition. poland occupies a leading position in the armored coalition and has transferred a lot of armored vehicles and troop transporters to ukraine. the czechs are at the forefront of the munitions coalition, i hope that the first batch of munitions collected in that czech initiative will arrive as soon as possible, i mean july

this year, there is also an aviation coalition, the launch of which is the most difficult, because the training of ukrainian pilots on the f-16 took some time, even longer. but now, as far as i know, those planes are already being transferred to ukraine and elsewhere. that in the near future this aviation coalition will really support your air power, because the skies over ukraine must be better protected. yes, i completely agree, but if we speak tentatively in terms of terms, that is, you feel that in the next couple of months our skies will be covered by f-16s or mirages or some other additional aircraft. i'm on it i hope, since the simple one that was in the supply from. of military weapons, maybe not easy, but a significant reduction in the number of equipment and ammunition, especially artillery ammunition, caliber 152 and 155

mm, it was... a big problem for ukrainian soldiers, and thank god they managed to hold the front. the proportions of 1:10, which were very recently, if we are talking about the number of artillery shots from the ukrainian side and from the side of the russian aggressor, this is a terrible disproportion, but this disparity must change and the artillery the coalition also needs to work quickly, and here every day counts. as you say that the second half of the year is key, i will say that... the first half was also, it's just a pity that during that period the supply of equipment and weapons, as well as ammunition to ukraine decreased, and this was an immediate threat, that the aggressor will succeed in breaking through the front line, and neither ukraine nor europe can afford this. well, but we understand that war is not only artillery, not only aviation, not only tanks, it is also personnel and mobilization resources, and

we understand that the russians... have more mobilization resources than in ukraine, so they are also starting to look for people all over the world, creating some additional units of mercenaries, so on the other hand , we understand that there is a certain initiative of president macron, he voiced, i understand, president macron has put a lot of european politicians in a not very comfortable position, who now have to respond to what president macron has said, but i would like to ask you how you see the prospects for what could be for... troops, ground the troops of those or others countries of the european union, if the situation were to become critical for us, let's hope that this will not happen, well, but president macron has said his word, everyone must somehow react to it. there is such a concept as strategic uncertainty, and we should use this concept for a long time, that is , to drive the kremlin bandits into strategic uncertainty, into strategic ambiguity and... i

think that the initiative of president macron in this regard makes such sense that the russians do not think to themselves , and europe does not envisage more military support? this is how i understand it, as well as the minister of foreign affairs, radosław sikorski in poland, this is how i understand president macron's initiative. and in principle, such a comment is enough. when we talk about the european union and ukraine, we understand that we are entering the so-called negotiation process. yes, the negotiations are not only about the criteria of democracy, the copenhagen negotiations are also about money, about quotas, and we understand, yes, that we had a history with ukrainian crops, the european union and part polish protesters who blocked the roads, yes, we understand that the situation may not have become easier, although it is possible that some additional mechanisms were involved to regulate this, and we understand that bargaining for money

is a holy matter, not even... the best neighbors, the way this whole thing will look, because there is the law of the european union, the legislation of the european union, and there is the legislation of individual national states, in particular poland, hungary and so on, i do not want to compare poland with hungary, but we understand, so in orban has his own vision, poland has his own vision, spain has his own, well, in italy there may be another separate story. we have our negotiating experience, and i must say that... faster, you are faster than poland, because it took us four years to prepare for the start of negotiations on eu accession. the application was submitted in 1994, and the negotiations began in 1998, you are twice as fast, and in this sense , ukraine is formula 1, and we are just mercedes. because it took you two years. from

2022 to... now the strategic decision has been made, it is now about its implementation content probably, in the last days of june, that is , in a few days, a decision will be made on the practical start of negotiations, that is, the eu will form a negotiating mandate, and the so-called intergovernmental conference will be convened. this ensures that negotiations will begin. from the very beginning, poland has sincerely supported ukraine's accession to the eu and will continue to do so. always, because you are the most important partner for us on the eastern side of the border. because of this, we advocated for the negotiations to begin sooner and we advocate for those negotiations to move quickly forward. so that there are no downtimes, so that there are no inhibitions, so that they move forward, this is firstly, secondly, of course, there are such areas in which the eu, on the one hand, and ukraine.