it is known all this way that russia is going to return to the soviet ideology, the return to the soviet avant-garde imperialist ideology, and in this respect we are returning to what year 59, when the americans support the year 56, when the americans support israel in the soviet crisis, and the soviets, diplomats and troops supported the arabs then, today they support terrorists. terrorist organizations, and look what they support only terrorist organizations, they support iran, they support, they they support hamas, maybe we'll wait until they start supporting, maybe they've already supported, i'm just saying. thank you, thank you, ms. arie. arie zayden, israeli political scientist, lieutenant colonel of the israel defense forces reserve, was on our air, from the middle east we are returning to europe, now until... in the morning maria oleksa,

journalist, editor on french television, we are on air, congratulations, ms. maria, congratulations, well, today we received a message that the rating of french president emmanuel macron, after he announced early elections to the national assembly of france, collapsed sharply, it can be assumed that most people do not understand the logic of the french president's actions at all, absolutely, for three weeks france has been living in a state of alarming chaos, for the second week, excuse me, but this is... an election campaign for the history of of the republic, all parties took this decision of emmanuel macron as a certain shock, surprise, surprise, even the far-right, for whom it is quite beneficial, because they counted on the fact that they still have three years to prepare for the elections scheduled for 2027 , and that's what they actually have only three weeks, and although they are in such a position, they are still privileged after the european elections in view of their flight.

even they find it very difficult to get their team together in each department of france, in each of the 577 districts to present their candidate, the same reaction from the left, the left side, and the same reaction from the associates of macron himself, because he did not warn them, this decision was adopted at a private dinner, together with macron's advisers who are not... politicians, in fact, it's just an inner circle, it's people who are engaged in communication, political technologies, there were six of them and six months ago, at least such a study was conducted, lumond magazine conducted, and determined that yes, it happened about six months ago, and macron decided in a very narrow circle, if there is a failure in the european elections , he dissolves the parliament, and if he expected to be de gaulle in 68, when after... protests

at that time de gaulle managed to mobilize the french around him, then most likely he will become a de gaulle in 97, when the then president dissolved the national assembly, thinking that he would strengthen his position, as a result, he ended up for many years in cohabitation, that is, living together with the socialists, and macron is actually threatened with the same thing now, precisely with the socialists or with the national union, marine le pen, look, the last... the latest opinion polls give 35% to the far-right, i.e. lupin, 28% of the alliance of the alliance of left forces, which despite macron's hopes, or rather, how to say, he did not hope for it at all, he wanted them not to unite, but they did unite united, all the left forces of france, give them 28%, and macron's parties give 22%. that is, the scenario here is either cohabitation with the left, which...

the crown, well, to put it mildly, hates it, or cohabitation with the right forces, which ideologically, as if, well, should have been incompatible with macron, but maybe before that is going on, and there is already a theory floating around that this is a crash test for the far-right, that macron wants to let them into power now, so that by 2027 their ratings will be blown, so that they will not be able to cope with their tasks, well, that is what it is some game the fate of the country, in fact, simply so that in 2027 the far-right will not came to power, let me tell you frankly, the left in the moral state they are in now, with macron, they will not want to rule the country, because the entire campaign and all the previous years of the existence of the left forces were aimed at criticizing macron's policies, how will they go to him in the government, well, i don't see it realistically, it's much more likely that it's co... living with the far-right, although

the far-right is also not very satisfied, jordan bardela is potentially the next prime minister, he is the leader of the party , marine le pen is somewhat honorable president, but she is not... the president of the party, officially, it is already preparing for 2027, and bardela said that if he does not have an absolute majority in the far-right parliaments, he will not go to the position of prime minister, because he also understands , that living with macron is a very risky game, and the country could be locked in decisions, in legislation for months, if not until 2027, and it is not beneficial for anyone, and least of all, it is beneficial for the french, who essentially... can get a completely ungovernable national assembly, but on the other hand, the left wishes not to to allow the ultra-right to power is their main task, in fact they united in this popular front under this slogan, and here suddenly they refuse the coalition with macron, which may be the only chance for

the ultra-right not to form a government. what will it look like? yes, this, this is absolutely true, it will look very strange on their part, and i think there will be, well, there will be treaties, there will be... talks, there will be negotiations, i don't know what concessions macron will have to make in order to they agreed to be in his government, after all macron's policies have shifted so far to the right in recent years, and they are so different from what the left proposes that their coexistence is, well, technically impossible, roughly speaking, the left says, the first thing we will do when we come to power is we cancel the pension reform, macron says only through my dead body, the pension reform is all that i fought for, i spent many years to prepare it, the reform remains, also now there are talks about another reform, which concerns the subsidy of people who are on unemployment benefits, that's what the left is saying, we're canceling this reform, it's bad, macron is defending it with his back in his mouth,

so here it is again a situation of a completely blocked legislature that can't agree on anything, yes i apologize yes yes the ultra-right also want to. for canceling the pension reform? the ultra-right, by the way, also has a very interesting story, they are for, they are against the pension reform, but they are ready to postpone this decision for a while, well, that is, they also leave such, well, let's say space to maneuver in the event of a coalition with macron. the only thing they stated very firmly, but here macro for macron this issue, maybe less principled, is the electricity prices, right now they are... they took the economy seriously and went through some points that will be difficult to realistically implement , but i compared the two programs in this way, and these are exactly the points that are missing from macron’s program, that is, there should not be any very sharp clashes on these issues, here is

also a very interesting question, although, for example, with issues of europe, the far-right are absolutely determined that in the future france should pay much less to the european budget. eh, in general , france has to withdraw from a number of agreements, including electro, everything related to energy, and here, if with macron, they actually have a lot of differences, which is why i say that none of the scenarios at the moment, given the latest polls, it is not optimal for the country to move in any direction or move anywhere. did he really have a chance not to hold these elections? absolutely, no one obliged. he made this decision, the european elections are not a reflection of domestic national politics and he had no legal obligation to hold this vote. in general, european elections are traditionally considered in french society as a reality somewhat disconnected from national politics, and

that is why the turnout is very low, somewhere it seems that 51% of french people only went to the european elections, while the turnout for parliamentary national elections, it is still ... times greater, it can rise to 70% there, there were even such parliamentary elections in 75, so, after all, it is considered that these are two such parallel stories, and no one forced him to do so, which is why this decision surprised everyone so much. on the other hand, everyone understands that macron has nothing to lose, if he waits for 2027, he cannot run for president in any case, but if we talk about his party, yes, this is his political legacy. by 2027, nothing may be left of this party, as well as at some point after during hollande's presidency, there was almost nothing left of the socialists, and they gathered themselves piece by piece for years, until 2024, when now the socialists led by

glucksman at least resemble something, and macron does not want the fate of hollande, he does not want for his party to disappear as if it had never existed, as it did. in 2017 with the socialists, by the way, let me remind you that macron himself was in the socialist party and was, well , opposed to hollande, and it was hollande who first brought him to power as a minister, and then supported him. his, well, political career. thank you, mrs. maria. maria oleksa, journalist, editor at state television. in france. thank you for being on our air. we are going to break for a few minutes, but please stay with us. after this pause, a dialogue with the writer oksana zabushka. she will be in our studio in just a few minutes. attention, total sale, kors garden trimmers under unpack tv with a discount of only

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and savings. vasyl winter's big broadcast. two hours of airtime, 2 hours of your time. two hours to learn about the war and how the world lives. two hours to keep up with... economic news and sports news. two hours in the company of favorite presenters, presenters who have become familiar to many, as well as distinguished guests of the studio: events of the day in two hours, vasyl zima's big broadcast, a project for smart and caring people. espresso in the evening. see this week in the collaborators program. who takes ukrainian children to russian regions. we feel the support of all regions of the russian federation. but as the progenitor develops russian culture into a genetic one, it allows the integration of children's and

youth musical groups. on tuesday, june 25, at 5:45 p.m., watch the collaborators program with olena kononenko on the espresso tv channel. we continue. the politclub program on the espresso tv channel with you vitali tailor's guest in the studio, oksana zabushka, writer, poet, essayist, teacher and activist, not a teacher, that's how i wrote it, that's all, because i'll delete it, after the broadcast, at least. so, thank you, ms. oksano, for coming to this studio. i would like, by the way, to talk about such an urgent trend of recent times, which, frankly, i did not think to meet so quickly. uh, it's again, here, i would say, where did a large number of people appear again, at least in the information

space, who started, as if there was no this war, a big, as if there was nothing what we heard from putin, from russian propagandists, journalists, cultural figures, who there adhere to pro-imperial positions, again began to talk about this image of a second ukraine, here is a russian-language one that develops in... from the ukrainian language, that we need this ukraine to understand, to respect, and here we live again in this world of this, i would say, competition between the existing and the non-existent. you live because you monitor it specifically, well, but there are people who see it, read it, get disoriented, obviously there is something behind it, let's say a certain reality, that is, there are some, some part of people for whom, let's say, well, how to say, let's sum it up like this, i've said this many times in various interviews, i always say that the russian-speaking of ukrainians is a consequence

of transgenerational trauma, and this transgenerational trauma... it is necessary, let's say so, not to respect, but to treat it with the patience and understanding of a psychotherapist, well, at least, this is the duty of people who speak publicly, yes, so, so, so , there is obviously, so to speak, a certain contingent of those who, well, as if they defend russian as their native language, precisely, precisely as a result of this transgenerational trauma, but what... you describe that again, they say, means that it is a question of returning to this very ideology of the 14th year, to as if it means the second ukraine and so on, this is rather a signal to me that things in russia at the front are very bad, just as in

russia things at the front are very bad, which is confirmed by putin's visit. to north korea and many other news, so i somehow calmed down a few days ago, this news from the finnish intelligence that 80% of the troops and equipment from the russian-finnish border was taken and transferred to ukraine, which already means that there is a daily grind, yes, that is, bad things, so it is clear that bad things, just bad things, accordingly, it begins... blowing smoke, bluffing, it starts where they know how and where they are good, where they have the resources in their hands to work with it, that is, for example, last month i was traveling by train from lutsk to kyiv and heard these callers for the first time, you know,

the technology is still old gebeshna from the soviet... times, only in soviet times they were talking loudly in the queues in support of the government party, but here it is clear that the text of the kobita spoke about the need for reconciliation, appeasement and giving over, that is, this same donbas and in general giving everything to them, so that only war would not was and stubbornly repeated that this was her personal opinion, well, that is, it was heard that she was chasing... the girl and her, well, this is also a symptom for me, you know, well, so what, the work went in this direction, and these waves are them, they are rocking them time and time again, these are the same ones, so information spillovers, these are some of these trends, these are all the scenarios that, in principle, have not

changed all these 10 years, that is 10-20, and in fact by and large. the information war after 2004, yes, it started in such a full measure, so what, so what i would, i would not be particularly concerned about it, as it means some kind of new, new dangerous reality, and well, there is such a trend, it means well, that is, i mean people who they speak russian on the streets because there are people for whom russian is the language of everyday life attention is paid exclusively to people who are so... impressions are afraid to lose their position, because their whole position in culture is there, someone proclaims himself a philosopher, someone else, eh, it is based on the fact that they are trying to take place in this strange, i would say to the world, because russia is already foreign to them, they already believe that they cannot be a part

of the russian microcosm, the ukrainian language and culture still evokes in them, they cannot, i apologize there. well, in ukrainian, i would say culture, they can't either to happen, what is happening in ukrainian civilization, because they simply treat it with contempt, this does not mean that people do not know the ukrainian language, they can know, they have this small island of her life, which means russian-speaking ukraine, and it must be preserved for them, you see, not for the people on the street, for them, for all these respectable people.

i know, i know, because a lot of people told me about it, it is in the spirit of abram, abram was called in half, yes, well, you told me, so you also made some accents, like an insider, whom the public did not notice and did not notice, so... after your accents, by the way, i forgave you, so to speak, for going there, because, remember, the conversation started with not the reader, in general, i apologize, to talk to russians, asking about ukrainian culture, as they say, i would be bored, but i understand that, well, it is obviously somewhere in the subject of your interest, both professional and maybe personal , well , your... res of journalist vitaly portnikov, after all, there is a target audience somewhere postrsru with a fairly wide range, and here

somehow volens nolens, you used a good word island, but the sea went away, the sticks remained, well , that's what i'm talking about. you know, again , the audience, when the post-soviet audience is so wide, it is not the audience of russian- speaking ukrainians, you see, i do not operate on this at all, because i believe that ukrainians can understand me in ukrainian, any who speak russian, who speak ukrainian , no, it’s faster here, even, it’s faster here, it’s even more interesting to talk about, this is your parish, here we are, i say, why are we turning around to the same conversation that with this... we should engage in the de-russification of soviet jewry in the open space and to israel, and it seems to me that it has already been further russified at least in the former

soviet union, well, but no, well, that means, as i understand it , all this banter convened by feigin, when he said that we are all jews here, and latinina protested that she was not, this is something that just falls somewhere under this very ... the very paradigm of the islander, and here i involuntarily remember " forgive the collapse of the previous russian empire, me i remember jabotinsky's excellent journalism." you remember, well, it's just a doll, what he writes about, warning, addressing the jewish audience, actually, the jewry of the russian empire, and warning against assimilationism and warning, there are very comical things there. .. episodes that there was the anniversary of komiserzhevskaya in odessa, in the 18th year, where there was not a single russian, and where only the jews themselves stood up, stood up for this very russian culture, as he

says, the russian of moses’ law, and says that this terribly comical, so this situation when, when they insist on, and on the other hand, what was heartwarming for them to learn now, instead of komisarzhevska , switch to zankovetska and saksan. no, they could still switch to eurydice, which bosnskyi called for, he was a zionist, absolutely rightly so, it was his, it was his, it was his argumentation, why jews should, should stick to their own and not change, i’m sorry, so , each time an identity with a change of empire or a change of a new master in the house, as he, as he said, so here and there are these islets, so... as you say, this russian-speaking, that is , there are quite a few people whose only identity is their identity, who have no other, so,

let's put it this way, they had no other identity, and they cannot switch to hebrew, so it is lost, even when they are jewish, apart from the soviet, soviet, russian-speaking, identity. of a soviet intellectual, who apparently has no ethnic roots, what are russian ethnic roots, yes, well, it is possible, it is possible to create russian culture and perfectly create russian culture without any russian of ethnic ethnic roots, because the russian ethnos is generally quite a phantom entity, in fact, that's why, but ukrainians and ukrainians are all right, yes. with the jews too, you see, it's all very interesting, what we, what we talked about

i said, return it. to me, my ukrainian jews, so the process just started , it started, i would say sooner after or even after the 14th year actively, and especially i would said after the 22nd, because after the 14th it obviously started there in the center, but it always coincides, by the way, i have been talking about this since the 90s with ukrainian nation-building processes, if ukrainian nation-building processes are taking place, if ukrainians do not hold on to sovietism, representatives of any others stop holding on to it... there is no need to start, the ukrainians have already started and are fighting back quite well, you know, for the 11th year already they have been fighting back quite well, not

in words, but in action with weapons. answering that the question that zahubatynskyi put to struve, by the way, in this very publication a hundred years ago, mr. struve said, the point is, the point is not that there should be a single language for a single nation, the point is whether ukrainians want to be with you as a single nation, so far they give a negative answer to this question, he wrote back in the 16th or 14th years ago, and now the next iteration of this empire must also collapse and, accordingly, certain mechanisms, of course, certain patterns of mass

behavior, well, it’s clear . they repeat themselves, well of course, they are repeated, here are your islands, about which you are talking, this is exactly the comedy club, the russian club kamiserzhevskaya in the city of odessa, you understand, where the sea is already raging around, the ukrainian revolution is already already, and odessa is already talking around ukrainian, that today she needs to be reminded that, inside is an island, the same surgical club in which, in which they gathered themselves, which means, as he says, which they learned from the previous decades of existence of the russian empire, to be russian there, and now they don't know what to do, because what? there is no return, there is no return to the shtetl, they are assimilated, and where do they go now, what should they go to, where is their identity, you say, these people, well, our contemporaries, so they will not

go to ukraine. culture, because they despise it, they don't despise it, they don't know it, the contempt they inherited, they have this imperial instruction, the contempt they can have, that there is this yaristovych, who said that a small culture , well, here are these people who are preachers of this idea, they are ethnic ukrainians, no nuristovych ethnic ukrainians, we can name a few more surnames, we will find a lot of them, but it is not about ethnicity, and that is. although this nationality is a choice, it has its own, it is understood that there are its own, so, let's say, there are some advantages in something, there are advantages in something , disadvantages in the presence of a good ethnic bookmark that tells you something intuitively, so that is unstudied, but without a choice you

will still do nothing, but without a choice. all the same, well, somehow this so-called popular element can wake up when it feels threatened, and it is in us, until things, note that it also wakes up with ukrainians, so everything is fine with ukrainians, so ukrainians can spontaneously go to the maidans, then, when they hear the danger to national existence, this instinct is triggered, and this instinct has not been suppressed, you understand, no. 100 years of soviet rule, nor 200 years of russification, did not overshadow it, and this in itself is, you know, a miracle and a phenomenon that is worth all the anthropological studies in the world, well , at least it never ceases to amaze me as a ukrainian, i just i just need more it seems that by and large there is a huge…