then why do we need other guarantees? therefore, there is no need to talk about guarantees, these are some kind of security agreements that will strengthen our ability to deter aggression during the period when we are outside the borders of nato. but here the question arises already at the end of our conversation, how much, in principle, this support can be stable against the background of all these disturbances that are taking place in... the west, you saw during the last meeting of the group of seven, everyone said that in the prime minister minister sonak is leaving, president biden is fighting for the presidency, president macron has problems in connection with the parliamentary elections, federal chancellor scholz has problems in connection with the european elections, canada's prime minister trudeau has a low rating, japan's prime minister kisseda has a low rating, i moved six , only the prime minister of italy, melanie, remains, and more or less.

this is a really serious question, i personally, well, i thought about it myself, especially when even today there are rumors about the appearance of this nigel on the political scene again in connection with the elections in great britain farage, a well-known eurosceptic, far-right figure, is once again predicted to win the parliamentary elections in france by the far-right, who, you know, gravitate to the position. of the russian federation in some issues, in particular, regarding ukraine and the war. so, really the political landscape of europe, if you add to that the situation in america, it can really change. here, the only thing we can hope for is still such, you know, durability or constancy of foreign policy, and it is very rare in western democracies, despite the fact that whoever wins there in one or another election, in general. the strategic course

is foreign policy, it remains unchanged, and this, i think, will take place both in europe and in the united states of america, if other political forces come to power than those that occupy their offices there today. thank you yes, volodymyr khandogiy, president of the ukrainian foreign policy association, ambassador to great britain in 2010. in the 15th year, was on the live broadcast of the saturday political club, we continue, and now we should be in touch with ihor semivolos, director, director of the center for middle eastern studies, so now we will see mr. igor, but we will talk with him about that, congratulations, mr. igor, congratulations, congratulations, good evening, let 's start with these visits. in the sensational, this is

the truth of putin's visits to north korea and vietnam, and by the way, we have to say right away that maybe someone looks at these visas, at this visit of putin to pyongyang as an everyday thing, but we have to say that for the whole during the existence of the democratic people's republic of korea, no soviet leader ever visited it, no one, no stalin, nor khrushchev, nor brezhnev, nor andropovych, chernenko did not visit anything, nor gorbachev, nobody went, putin himself. yeltsin did not visit, putin himself visited once in 2000, 20.4 years ago, this was the only visit, this was the second visit to byenyang, and suddenly there is such friendship, mr. igor, such love, such kisses, that just where there, yes, yes , of course, this, this visit is attracting a lot of attention, and i think that what is this, this is a persistent request, actually... of the koreans, the korean

leader to visit pyongyang, and why me, me it seems that this is to a certain extent the basis of putin himself, he has no other chance than to come if he wants to get weapons and get exactly the kind of support from north korea that he is getting now, and how about me , it was a condition that... was actually formulated, and despite all the festivity of this visit, so to speak, and in the spirit of such marxism-leninism of the best times, by and large, putin made himself very serious with this visit, and the reaction was not long in coming , the reaction of south korea and putin had to this situation even ... to give birth to south

korea in hanoi, so i don't really see this visit as such a huge success, it's more of a reason, and another demonstration. for the fact that you can't do business with putin, since putin has actually violated all those resolutions that moscow voted for in relation to north korea. mr. igor, what real reaction, well at least a backstage one, should be if china has such visits, and we have to understand that there was a visit to both north korea and vietnam, and here... many analysts say that china didn't quite like it, and it actually upsets the balance that was between russia and china itself. what is your position here? you know, i will say right away, i am not

an easterner, i am not a far easterner, and the nuances are hidden for me, so i can only say based on my experience, and it seems to me... that at least putin coordinated sydzenpin's visit and reactions, if anyone thinks that thanks to this visit it is possible to drag china to its side in the spirit of kissinger, then he is wrong, i do not think that it will in any way affect the position beijing, well, you say that putin can coordinate something with xi jinping, well , he clearly could not coordinate a visit to vietnam with xi jinping, the chinese are there. obviously, he cannot be satisfied with such a trip, because he still wants to sell his weapons to vietnam. well, i think the story of '79 has already, as they say, sunk into the past, and it is clear that vietnam is to some extent such an economic, economic

partner of the united states of america, and a large number of enterprises that used to work in china. moves to vietnam moves to india, and the trade turnover of 100 billion between the united states of america and vietnam and everything else, that is, he has money, at least vietnam. what else can putin offer to vietnam besides weapons, there is nothing, well, considering that vietnam is actually armed with soviet weapons, so this segment of weapons, he can really offer him, but this story, well.. . will at least have a long time, that is, it is not known whether this agreement will eventually work or not, since vietnam is also looking closely at the quality of russian weapons and its real use on the battlefield. well, by the way, this

applies to north korean weapons, they definitely cannot boast of quality, we have seen it, when such actions are already absolutely true, absolutely true, and it is very interesting, when , for example, there putin... talks about the fact that they do not supply, korea does not supply weapons, well , in the context of the discussion with seoul, eh, but these are already so obvious things that there is no point in talking about them, it seems to me that the russian propagandists themselves they say that it's just yes, yes and and and simple the russians at the front describe this story with these korean, with north korean shells about how ineffective they are, well , it becomes quite clear that... about putin's visit and in general these contacts between putin and kimchin-in, their main purpose is more precisely, that's all a weapon, at least for putin. could there be such an option that, for example, russia will place certain production facilities

on the territory of north korea in order to, let's say, produce weapons there, use relatively cheap labor force, north korean, yes, and some, by the way. .. for that matter, the russian propagandists there dreamed that north korea would already take and send part of the troops there to ukraine to fight for russia, well, i will not ask about that, because it is so quite, quite such a ridiculous incitement, but still with regard to weapons, with regard to possible production capacities, is such an option possible? well, they supply weapons and maybe they create some joint ventures. it is possible, but i personally do not believe very much in the effectiveness of such cooperation, and the maximum that korea can give is north korea, this is what it produces, in large quantities, and therefore any joint venture there, any

production, new production, it takes a lot of time, even the transfer of technology, well , north korea has... quite a large, quite large line of weapons, starting there from firearms to missiles and nuclear weapons in the rest, well, it makes no sense, to say the least. to start another such cycle, but within the framework of these agreements there may, of course, be similar proposals, i am more than certain that they were sounded, and it is quite important that they want to bring people from znova, vietnamese to their factories, as it was at the end of the soviet union, i remember the vietnamese who worked at the mill, so they put stools in order to get them to the machine, but tell me, mr. yehor, oh... maybe he still has a very limited range of possibilities when we talk about his trips, because he himself went to

pyongyang, to hakhanoy, but for how many months we have been hearing that he has to go to ankara, five, and something he does not go and does not go, well, and tehran, tehran, i think that here they are, they have been talking about a comprehensive a cooperation agreement and essentially a military union of tehran. well, obviously, after the election of a new president, things will move forward, and obviously in august we can see his visit to tehran, but that is if there is no big war in the middle east. well, here in the context of this, in fact we have already approached the elections in iran, it is clear that a small number of candidates were admitted there, if i am not mistaken, six or eight. eight, eight, thank you for clarifying to what extent

this policy of iran can at least be adjusted in relation to russia, at least according to those statements, perhaps, or some actions, of the current candidates and the potential president, as far as i understand, the speaker, yes of the parliament, iran, in relation to russia, can there be any adjustment, or will we anyway. will you continue to watch this rather extensive cooperation? well, i think that after all, most likely, the train will move forward, that is, most likely, the iranian leadership, alikhmenei, is favorable to signing such an agreement, and a lot will depend on him, if we are talking about the future president, then... we remember about the fact that this is the executive power, and we remember that the level of its, let's say,

decision-making independence is quite small, if we talk about the speaker of the parliament, who is considered the most likely, and he is the former mayor of tehran, as a likely candidate for this position, then he is a moderate conservative, that is, he has at least some more rivets in his head, that is, he a... quite possibly will take a more cautious position, and this story is more about the actual war in the middle east, perhaps the direct participation of iran in this war . but, if we are talking about russia, then i think that they are eager to sign such an agreement, and it is unlikely that anything will change here. well, in principle, do you think that iran is now interested in such an alliance with russia, like that alliance that... north korea signed, well, after all , these articles of the agreement between the russian federation

and the dprk, which we see, they duplicate the old soviet-north korean treaty, which was signed, i think, after the korean war, and never really worked and the parties abandoned it, i think in 2006, when it had already expired, well, they just renewed this article, iran's alliance with russia, never in my life has this happened, no, never, never, but it's interesting, it's just... interesting, because this is a lot of people talking about russia playing a new big game, yes in the near east, this is of course an exaggeration, because the british big game , russia is unlikely to pull such a game, but iran - it has always been a place of attraction for russia, well in the end no one changed their wishes to build a port on in the indian ocean, yes that they long for it. and the iranians strive for this, although i agree that

the iranians have quite a few politicians who have a very negative attitude towards russia, towards russian politics, remembering the history of the 19th, 20th, and especially the middle of the 20th century, the attempts of the russians to tear away whole chunks of iranian territory and things like that, however, now... if you look at their strategic culture, they want allies close to their borders, and russia is just a desirable ally for them as of now. but if... we are talking about putin's upcoming meeting with erdogan, as far as i understand, will hold such a meeting in astana in a few weeks, ukraine will be discussed there, of course, but certain financial and economic issues will also be discussed there

. negotiations in general can be included in pro'. putin is now on his agenda, particularly in the context of recent visits and recent statements. well, i think that in pyongyang and in hanoi, putin said quite a lot of things that, in principle should have been, should have been negatively perceived in turkey, and turkey signed the declaration, well, the final, final declaration. peace summit, and turkey declares the territorial integrity of ukraine. based on what putin said, these are hardly topics around which, especially when it concerns ukraine, the parties will meet somewhere in the middle, and although, well, of course, there will be many words, there will be

many speeches, there will be from turkey calls for an end to the war. return to the negotiating table and the like, that's what we heard from erdogan many times. concerning economic aspects, well, there really are nuances here, because turkey, as we know, is seriously dependent on russian money, on russian gas and russian investments, including those big projects that... and there are a lot of problems around this in turkey, and this may become the subject of actual negotiations on the side of angra. but the question here is that the impression is that putin has recently become openly offended by erdogan. you heard all his comments at the st. petersburg international

economic forum, he is, i would say, insulted tones about turkish. he didn't talk before, well, he has lately, i think he's lost his sense of caution, i would say so, that is, he's starting to talk quite a lot, well, such things that would n't have occurred to him a few years ago, uh, and this actually shows a possible understanding of that... or the signals that he gives to his allies that you hold on to me because i'm not going to back down, i'm going to press and i'm going to bend my line, and that's the key, it seems, the key or the key message it sends, everything else - this is an insult and everything else, we have heard this from him more than once, that is, we can

state that putin went to abank to a certain extent, even with... even, relatively speaking, at the expense of certain interests with traditional partners of the russian federation , because we really see that his statements have become significantly radicalized, and they may not be liked not only, relatively speaking, by us there or the civilized world, yes, but also by his closest partners, well , we, in particular, talked about turkey here, but in fact, we can talk about others here middle eastern country, yes, it’s not a good life, everything happens for putin, and it seems to me that the visit to north korea is that watershed, because he has already crossed a certain line, well, relatively speaking, of political decency, and it’s already beyond him there is nowhere

to retreat, he is simply moving now in this, in this direction, but... it is clear that there is nothing good ahead of him, well, it is precisely the reaction of south korea about this that shines, well, it is the direction of self-isolation, because again- still, when he was 24 years ago came to north korea, he was already there as a representative of the civilized world, but you can't agree with the whinnians, but i will agree on what you want from him, remember, from the father of the kimchinin, the kimchinir demanded in principle to agree to the conditions that the united states then put forward. and even talked about it, it just didn't work out for him, by the way, i have to say that he failed in pyongyang then, just like trump later failed in his meetings with kim jong-un, they both somehow believed that... they can these people, this family must be convinced of something, but it was a 24-year-old putin, i would say, pour, pour, this is still such a young wine, and this is now

some, you know, some scumbag, a scumbag came, i would say vinegar, for sure , vinegar, vinegar, no need to talk about nonsense, no need to talk about wine, there is no more wine, there is this, well, because kim chinin looks like a more serious politician than putin in this couple, you understand, well, in principle, he achieved that. what kimchinin wanted , unlike putin, putin came to bow to him, not the other way around. thank you, mr. igor. so, ihor semivolos, director of the middle eastern studies center, was on the live broadcast of saturday's political club on the espresso channel. well, in a few minutes we will move on to communication with vitaly portnikov, we will also talk about these topics, necessarily about others. about everything that happened this week, about... all strategic issues for our country, all this will definitely happen. now a short break, a few minutes, and we will be back, wait. the football format

changes the time of airing. from now on, you can immerse yourself in the atmosphere of football every monday at 22:00. professional analysis of matches, exclusive interviews, goals, goals, emotions. the project is for experienced fans as well as just for... people who appreciate a non-committal view of football, football format every monday at 10:00 pm on the espresso tv channel. we return to the live broadcast, the saturday political club, and our hour of communication with vitaly fortnikov begins. we will definitely, probably, start with the same question, with these visits, briefly. then we will move on to other statements, to other events. mr. vitaly, we have already heard different ones thoughts on putin's visit to north

korea, before the meeting with kimchin. we saw that, in principle, well, this meeting was not as successful as it could have been, or at least that was what putin was thinking, after all, and what do you have for... what is he for, what for he was doing it, what he was going there for, well, my point of view, is to get weapons, that is, if he gets weapons there, he gets them in the quantities in which he needs them, to a certain extent for him in its isolation, this is already, as they say, a big plus, yes, if we are talking about some foreign political activity of russia, here, of course, there is most likely a minus, here is your opinion... what are the positives from this, from this visit, and the second question, which are for putin, and what are the threats does it mean for ukraine? well, i think

that on the issue of obtaining weapons, it is not necessary to make a state visit, because despite the fact that we say that kimchanin wanted to see him there, kimchanin wants to sell these weapons. it is necessary to understand the situation of the north korean economy. the north korean economy as such is not exist. and never existed, because all these people, and kimirsen, and kimchin, ir, and kimchen, in principle, they were always parasitic on china, and they generally tried to always get money from everyone and not promise anything to anyone, ugh, and that's why they were always treated quite cautiously, even with the soviet union, according to the terminology of the international department. of the central committee of the cpsu, they were not even part of the socialist camp, you know that, they were not part of the socialist camp, they were part of the socialist commonwealth, it was such a term for

a country that was neither there nor here, well , yugoslavia was another part of the socialist commonwealth, but it had a completely independent foreign policy course, they were not members of the council of economic mutual assistance, they were observers, such as finland, yugoslavia was in close relations with this council, that is, in fact. were not always very sharp, and the fact that putin has to get so close to him now indicates that he has a serious intention, so the first thing is a weapon, that's how the kimchan is constantly now, it can be seen according to the reports of the central telegraph agency of korea, according to the publications of noton sinmon, he constantly travels to the defense of the enterprise, he watches what is happening there, it is a huge economic chance for him, well, imagine, he is the leader of a country that is 90%... it depends on china, what china wants, it gives, it doesn't want, it doesn't give, it won't give anything at all, there will be hunger, they will eat grass, ugh, here is a situation where it can get its own money for its own products,

russian money. i mean, so he 's going to make this weapon anyway, because it an incredible economic chance for him, he just got lucky with this attack on ukraine, uh, once, but putin doesn’t need that, so why is putin signing this treaty at all and returning this article on mutual defense, in general between the russian federation and the democratic people's republic of korea, the treaty exists, it is valid, it is signed. after 2006, when the soviet-north korean treaty would have ended, why was there no strategic partnership and promises to defend and protect north korea in this treaty, why this article putin needs to tell kimchin that if he has a conflict with south korea, russia will protect him, she will come to his aid, and russia will protect him, well, she can at least use the right of withdrawal in the un security council,

i'm sorry. things, ugh, real possibilities of influence, she can send him the equipment that he does not have, well, shells for shells, but planes, ugh, but high technologies, drones, you see, that’s all, russia really needs utilitarian soviet shells from him , and he needs a lot from russia more, because south korea has a modern army, and if putin assures him of this, then it is important for him, it is no longer a question. in that andriy will protect him from putin, no, or not, the question here is that putin wants to provoke him into a possible war, but look how beautiful the disposition looks, the war in ukraine, the war in the middle east, and they have already started talking less about ukraine, imagine that the war started on the korean peninsula, there will be less talk about the middle east, because there will be american troops directly involved,

this is not a war in the middle east, where the americans are... these are american soldiers in south korea, withdraw them or increase the contingent, what to do? this is an existential challenge for the united states, these are not the wars that are going on now, so they forgot about ukraine even more, right? uhu, well, that is, he goes, he uses two tactics, the tactic of salami in relation to us, and the tactic of small cuts in relation to the west, so that the blood flows out, so to speak, in those stripes. but let's assume that in putin's plans, well, at least they can be plans for such a conflict to take place before the us presidential election. well, we have to try, that is, we understand that this is an ideal option for him. of course, because then biden will almost certainly lose the election. although, as you know, around the american president, who is waging a real war, where

american interests are, the american army is fighting. the nation cannot be united, it is risky, this is not a war in ukraine, where it is about money, and not a war in the middle east, which splits society, on which the americans will split in the korean war peninsula, if a kimchi attacks south korea, well, there will be a consensus here, and a consensus, and not only from the side of society, but from the side of the political elites, we saw in this studio, we sat and saw how there is a certain split between the democrats and if was the president, i tried to negotiate with him, i would have negotiated with him, he wouldn't have arranged such a thing, he didn't arrange it when i was the president, well, by the way, trump, one of the few presidents, who met with kimchinn? i

say, he is one of the few, that is, in essence, trump, why putin, but i think, with of the presidents of the united states, yeah, yeah, i mean, former president jimmy carter met with, one of the most, so basically, well, that's also an indicator, well that's, by the way, a huge mistake was, i think, that that he himself started meeting with this person, who by and large is not the head of the state, but we have that in mind. this is a pushilin or a beekeeper, only of the korean variety, because it is not a real state, it is just an entity in the zone of soviet occupation, just like the german democratic republic, they occupied you are part of the territory of korea, and on this territory they declared their own regime, and by the way, now you understand why they did not go there, putin that...